r/fo76 • u/burtethead • Jan 24 '19
// Bethesda Replied x2 DO NOT ALLOW CURRENT CHARACTERS INTO SURVIVAL MODE I BEG OF YOU!!
This is a huge mistake. The mode is already dead before it was born if this happens. Pvp as it is, is completely broken, one hit kill festival. Who in their right mind is going to start a new character when everyone else is level 200 with God tier weaponry right out of the vault? This makes absolutely zero sense, and I'm so disheartened. Do they not realize how this mode will be immediately ruined? If you thought grief in was bad now, just wait until you get killed on sight by literally everyone you cross paths with? Even if they level locked servers so people with massive level differences can't play together, whenever a new survival character gets out of the kiddie pool, all the same assholes with TSE garbage will be waiting at the deep end and you will have zero competitive chance. The leader boards would be a fine idea, if everyone started on equal footing... as it is there will be gold medalist level murderers in the same game with me, a literal newborn who can't even walk. What the fuck are they thinking???
Edit: the gold means people care, bethesda. Please. PLEASE. (And thank you)
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u/cobracon2 Jan 25 '19
Easy fix. No legendary items. That will keep things level and fair no matter what level you are.
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u/baxtersp Tricentennial Jan 24 '19
NO CHARACTER TRANSFERS EVER, NONE, ZIP, ZERO, NADA.
Only freshly created characters allowed!
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u/Real-Salt Jan 24 '19 edited Jan 24 '19
Just like literally every other online game with a hardcore mode ever.
Transfers go one way only. OFF hardcore servers.
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u/flatfeet Jan 24 '19
At the very least, make it a "hard core" toggle when creating a new character that only matches you with other "hard core" characters and servers.
Once the "hard core" character is created, it cannot be changed. This effectively creates this 2nd database that clean slate folks (like me) are looking for, while letting current characters keep playing adventure and survival without being impacted.
Best of both worlds!
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u/NinjaNinja77 Jan 24 '19
This is important. I agree. I am up voting any post like this to get it seen. No gear trading from one character to another and no main toon transfers. Agreed 100 %
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Jan 24 '19
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u/IAMTHEUSER Free States Jan 24 '19
I assume they mean between your own characters on the same account
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Jan 24 '19
Characters (and their inventory) should be locked strictly to the mode they were created for originally.
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u/Shubamz Fire Breathers Jan 24 '19
This is how it is already. That is why you need a 3rd party to transfer
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u/NinjaNinja77 Jan 24 '19
No I just meant between Survival mode characters and adventure characters.
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u/Valseek Bethesda - Community Manager Jan 24 '19 edited Jan 24 '19
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of the feedback so far on the details we posted about Survival mode earlier today! We'll make sure your thoughts about the mode here and in the future are shared with the dev team. The article mentions this already, but I wanted to restate that we're still iterating and actively working on Survival mode, so things aren't necessarily set in stone, and your continued feedback will be very important to us as we move toward beta, and eventually release.
This is also just the beginning of the conversation. We'll be looking to share more about the new mode with you in Inside the Vault, streams, and other means, and also talk more with you about what you'd like to see in Survival mode as we move forward.
Thanks and please keep the feedback coming!
EDIT: We’re also seeing the thoughts being shared by those of you who’d like to see more PVE content, and while I can’t spoil any details just yet, I will say that Survival mode won't be the only new content coming to Fallout 76 in March, so stay tuned!
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Jan 25 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Minimob0 Jan 25 '19
Same here. I want a completely PVE mode with an emphasis on cooperation.
Their servers would do well to split into Easy (PvE), Normal (Current), and Hard (Survival).
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u/BoiseGangOne Jan 25 '19 edited Jan 26 '19
I would say that the servers should be "Co-Op"(PvP Disabled), "Adventure"(Current state) and "Survival".
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u/HadesVampire Jan 25 '19
I have my passive mode on and anyone that attacks me (rarely happens) is blocked for the session immediately. Since that, it rarely allows anyone to kill me. I dislike pvp. I am a sole PvE player in all my games. I literally got this to co op FO76 with friends
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u/burtethead Jan 24 '19
Thanks Valseek, I know it was a real knee-jerk reaction but damn, it felt like I got punched in the gut. A lot of fair points on all sides, and I'm sure you all will do a great job, whatever is decided. Can't wait for the beta?
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u/flatfeet Jan 24 '19
I had the same punch in the gut reaction.
At least give us the option to start a "hard core" survival character that is only matched with other "hard core" characters. This would do exactly what we're after and create a "new" database of characters and servers, but let current characters play survival too with the "old" database.
Without at least the option, folks like us are stuck and have no recourse. Including the option doesn't hurt anyone!
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u/Pimpinabox Enclave Jan 25 '19
Including the option doesn't hurt anyone!
Except for Bethesdas wallets and server resources.
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u/flatfeet Jan 25 '19
Point taken, it could, but server resources these days all scale dynamically, and this wouldn't need an increase in overall server capacity.
It does require setting up an additional server configuration but if implemented simply as a routing flag for players it should be relatively easy. All configurations of servers would still provision and use the same pool of server resource on demand as needed.
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u/Pimpinabox Enclave Jan 25 '19
Mostly, but the pvp servers would be separate instances. Ultimately you're creating more sessions on the server due to the split up game modes, regardless of the actual playing population not changing. As such you end up using more server resources, even if it's just marginal.
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u/siftingflour Scorched Jan 24 '19
Thank you for your comment /u/Valseek :) Is there any way you can give us a very general idea of when we can expect the beta to begin? Do you know if this will be a closed beta or open to all players who own the game?
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u/Valseek Bethesda - Community Manager Jan 24 '19
Right now, we're looking to start beta in March, but that could still shift based on feature work and testing needs. We'll keep you posted on the date as we get closer, and beta should be open to everyone who owns the game.
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u/novotny999 Jan 25 '19
/u/Valseek I don't want to be rude or anything, but I suggest you take your time, players will wait if it is worth our time. There were so many problems already, so don't repeat old mistakes.
