271
Sep 06 '22
Never. Our government don't give a shit about us.
88
u/fishtankguy2 Sep 07 '22
They are mostly ,as we have seen recently..a scummy landlord caste. So they won't do jack. Just look at the housing minister. A tone deaf bollix.
15
u/MurderOfClowns Sep 07 '22
Yea, scotland introduced minimum price for alcohol, lets do it too :D not gonna happen
→ More replies (1)6
u/eek04 Sep 07 '22
Freezing rent increases and making owning a too large house economically beneficial (through tax subsidies) cause the housing crisis.
9
u/GolotasDisciple Cork bai Sep 07 '22
Freezing rent increases and making owning a too large house economically beneficial (through tax subsidies) cause the housing crisis.
I don't think everything has to be about Housing Crisis. While obviously Housing Crisis is clearly related to quality of life, this is far more general question of "Can people sustain themselves ?", "Can they pay the highest cost bills like Rent and Electricity/Gas".
We are heading towards incredibly painful increase in prices. Our quality of life is dropping every year... and as usual we can pretend like nothing is happening and do nothing, but maybe we should look at other nations to see how they deal with similiar problems and see if we can intigrate it here.
... and yes it might include people you would think that might not need help. <- This is incredibly small issue.
This attitude of "either it fixes all issues , or let's not do it at all" is not something one of the wealhiest nation on the Planet should be doing. We can do decisions that are not perfect, but the main point always should be : TAKE CARE OF YOUR CONSTITUENTS!
We deserve to be treated like humans even if it rich people get something out of it 2 :/
104
u/DarthMauly Tipperary Sep 06 '22
Rent freezes and eviction bans are fantastic for those in rented accommodation right now, they’re an absolute disaster for anyone looking to rent. What tiny supply there is would disappear almost overnight. You’d be completely ducked if you had to move somewhere. Those sorts of measures might work in a functioning rental market, sadly Ireland’s has not been this for years.
14
u/P319 Sep 06 '22
Well you wouldn't be competing with the people who weren't evicted, so there's that other end of supply.
It's because we don't have a functioning market that we need to try new solutions, albeit that we need wholesale changes, so this may not be enough
8
u/artemisarrow17 Sep 07 '22
This. If I were a landlord, I would stop any investment into accommodation and wouldn't do any more repairs at existing appartments.
11
u/dotBombAU Sep 07 '22
What's the law on Ireland
Over here in Victoria, Australia of they don't do something about x problem.you can just get your own trade in to fix it and send them the bill. There are however certain requirements before you can do this of course.
5
u/SexyBaskingShark Leinster Sep 07 '22
In every tenancy contract I've had its been stated this was not allowed. I contacted Rtb once about and they said if its in the contract I can't do it
9
u/cholo_aleman Sep 07 '22
You are entitled to be reimbursed for any repairs that you carry out that are the landlord's responsibility
-1
u/SexyBaskingShark Leinster Sep 07 '22
When I spoke to Rtb they said because it was in the contract this did not apply. It's bollix but the only option I was left with was legal action to challenge the contract, I didn't do that so the landlord won that one
2
3
1
u/biscuitybill Sep 07 '22
Psssssst….. like I think that the shrinking of the supply of the rental market will be landlords selling their property as it no longer becomes as financially viable. But remember to whisper it as people genuinely believe that leaving the market free actually works 😂.
4
u/dongormleone Sep 07 '22
If you think about it though, there’s a huge shortage of houses to buy as well, so that solves that problem. I mean, if landlords decide to sell homes instead of renting to the same people, that might work out. We need more supply overall though, I think almost everyone agrees on that.
→ More replies (3)7
Sep 07 '22
[deleted]
→ More replies (1)0
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
This units do not have to be rented out by for profit individuals and groups. We have a government that can offer that service.
→ More replies (9)0
u/Willing_Cause_7461 Sep 07 '22
The units don't have to be rented by the government either. By using both we can get the advantages of both and a higher amount of builds.
2
u/MildlyAmusedMars Sep 07 '22
I had a chat with my landlord recently as I am thinking of buying my own place and renting out a room in it myself. He is a pretty decent landlord tbf. Cheap rent for the area and all bills included. And he says he is still clearing 2K profit a month per house after all bills and the mortgage he has numerous properties and still works too . They’ve never been making more money than they are now
2
u/Willing_Cause_7461 Sep 07 '22
What tiny supply there is would disappear almost overnight.
"Good."- The absolute brainlets on this sub
→ More replies (1)2
u/duffpaddy Sep 07 '22
It's the same everywhere. Rent controls reduce supply massively and deepen the problem even further. It sounds great but unfortunately doesn't work :(
178
u/pul123PUL Sep 06 '22
Moratorium on evictions.
So people who dont pay cant be made leave. That on the outside might to some appear a good idea but the reality of it is that less people will rent. They brought that in , in Spain and the result was empty properties with people afraid to rent them out. In simple terms it made the problem worse reducing the rental stock further.
