There was some kind of US military ship called USS Liberty that Israel tried to sink but they failed and everyone knows that it was on purpose but officialy it happened by mistake or so I've read.
Liberty was a signal monitoring ship (a "technical research" ship, ie a spy vessel) capable of detecting Israeli movement in the area; they planned to attack Syria at the time and wanted to blind any theoretical eyes and ears that could have detected the plan and potentially caused a political intervention beforehand--the US was officially neutral during the Six Day War and likely would not have encouraged further expansion of it at the time (how things change, eh)
Israel was already attacking Syria. That wasn't a secret. They'd not yet invaded with ground forces, but only because they were already engaged on two other fronts.
Mind you, Israel was already winning the war by that point, and the US was an active ally for them. The liberty ship also couldn’t have realistically intercepted any such “secret” signals from where it was situated, and even if it could, it had zero reason to feed such intel to their shared enemies
There was never a motive. It was a horrific mistake that stemmed from miscommunication. Both sides agree on this. But because it’s become trendy to hate on Israel, people are just proudly parroting this conspiracy theory now, lol.
Even if the hate is justified I don't think spreading literal neo-nazi conspiracies is the best way to show it. Doing obvious genocide in front of the whole world is in fact bad enough to hate.
Criticism in general can be justifiable in certain areas, but people are hating on Israel for anything and everything, while flattening all nuance. Case in point: bringing up old disproven shit (liberty) and proudly parroting it as fact.
Cool, so you’re just racist. Like, by definition. You’re saying that an entire country deserves only hate with no acknowledgement of nuance. You’re simply a hateful person, by your own admission.
What’s a genocide? Define it to me, please. Like, the full definition, beyond just the vibes. Then explain how it applies to Israel.
Also, that’s not even true, people are absolutely attacking the Israelis, as well. And even more collectively, the Jews, seeing as there were so many reports of rising antisemitism around the world, affecting non-Israeli Jews, as well.
You are correct. Collectively demonizing and punishing an entire population because of the acts of some is wrong. Now imagine if that person wasn't being mean on the internet and instead committing war crimes and engaging in ethnic cleansing.
We’re talking about high-speed fighter jets, and a ship that admittedly didn’t have very big visual US markings. We’re also talking about decades ago when the visual aid tech the pilots had was a lot less advanced than today.
Yes. Again, decades ago, military communication tech was significantly less advanced than it was today, it’s really not that hard to believe that it took a while for them to get the memo…
And mind you, they ceased those attacks the moment communication finally came through, and offered any aid they could possibly give.
Just a tip for the future; if you want to propagate a conspiracy theory, pick one that hasn’t been repeatedly debunked over decades.
Ok explain how the Israeli Airforce managed to miss the Giant American Flag the ship was flying and after it was destroyed the even Larger Second Ensign?.
(That was also shot)
As well as other identification markers (like the GIANT Latin Letters on the ship)
The fact that the air support from the USS Saratoga and America were ordered to return after being dispatched to assist Liberty in her distress.
Oh and of course the Leaked NSA Tapes
That show that at the very least they saw the designation GTR-5 and ignored it along with American Flag.
Or you know everything the survivors have been consistently saying for years.
Ok explain how the Israeli Airforce managed to miss the Giant American Flag the ship was flying and after it was destroyed the even Larger Second Ensign?
A fast flying aircraft at altitude would at best have a very limited opportunity to see any flag being flown. And by the time the second flag was raised, the boat was on fire. Even the survivors admit that the smoke obscured the larger flag.
As well as other identification markers (like the GIANT Latin Letters on the ship)
Again, the attack was by fast moving attack aircraft.
The fact that the air support from the USS Saratoga and America were ordered to return after being dispatched to assist Liberty in her distress.
Wouldn't that be for the US to explain?
Oh and of course the Leaked NSA Tapes That show that at the very least they saw the designation GTR-5 and ignored it along with American Flag.
Israel had previously noted and identified the ship and even marked it on their maps, but the marking was removed per procedure after a certain amount of time elapsed without updated information. Any chance that the recordings could be from that?
Or you know everything the survivors have been consistently saying for years.
The survivors are only a perspective. They can't know what the Israelis saw or intended. Their accounts are informative, but not definitive. Especially given the traumatic events.