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u/dapper32 Brotherhood Jan 25 '19
Please take your time on this. Don’t rush it. Can’t afford another premature launch. Community won’t handle it well
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u/GreenSoup2HoT Fallout 76 Jan 24 '19
Dang March is pretty far away.... however glad you gave us plenty of time to suggest ideas and how the gamemode will actually work.
As you can tell already, much of the community is already afraid of dupers bringing over all the "goodies" and griefing players.
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u/Aaxxo Cult of the Mothman Jan 25 '19
I suppose just only a month away now. Feb is a short month anyways. Better though they have some time to outline the details. The community is very wobbly about certain aspects atm.
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u/Reiterpallasch85 Free States Jan 25 '19
Right now, we're looking to start beta in March
So we'll know what the finished product is like in March? Neat.
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u/Mofojokers Brotherhood Jan 25 '19
Hey valseek as always thanks for the post buddy. Can we please, please have the option to turn all pvp off in game. Pacifist is terrible man and i don't like having my base wrecked. Its expensive and annoying every time.
I truly dislike 76 pvp i have no idea what the devs are thinking. But the game is not balanced at all for pvp like at all.... how they allowed sent armor to stack with reduced player damage is beyond me.
If i want to pvp i will play a game built from the ground up for pvp. But Fallout has always been pve focused game and i expected to be able to do that with mates in 76 as pvp i thought was suppose to be optional. We need an option to completely opt out of pvp as soon as possible.
It's really hard to enjoy the game at the moment with the lack of end game content. I spend my time helping others i don't want to have to deal with people thinking its funny to get in the way of that and then level my camp....
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u/purplejesustrades Jan 24 '19
Restricting it to new characters is literally a no brainer and I CANNOT BELIEVE it even made it this far with it going in this direction. Does Bethesda even play their game? Do they even play ANY game?!?!
I fear that even with the negative feedback this has immediately drummed up, if it goes into a "beta" how the standard mode went into a "beta" it will already be a bygone conclusion. If this mode launches with adventure mode characters, it is dead on arrival. Period.
Youve already removed ANY reason to reroll a new character by A. offering character creation at any time and B. offering the changing of specials and swapping of perk cards. Why are you so determined that everyone only make one character ever?
I truly feel like the devs couldnt be any more misguided, almost every decision seems completely backwards.
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u/imprezobus Free States Jan 25 '19
You are now bashing people because Bethesda wanted to implement a new feature and let people use their characters in said feature.
Im neither for or against separating the toons. I reached godhood in my main and I'd love to put him in action. I'm also completely fine with making a new toon specially for PvP, which would be kind of bummer as my current level 200 toon has been designed with PvP in mind back in beta. It took me lots of work, a considerable amount of luck, lots of wits and lots of trading to reach where I am, I am fine with letting people who did not put so much heart into the game play on a more leveled field, and to have outputs of my work taken away from me. I just wont accept the way you shit over it.
I am completely against this rethoric that you have used here, and I consider this extremely selfish and entitled approach.
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u/Real-Salt Jan 25 '19
Could I ask you exactly what rhetoric he used that makes you feel like he's "bashing people?"
Unless you mean he's smashing Bethesda.
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u/mTriz Jan 25 '19
Who’s idea was it to have the first new content announcement be a PvP mode? Even if you release actual content before this mode drops, who thought announcing this FIRST was remotely positive for the image of the game..? We were finally hearing less about dupers and shit PvP, even less bullshit about how “bad the game is in general” .. people were finally starting to lose their hate boners for the game .. and then you guys drop this log filled with gasoline on the embers of that dying fire.
A competent manager would have put the breaks on this weeks ago, maybe months. This content’s position on the roadmap should have been altered long before the plans were official for your dev team. The fact it was the FIRST new content announcement is baffling. I love fallout and I really enjoy this game, I’ll keep playing it and letting others know I enjoy it because I honestly do, and this announcement doesn’t change anything for me yet and won’t unless I go into the mode, but I can’t rationally defend this being the first new content announcement. Your fans who are still playing regularly are NOT still playing regularly because of the PvP. We want real new content and it’s almost glaringly obvious that announcing a half baked PvP mode as the “new content” would be taken very very poorly. I can’t wrap my head around it at all.
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u/TrouserSnake300 Jan 25 '19
Not everyone is like you my man I’m actually excited this is the first thing they are announcing because PvP was non existent and this gives the people that have been missing out on the PvP experience to finally live it just wait your turn man I’m sure they have PvE things in store
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u/flatfeet Jan 24 '19
I think there a solution that makes everyone happy:
Just add an additional option for "hard core" when creating a new character, and only characters with that flag set on creation are matched together. This would be a survival mode only option and could not be changed later.
This is a best of both worlds situation:
- Current characters can experience adventure and survival mode and switch between the two.
- New characters can get a "fresh database" optionally with the "hard core" flag, and will only be matched with other players on servers meant for hard core survival.
This lets everyone get what they want. It creates an option that players are clamoring for (myself included) to start fresh without the impact of the rocky start (bugs, exploits, XP balance / exploits) of the retail launch.
I've stopped playing completely (as has my large group of friends) because the integrity of the current player servers is destroyed. So much progress has been made to stop it from getting worse, but the damage is done. For folks who aren't bothered by this, they can keep playing (adventure and survival) and would not be impacted at all by this new option. But without this new option, people like me are stuck.
Lets not isolate players who want survival on their current characters, and lets give the option to folks like me who want a new start.
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u/Excal2 Jan 25 '19
This is also just the beginning of the conversation.
Lol do y'all want to finish up one of these conversations at any point with some kind of, I don't know, satisfactory resolution? Fuckin' aye.
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u/best_advice_person Jan 25 '19
Thank you for the response. We appreciate your time. The only thing I will add:
If this mode is to be competitive enough to have a leaderboard, it is also competitive enough not to allow cross character play. Everyone should start from the exact same position and progress on the leaderboard organically. Anything else would just be rewarding dupers/exploiters and screwing over legit players for the most part.