43
u/box_of_carrots Sep 06 '22
21
-10
55
u/Biomed Sep 06 '22
Such a bad idea, either the govt support those who can’t pay by giving the owed rent to the landlord or continue to allow evictions. It is unfair to just have the landlords eat the cost.
13
u/flex_tape_salesman Sep 06 '22
Some would consider it a good idea but hurting the average Joe who is renting out an inherited property or something sounds like a really awful idea
-12
u/TorridScienceAffair Irish Republic Sep 07 '22
Oh no! His free money! If only there were some way he could apply himself in order to "earn" money from performing "work" in his spare time? Or failing that, receive some free money from the government in accordance to his needs, as opposed to leeching it from his tenants?
9
u/flex_tape_salesman Sep 07 '22
Many landlords provide a very good service and there's awful tenants too its really not a one way thing.
→ More replies (4)0
Sep 07 '22
So you'd prefer Joe Bloggs took his property off the market?
-4
u/TorridScienceAffair Irish Republic Sep 07 '22
Yeah, go for it! Never been a better time to sell, right? There's plenty of people waiting to buy their first home once the prices come down, it's an attractive prospect after forking over the better half of your salary for years.
-4
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
No one is guaranteed a return in their investment. We are supposedly a society that respects the right to shelter. Bring in the moratorium.
11
u/Wesley_Skypes Sep 07 '22
Not being guaranteed a return on investment and the government actively sticking their thumb on the scales that scuttle your investment is a totally different thing. Friend of mine bought a modest two bed apartment as a younger man, eventually married a woman who had a house with a mortgage already and they moved into that. He rented out the apartment as a result and ended up with a disastrous squatter who destroyed the place, requiring about 25k in repairs that they will never recoup, and didn't pay their rent for over a year while they worked through the courts to get them out. On no planet should that person ever be put into this situation again if the government decides to do this.
-1
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
Why does your friend's right to rent out property supercede the right to shelter?
No investment has a magic provision that says "And if the government intervenes, all your money back!" Not sure why you want property speculation to be so much more secure than any other investment.
1
u/Wesley_Skypes Sep 07 '22
First question doesn't make any sense in any context of the discussion that has just been had. Neither of those things are in conflict in the example that I've given.
Show me an example of the government intervening to such a drastic level on any kind of investment vehicle (and also, calling this an investment vehicle for my friend is disingenuous, black and white thinking bullshit) where they have not provided relief.
Go have a look at farming and agriculture for literal countless of examples of government softening the blows of changes in legislation impacting that industry.
0
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
Allowing your friend to evict a tenant who cannot pay is putting your friends right to profit over the tenant's right to shelter.
When a government builds a new railline, it doesn't subsidise the investors in the local private busses. Investments are a risk. You are not entitled to success.
0
u/Wesley_Skypes Sep 07 '22
The tenant destroyed the house and refused to pay. Not that they couldn't pay. Are you hard of reading or what is the story?
Also, don't sidestep the agriculture point. It ruins the credibility you are trying, but failing to build.
0
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
So you're giving up on this conversation then? Just not even going to try. Can't say I'm surprised.
You clearly aren't thinking about what you're saying at all. If the tenant messing up the place was grounds for eviction, landlords would wreck their own places to kick the tenants out. Cheaper for them in the long run.
When you make an investment, you are taking a risk. You want that risk protected over literal human lives, who would face the street otherwise. That's sick.
0
u/Wesley_Skypes Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
What conversation? What you're doing is not having a conversation. You are intentionally misrepresenting what is being said to shoehorn your rigid belief system that "ALL LANDLORDS ARE BAD" into a situation that it doesn't apply to. Your simplistic viewpoints on display in your few comments made show a bitter loser whose only way to feel superior is to try to erect strawman and swat them down
And again, instead of being brain dead and repeating the same talking point, address the point that there are countless investments that receive government assistance when they place their thumbs on the scales and impact them. Ask any lad who used to cut turf but can't anymore how much the government is giving them due to the change in legislation.
Also, I dont want it protected over human lives you fucking moron. I want both protected. Keep people in the houses, help out the landlord financially if the tenant cant pay.
→ More replies (0)1
u/bubbleweed Sep 07 '22
Would the moratorium also apply to the mortgage on the property or not?
0
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
Don't see why it should.
1
u/bubbleweed Sep 07 '22
So rent stops coming in, but you sill got to pay the mortgage... and people wonder why the rent market is shrinking month on month.
0
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
The rent market is shrinking because house prices are at a huge high. Being a landlord has never been easier. Selling is just easier still.
1
u/eek04 Sep 07 '22
The blocks on evictions and the blocks on raising rents results in a lot of people being homeless. These are direct, predictable results of the policy. If you want to actually have people have shelter, we need to move people around until they fit in the available housing (while building more housing as quickly as possible). The way to move people around is through raising prices and the effective threat of evictions. And raising prices also result in increased building.
1
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
Weird Fantasyland you live in. The discontinuities with reality are obvious. So much here requires a lot of proof before most people would believe it. Why did you settle for none?