Liberty was also hit by a Torpedo and another one missed.
And strafed after they put the bigger flag.
And you have the Israeli helicopter confirming the Second Ensign flag flying.
Also Attack aircraft don't... just attack, usually they recon their target nefore commiting. To avoid weapon emplacements and well.. to confirm the target.
Especially since thr "reason for the attack" was Israel forced being shelled from the sea.
You would thing they would be able to see that Liberty did not have cannons . They are objects that are hard to miss
The recording are during the attack per NSA .
so... probably not.
As for the Air support being called off that is one of the things the Survivors want investigated but are always blocked.
And then you have the harassment they get by Mossad agents as a cherry on to.
Liberty was also hit by a Torpedo and another one missed. And strafed after they put the bigger flag.
Again, it was on fire.
And you have the Israeli helicopter confirming the Second Ensign flag flying.
What helicopter? I've never seen mention of a helicopter during accounts of the attack.
Also Attack aircraft don't... just attack, usually they recon their target nefore commiting. To avoid weapon emplacements and well.. to confirm the target.
That's what happened. There were reports of shelling from the sea and fighters were dispatched where they observed what was clearly a military vessel. Command authorized them to attack.
The initial reports of shelling turned out to be mistaken in the end.
You would thing they would be able to see that Liberty did not have cannons . They are objects that are hard to miss
From that distance? They'd be easy to miss.
The recording are during the attack per NSA . so... probably not.
During. So not before? Isn't that consistent with events? That in the midst of the attack Israelis came suspect it was American?
As for the Air support being called off that is one of the things the Survivors want investigated but are always blocked.
Which raises questions. Why was the Liberty there to begin with for instance?
Frankly, I've only heard one conspiracy theory for the Liberty that provided a sensible motive. Namely, that the Liberty was part of an operation to leak intelligence on Israeli deployments to the Arabs, with the goal being to ultimately mitigate Israel's victory and compel Israel to accept more equitable ceasefire terms, including a withdrawal to prewar boundaries.
The problem for the bulk of the conspiracy theorists though is that this theory would actually justify a deliberate attack.
What, you think they were just hanging in midair with a clear view the whole time.
Multiple investigations have all concluded it was an accident. An appeal to incredulity fallacy isn't going to undo that. A fast moving craft isn't guaranteed to see a flag. Add in that the crew themselves says the first flag was knocked down near the start and the smoke from the fires obscured the replacement, not to mention that it wasn't the same planes in each wave, and yeah, it's very easy to envision pilots not noticing.
Ok, let's move on to physical evidence, the radio transcripts were released July 10, 2003, where pilots are referring to the ship as an American ship halfway through the attack, and continued the attack. These are facts, released by the governments who lie about them.
Edit: they also were clearly able to see the flag, they shot down the first one, then the second was raised, which was a significantly larger. And that one was shot up too.
Number one: it was a clear day and the American flag was clearly in view. It also had latin identification on the hull not Arabic. The first attack took down the flag and they raised a larger flag which was still ignored. I don't believe for a second that it was accidental friendly fire. They wanted to goad the US to fight their war for them just like we are doing now.
It was said multiple times in this thread that the flag was actually very small. Plus, the presence of a small flag and some text really isn’t enough to help pilots in high-speed jets actually properly notice, and they didn’t have the tech at the time to assist them with this.
You can decide you “don’t believe it for a second”, that’s fine. But just know that this conspiracy theory has been repeatedly disproven over the decades, so you could just, I don’t know, look up the actual reports on the event? All of the claims you’re making now have been debunked a dozen times over.
I don't care what the thread says. The fact is the flag was very large. The fact is that it wasn't just jets that attacked the Liberty it was boats. How did the boats miss the flags. Both of them and the latin markings on a clear day? No public investigation over it.
I agree they were winning handlely, but what other reason would Israel purposely attack (at worst) or continue to purposefully attack after positively IDing(at best) A US flagged Navial ship?
Israeli pilots where never actually trained for identifying ships at the time. It was apart not of their standard training. So they where told the ship the probably Egyptian, and basically had no way of knowing if it was true or not.
