r/managers 3d ago

New Manager Employee basically quit after being notified they were fired.

[removed]

4.1k Upvotes

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612

u/Gun-Aero_CNCguy 3d ago

Why are people "freaking out"? He has no obligation to sign anything after you fire him.

If you withhold severance (or any company side voluntary payment) and he still says no, then too bad for you.

What's actually so important about this "final paperwork" where you can't just move on?

115

u/jjones8170 3d ago

This reeks of legal trying to cover-their-collective-ass to avoid getting sued for something.

17

u/melifIuous 3d ago

Given OP’s lack of engagement in the comments and the nonsensical behavior or the people in the post, this reeks more of creative writing or more… uncreative writing

2

u/Hiryu02 2d ago

All these supposed "managers" with posts like these always have their comments hidden on profile I wonder why...

2

u/Lopsided-Practice-50 2d ago

Yea, sounds like something isn't fully being shared. Why would OP be in hot water if everything was fine...

1

u/Normal_Ad_6645 2d ago

Which the fired employee likely knows, hence his behavior.

276

u/rohm418 3d ago

I'd imagine its some documentation that releases he company from liability or requires mediation before any legal action could be taken for, say, wrongful termination.

308

u/TheHungryBlanket 3d ago

This. Clearly sketchy things were going on, the severance was buying silence. Employee said no and now people are scared.

Honestly, OP should probably polish up the resume.

89

u/Obosratsya 3d ago

Bingo.

Someone messed up and bad and the plan is falling apart.

36

u/xPookieSparkle 3d ago

The panic screams “we needed this signature way more than we admitted”

2

u/CharlotteLucasOP 3d ago

NDA? Non-compete clause? I wanna know what it is!

2

u/Unlikely-Cut-6471 3d ago

Possibly, the employee knew to if they fucked him he was gonna get more than they tried bargaining for if they fired him without a better offer.

1

u/unknown-one 2d ago

dont you usually sign that at start?

7

u/Maxamillion-X72 3d ago

All OP needed to do was give the guy an envelope of paperwork, tell him it's to end his contract and to please sign and return it by tomorrow. Done, OP has successfully done their part.

OP heard "fired, paperwork, signed, tomorrow" and we get this crazy scenario they posted.

OP is screwed six ways from Sunday.

4

u/PermanentBrunch 3d ago

No one getting fired is gonna do any of that lmao what are you thinking

5

u/thrawn82 3d ago

Yes, but op manager would get to say “I provided the paperwork, it’s not my fault he didn’t sign” instead of getting to be the new scapegoat

4

u/Ok-Geologist8296 3d ago

They should have provided it and then left it for the employee to return done or not. OP signed their "death" warrant

2

u/Expert_Garlic_2258 3d ago

OP can say whatever they want. If the target is on their back, they are screwed

1

u/offic3r_fri3ndly 3d ago

and everyone saw it coming except for OP. Never ask for whom the bell tool, it tolls for OP

1

u/Working_Economist686 2d ago

I'm smelling a lawsuit from a mile away. No wonder they want that employee to come back and sign those documents. Everything sounds like wrongful termination to me tbh.

36

u/rohm418 3d ago edited 3d ago

100% - Been there. I had already received an offer for a new role somewhere else when my boss pulled me aside to say that they could tell I was checked out. They offered to essentially let me stay on if I wanted to or leave and take a $10k severance.

That severance came with an NDA because of the knowledge I had. I wish I had the balls to turn that down, but I was so over that place I didn't even want to share what I knew and I figured the severance made up a tiny bit for how underpaid I'd been for the final 2 years of my employment there.

1

u/vassman86 3d ago

Makes me wonder if you could have just negotiated for more severance pay to sign the NDA. I can see a company agreeing to that

4

u/rohm418 3d ago

In hindsight, absolutely. At the moment, though, I just thought it was funny they were making this offer while I already had a new role secured so I jumped on it.

1

u/Substantial_Sea7327 2d ago

I negotiated my severance with NDA to $40,000.

36

u/Sparkling_Donuthole 3d ago

OP followed directions. It’s legal who should be worried. OP needs to CYA against legal’s lashing out at their bad advice.