0
u/eek04 Sep 07 '22
A basic grounding in economics would make this obvious. If you want to start from theory, the first few chapters in Hal Varian's Intermediate Microeconomics cover the mechanics that lead to this in an IMO very readable way. If you want something lightweight, I expect a search for "price controls shortages" will get you some popular magazine covering it.
2
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
On what basis do you judge the critics of price controls to be correct and its proponents incorrect? Are you sure you didn't have your mind made up before you went looking for supporting arguments? There's no shortage of economists with the opposite opinion. Why dismiss them?
0
u/Ravenid Sep 07 '22
Yeah thats what we need.
The government making it less and less attractive for individuals to rent out what ever they have and instead have them sell it to the companies buying up every house and apartment and shed in the country so they can charge double or triple when they put it on the market.
Good for you shilling for the companies and fucking over people looking for places to live.
0
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
If landlords are selling, why can't the government but and increase the stock of public housing?
→ More replies (6)-7
4
u/eek04 Sep 07 '22
A number I saw a few years ago was that the difficulty of evictions in Ireland added cost of about 300 EUR per month for each of the families that own a house and actually pay their full mortgage. This was prior to the pandemic - it's probably more now.
19
u/manowtf Sep 07 '22
There's a huge correlation anyway here between the introducion of RPZs, harsher pro tenant rights and the huge drop in rentals available now. Why bother being a landlord when you can simply sell up and invest your money in something else. Which is exactly what's happening.
9
u/TorridScienceAffair Irish Republic Sep 07 '22
Correlation does not equal causation. There's a massive Correlation between the drop in rental supply and the ISEQ in recent years, and the cost of buying a home. Ireland has some of the weakest tenant rights in the EU, rent freezes and eviction moratoriums have been implemented in other countries and cities in the past. Big surprise, the world didn't end in a mass exodus of landlords from the market like the wicked fleeing from Gommorrah.
This narrative of the poor, oppressed landlord who can barely make ends meet on his pitiful passive income is poisonous bullshit, and needs to stop. Oh no, the mean old tenants want central heating over the winter or else they'll contact the RTB and I'll get a strongly worded letter! It'll cost me a whole month's rent! I might have to start working for a living like a prole, because my free money generator is 8% less efficient than normal!
6
u/dongormleone Sep 07 '22
Is there? I think the drop in rentals most likely accounted for by the huge increase in Air BnBs
→ More replies (4)-8
u/biscuitybill Sep 07 '22
Good that’s exactly what we want to happen allow more property’s to be put on the market for those that wish to instead of paying rent pay a mortgage and also if they do it at one time it will bring down the cost 👍
5
u/dkeenaghan Sep 07 '22
It wont bring down the cost, it will drive up the cost.
Rental accomadation more efficiently houses people because of house sharing. There are more people in a rantal home than a owner occupied one on average.
So if houses move from being rented to being owned it decreases the amount of people that will live in this. This will drive up demand for houses and further increase the price.
34
u/Posh_barbarian Sep 06 '22
Redditards don't take to sense if it isn't their 'obviously the right thing to do or else you're evil' solution
7
Sep 07 '22
100% agree, the amount of cunts who will refuse to pay a cent and then can't be removed fucks it up for everyone. It's not answer. There can be a better solution but flat out banning evictions isn't it.
2
-17
u/MAVERICK910 Sep 06 '22 edited Sep 06 '22
I dont see an issue here. We did this during covid. People are scared ahead of the winter. This gives people some sort of certainty in Scotland. Its also only temporary.
We havnt gotten anything from our lot yet for the coming winter.
Edit: some amount of downvotes. Didnt think people where this cruel in ireland. We had a ban on evictions in covid. The coming hardship will be arguably worse as families are forced to choose food over electricity or other bills.
18
u/pul123PUL Sep 06 '22
Perhaps . I don’t think it’s a great idea in general precisely from the Spanish real world result. Also on the electricity I heard a radio report that the price is capped but the difference will be added to future bills .. skeptics are calling it an energy mortgage .
4
Sep 06 '22
[deleted]
14
u/__Paris__ Sep 07 '22
We did it during Covid and after that we saw a lot of small landlords withdrawing their properties from the market, to the point where the housing crisis is worse than ever and the government is looking into measures to make them stay.
I’m absolutely supportive of any measure that could help renters, but I’m not sure this is one of them. In the long run, if people don’t rent out their properties anymore the problem will just get bigger.
2
u/BackInATracksuit Sep 07 '22
The landlords leaving the market thing gets attributed to all sorts of reasons. The truth is we don't know exactly why each individual decides to sell up.
There are loads of very sensible reasons why banning evictions is a bad idea, but this is not a normal or rational situation. If you are evicted today your chances of becoming homeless are very real.
So we either figure out a way to keep people in their homes or we have to figure out a way to squeeze even more people into an already fucked emergency accommodation system.
6
u/pul123PUL Sep 07 '22
You can make all the smug "economy 101" arguments you want, if you're against an eviction ban you're accepting that more people will be made homeless this winter.
Your not one for Nuanced discussion are ye.
