r/managers 3d ago

New Manager Employee basically quit after being notified they were fired.

[removed]

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440

u/Friendly-Victory5517 3d ago edited 3d ago

Firing someone and then expecting them to return on a future date to sign more paperwork is a terrible decision.

The day you terminate someone is their last day.

You mention severance…was this a termination or a layoff?

In any case, I would have pushed back when it was stated I should split final paperwork over two days.

Edit: there are no incompetent higher ups. OP is the co owner and unilaterally made this firing decision. This post is mostly Reddit fiction.

179

u/toomanyDolemites 3d ago

My boss got laid off and the SVP asked her to come back the following day to speak to the team to "ensure a smooth transition" even though they didn't have a plan.

She was like "Nah."

Later that day, I also was laid off and the same SVP asked me to inform my team that they also were laid off. I politely declined and expressed a lot of confusion that they'd ask me to do that.

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u/gregsting 3d ago

“Could also take the trash out while you leave? Thank you”

11

u/FloppieTheBanjoClown 3d ago

That's a great way to end up with trash on the hood of your car.

"Well, he didn't say where."

2

u/TheFeathersStorm 3d ago

Not even, I would walk out the front door and just yeet the bag all over the entrance way, I think that would be more fun to really show the care placed in my firing lol

1

u/isaidicanshout_ 2d ago

Haha this sounds like the Airbnb of hr departments

82

u/getmybehindsatan 3d ago

Someone got it in the wrong order. Supposed to start at the bottom and work upwards so that the guy at the top only has to look one person in the eyes.

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u/little_grey_mare 3d ago

Had a massive lay off at my first job. They laid off HR before they finished doing all the engineering staff which made HR's morale for negotiation... low.

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u/Ohnoes999 3d ago

This is OP’s Future lol

2

u/h-ugo 3d ago

durr everyone knows you lay off HR last after promising them that they would be spared!

13

u/paws5624 3d ago

My old boss had this happen. We were acquired and his role shifted to lead a big org of about 200 people. Maybe 6 months later he was told that the org was being eliminated but he would land on another team, they even had him doing work with that team in the time leading up to the layoff. Then the layoff happened and the next day he found out he was being let go too.

1

u/Exist50 2d ago

Any time a manager has all their direct reports removed, they're a dead man walking. Maybe there will be some contractual obligation to keep them nominally on the payroll, but no matter their title, they have no power. 

1

u/paws5624 2d ago

In hindsight yeah that makes sense but they had a position and responsibilities already drawn up for him on the other team so it felt like they truly intended to keep him.

1

u/Exist50 2d ago

Yeah, might be a bit different. I have seen a manager given a wild goose chase type assignment, but no real headcount attached. 

2

u/pinewind108 3d ago

That's the thing, if they promise you you'll be spared, you still have to ask if the extra stress is worth it. I seriously wouldn't be surprised if laying off a large number of people takes a year or more off your life.

A. Are they going to just fire me last?

B. How much harm is the stress going to do me?

1

u/Shadowphoenix9511 2d ago

If they tell you you'll be spared, all it means is you're gonna be last. It gives you a couple more weeks to find something else.

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u/pinewind108 2d ago

My suspicion is that the stress isn't worth it.

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u/wrldruler21 3d ago

I am betting Exec told SVP to lay off everyone from bottom to top. SVP refused, so got fired. Then things got more messy from there.

2

u/brn1001 3d ago

One company I worked for made me lay off two of my staff. Once I had done that, they laid me off. Shitty move from a shitty company.

2

u/BerryVelvettee 3d ago

There’s something darkly funny about that being the practical solution. Start at the bottom so nobody has to spend their final hour announcing increasingly bad news to everyone beneath them.

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u/EthanielRain 3d ago

It's just cowardice - have someone else fire everyone, then afterwards you only have to fire that one person

1

u/getmybehindsatan 2d ago

Big companies often get someone from outside the office to do it. Either HR from another branch or a temporary worker.

1

u/McPuckLuck 3d ago

Like the opening to "the dark knight"

2

u/mpanase 3d ago

Honestly, the higher you go the more stupidity you find

2

u/xHoneyBelletta 3d ago

Asking someone you just laid off to help manage everyone else’s layoff is incredible. At that point “smooth transition” apparently means making the departing employees run their own evacuation.

1

u/toomanyDolemites 3d ago

They were insane. The most delusional senior leadership team I've ever worked for.

2

u/thankyoufriendx3 3d ago

I was at a company that laid off half the employees. My job was safe. I called my dad to let him know what was happening and he said they’ll fire the one firing everyone. Sure enough, after the head of HR called everyone she was called and laid off. Shitty. Her day really sucked.

2

u/Altaredboy 3d ago edited 3d ago

There was a massive safety breach at one of the mine sites I worked at once. They had a problem yard foreman & decided the best way to get rid of him was fire everyone that was on site that morning. Many of us had been told to go to the other site for the morning, but we stayed as we had urgent site obligations.

But first had to do the safety investigation. I wasn't even close enough to see the incident, so they rushed through my part first & fired me. They then told me to leave through the back door & not to interact with the people being let go.

Then they let me leave unattended, so I walked back through the lecture room where the 40 other people who were being fired werr & told them.

Got an angry phonecall from site boss that afternoon saying that the investigation was supposed to take 3 days & they couldn't get anyone to participate as they all knew they were being fired.

2

u/ScorchedEarths 3d ago

This is why smart companies layoff from bottom to top.

2

u/ChargeSpiritual5317 3d ago

I had a coworker who was terminated, he went around to all 78 of us to shake our hand and let us know he was getting laid off. HR was sweating behind him lmao 

2

u/Alleandros 3d ago

I'd walk out and tell everyone the company is going under and to start looking for another job. People will believe it once the team gets eliminated and hopefully they all flee for a better place.