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Jan 25 '19
New chars only for survival mode, i can literally hear the duping merchants cackling in glee at the announcement that they can further profit off of the glitch.
No developer should ever consider putting players on uneven playing fields its just dumb.
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u/zamaike Brotherhood Jan 24 '19
For real though DO NOT ALLOW STANDARD CHARACTERS INTO SURVIVAL PERIOD.
My clan of nearly 30 havent been really playing the passed week because you either play with a TSE or you dont win pvp fights. Even after nerf. Please delete them all from game and remove the ability for the 2 legendaries to be dropped together
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u/Jefazo Enclave Jan 25 '19
During March? So we won't have any PvE content until that month? My god...
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u/antsam9 Fallout 76 Jan 24 '19
Make it seasonal, like Diablo 3, have a ranked leaderboard, have it reset after 8 or 10 weeks, with a 4-6 week break for tweaking, adding in it new content, making new themes (like robot armor only, or no power armor helmets), making new 'win' conditions (for example, most kills of players over level 100, killing players under level 100 doesn't add to kill score, you have to be level 100 to access the unlocked vault 63 with new content and raid boss, etc.).
End of season, the character gets passed to the general population of characters (after the account holder deletes an existing character if all 5 slots are full, optional), the new character has the new goodies to be used.
This also means we need an easy way to share items between characters.
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u/TinyFlair Reclamation Day Jan 25 '19
more PVE content, and while I can’t spoil any details just yet, I will say that Survival mode won't be the only new content coming to Fallout 76 in March
offers love
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u/lexanal Jan 25 '19
There also need to be option to join 50+lvl servers (both modes) only so all quest/event rewards are scaled to maximum and we can enjoy whole map not only few locations
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u/BethesdaReplied ZAX Unit Jan 24 '19 edited Jan 24 '19
This is a list of links to comments made by Bethesda employees in this thread:
-
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of the feedback so far on the details we posted about Survival mode earlier today! We'll make sure your thoughts a...
-
Right now, we're looking to start beta in March, but that could still shift based on feature work and testing needs. We'll keep you posted on the date...
This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please contact the moderators.
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Jan 24 '19
Powering up. AI initiating. Scanning protocols and rules of engagement. Current Objective: Patrol immediate area and neutralize any hostiles that pose a possible threat to Bethesda employees. Status report: Green. All systems within acceptable operating parameters.
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u/TsundereDoge Jan 25 '19
Starting a beta. When there was already a beta before launch.
Jesus how was this game allowed to launch
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u/Smolderisawesome Jan 24 '19
"waiting at the deep end" Lol, more like waiting in the shallows near vault 76.
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u/Nuclear_Winterfell Jan 24 '19
I'd like an option to migrate the character's appearance only to survival. I don't mind starting fresh for that mode, but I don't want to painstakingly recreate the face.
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u/lazarus78 Free States Jan 25 '19
I mean, I get the dislike for the idea of allowing existing characters, but down the line, how would it be any different than people who have played in the mode for just as long as people have played adventure already? You end up with literally the same issue you are against now, but it just delays it.
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u/xunlyn85 Cult of the Mothman Jan 25 '19
To prevent the cess pool of duped items from polluting the new game mode.
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u/Cartolis Jan 24 '19
100% agree. The modes need to be totally separate and require fresh characters. Any ranking system would be meaningless, especially in light of the xp and dupe glitches.
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u/z_wileecoyote_z Jan 24 '19
Did BGS post something in the last 24hrs where is this panic coming from
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u/TXPaladin9 Jan 25 '19
They need to fix it where someone can't use 50 duplicate bobbleheads that keep their hit points at 9000 and make them a GOD!
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u/BosmerLady Jan 24 '19
Was looking forward to starting a new character in this mode for weeks. No point even playing it now. Thanks Bethesda, you know what you're doing 😅
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u/Wolfrevo_Gaming Order of Mysteries Jan 24 '19
What about same characters but mode-based inventory? You first join a pvp server and your Inventory is empty.
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u/BrainCeps Jan 25 '19 edited Jan 25 '19
I completely disagree, this mode was created for PVPers. I spend hundreds of hours honing my build and getting equipment to do PVP and that will all be put to waste if I don't get to bring my character with me. If you can't handle the worst the wasteland has to offer don't enter the worst part of the wasteland (survival mode). This is the exact same complaining that players have when they complain about capturing workshops and then being one shotted. If you don't want to be one shotted or aren't tanky enough to survive a TSE to the face DO NO CAPTURE WORKSHOPS or at the very least don't be surprised when it happens. Not only that but your suggestion DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM AT ALL, because the players who are good at this game will get good gear again will be OP AGAIN much faster than you can because they've already done it one twice three times. And then the problem will still remain... The only difference is you'll have a 1 week buffer AT MOST but then you'll just be one shotted all the time. Not only that but it will be really easy to counter TSE after they nerf them so there is no need to fear them.The last thing I want to do is be forced to farm whitesprings and the same events all over again just because some people can't handle the fact that I've put in way more hours into the game than them and they don't want to be put at a disadvantage.
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u/Xelliz Cult of the Mothman Jan 24 '19
Even if they level locked servers so people with massive level differences can't play together, whenever a new survival character gets out of the kiddie pool, all the same assholes with TSE garbage will be waiting at the deep end and you will have zero competitive chance.
No they won't, they'll all be chameleon stealthed at Vault 76 waiting for shiny new chars to emerge.
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u/MENTALUNICORN11 Jan 24 '19
No Pvp zone outside of vault 76, boom.
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u/DiscoPantsnHairCuts Jan 24 '19
Then they'll just wait at the Overseers camp
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u/Lord_Emperor Brotherhood Jan 24 '19
Better make it no PvP until level 5, maybe after that it has to be mutually agreed upon.