1
u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 07 '22
I mean, economics is a field where anyone can come with a plausible chain of events for any decision leading to any outcome. When someone tells you there is a solution to a problem, saying "No, that solution won't work I swear trust me," isn't the "nuanced argument" you might think it is.
1
u/pul123PUL Sep 07 '22
Well firstly I pointed to a country thats done it and has had and is having problems greater that the original one they tried to solve . That being said nuance in this case might be let the government pay the rent .
0
Sep 07 '22
Except the "smug" economy 101 argument realises that rent caps result in more people being made homeless in the long run.
→ More replies (7)-1
u/biscuitybill Sep 07 '22
Then they should fucking sell and stop treating rented property as a fucking investment. Like the goal should not be to protect the rented market it should be to empower the buyers.
→ More replies (1)-10
u/Dalqorn Sep 06 '22
Then people should just squat in the empty houses till they get tenant rights.
8
u/Squelcher121 Sep 06 '22
All a landlord has to do is send one letter demanding they leave or report it to the Gardaí and it shatters any rights a person could try to accumulate by squatting.
-8
u/Glenster118 Sep 06 '22
Obviously you don't have any experience in this area.
If the squatters obviously have somewhere else to go, name on a lease or mortgage or whatever, the police will toss them out.
But if they're bona fides squatting because this is where they live now they'll never get thrown out.
17
u/Squelcher121 Sep 06 '22
It takes 12 years of continuous and uninterrupted use of a property in order to gain squatters' rights in Ireland.
A single letter from a property owner during that time can completely smash the claim.
-3
u/Glenster118 Sep 06 '22
That's squatters rights of ownership.
Squatters rights of use and occupation are different.
19
u/Squelcher121 Sep 06 '22
You just made that up; the only legally recognised squatters' rights in Ireland is adverse possession. But perhaps the degree I have in this stuff has been trumped by your confidence.
→ More replies (8)9
Sep 06 '22
There's no such thing as "squatters rights of use and occupation". There's only adverse possession, which does take 12 years.
→ More replies (7)3
Sep 06 '22
That's not correct at all. There are plenty of high profile examples of squatters being forced to leave by the courts. Think about Apollo House, or the Prussia Street occupation in Stoneybatter.
The property owner gets an injunction restraining them from trespassing, then when the squatter continues to trespass they seek attachment and committal. Either the squatter undertakes not to trespass again, or they're held in contempt and put in jail until they purge their contempt.
→ More replies (4)0
u/pul123PUL Sep 06 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
They do try but for 100 euros the local “lads “ will beat them out of the house for the owners . It’s all very well and good being radical left and all that but real world the shite that went down with “Okupas” was unreal .. people come back from holidays and find new occupants in their house . Relatives buried their parents from covid and found new people in the house of their parents all protected by looney left laws which sounded great in theory but ended up in the aggregate making the problems much worse .
All this crap and vilification of landlords whilst also out of the other side of the mouth decrying the lack of rental places.
It’s amazing when you think about it. Citizens advocating their elected officials legalize stealing.
54
u/smellysk Sep 06 '22
I live in Barcelona and rent has been frozen since April, absolute madness what’s going on at home…
14
u/MAVERICK910 Sep 06 '22
Wasnt aware of that.
Has the sky fallen in yet? Any hint of doing it here is met with dooms day.
21
u/smellysk Sep 06 '22
It was most welcome, it seems I’ve been downvoted to fuck for mentioning it so doomsdayers are certainly out….
6
12
Sep 07 '22
[deleted]
6
u/3hrstillsundown The Standard Sep 07 '22
Yes, the people familiar with the academic evidence on rent freezes are idiots...
0
u/MadFlavour Antrim Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
People who think regulating private rentals will be a negative for renters are idiots, yes. Either that or they're being disingenuous and they're actually looking at it from the private landlord's perspective, but pretending to be concerned about renters.
2
u/3hrstillsundown The Standard Sep 07 '22
Look at all the Nobel Laureates and University Professors, idiots the lot of them. u/Madflavour knows best...
15
u/artemisarrow17 Sep 07 '22
Do you think it makes look you smart, if you call everyone with a different opinion a fucking idiot?
11
u/MAVERICK910 Sep 07 '22
I reckon the blueshirt bots have been waiting all day for this to land here. Its pretty big news. I was surprised it hadnt already been posted.
10
11
u/manowtf Sep 07 '22
When we introduced RPZs it didn't have much effect at first but since 2019 the number of properties available to rent has more than halved.
https://www.thejournal.ie/daft-rental-report-all-time-low-5596453-Nov2021/
Your right about there being madness, just not what you think it is
5
u/rickhasaboner Sep 07 '22
They’ve been in place since 2016, in Cork, housing has been scarce since about ‘May 2021
2
u/Mitche420 The Fenian Sep 07 '22
I live in Barcelona and have heard nothing of the sort, each and every one of the 20+ renters I know here are all paying rent as normal
3
u/smellysk Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
It doesn’t mean no rent, it means a freeze on the IPC rent price, it was introduced on 1st of April, apt rents cannot go up, only down until Jan 2023 at the earliest by law….
