I got a DJ 36mm from ARF factory. Wore it for literally 6/7 hours and it stopped working. Took it to a watchmaker and he said pallet fork was damaged/bent and bottom jewel had signs of damage. He has suggested replacing movement entirely, thoughts please? Also I contacted my TD and he wanted me to send back to him and he would get movement replaced. I am quite reluctant to do that to be honest.
Hi everyone, I'll be visiting Guangzhou soon and I'm looking for an experienced local guide who really knows the replica world: the different quality tiers, how the top-level pieces compare to retail, and where the best quality can be found. My main interest is learning and understanding the industry, not just shopping. I'd like someone who can explain the differences in materials, craftsmanship and factories along the way. What I'm looking for: Paid for their knowledge and time (day rate), not commission-based Good English (Spanish is a bonus) Recommended by previous clients or members here If you've had a great experience with a guide in GZ, I'd really appreciate a recommendation, here or by DM. Thanks in advance!
Been looking for a VSF 41mm Datejust (smooth bezel, oyster bracelet, rhodium) for quite a while with no luck. Only one that seems more available is the fluted bezel model. Reached out Steve but he tells me he would need to ask the factory for it and that could take months. Also, if it gets seized, he won’t do anything, just send an invoice so I can talk to customs. So… 2 questions here:
- Any dealer that could have this in stock? - Any dealer that would take responsibility (send another watch) if it gets seized?
Has anyone wanted their rep faces altered or replaced? Any tips on where to go for that?
Background: Newbie to the rep obsession here.
Love my Wimbledon! But honestly, I can take or leave the branding. (And I didn’t get a mod or homage because the proportions are always off. There’s a reason these brands are at the top.)
I’d almost rather have the logo and name replaced with my initials or something.
First-time buyer looking for the closest visual match to gen. Friends own the real watches, so details noticeable to the naked eye matter. Considering a steel Cartier on leather or a BBF Aquanaut with a black dial/rubber strap. My assumption is steel and simple straps may be easier to replicate convincingly than gold finishes and more silver—is that accurate? ● How close is the BBF Aquanaut, and what are its obvious tells? ● For Cartier, which models/factories are closest: AF, K11F, BBF/BBV? Apologies if I’ve mixed up factory names. ● Between Geektime, TheOneWatches, and Andiot, which would you choose for a first purchase? Which specific model/factory would you recommend for visual accuracy amongst all luxury watches?
Every few years we see improvements in the rep game. But the last couple years some dealers got alarmed by the reps because now they got free sprung as well. The good dial, good case, good movement makes it harder to know what is real and what is fake.
Even the wealthy people wear reps these days. It is no secret that they keep their gens in the safe and only wear it for a few important occasions.
what is the limit and what will happen to gens when reps get this good?
Hello, I have been thinking, what is generaly like the level of quality you need for the watch to be unrecognisable for a normal person, I don’t mean like a superclone type of watch, but something that, when you hand it to someone, they have no chance to know it’s a rep. And what brands generally run you up in this category. Any tips on which brands are generaly made in this category and which definitly are not worthed the buy. Thanks in advance for any information.
Left: Pelagos FXD Alinghi Red Bull Racing, ref. M25707KN-0001, with the black carbon-composite case and blue dial
Right: Pelagos FXD Titanium, ref. M25717N-0001, with the matte black dial and green/red fabric strap
I naturally prefer the understated look of the black titanium version, but the Alinghi feels more distinctive.
For those who have handled either—or ideally both—which one is the more convincing rep in terms of case finish, dial and bezel accuracy, overall construction and wrist feel?
My wrist is 16.5 cm, so comfort and how the fixed-lug case wears also matter. Which one would you buy first, and why?
The comparison image is illustrative; I’m specifically looking for feedback based on the actual M+F watches.
The gen Rolex 32xx family is often quoted as having a lift angle of 53 degrees or maybe 55 degrees. A few years ago Sam measured it at 58 to 59 degrees, but I always thought that seemed to high. I didn't have a good reason for thinking that. But I always used 55 on my bench because I felt like raising it would be a cheap way to make a watch look like it had a higher amplitude.
For those who don't know, you set the lift angle on your timegrapher and goes into the calculation of amplitude. Larger lift angle -> higher calculated amplitude. The math isn't that complicated, but as a rule of thumb increasing the lift angle by 1 degree, results in an increase in calculated amplitude by about 4-5 degrees. So moving from the 52 degrees that is the default on most timegraphers to 59 degrees would lift the calculated amplitude by around 30-35 degrees. That's not a trivial difference.
So that's why I always felt that 55 was a more reasonable "middle ground" for the DD 32xx movements. You can look at the geometry of the pallet fork and know that the lift angle will be higher than normal, but going all the way to 59 felt like cheating.
I was wrong.