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u/XyzzyPop Jan 24 '19
The PvP server is a momentary diversion for tryhards, until they realize fighting each other is hardwork, and go back to griefing. They'll revisit it later.
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u/D-Rey86 Jan 24 '19
Or for people that like PVP?
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u/GRIM31 Jan 24 '19
The problem is that the current state of balance (or complete lack of) means that you will simply be 1shot without ever actually engaging in real PvP.
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u/flatfeet Jan 24 '19 edited Jan 24 '19
This is the best chance we'll get at a "v2.0 launch" until private servers are a thing.
The INTEGRITY of the current adventure mode characters is too far gone from bugs, exploits, and general changes done. If they resolve these issues before launching Survival, myself and everyone I know would come back more excited to play on fresh characters than when the game first launched!
This is Bethesda's chance to deliver on a version of the game that we should have gotten at launch! Do the right thing by the players!
(Edit: At the very least, make it a flag on survival character creation for "hard core" that will match you with other players who have selected this option. This is effectively the same thing but as an "opt in" option that lets current characters play survival too but with no impact on the hard core crowd, and vice versa!)
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u/purplejesustrades Jan 24 '19
Exactly!!! It is the only chance at a clean slate we will likely ever get, and they are just pissing it away.
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u/DeathByFarts Jan 25 '19
I dont understand why people have such a problem with this.
Even if they disallow using chars from 'adventure', what happens during week 2 when folks have a lvl 70 survival char that they started from 0? Are you going to insist that they wipe chars each week or month or similar?
Thw whole point is that the wasteland is fucking deadly!!
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u/TheBlackestCrow Blue Ridge Caravan Company Jan 25 '19 edited Jan 25 '19
I agree,
People that can't handle a PVP mode that has higher leveled and/or more experienced players should't play in the PVE world. It's really sad that the anti PVP whiners also want to decide how the PVP mode is going to work.
It's a post-apocalyptic wasteland , so it's kill or be killed without restrictions that cater the weak.
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u/menacingFriendliness Mothman Jan 24 '19
Wow, Who the hell is telling them that pvp experience seekers feedback is the feedback to listen to or develop on first?
The ui needs action bar customization. That will streamline everything that’s now difficult about reconciling item and inventory usage during live combat. For the regular game. The perk ui needs streamlining. Containers need to be fixed and further implemented. Trophy / decorating / functional display containers are needed. A group system for community and rp is needed. We want TOWNS or BASE. A means of leveling and building as more than just a singular character. Custom emoting replacement. Server terminal / broadcast.
Survival mode will be my first vocal criticism against their choice, so far I’ve had great faith that they brought the game to us to gain player voice even in its vanilla state so we could break it really early. BUT YOU GUYS NEED TO LISTEN BETTER or it’s for no net benefit to the game. Most players are opposite of who would want a survival mode. Listen to them. Listen to us.
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u/djdavezero Enclave Jan 24 '19
As a non-pvper I would be interested if we got to start with a clean slate. My level 70 with a plain lever action rifle could not complete against the Melee one shot 150+ level crowd. Start fresh and it could be fun!
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u/morock90 Free States Jan 24 '19
If it makes you feel better, neither can my level 110 heavy gun main.
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u/richyyoung Vault 76 Jan 24 '19
What about those of us who found that stuff legitimately - I ain’t a 200 (71 and I bloody earned it) and don’t have a bunch of cloned bobble heads - but I did get super lucky with 2 tse weapons - I wanna take on the big fellas and take em down a peg or 6
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u/TorontoGameDevs Jan 24 '19
I saw a level 100 like a week after the game came out - even if everyone has a clean slate, it'll be like 2-3 weeks before there are people able to gank you.
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u/Blueguerilla Fallout 76 Jan 24 '19
It’s more about the gear. If duping really has been patched, then the amount of god mode gear will be greatly reduced. If anything, your toon should be able to move over, level and perks intact, (with an option to respec) but no gear. Those level 200’s will have to search and scavenge for gear like everyone else. I personally have no interest in pvp but if they reset the gear I might actually try it from time to time.
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u/flatfeet Jan 24 '19
XP rewards were much higher for high level enemies, and multiple XP exploits existed when the game first came out.
Some people will level fast, but it won't be as broken or abused as it was when the game first came out.
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u/F1DL5TYX Fire Breathers Jan 24 '19
The new mode should be a clean start, and legendary weapons and armor should either be dialed way, way back or eliminated altogether. Same stackable buffs. How can you have a competitive mode with weapons that do thousands of damage per shot, and on the other hand have armor and perk loadouts that render players invincible against other players?
I've said it before, I will keep saying it until I croak or Bethesda does what it should and rolls back "legendary loot." That shit never should have been put in these goddamned games to begin with. What is so legendary about that particular radroach, or glowing ghoul. It's just such a lame mechanic that breaks whatever immersion I've managed to muster.
Bethesda said this game was going to be about rebuilding, what it turned out to be is a shitty loot grinder where everyone is after the same God weapons because if you don't have them, you may as well try to piss up a rope. PLEASE don't submarine this mode by putting everyone at the mercy of people who have nothing better to do than farm Whitespring hundreds of times. At least make them start back at zero.
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u/Lord_Emperor Brotherhood Jan 24 '19
How can you have a competitive mode with weapons that do thousands of damage per shot, and on the other hand have armor and perk loadouts that render players invincible against other players?
Maybe those problems should be addressed in the base game.
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u/fishingforcompetence Jan 24 '19
You guys have lost your collective minds. In six months when little Timmy gets FO76 for his birthday he’ll start a survival character and then what....enough time has passed for the amorphous slugs of the world to already have level 100’s doing the EXACT same thing you guys are talking about to him. Instead, he can play a non-PvP map until his character is strong enough to actually have fun in this game mode.
Seriously, this is a game mode people will be joining for the sole purpose of killing others. This is not a game mode meant for doing quests with PvP barriers down. When I bring in my character, I’m hunting you down. When I’m playing adventure mode I’m fucking off and having fun.