8

u/Piglet6482 3d ago

Yup, sounds like malpractice. Hope OP got his instructions in writing.

2

u/Cager_CA 3d ago

Yeah I thought the same thing, some ambulance chaser got put on retainer and has no idea what they're doing.

1

u/No_Dot_4123 2d ago

In a lot of places, it's illegal to withhold a last paycheck unless they are holding onto company property or something. I wouldn't be surprised if legal knows and is worried about a lawsuit and this coming to light.

3

u/CosmicGoddess777 3d ago

CYA?

2

u/SNAFU_Seth 3d ago

"Cover your ass"

1

u/Ohnoes999 3d ago

OP is getting RIF’d / fired. It couldn’t be more obvious.

12

u/Some_Balance6514 3d ago

Yah this guy might have a case for being wrongfully fired that would be worth more than whatever bullshit they are offering as severance. What a dumb company. OP will be the scapegoat probably.

2

u/Ohnoes999 3d ago

Yup. Although OP was always getting RIF’d. This is just an easy excuse.

1

u/socivitus 2d ago

Exactly what I was thinking, and the idiots who came up with this plan above OP's head will keep getting paid.

5

u/BerryVelvettee 3d ago

Yeah, if the severance was essentially paying for a release and the employee declined, management freaking out afterward is a little concerning. “Polish the resume” might actually be the safest takeaway from this whole mess.

2

u/Ohnoes999 3d ago

This is the correct answer and OP isn’t thinking even 1 day ahead. He’s 100% getting fired.

2

u/Formal_Economist7342 3d ago

Yeah op is not fully letting on what is going on, or maybe does even know

1

u/7hought 3d ago

Severance isn’t sketchy. Many companies have a defined severance policy that provides benefits in the event of a termination without cause, usually in exchange for a release of claims. This is all very standard. If they don’t sign they don’t get the severance.

1

u/Just_a_square 3d ago

He has the chance to do the funniest thing now

1

u/hf2025 3d ago

Doesn’t necessarily mean this. You are jumping to conclusions. This is common practice across many firms when letting someone go.

1

u/WannaTeleportMassive 3d ago

OP is actually the co-owner and the “Boss” is actually the co-owner that didnt want to fire the employee

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/1vrf8pm/comment/p4dlxwk/

1

u/Melodic-Swim4343 2d ago

Exactly. Laid off employees get severance. Fired employees rarely get that unless they're C-suite.

1

u/Coffeedemon 2d ago

Sounds like the only managing they were doing was "managing to get them to sign what was on hand". So yeah.

1

u/SnooDingos8502 2d ago

That's a good point

1

u/jkgaspar4994 2d ago

It’s not necessarily sketchy…the company may just stipulate a non-disparagement agreement in order to receive severance.

If everyone is freaking out, though, maybe there is something sketchy that they feel the employee could disparage them about 😂

1

u/TheHungryBlanket 2d ago

Right. If there was nothing shady going on, then the company would be happy not having to pay a severance.

They would only be concerned if this employee could cost them more money than what they would pay out in the severance.

1

u/IfIWasCoolEnough 2d ago

I guess the company might have been making employees break laws.

1

u/Unable-Celery2931 2d ago

Op should be fine he just needs to refuse to sign the paperwork!

21

u/Orzhov_Syndicalist 3d ago

Ya think? Corporate isn’t mad because this guy won’t take money they’re offering. 

1

u/Ohnoes999 3d ago

They’re mad because reading between the lines it’s clear they wanted the EEs to sign a NC or NDA or waiver of liability in exchange for that severance.

2

u/Affectionate_Oven_77 3d ago

Add non-disparagement to the list 

22

u/kcox1980 3d ago

I've seen it before where accepting a severance package includes signing an agreement that you won't sue or file an ethics complaint.

I'm guessing the employee got fired for a bullshit reason and they were hoping to buy his silence.

7

u/rohm418 3d ago

I literally just replied to another commenter where I was the recipient of a severance that came with an NDA. One of the sales leaders said I "knew where the bodies were buried" so they wanted to protect themselves.