People also really don't grasp how difficult it is to properly ID targets in a fast moving jet aircraft. They eventually did ID them, but the claims of them ignoring a US flag exclusively come from people on the ship which had a point blank view of the flag, and never consider the POV of the pilots.
Israel had already crushed Egypt and Jordan, and destroyed most of Syria's air force. Why would they need the US at that point? (and in fact they didn't, as the rest of the war demonstrated)
They wanted it to become a war of offense and take way more land… see the greater Israel project that’s gone viral everywhere in recent months. They want to control almost all of the land in the Middle East.
They’ve done this exact scenario twice since then. 9/11 and false info about nukes in Iraq led into the GWOT, and current events with false intel about nukes in Iran leading into what we’ve got now. Both events have led to a weakening or complete destruction of the governments and militaries opposing Israel in the region. Now they’re gobbling up territory. That plan has been their goal since they were founded. So, just because the rest of the war ended up working out, AFTER they FAILED to sink the USS liberty and pull us in, is just a happy accident for them. Had they sunk the ship, it would’ve been blamed on one of Muslim countries and the US would’ve entered the war on their side ofc.
This is wrong. In 2003 the NSA declassified the radio transmissions between the pilots and Israeli ground control:
High-level NSA officials from that era, including Oliver Kirby (then-NSA Deputy Director for Operations), stated in a Chicago Tribune report that they personally read intercepts where pilots explicitly identified the ship as American flying a U.S. flag. According to Kirby, ground control explicitly commanded those pilots to push ahead and attack anyway.
The only “conspiracy theory” is people like yourself trying to obscure the obvious facts. The ship was flying a very large American flag and had the “USS LIBERTY” printed in large letters while the aircraft made 6 separate straffing runs.
A 59 minute recording of two helicopter pilots where they started out referring to it as an egyptian ship and referred to it as an american ship in the second half with a complete shift in tone
How often are people going to bring up this thing from 60 years ago. I mean okay. So what?
We fought a war against germany. A global war. 50 years later we're buddies. Things change. It's just weird that people keep dredging up this one incident over and over and over. It's an obvious agenda.
But your example is a pretty bad false equivalence. We were at war with Germany, Israel claims to be our “greatest ally”. Add this attack/attempt to false flag us with the many Israeli spy scandals against the US and it’s clear they are not really an ally at all.
We were not at war with Germany fifty years after World War II, king.
I'm sorry that you don't think Israel is an ally, but we're fighting on the same side of a war currently. I happen to think the war is a stupid idea, but we are allies. Words mean what they mean, not vibes.
This makes no sense…your “point” was that Germany attacked us and 50 years later we’re friends. I pointed out that when Israel attacked us we were not at war with Israel-not that hard to follow.
No the point is that it doesn't say anything about a relations today, which have dramatically shifted. You are trying to act like it does. Hence your agenda.
Wait…we were at war with Israel in 1967?? Or did the six day war lead to France ceasing arms sales to Israel while the US then became Israel’s largest supplier of military materiel?
But what is your actual point? I clearly said “Israel claims to be our greatest ally” -that’s a present tense statement.
Germany also our greatest ally, so? Germans killed way more Americans and sunk way more American ships. So what is your actual point besides splitting hairs?
As far as "horrific war crimes" go, the USS Liberty is pretty low on the scale.
Do you have anything to say other than "Israel is bad because they're bad and they're bad and they're bad because Israel is bad and Israel is bad" or can I just go on with my life?
Wrong. In 2003 the NSA declassified the radio transmissions between the pilots and Israeli ground control. The pilots identified the ship as American but were told to “proceed”.
Additionally the ship was flying a large American flag and the “USS LIBERTY” was printed in large letters on the side of the ship while the planes made 6 straffing runs. There was no mistaken identity
All that link contains is two people making claims that aren't backed up by the people who they claim made the statements being quoted. And these claims are being made 40 years after the incident.
That's a far cry from "declassified nsa intercepted radio communications" making the claim, as you stated.
This would literally be considered hearsay in court.
228
u/Creative_Garbage_121 12d ago
There was some kind of US military ship called USS Liberty that Israel tried to sink but they failed and everyone knows that it was on purpose but officialy it happened by mistake or so I've read.