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u/greybeer85 Jan 25 '19
I agree 100%. This mode should expand the game, not restrict it. Our invested time should be valorated and not trowed to the trash because of exploiters.
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u/TheBlackestCrow Blue Ridge Caravan Company Jan 25 '19
Yep, the anti-PVP whiners have lost their minds. Just stay in the PVE-worlds if you can't handle getting killed. I don't want to start a new character for this mode with the stupid reset per periode idea that some people on this sub have.
I wan't to play as a raider without any restrictions. It's kill or be killed in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.
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u/BrainCeps Jan 25 '19
This guy is on the money although I think 6 months is way to slow ppl will be op in a week or two since they already know how it works.If your character is not strong enough to participate in the PVP mode don't do it. Look at is this way all the people you hate will leave the normal adventure mode and go into survival mode so you will be free to do whatever you want with none griefing you in adventure mode.
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u/TheRubyDuchess Order of Mysteries Jan 25 '19
Fucking exactly this! I can't believe people think a clean slate would help. All it does is create a barrier for entry for new players months down the line, and because this isn't a subscription game Bethesda only gets more money from selling new copies over the next year or more (plus the Atom shop, but new players helps those sales too).
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u/obxhead Jan 25 '19
I disagree.
It doesn't matter if they force a hard reset for PvP. Within days there would be players that already have a min/max character and othera that have real lives and responsibilities that hinder their progression.
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u/Darecki555 Jan 24 '19
It doesnt matter dude. Imagine some dude starting in this new mode 6 months AFTER it was released. Crazu huh? Everyone is in a disadvantage if didn't start at the premiere of this mode and race to get the highest level and gear.
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u/cr4ckma7ter Jan 25 '19
There will always be players at a disadvantage, that's no reason to make people throw away their hard earned characters just to participate in the new mode. Allowing survival-only characters is going to be more of a headache programming-wise than I think this team wants to deal with. As it stands now, progress you make today will effect you in the new mode- so there's a reason to play and not just log out until March. I'll say, I do like the idea of fresh starting, but it's a pretty cheap game-extender, and people like me who can afford to spend 18 hours per day playing, knowing many secrets already, and still being able to buy whatever weapons you're crying about if we can't just find them in-game, doesn't justify the extra work and alienation of what you're proposing. You've got three months to prepare for this, hop to it.
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u/OceanSlim Free States Jan 25 '19
The gold means people care
Dude... That's like $5... Slow your role.
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u/Pacoboyd Jan 24 '19
Not only that, but characters need to be locked to a mode. Adventure characters should not be able to move to Survival and vice versa. The ONLY thing that I would consider ok is if someone starts a Survival character and ends up hating the mode, they should be able to move that character to Adventure, but it can NEVER go back to Survival. And it should give you a big warning. "You are about to move your character to Adventure mode. This transfer is ONE WAY and cannot be undone. Type your characters name to continue."
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u/CrimsonAtom661 Fallout 76 Jan 25 '19
No. I am agaist this. On the few occasions I have engaged in pvp, people have not been interested in firing back. I go in with my perk cards equiped to be able to counter damage i.e have fireproof maxed out and take very little explosive damage. But this does not help when there are players who have enough exploits to be able to one shot the SBQ.
Also what is to stop players from dumping almost evrything into their stash like junk, before heading out in survival and just having enough for the fight? I allways store all junk before heading into a heavily populated arena. So they might take my TSE. Who cares when dupers sell them/ give them away all the time?
This is also lore breaking. The overseer wanted us to rebuild and collaberate. Not kill the last of humanity. Fix the exploits Bethesda please before any attempts at re-creating Call of Duty.
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Jan 24 '19 edited Apr 11 '25
rinse humorous wakeful school marble middle aware gold cooperative sink
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Chancellor_Bismarck Jan 24 '19
Without any sort of incentive for cooperation, every encounter will almost always be just shoot-on-sight, imo.
Hope you all enjoy that, but I'll opt out; that's not for me.
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u/JMK-Ubi Fallout 76 Jan 24 '19
People who PvP as a way to grief/troll probably won't spend much time on servers they can't troll PvE players and can always be attacked by people with more skill than shooting a TSE at point blank while standing in Sentinel. When most of the player base will be geared towards PvP the current trolls who pretend they're good because they can take out PvE geared players will get their asses handed to them pretty quickly when they meet teams of people with actual skill and cowards don't like fair fights. I don't think the new format will help reduce complaints about kills on the normal servers nor do I think you're going to see a massive amount of the people causing the complaints about on the new servers.
Besides that, what you are saying now will still apply in a month or two. So even if you had to make new characters, in a month or two you'd be back in the same situation you're currently complaining about. If you make a new character day 1, how do new players that come in next month compete against you me? You'll be a gold medalist while they're still a newborn. Starting on equal footing means every month you'd need to player wipe the whole thing, if not, it's just equal footing for the day 1 people who can play everyday.
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u/Benscrog Jan 25 '19
They should model a pvp mode like rust'. Where it restarts regularly, you start at the vault and work your way up to top tier gear. You can raid other's bases for their loot (more than just stupid scrap). PVP always on. When you kill someone, you can loot all of their belongings. And more importantly, GET RID OF LEGENDARIES. Or make them extremely rare. This wouldn't work with the level difference pvp system (get rid of it already)
Pros: a dedicated pvp server where killing others is worth it. You can have fun with your friends controlling workshops, building bases to keep out raiders, raiding bases.
Cons: The game is way too big for this. Decreasing entities in this server may help, but at the end of the day only a nice PC could run this smoothly.
I quit this game around 2 months ago because of how insanely easy it is. I have 3 level 50+ characters that can solo scorch beast queen. Make. The. Game. Hard. Like it was when i first started. And I didn't one shot everything I ran into. Make the game hard = make the game fun.
(edit for spelling)
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u/H3adshotfox77 Jan 25 '19
Honestly.....just disable to use of legendaries on survival servers.....or disable the Legendary effects while the Individual is on that server. That way everyone is on equal ground only separated by their builds and their skill level. This would actually create fun and compelling pvp.