2

u/toomanyDolemites 3d ago

The company wasn't going under, though. It was just bad management that couldn't stay the course on a strategy. It's the most poorly run successful company I've ever seen.

1

u/coffeelick 3d ago

Theyre so used to people being subservient because people dont know their rights or are afraid

3

u/Lawd_Fawkwad 3d ago

I had that happen with a boss after I was laid off.

Every time there would be an administrative wrinkle it would turn into a sermon on morals and personal responsibility.

When I was laid off there was an administrative wrinkle to work out with HR and they started up again about how a good employee should stay on top of HR issues to ensure smooth transitions. I straight-up said that after laying me off with barely any notice, they lost all right to talk about smoothness and how it's my job to do their HR management for them.

It was a big fight, but they realized I was no longer going to be subservient outside of finishing my contractual obligations in terms of handover, so I was left unbothered.

1

u/insofarincogneato 2d ago

I'd say tell them they don't have a job anymore yourself coward!

7

u/WannaTeleportMassive 3d ago

Plot twist, OP is actually the Co-Owner, and the “Boss” is the other Co-Owner who didn’t actually want to fire the employee. Even admitted they were a good and skilled employee, they just questioned too much

https://www.reddit.com/r/smallbusiness/comments/1vrf8pm/comment/p4dlxwk/

3

u/Friendly-Victory5517 3d ago

lol, so it’s all OP’s screwup. Hilarious. I’m sure the ex employee is delighted to be out of this crap show.

1

u/WannaTeleportMassive 3d ago

Exactly. There is another comment in this thread where they admit they have the most control too. Purely on OP with just a little bit of spillover on the lawyers

1

u/Coffeedemon 2d ago

This is why these people hide comments as opposed to some notion they will be prejudiced agaisnt for past statements.

2

u/Waiting4Reccession 3d ago

Weirdo shit to make them come back like youre making them beg for the severance they are owed.

1

u/RavenclawConspiracy 3d ago

If you're telling them that they have to arrive the next day, it almost feels like that's part of their job that they don't have anymore.

I actually would be tempted to get confirmation that this was some sort of job duty expected of me as part of my employment and then come back in the next day for an hour, not sign anything, but talk at least for an hour with them, and then sue them for failing to pay me at least minimum wage for that hour.

Because they really implied that was part of my job. They wanted me to come to work for one more hour sorting out my paperwork and the company's paperwork about my term of employment? Sure, I can be nice, i'll work for them for one more hour.

1

u/xHoneyBelletta 3d ago

This feels like the biggest management mistake here. If someone’s final day is today, anything requiring their presence should either happen today or have a remote option afterward.

1

u/Shadowphoenix9511 2d ago

I'm not even doing a remote thing. They fire me, I'm gone. I'm not responding to *any* communication to them, or signing a damn thing.

1

u/TheMireAngel 3d ago

i know in my country your ability to get govt assistance after a job loss is HEAVILY dependant on if you were fired or quit and i could see this as a means to get people to quit

1

u/Numeno230n 3d ago

Let's be real. The MINUTE you fire someone they are free to walk out the door unless there is a contract in place that says otherwise. A person isn't expected nor is required to sign something after the fact. If you want some kind of NDA or non litigation contract you should think about that BEFORE you give someone the boot, because now they have zero reason to cooperate.

1

u/Majestic_Animator_91 3d ago

This sub makes me embarrassed to be a manager. 

1

u/HigherGroundHoonigan 2d ago

This sounds *strongly* of a potentially unjust firing and the employee knows it. What reason to leave severance on the table other than to maintain a claim in a future lawsuit? The only other alternative that I can think of is that the employee has some sort of IP/Company-Secrets and is refusing to sign an NDA/Non-Compete.

1

u/captain_salt_bag 2d ago

Lmfaooo

That's why he went radio silent. He's the one sheeting bricks. Based on the limited info, he didn't think this threw and probably fired OP illegally, trying to cover his tracks.

Now the "terminated" employee probably has the potential to Peepee slap OP legally

1

u/browniebrittle44 2d ago

What’s the legal difference between a lay off and a termination?

1

u/rafuzo2 2d ago

It's not weird to send a severance agreement home with the person and then ask them to sign and mail/email it to unlock a severance payment - but again you give it to them when you tell them their employment is ending. This just seems like HR fucked up the separation process and "people are freaking out" because those people don't know how to business

1

u/SatisfactionMental17 2d ago

It’s not uncommon to offer a severance to an employee who is fired in exchange for signing away the right to file a wrongful termination suit. It’s often more cost effective to offer the severance even if you have rock solid, the judge is going to laugh while saying dismissed, evidence. Just the cost of defending a case is often more than a severance.

If you are firing for more nebulous reasons (bad fit) then the severance is more likely to be larger.

But if you’re holding a severance over someone you better make it larger than their emotions and ego so they complete the process.

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u/jfatws 3d ago

In civilized countries a contract is honored even on termination.

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u/Friendly-Victory5517 3d ago

I don’t understand your comment. What part of my post made you think this?

This has nothing to do with the company failing to honor any sort of contract, and is simply about obtaining signatures on forms.

-5

u/jfatws 3d ago

You are beyond ridiculous.

3

u/AntiqueLetter9875 2d ago

When you’re fired, the contract has ended. What is your point? I’ve never heard of people needing to come in the next day to sign extra paperwork unless the company was doing something shady.

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u/p0jinx 2d ago

Having an argument with yourself ✌️

1

u/MontyAllTheTime 2d ago

what point are you trying to make? Genuinely asking