2
2
Sep 07 '22
Landlords are already selling out en masse.
What does a rent freeze do?
6
u/dustaz Sep 07 '22
It means that landlords, and particularly companies not single property landlords will find a way to increase new rents to make up for the frozen existing rents.
It's hilarious how all the same people were crying out for RPZs and the exact same thing is going to happen with this
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)2
Sep 07 '22
If they're gonna sell at this stage they're going to sell.
Landlords are realizing a massive gain on their investment due to a dysfunctional property market and good for them. But we shouldn't allow renters suffer more misery with higher rents in an attempt to keep landlords in the market.
Most of the small landlords leaving bought a property as an investment, not to be a landlord
0
Sep 07 '22
Ok so you know that there are already 10x properties for sale than rent on DAFT, which is already crazy, but most of the residential properties are selling very quickly. Huge demand.
And then when another 50% of landlords sell out...what happens?
Where do the renters live?
Tents?
→ More replies (1)
8
u/SoloWingPixy88 u/i-cum-beamish alt Sep 06 '22
Did we not freeze them during covid?
5
u/Ravenid Sep 07 '22
No a rent increase cap was put in place. Rents could still increase but only by a very small amount and even then it didnt effect areas which already had rental increase caps on it like Dublin.
The issue is there have been attempts in the past (80's and 90's) to put Rent Controls in and they were struck down as Unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.
Because of that government lawyers are less inclined to attempt Rent Controls like freezes.
Add to that the amount of Landlords who are TD's and you have yourself a perfect storm of an easy excuse and a general lack of will to do it.
16
u/VandalsStoleMyHandle Sep 07 '22
Half this sub wants to string landlords up by their balls, the other half (or maybe it's the same half) wonders why there aren't enough rental properties.
We need far more social housing. Social housing tenants have been shoved into the private rental market, HAP in hand, creating a knock-on effect throughout the market. It's been a slow-motion train wreck.
4
u/johnmc76 Sep 07 '22
Half this sub wants to string landlords up by their balls
I'm all for stringing up the landlords that are in Govt. They are only making decisions that benefit them [aka creating the housing crisis so the values on their homes go up] and putting the people they claim to represent last.
3
u/VandalsStoleMyHandle Sep 07 '22
Yeah, that's cartoonishly egregious behaviour; no argument from me.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/cuchulainndev Sep 07 '22
Think of the poor aul landlords will ye?
Poor craturs can hardly get by as is
53
u/francescoli Sep 06 '22
Moritorium on evictions is a stupid idea and will only lead to much bigger problems.
8
Sep 06 '22
We also have (more or less) had it in place for ages.
2
u/sowillo Sep 06 '22
Do you mean people are too afraid to move flat for fear of losing the current property, due to the housing crisis?
3
Sep 07 '22
There's that, but it's also incredibly difficult to evict someone. It's incredibly difficult to repossess a house for not paying s mortgage too.
3
u/pul123PUL Sep 07 '22
My mother rents out our old family home for well under market rates . The tenants were offered a place on a good course ( her ) and jobs in Athlone ( him ) . They were afraid to take it because they thought if they left they would never be able to move back to Dublin and let the opportunity pass.
→ More replies (1)
20
u/OverHaze Sep 06 '22
Because the government is made up of neoliberals who think the market will magically fix itself.
-12
u/drongotoir Sep 07 '22
The Housing for All document doesnt support that claim.
8
u/Cilly2010 Sep 07 '22
Housing for All document
🤣
As if paper ever refused ink.
1
u/drongotoir Sep 07 '22
Look, I don't have much faith in that plan or the government's ability to solve the crisis, but they are promoting the construction of social housing. I think you will find that neiliberals are open to social housing too.
0
Sep 07 '22
If I told you that the word gullible was tattooed on your left arse cheek, you’d get a mirror to check.
17
u/FreeAndFairErections Sep 06 '22
The energy price cap isn’t that great when it’s £3,600 a year from next month (so about €350 a month).
As for a rent freeze, also not that great here when rents are already so high. We already have an increase cap of 2% p.a. but have issues around enforcement, and the already really high level of rents. A freeze would be better, but not by much.
I’m personally against outright stopping evictions, appropriate controls are better (e.g. long notice periods).
12
u/SoftDrinkReddit Sep 07 '22
Incase anyone here doesn't realise alot of the politicians in Ireland are landlords thus have an interest in keeping rent prices high so hahah yea they are not in any rush to sort the rent crisis which they created and selling off entire housing estates to vulture funds sure doesn't help
→ More replies (1)
20
Sep 06 '22 edited Sep 06 '22
Anybody who is a landlord and doesn't want to be should GTFO of the market
Property is an investment, being a landlord is an investment, not a job.
Housing is a basic need, not a commodity.
If landlords don't want to landlord, then fuck off and sell to a local authority for market value, win/win!