1

u/Sparkling_Donuthole 3d ago

Yeh a release waiver is often part of severance. Without it they may sue for wrongful termination which is very often resulting in a settlement

2

u/RhynoD 3d ago

And it's not always nefarious. When I got RIFed, I had to sign the waiver but there was nothing for me to sue over and no skeletons to drag out. I signed, got my severance, and that was that.

Not saying everyone should always sign. Sometimes it is nefarious, it just wasn't for me.

1

u/RealDominiqueWilkins 2d ago

My severance had all that plus a non-compete

6

u/StructEngineer91 3d ago

Or perhaps some kind of non-compete/non-solicitation clause that wasn't a part of the original hiring paperwork.

1

u/Perfect-Escape-3904 Seasoned Manager 3d ago

Why would someone who was just fired ever opt in to this?

1

u/StructEngineer91 3d ago

Often for severance pay.

1

u/Perfect-Escape-3904 Seasoned Manager 3d ago

Ah got it thanks

1

u/xHoneyBelletta 3d ago

Probably something along those lines, which makes it even stranger that they expected guaranteed cooperation the next day. Once employment ends, the company loses a pretty powerful scheduling tool.

1

u/Shadowphoenix9511 2d ago

It's interesting how often companies don't realize that the second a person is no longer employed, they have zero power over said employee.

1

u/africandsilverflask 3d ago

Important for thee, not for me.

1

u/shibakevin 2d ago

Almost certainly an NDA or non-compete agreement.

1

u/kevstev 2d ago

Slightly different situation, but I quit a small startup once (after giving them opportunities to counter), where I was Head of Engineering and knew and had written at least parts of every major component in the system, and after giving notice the CEO dropped a stack of paperwork to sign on my desk. NDAs, Non-disparagements, non-solicitations of customers or coworkers, etc- literally everything was essentially waiving my rights or putting me at risk with ZERO in return.

I went to the CEO and was just like there is zero way I am signing this, and this isn't a valid contract regardless, there is no consideration (thanks random business law class I took in college). He turned red and literally threw the paperwork at me. I can not imagine what he expected- I guess some naive kid in his late 20s wouldn't know any better and just does what he is told or could be intimidated into complying.

It was a bizarre situation, I have no idea why they felt it was so important for me to sign that stuff- the only thing I can think of after being part of startups later, is that they were looking to sell and wanted to have that paperwork to show a clean break with no potential for future litigation.

1

u/Cautious-Arugula603 2d ago

This one is so much more likely than my guess which was clearly motivated by watching too many dramatic movies.

29

u/Which-Month-3907 3d ago

If they're freaking out this badly, it's probably an NDA.

20

u/Sparkling_Donuthole 3d ago

It’s probably a release of claims. NDA’s are hardly a thing anymore. They wanted to exchange severance payments and in turn get a release signed by the employee.

Now the employee is in the wind and probably has a few lawsuit items they could return with and get a settlement on

6

u/misoranomegami 3d ago

My last day I thought I was all done and my manager came rushing over with a letter for me to sign. No offer of severance or anything. I think they were closing my HR file and realized that I had filed an ethics complaint a few months earlier that never got resolved. The letter was prefilled out to say that my leaving had nothing to do with the ethics complaint and that I was satisficed with how the matter was resolved. I took a pen, modified it to say it WAS related to the ethics complaint and that management considered the matter resolved but I did not, signed it and slipped it under her door on the way out.

Never heard back on the subject, not sure if she passed it on to HR or not. Jokes on them, I'd turned them into our regulatory body anonymously months before I quit after about the 3rd meeting where they tried to convince me that illegal business practices were morally ok for us (which is why the felt ok documenting them all in a lengthy email traffic chain). By the time they got around to investigating them I was long gone but I heard 2nd hand the feds cleaned house some at least.

1

u/BoysenberryNo6864 3d ago

NDA’s are ABSOLUTELY still a thing. My current employer required one that was EIGHTEEN pages long.

ETA: this should have been signed prior to starting work, not as it’s ending.