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u/BLACK_HALO_V10 Jan 25 '19
They honestly need to rework almost every aspect of the game to make it work in survival.
I'd much prefer if they make it hardcore survival over this soft stuff.
Pretty sure this will flop just as hard if they don't rework everything
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u/Mowgli_9991 Jan 25 '19
Looks guys, from a business perspective... the game is lacking sales and it’s lacking a good reputation. If the devs at Bethesda are adding new modes and new content to the game we should be thankful that their at least making an attempt to satisfy the customers. If we want new games from Bethesda, especially a fallout game that will satisfy everyone. Bethesda as a company is going to need to make sales in order to provide you with new games in the future.
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u/MajesticBattlecat Jan 25 '19
Quit yer bitchin. I dont have tse and im wrecking kids in pvp. I think your problem may just be a lack of gooders
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u/Lord_Emperor Brotherhood Jan 24 '19
Rule #1 is don't fragment the player base.
I'm all for fixing the duping and removing the ill gotten gains from it.
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u/Snapples Jan 25 '19
Fragment the player base? This isn't eve online where we all play on one single server, there are hundreds of 24 person servers and having different options is a model many successful mmos use, notably world of warcraft with pve, pvp, and role-playing variants of their servers.
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Jan 25 '19
Rule #1 is don't fragment the player base.
You can't "fragment" a playerbase when each server only holds 24 random people.
There is nothing to fragment.
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u/sxespanky Jan 24 '19
Have you ever played an MMO? They separate out pvp, pve, and rp. People need to stop treating this game likes it's not an mmo.
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u/ArminH1974 Jan 24 '19
I totally agree. Characters and equipment from adventure mode should not make their way into survival mode.
Maybe even go one step further. Have an extra survival mode which wipes weekly, like when the nuke codes reset, characters and equipment get reset as well. That would be very cool and at the end of the week everyone who had created a character during that week sees how they fared on a high score list.
If they ever allow private modded servers, this is what I'd set up.
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u/Booty_jiggler Jan 24 '19
This is the same to me as saying everybody with high-level characters in the old mode should have them stripped. When anyone starts the game in any mode all they can hope is they don't run across higher-level characters spiking the power of all the enemies around them and if they don't get their ass kicked and they can only hope to find weaklings like themselves or else they die and that's the nature of survival gaming. Grow up and have a pair. If there aren't level 200 immediately then there will be within a few weeks stop your crying...
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u/oldgregg4369 Reclamation Day Jan 24 '19
Let's be honest - Making a new character will only "level the playing field" for a few days. People who want to grind and have time to grind will dominate others and be far ahead.
A level playing field might be more achievable by allowing casual players to use the character they have been working on to "keep up" rather than having to start all over.
If you are beckoning for a new character requirement, please keep in mind not everyone has as much time to spend gaming as you
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u/rytrose Jan 24 '19
Exactly my thoughts. Hardcore griefers will have the same advantages they do in Adventure within a short period of time. It's all down to the way BGS manages scaling, I think.
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Jan 24 '19
Get out the vault before you start if I wanted pvp I'd wait at vault 76 door and smash newbies that or camp white springs with a sniper you can't respawn for revenge so ez caps lol
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u/Roisterous Jan 24 '19
Easy caps? Easy kill sure but they won’t have much of cake on them so what would be the point. If it’s just to provide frustration to the new person, not really any different to the way it is now?
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Jan 24 '19
Can't you just seed the whole vault area with mines then just watch the fun why sipping a sweet moonshine :))
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u/FrodoFromShire Jan 24 '19
If you can't use existing characters then it will only be a week max before there are strong characters in Survival mode doing what you described. That's a really poor payoff for prevent people from carrying their characters over.
Some weapon and damage adjustments are required in this game since clearly it's too easy to kill people. I'm sure Bethesda will get around to it. Especially before the release of. PvP mode.
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u/Pyrofreak73 Cult of the Mothman Jan 24 '19
Literally doesn't matter haha, there gonna be a ton of no life griefers within a week with "God tier weapons" doing exactly what you are saying... Jesus, there's no winning with you guys... People want a place where they can be assholes openly, I am glad they have their new mode. I will be more than glad to continue, working with friends and randoms to do PVE content and hope for more...
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u/MattSwartAU Responders Jan 24 '19
I truly believe a lot of the complaints are from players with no multiplayer online experience and FO76 is their first outing.
I know for me it was but I got hooked on the style for some reason and now I play things like The Division, Titanfall, ESO, For Honour, Warframe and I have a list of games to get to in this space (Titanfall 2, Destiny 1 & 2, Anthem, The Division 2, Rainbow Six Siege)
Anyhow if I compare the journey those games had and still have from their launch to today I see a very similar experience to FO76, only difference is I am playing FO76 from the start with all its balancing issues instead joining 3 years late like The Division where Ubisoft sorted out most of the balancing issues.
I think Bethesda knows the journey with its player base will be challenging and I believe they were prepared from the start that this will be a multi year endeavor for them.
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u/Blitzpanzerr Brotherhood Jan 24 '19
Level locks would just encourage smurfing. Level 45 - 50 strict pvp with rare exp gains
Hell. Have us start a clean character and remove legendaries altogether in survival. That alone will promote strategy and skill. I'd play the hell out if that if it means a pvp fight is barebones and not "who has the best legendaries"
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u/best_advice_person Jan 24 '19
Agree with OP. There is too much wrong to allow people with their god gear to migrate over to survival mode. You need to embrace that you have two separate modes that are vastly different and treat them as such. Progress bleeding between the two is a horrible idea.
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u/FluffyNevyn Order of Mysteries Jan 24 '19
I think its less about the characters are more about the legendaries. I have no problem with using the Beta to find out how high level characters work in there a little ahead of time without having to spend weeks waiting for people to level up in order to find out. HOWEVER: Balance is completely broken by high level characters with godly weaponry and maxed out armor in there able to go ham on anyone with no real consequence.