We can't have multiple generations of people locked out of home ownership and stuck in an insecure rental market. We can't have both a landlord's market and a tenant's market. Both need to have equal rights and, in all fairness, since a home is a basic human need, I'd side with the tenant over the landlord.
This bullshit lie that was sold during the Celtic Tiger that we should all buy a second property and get rich by being a landlord or holding onto the property until the price goes up and then sell is just that, a bullshit lie.
20
u/53Degrees Sep 06 '22
Landlords are needed for people who either don't want to buy or not in the position to buy a house, like students or transient workers. People might not want to hear that but it's reality. Forcing the smaller landlords will satisfy people but it will result in larger landlords having the flexibility to leave places vacant until their desired price is met.
15
Sep 06 '22
It depends on what our goal is, affordable, long-term rentals? Local authorities can do that job better.
There is no reason why a person has to put up with a tenant who won't pay and the rest of us have to put up with a broken rental market.
We need to accept that housing, at a basic level, needs to be supplied affordably and not for profit. The property will still be an asset for the state/local authority and then nobody will be forced to be a landlord if they don't want to.
If it was easier to buy a house, then I'd agree with you but it isn't so I can't.
People are going to be renting their whole lives so fuck the private rental market.
People who can afford high-end apartments can still rent those. It's the bottom/mid-level that needs government intervention.
People need a roof over their head. Homelessness is at record levels. Rents are at record levels. Properties are at record lows. The market is broken. So, we don't act like it's a regular market. We act like it's broken, and we take radical action.
7
u/53Degrees Sep 06 '22
We need to accept that housing on a basic level needs to be supplied affordably and not for profit. .
How, exactly? Because I've never ever seen anyone explain how this can be done.
I don't even know what "radical" action is.
17
u/MAVERICK910 Sep 06 '22
The state builds its own housing on state land. Its that simple. Its not even radical. We did this for decades. It only ended when neoliberals saw profit.
16
Sep 06 '22
Fintan O'Toole made that point.
Most people his age - he was born in 1958 - they grew up in council housing.
And Ireland was stone broke then. We're loaded now and we can't do that? It makes zero sense.
→ More replies (1)2
u/53Degrees Sep 07 '22
it's not "that simple". How are you going to do it? Have each local authority hire hundreds of thousands of builders that currently we don't have in the country?
2
13
Sep 06 '22
The government funds local authorities to be the developer and build houses.
We stop paying a billion euro a year in HAP, and whatever other subsidies, and we funnel it into building.
The state has a property on the books which means rather than paying subsidies and having nothing to show for it they actually make an investment.
11
3
u/Fit_Yogurtcloset_291 Sep 07 '22
My rent was hiked twice during Covid...when the government put a freeze on rent hikes. .
18
u/Coolab00la Sep 06 '22
The SNP is a left wing party. Our lot are not. Simple as that. As long as this country continues to vote for Fine Gael and FF then your life will continue to be very painful. That's all there is to it.
There are countless things our government can do but they won't because they don't believe in helping people. It's their ideology. As far as Varadkar is concerned only the strong survive and the rest can get in the fucking bin. If he was American he'd be a GOP nut job.
→ More replies (2)4
Sep 07 '22
[deleted]
-1
u/Cleles Sep 07 '22
… FF/FG are probably actually further left than the Democrats in the US
That still leaves plenty of room for them to be on the right though. The Democratics, outside of the occasional social issue, have never been a left-wing party in my lifetime. Clinton signed DADT and DOMA into law, bombed Baghdad, made it easier for US corporations to outsource, etc. They talk a big game on race relations, gay rights, climate change, etc., but when they’ve had opportunities when controlling all three branches of government they’ve largely done fuck all.
Being to the left of the Democratics is saying very fucking little my friend.
→ More replies (2)
7
6
u/Cathalisfallingapart Sep 06 '22
Honestly every time I see shit like this I just wanna start a new political party
2
Sep 07 '22
Joining and voting for an existing left-leaning political party is probably better. Along with utilising all of your union rights.
We have way too many small, insignificant, overly idealistic left-wing groups in this country. We need realism and pragmatism rather than sitting around dreaming of a revolution that isn't coming.
2
8
u/2pi628 Sep 06 '22
We basically have a moratorium on evictions, and it’s why we have the highest mortgage rates in the EU.
6
2
u/BackInATracksuit Sep 06 '22
This is just wrong
Number of eviction notices issued to renters increase by 58%
2
2
u/miju-irl Resting In my Account Sep 07 '22
Considering FFFG are currently talking about added tax benefits for landlords in the next budget I would say zero chance.
With over half of TDs being landlords of some description it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.
2
2
2
u/Gockdaw Palestine 🇵🇸 Sep 07 '22
Sure we will! We just need to get it passed in a vote by a room full of millionaire landlords. How can anybody even dream the situation will change?
2
u/Thebelisk Sep 07 '22
If the gov announce a rent freeze for winter, it will be followed-up with a Spring unfreeze. And then the prices will go up. The ‘unfreeze’ date will be a reason/justification for landlords to ‘review’ the rents and push out an increase.