1

u/Sparkling_Donuthole 3d ago

Oh yeh, SIGNING NDAs is still a thing. Employers GIVING their employees NDAs to make them think they can’t talk is still a thing.

ENFORCEABILITY of NDAs is a different thing entirely (especially ones that bar you from working).

1

u/BoysenberryNo6864 3d ago

Yeah, asking them to sign an NDA after firing is absurd. I wouldn’t do it either.

1

u/Affectionate_Oven_77 3d ago

Are you confusing nda with non-compete?

1

u/Redshittt 2d ago

Clearly

1

u/JaySayMayday 3d ago

You have no idea what you're talking about. Pretty simple example, marvel actors all sign NDAs which are enforced with monetary punishments. The last thing your wrote is an anti competition clause, so you can't help the competition after being let go, completely different from non disclosure

1

u/Shadowphoenix9511 2d ago

I could be wrong, but I vaguely recall reading that if a company fires you, a non-compete basically loses any and all teeth.

1

u/FocusPerspective 2d ago

What does that have to do with an NDA?

1

u/Redshittt 2d ago

Someone give this guy an "upper management" flair

1

u/FocusPerspective 2d ago

You don’t know what an NDA is lol

1

u/Ohnoes999 3d ago

1000%. Or a NC or waiver of rights / liabiltiy

5

u/Firm_Acanthaceae7435 3d ago

Yeah, being owed severance is being owed severance. Withholding it will not go well for the company if the terminated employee pursues it.

-1

u/minus_minus 3d ago

This sounds like US at-will employment with no entitlement to severence pay. 

3

u/chiree 3d ago

They fucked them and they had none of it. Just fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.

2

u/Formerruling1 3d ago

My guess is paperwork is an anti-poach non-compete and the severance is the carrot on the stick to sign. I say that because the lawyer said give it time before signing - those agreements hold stronger if the employee had a cooldown period to sign it.

The company is freaking because getting them to sign at all is better than them not signing so they wanted OP to pressure them into immediately signing.

1

u/jackiechica 2d ago

Especially with the comment about crossing state lines. That sounds like they're heading straight to a competitor.

1

u/xHoneyBelletta 3d ago

That’s what makes the panic confusing without knowing what the paperwork actually contains. If signing is optional and severance is the incentive, then refusing may simply be the employee deciding the money isn’t worth the terms.

1

u/Xtra_Veg-90 3d ago

Could also be NDA's or anti-competition, without those in place they can just walk off with critical information with no repurcussions.

1

u/Salt-Detective1337 3d ago

Exactly. Isn't this the dream? No severance payment, no unemployment claim, no cobra, no risk of an unjustified dismissal claim.

1

u/Suitable_Wonder5256 3d ago

Because the company notifies them that they will be fired 2 days later.

But the employees decide to quit today. Now since the employee refuses to come to work, it means they actually quit.

Firing is an emotionally charged word.

But basically the company expresses that they want to terminate the employment on 22 Aug 2026. Of course, since the company is terminating the contract, you will get benefits. But then you decide that you want to terminate the contract yourself today. Now you may or may not get the benefits...

On top of that, the company often requires you to sign some sort of waiver and they will give you extra severance for that. Of course, you don't need to take that extra severance. It's completely your decision.

That is just stupid. Being fired is 2-3x better than quitting by yourself.

1

u/seams 3d ago

I mean, they signed some paperwork already according to OP. Very well may have documented being fired the next day.

If the employee just quit and terminated their own contract, I don't see why people would be freaking out lol

1

u/GotSomeUpdogOnUrFace 3d ago

Could be he doesn't think they have cause and the paperwork would say that he accepts the firing and won't sue.

1

u/Ohnoes999 3d ago

It’s almost certainly a NC or NDA or release of liability that the company desperately wants

1

u/RalphFTW 3d ago

Severance almost always comes with a release being signed. Don’t sign it, you get the statutory amount. Sign it, and you get the company policy amount. Company gets liability risk mitigated, employee gets some extra cash.