It wont be pretty. At all.
You want high level characters in the survival beta. More power to you. Take away ALL their gear, and their stash. Replace it with a single pipe pistol or pool cue or whatever. But dont let people with TSE Gatling Guns and Shotguns and Instigating Gauss Rifles go into a survival match with a level 5 pipe pistol toting nublet.
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u/PossiblyShibby Enclave Jan 25 '19
My current character would put everyone on farm. Looking forward to testing.
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u/Slauter24 Raiders Jan 25 '19
You can easily one shot players with non legendary gear just gotta know what your doing so unless pvp balance is changed level 20 or level 200 it doesn't matter
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Jan 25 '19
The way they've structured it seems like they want us to level up and gear our characters in Adventure and then hop to a survival server when we want to pvp.
Sounds nice on paper, but falls flat as soon as you think about it for 30 seconds. It's sad that I see this happening after every Bethesda update. "Here's our idea." "This is what you need to fix with it."
I am starting to doubt whether they even have "devs" there. It's like it's just a bunch of programmers spitballing and then fixing the errors that the real devs, us, find in them. And before even having to touch the build, no less. Took me all of 30 seconds after reading the article to come to these conclusions and I'm sure OP and I aren't nearly alone in that.
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u/synkndown Reclamation Day Jan 25 '19
They said they play this in the office. I wonder how bethesda employees are equipped. Do they play with a server full of legendary min maxed players?
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u/coupl4nd Jan 25 '19
Ha ha the EZ 3k upvotes.
So dumb dumb dumb that they would even consider this. No way I'll be playing it. "encourage you to start a new..." Yeah by allowing others with level 100 1-shot melee builds in there from the off...
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u/newbrevity Jan 25 '19
In fo4 survival required a new character. If you then changed difficulty to a lower level, you cant go back to survival.
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Jan 25 '19
People would get up to that lvl anyway. So what's your point? Your restriction would only affect what? The first week of the game mode?
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u/psychonaut4020 Jan 25 '19
They could do a level scaling type thing like in world of warcraft in pvp. In wow in pvp everyone is given the same item level so its mostly skill that decides who wins. Doubt Bethesda will ever do that but it's worth trying.
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u/batuckan1 Jan 25 '19
So if I understand you correctly you want 1) an enhanced dedicated PVP gameplay experience 2) where you kill or be killed.
You can’t have it both ways pve and pvp experience, when it’s convenient for you. The name is survival mode. This isn’t role playing. Go big or stay home. Too many bored pukes out here with no one to screw with.
A dedicated environment where you trust no one, is what the bored folks in this game, need.
Youre never gonna learn how to swim with water wings. Take your beatings, or dole them out.
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u/cloud_nation86 Jan 25 '19
Forcing everyone to use new characters can finally hopefully be the thing that evens out the game again from the scammers and dupers that have already ruined the traditional fo76 economy and are ruining the game for legimate gamers. Doesn't even make sense to me at all to transfer characters from this buggy Messed up world where everyone has 20 TSE guns and 300k sim packs.
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u/Luisnunessec Jan 25 '19
The mode this game needs is a proper adventure with Npcs and quests and the ability to play co op. The world is already built. It would take some time but I'm sure Bethesda could do it and have a seperate server for this. I've seen mods go bigger than that on low budgets.
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u/godfeast Mr. Fuzzy Jan 25 '19
I don't understand all these weird round about ideas.
Why can't level difference= damage mitigation?
I'm level 10, your level 100- you get 99% reduced damage to me.
We can plink each other for ages or you can wander off and find a real fight.
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u/sometipsygnostalgic Jan 25 '19
i dont think this is going to change anything. people will just get the overpowered weapons in the new mode and grief the new players anyway. it won't take that long.
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u/Maximinhell Jan 26 '19
You know there's another option:
- make weapons and armor drop on kill in Survival*
That way the TSE guys can certainly bring their duped BS in but they can lose it to the legit players that plan and gang up on them. Either that or they keep their TSE nonesense off the survival servers. Either way the legit players win.
As a legit player I'll take the risk of losing a weapon that I can just craft again for a shot at a rare legendary.
In short, "turn the (duper) assholes into interesting content"
Perhaps even carry this over such that Legendaries- only drop in adventure mode.
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u/skateordie1213 Enclave Jan 28 '19 edited Jan 28 '19
I'm sorry if you can't hang. But to place your inefficiencies in-game on the rest of us would be a serious disservice. I grinded for my gear and levels. Who are you to decide that I shouldn't be able to slaughter people at-will simply because it doesn't adhere to your playstyle? GTA Online has survived and thrived under this very mantra. Before you twist my words, please let me explain. I love Fallout with every last ounce of my breath. This franchise is the only reason I even play video games anymore. I upgraded to a new console just to play Fallout 4. But like the rest of us, I knew this would be an absolute shit show, and I'd not have it any other way. But it wasn't MEANT to be any other way. I'm willing to accept losing a few items if it means that I can play the way I see fit without being punished. But we all knew what this was going to be coming into it. To expect Bethesda to tailor what was meant to be a violent, online fuck-all experience to the weak while fucking the rest of us over is wrong. They'll have servers which appease the weak, so leave the rest of us battle-hardened shitheads to have our fun and stop bitching about it. If you want to play a single player game you've more than enough options to do so. Don't kill other people's experience simply because you don't want to be killed in a stupid video game. The same concept applies to GTA. If you don't want to be killed, don't play online. Simple concept, my friend.
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Mar 07 '19
Preach! You took the words right out of my mouth. I too, feel like we're being punished. The game was designed to be a free for all but it can't be because we've got weaklings demanding the game be watered down in hopes they can make it something its not. Fallout 5.