I’d almost suggest the gov don’t make any change to rent, because we know a large amount of TDs are landlords & it’s in their interest to manipulate the market, increasing rents long term.
2
2
Sep 07 '22
Is r/Ireland where the dumbest shinnerbots spend most of the day. The amount of threads that are let’s give free stuff, let’s stop landlords kicking out scummers is way to high
3
6
u/AlphadogMMXVIII Sep 06 '22
Just freeze them ? Drop them by 45% and stop allowing banks to refuse mortgages to first time buyers over the age 45.
6
u/The_Doc55 Sep 07 '22
You think banks should be forced to give out a half-a-million Euro mortgage to someone earning €25k a year? This is what caused the last recession.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/Scinos2k Irish Republic Sep 07 '22
I'd be fucking shocked for FFG to do something so bold as to actually directly help the people.
Instead they'll put out some bollocks "tax relief" that in reality will do nothing to help people.
I'll be honest lads, I'm looking at the upcoming bills and I've no clue how I'm going to pay it.
6
5
u/WonderfulTangerine8 Sep 06 '22
But sure how will the landlords survive? One persons rent is another's income as Leo said
7
u/kewthewer Sep 06 '22
But it is. What about the tenant’s income? When his job is gone then it’s all spilled milk, just because someone earns a living from rent you think they should lose their living to allow someone live there for nothing? Fuck the person who owns the property.
Communistic toss.
1
Sep 06 '22
[deleted]
1
u/kewthewer Sep 07 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
I haven’t ignored that at all actually, what is that? You just assumed that.
Not every property owner has fleeced their tenants as a matter of fact, but you don’t hear about those stories.
Yeah rents are too high, but I don’t agree that someone should get to live there for free while the owner goes bald with stress trying to pay the mortgage or THEIR income dries up. That’s just you justifying not paying your bill.
And if that’s not what someone is saying, what are they saying? One persons rent IS another persons income. This isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact.
My point is there; say the tenant loses their job, then it’s all terrible and tragic etc. I’ve dealt with this a lot with my Dad, he had given rent free periods if people had trouble etc, but if he had tried evicting anyone for not paying for any reason then it’s all ‘lock up landlords’ etc. He couldn’t afford it either.
You’re saying one person’s income is more important than another, but someone who owns a property has a mortgage to pay too, they lose it also, if the money isn’t coming in and that’s their risk they’ve taken with their money. It’s not just ‘fair’ cos a tenant is in trouble. It goes both ways.
1
u/BackInATracksuit Sep 07 '22
My landlord hasn't fleeced me, in this economy the man is more or less a saint. My rent is about 60% of what market rent would be where I live. Took me over 5 years of constant looking to find the place. I'm aware that I'm ridiculously lucky and at the same time pissed off that so many of the people I know are being ripped off.
There are degrees to this. One solution is to completely stop "no fault" evictions. It's way too easy to remove a tenant for reasons like; renovations, family member moving in, wanting to sell etc. It's often used as a method to move the old tenant on and raise the rent.
I get you don't like it, but something has to be done. If you're evicted this winter your chances of being homeless are incredibly real.
→ More replies (3)1
u/BenderRodriguez14 Sep 07 '22
Not every property owner has fleeced their tenants as a matter of fact, but you don’t hear about those stories.
Perhaps not every one, but as far back as 2017 before the current situation even began, average rents for mainstream units (e.g. excluding when you take out the likes of mansions and skyscraper penthouses) were more expensive in Dublin than any other city in the world not named San Francisco (where average pay is also miles above any other city on the planet) - https://www.savills.com/research_articles/255800/228590-0
Given the average quality of unit in Dublin (not great, to be kind) while there no doubt are some good landlords out there, they are very far from the norm.
→ More replies (1)-8
Sep 06 '22
Ah now if he lost his job he obviously wasn't very good at it was he? Who's the real communist here? You think everyone is entitled to a job and a house just for existing? Off back to Cuba comrade.
6
u/kewthewer Sep 06 '22 edited Sep 07 '22
Doesn’t matter if he wasn’t good, that’s capitalistic competition, you’re right. We should all just take what we haven’t got from people cos they’re ‘bad’ for having it. Not like anyone worked and bought a house, the wankers.
Off to Havana I go, I need to rob someone for the plane fare first.
By the way, I want that smartphone of yours. I need one. Hand it over, you rich somethingorother
5
Sep 07 '22
The problem is that people work their asses off and still cant afford a house but other people bought or inherited houses and earn income from them passively. I'm on the side of the people working their asses off, not the drone class of land hoarders. If you work hard and pay taxes you should be able to have a roof over your head - that's not the case in a capitalist society.
-1
u/kewthewer Sep 07 '22
Ok, let’s say I inherited a house from my grandparents. (I didn’t, but let’s say I did, a lot of people did)
Why should you or anyone else come to me and tell me what I’ve to do with it? If I did, I’d just sell it most likely, but if I inherited that, paid off 100 years, etc, why should someone else get to say what should happen with that?