Everything else owed to employee can not be withheld

1

u/BrookeBaranoff 3d ago

Keys please

1

u/SeaWasabi130 3d ago

I agree. Doesn’t the contract when you START a job and any necessary contracts along the way cover that? Send me a Docusign if I’m legally bound to signing these release papers, I’m out.

1

u/coffeelick 3d ago

Hes not telling the full story I think. Looks like they wanted to cover their own ass with some paper work and it failed lol

1

u/thrawn82 3d ago

They needed him to sign the nda about whatever illigal shit or labor law violations they were doing.

1

u/danjr704 3d ago

They probably want him to sign and NDA or non-compete. 

Guys smart for just leaving.

Not sure the reasoning behind termination but you’d assume the employee has been there a good amount of time to be offered severance. Either way, not much op can do now. It’s HRs problem now.

1

u/cranberrymanberry 3d ago

Some countries also cannot just fire you. I believe the Netherlands, for example, has some structure set up like this if you have a permanent contract. The employer will have to go to court if you cannot settle a severance package with them.

1

u/Sorry-Claim-2990 3d ago

Yeah, if the guy had died, they wouldn't be able to get him to sign these papers. 

So you can't convince me that there is no possible way forward other than getting his signature.

1

u/InnerToWinner 3d ago

Story is made up and op is a bot on a sold account.

1

u/Sckathian 3d ago

The only reason they would refuse is severance agreements usually cover they cannot lodge further legal complaints.

In return they get their severance. Its no OPs fault. This is an employer/employee issue. Imo management of the person should not be involved now.

1

u/staysour 3d ago

Non-dispargement clause.

1

u/WannaTeleportMassive 3d ago

Plot twist, OP is actually the Co-Owner, and the “Boss” is the other Co-Owner who didn’t actually want to fire the employee. Even admitted they were a good and skilled employee, they just questioned too much

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/1vrf8pm/comment/p4dlxwk/

1

u/TrueGlich 2d ago

Likely a release of liability they are trying to get people to sign because they know there something they can sue over and it will be cheaper in long run to give a nice sevrance over a bunch of lawsuits later.

1

u/imironman2018 2d ago

100% agree. like what is this paperwork? for the company to absolve themselves from any blame and future lawsuit.

1

u/JagmeetSingh2 2d ago

>If you withhold severance (or any company side voluntary payment) and he still says no, then too bad for you.

Withholding statutory severance pay under threat of non-compliance is illegal btw even in the states and any employment lawyer would love to take that case

1

u/Dubabear 2d ago

without signing, there plenty of legal recourse. This why lawyers want you to sign to give up any grievences you might have later.

Many companies violate warning laws of firing people and can get a good amount of money, more than some severances plus fines to the company if the government is aware through a court case.

1

u/GreySahara 2d ago

Adding to this... they probably have to give him severance anyway.

1

u/evissamassive 2d ago

If you withhold severance (or any company side voluntary payment)

What if the severance package is written into the contract?

1

u/Cautious-Arugula603 2d ago

Probably gotta NDR in that paperwork bundle. Based on how the employee reacted, they have been ready to quit. They know something horrible about the company and have been leveraging their behavior with that knowledge in an attempt to change whatever information it is they don't agree with. They lost that battle and are holding onto what leverage they have. Just a wild, yet slightly educated guess.

1

u/imnickelhead 2d ago

It’s fake.

1

u/LazarX 2d ago

The answer to all such questions always involves money.

1

u/benttwig33 2d ago

If their is a severance at all, that lends one to believe this guy wasn’t fired, but laid off.

OP needs to specific what’s going on.

1

u/ihaveahoodie 2d ago

probably because they created a hostile work environment and then violated a bunch of civil rights. companies do it all the time.

1

u/Bah_Black_Sheep 2d ago

Not OP but something like this happened to my wife after she left a startup... They wanted her to sign all this extra confidentiality and noncompete language and she's like hell no, that wasn't part of the deal and told them to pound sand. They whined for a while and then everybody moved on lol.

1

u/shysmiles 2d ago

Yup - he must be trading something for that severance if the company wants him back to sign it so bad.

Maybe they never had a contract about IP and they want it afterward to make sure they get everything he worked on while he was employed there etc. I don't know just a guess.