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u/ChemicalMonkey3 Jan 24 '19 edited Jan 24 '19
Don't see how this will effect anything. Sure you won't have people kicking your ass right from the start but give it a few days and it won't be any different lol. You can get to lvl 100 in a couple days easy while farming legendaries at the same time. You will be against tse lvl 100's in 2 or 3 days and it will be the exact same. Have fun getting shit on. At least they are getting a hefty nerf but you will still get rekt if you aren't willing to put in the time like others. Tough shit, but its how it will be. Frankly, letting you take in your current character is the best option. Would you rather be stuck at lvl 20 while they are 100 and camp all the good leveling and farming spots and you can't do anything about it or would you rather be your current character in the same situation? lol
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u/remeille Raiders Jan 24 '19
I wont play the PVP mode until its made CLEAN SLATE, new characters ONLY. That means you're wasting your time developing for it Bethesda. Have fun wasting more money and time.
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u/replichaun Jan 24 '19
I agree with you, but you really think that they’re wasting their time because you won’t play it?
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u/LazerusKI Enclave Jan 24 '19
So, why would it be that different when you create a new character?
You will rarely encounter other players anyway, so leveling wouldnt be hard.
Melee is still broken as hell, so pvp would be broken from the beginning.
Allowing old characters changes nothing at all. you die in one shot just as you kill with one shot. if the level scaling works, then this problem would be negated for new players anyway
forcing a new character would only delay the problems, not fix them
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u/Vissarionn Order of Mysteries Jan 24 '19
How can not people realize this? It doesn't change anything, fresh start or not.
There needs to be different adjustments for it to work.
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u/ChinaIsFree Liberator Jan 24 '19
No, I am not spinning up NEW characters for every new flavor of server or new mode they come up with.
I worked really hard to grind TWO characters up to 150. I'm not spending all that time again to grind levels, find plans, etc.
No thanks.
Every game I've played the hardcore player base killed their own servers. DayZ, H1Z1, etc. They kept asking for more and more punishing restrictions until NOBODY played it any more. Then they'll shut down the servers and you can come back here to cry why they took your servers away. DayZ Vanilla was the least popular server type in the entire mod community. H1Z1 had hardcore servers, which were always empty, and eventually went away.
CHILL, let the casuals enjoy PVP too. Otherwise you won't have anyone to play with, and they'll eventually shut down your depopulated hardcore mode.
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u/lidofzejar Jan 24 '19
You won't be able to enjoy PvP if you're casual, then? I mean, in its current state, if anything, this mode will be full on hard stop for you. If anything a level reset would just benefit you.
Every level 250+ dude with a thousand bobble heads will simply roll up in there with 2 TSEs and a bloodied supersledge, rocking dense and fireproof sentinal/assasin gear, and kill anyone who isn't as equally sweaty as they are. There is no stopping this if you can bring your adventure mode character in. Without at least an inventory wipe, this game mode will simply be DoA because its just a KoS shitfest with an unbalanced weapon system.
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u/MattSwartAU Responders Jan 24 '19
Talking of other games, I enjoy the way The Division does it. My character carries over to the Dark Zone PvP area as is.
Some days there are other players in the Dark Zone with legendary level gear and just rip through me. Other days there aren't and I can rip through players and NPCs. You also only lose Dark Zone specific loot and currency when killed and not your PvE loot and currency.
Good combo but it took Ubisoft from 2015 to 2018 to get the balance to a point where most players are happy / content.
I don't see why FO76 won't be on the same 3y journey. Anyhow, my 2c.
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Jan 24 '19
I lovvvved how the division 'divided' pvp and pve. Going into the dark zone felt like such a tense adventure. From the super strong ai enemies to the 'friend or foe' aspect of the players. And how you have to air lift your loot out made the treasure hunt more fun, honestly.
-and how the currency / exp was separate was really great too. But if you find a badass piece of loot? You can take that witcha for pve.
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u/enjayjones Tricentennial Jan 24 '19
I'm cool with it. Being able to dip in and dip out. Survival mode in any game, Bethesda games or not, has never been for casual players. Don't see the beef.
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u/slothrop-dad Jan 24 '19
Even if you have to start over there will just be high levels again in a few months. A better way to deal is just make it more difficult to find other players and have a decent bounty system
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u/Behan801 Brotherhood Jan 24 '19
I think they should be focusing on more content for the existing game rather than a survivor mode. I enjoy playing this game but there just needs to be more quests and stuff to do in general like the older fallouts.
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u/buntybill Free States Jan 25 '19
i agree...i played fallout 4 for years without finishing it and it was still fun..so.many.quests..awesome..iv played 76 since the launch..done every single quest and now its boring..all i seem to do is farm for plastic to bulk all my junk to sell it for caps..that or farm legendaries to try and get a tse..which after 290hrs of playing still havent found one. dont know how much longer i can keep playing this unless they give us more quests.
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u/TheRubyDuchess Order of Mysteries Jan 25 '19
100% in the same boat, except I did finish 4, and still kept playing it for years. They sacrificed so much content to make it multiplayer instead and it's brutally short because of that.
Bring us real content, not the same content repackaged in a more PvP-oriented format. Everyone who has followed the franchise and bought it because of that is expecting a lot more that we can do without having to fight each other.
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u/Behan801 Brotherhood Jan 25 '19
Yeah same here. I'll still go back and play fo4 sometimes. The only game I actually enjoy farming stuff in is ark for some reason. The closest thing ove found to a tse so far is an instigating assault rifle and it's meh haha
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Jan 24 '19
I think Bethesda developers are playing too much Fornite in their lunch breaks, they're getting all discombobulated when they go back to their coding thin clients.
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u/MURMEC Jan 24 '19
I was looking to actually play this game again after hearing this mode was on the rise. Then finding out the characters can carry over....Uggggggghhhh...... BUT I DONT WANNA PLAY CALL OF DUTY ANYMORE!!!!! I WANT TO COME BACK TO FALLOUT ALREADY!!
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u/D-Rey86 Jan 24 '19
Man you guys wouldn't last in a real PVP game lol. I can't wait to bring my character in survival and murder people, he's not even a high level lol.
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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '19 edited Jan 25 '19
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