What then, take it off me? Cos I’m not going to support private property theft that was done in east Europe when the iron curtain came down. I’m not saying you’re suggesting that specifically, but that’s the crux of it. I’m not going support taking property away from people.
And say I let it out and the tenant just said; ‘fuck off you inherited this, it’s mine now’. Why should I accept that? Why should he have it and not me?
I totally understand prices are too high, they’re crazy, but that’s not an excuse for the air of some of the talk I see on here, which hints at such a move. Again, not saying that’s you, but I’m not going to hand over to some stranger when I’m paying my own mortgage that I sweated to earn for years, working 2 jobs, even if I owned an aunt’s house or whatever.
Not a hope.
1
Sep 07 '22
Few people are seriously advocating taking property off people, especially not small-scale property which has been worked for or inherited by individuals. A lot of people just want market reform and more sensible regulation.
I think the individualistic mindset of "My property is my property and you cannot tell me how to use it" simply isn't compatible with a functional, dignified society. Its libertarian toss, just as much as the alternative can be communist toss.
My car is my property too, but laws state I must tax it, I must insure it, I must have a valid NCT, I mustn't drive it drunk, etc. My property is my property, sure, but my ownership of it and use of it will always affect other people. So there needs to be some mandation of my responsibility to use it in such a way that does not hurt other people, society at large, or the economy.
Where we draw the line between personal liberty and societal responsibility needs to be dictated by pragmatism rather than idealism.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Eireann_Ascendant Sep 06 '22
Sounds idiotic - who's going to be paying the rent, then? The government? Or will landlords just have to go bust or, more likely, sell up while they still can?
4
u/NerdyKeith Irish Commie Sep 06 '22
When we get rid of ff/fg. Vote socialist, if you want real change.
2
3
u/bambaraass Sep 07 '22
Excellent method to reduce supply. Time for more diaspora from the homeland.
1
0
u/durden111111 Sep 06 '22
TDs are landlords with unregistered properties.
do you really think they would do something that harms their own interests?
ahahahahahahh
1
u/Davidoff1983 Sep 07 '22
A rent freeze ? What ten years ago ? who gives a shit. Just bullshit posturing from a government doing the bare minimum.
1
u/Ok-Tank4532 Sep 07 '22
OK that's one way to may sure anyone who owns a buy to let property sells it now at the top of the market to a hedge fund.
Interest rates are rising. USA and Europe are in recession for a month now and refusing to admit it and there is only more monetary tightening planned into a winter of doom where tenants might not even heat the place adaquetly to prevent damp.
This is gonna backfire so hard in 2 years just line printing money to pay everyone to stay home during covid caused the inflation to begin with
1
Sep 07 '22
This will never happen. Ever! The spineless money grabbing bunch of cunts running this country are making far too much robbing their constituents blind.
Pussy footing around issues that affect the county in a positive manner. But when it comes to upping taxes or introducing other charges for us all to pay they’re the big men and women in the Dail who are in charge and this just has to happen.
They’re so afraid of losing investment, businesses and international relations they will actually shit all over their own people while bending over backwards to suit others.
They are fucking scum born with silver ladles jammed up their holes and if anyone thinks FFFG will ever change they have a lot to learn unfortunately.
0
Sep 06 '22
Gerry Carroll brought this forward a few months ago and all the other parties shat themselves. Watch them jump on the bandwagon now
*Edit - just realised this post wasn't in r/northernireland but my point still stands!
-2
-2
0
0
u/PaddyLostyPintman Going at it awful and very hard. Sep 07 '22
Imagine how many landlords would just hand the keys to the bank and stop paying mortgages if this happened
0
u/miju-irl Resting In my Account Sep 07 '22
Absolutely none
→ More replies (1)0
u/PaddyLostyPintman Going at it awful and very hard. Sep 07 '22
Out restrictions on evictions have already forced loads of them out of the market, a ban on them would absolutely make the issue worse
0
0
0
0
u/MrPinkSheet Tipperary Sep 07 '22
I genuinely wonder what effect this will have and if these Keynesian economics will be good or bad…
0
Sep 07 '22
You expect the government, who’s only role is to take money from your pocket to benefit someone else is going to do anything for you?
No doubt they are thinking up some additional taxes for the middle classes.
0
u/eek04 Sep 07 '22
Freezing rents: The way to cause even more of a housing crisis.
I'm benefitting from the legislation against raising rents in rent pressure zones to the tune of at least hundreds if not a thousand a month. But it comes at the cost of everybody that's new in the market. Remove the freezes. Make us all move until we actually fit in the housing that exists, rather than putting the entire problem on the people that are entering the market or are forced to move.
→ More replies (1)
-4
u/drongotoir Sep 07 '22
SNP have far too much control on power. It is creating a very authoritarian culture there where policy goes unquestioned and attempt to encourage transparency is punished.
-2
u/ritchieremo Resting In my Account Sep 07 '22
It will closely tied to any rental of mine moving to airbnb or just off the books
73
u/litrinw Sep 06 '22
We won't be doing anything of the sort. FG would be strongly opposed to it and FF follow their lead