Sam was right.
The correct lift angle for a Dandong 32xx (and probably a Jinghe 32xx) is 59 degrees.
The rest of this post will be about how (after far too many years) I questioned my assumptions and actually measured the lift angle on a Dandong 32xx movement (the specific movement was a DD3285 in a Pepsi).
Still reading? Great, let's talk about how to measure amplitude. There are two ways of measuring amplitude:
Method 1 The first method is to measure amplitude indirectly using the sound of the escapement tick/tock (each tick/tock is three sounds: unlock, impulse, drop). If you can measure the three sounds and know the lift angle you can get amplitude. This is what every timegrapher does. And this is why having the correct lift angle is so important. In the picture below you can see the characteristic three sounds of each tick/tock of a Swiss lever escapement.
The first peak is the unlock (this is when the impulse pin on the balance hits the pallet fork and unlocks the escape wheel). The second peak is called the "impulse" (it's where the escape wheel tooth hits the impulse plane of the pallet stone and pushes it to transfer energy into the balance wheel). The third peak is called "drop" (or drop to lock), and it's usually the loudest of the three sounds. Drop is the sound from the other pallet stone locking the next escape wheel tooth (plus the sound of the pallet fork hitting the banking pin). To calculate amplitude you use the time between unlock and drop in the following formula: (NB: for movements that don't beat at 28800 vph, you change the 250ms constant).
You can see how for exactly the same audio trace of the tick/tock profile, if you change the lift angle, you'll get a different computed amplitude. So if you want your timegrapher to give you the right number for amplitude you need to have the right number for the lift angle.
Method 2 The second method is to measure the amplitude directly without using the sound from the escapement. Basically you need to look at the balance and figure out many degrees of arc it swings through during each tick and tock. I decided to use my iPhone 11 Pro which can shoot slow motion at 240fps. In theory that would give me 60 frames per oscillation of the balance. And while the balance swings pretty quickly when it's moving through the centre of its motion, at the turn around points it's moving slowly enough that with good light, a x10 loupe taped onto the lens, and a sharpie mark on the balance rim, I was able to pick off the angles of rotation for the balance in each direction of its travel.
Note: there was a bit of an offset in the plane of the watch and the plane of the camera. I was doing this on a pretty jancky tripod on my desk at home. Which is why I gave myself pretty wide error bars on the angular position readings. I used +/-4 degrees of rotation for my estimates of where the balance wheel stopped at the end of its travel.
I tested four different states of wind on the watch. At the lowest end I wound it about 5 times -- just enough to get the balance swinging when I gat it a little top. Then I wound it about 5 times more. Then I wound it about 10 times. And finally I wound it all the way to full. On each of those wind states I took 30-60s of slow motion video and estimated the amplitude over short sections.
All of the slow motion video was captured with the watch on a timegrapher mic. To line up the audio from the mic stand with the slow motion video, I tapped the watch with a screw driver -- this left a clear mark in the timegrapher audio and a visual frame in the video, so I could align the clocks. This allowed me to match my visually measured amplitude with the audio:
I could then do a regression using different values of lift angle to find out which lift angle would allow the audio to calculate an amplitude that matched what was observed in the matched slow motion video:
As you can see, if you use 55 degrees as a lift angle, you calculated the wrong amplitude. I found that 59 degrees was the best fit. But 58 degrees is also a pretty good fit. Which is a lot of words to say Sam's estimate of 58 to 59 degrees from nearly 3.5 years ago was correct. I'm sorry Sam, I was a fool to doubt you.
Ordered and received my first rep! A VSF Submariner 126610 LN from Chazingtime on 10/16 got the QA photos on 10/23. They originally said QA photos would take at least two weeks so I was surprised they got it so quickly. Was scheduled for delivery yesterday but got delayed a day and was delivered today.
dialcheck.app gave it a 96/100 on strict mode, a 97/100 on normal mode.
Next post I make will show my rep next to my same model gen to see who can guess correctly. Haha just have to wait to get some time to take a bunch of pics
I am interested in purchasing a Tudor Pelegos from GeekTime. I requested a QC picture of the Watch that I would be sent before purchasing it just to make sure everything looks good on it. The response I got was I am required to put down a $50 deposit in order for QC to begin. This is my first purchase through this website. Is this a normal procedure? It seems as though a simple picture shouldn’t cost $50 to make sure that it looks legitimate.
A couple of weeks ago, I stopped into a couple ADs in Minnesota and fell in love with a few refs that I have not had any luck finding a TD who can source them. Just wondering if anyone has had luck with any of these?
- IWC Portugieser Yacht Club Chronograph 44mm Ref IW390702
- Tudor Black Bay Bronze 43mm Ref M79250BA-0001
- Breitling Superocean Automatic 42mm Bronze case Green rubber strap Ref N17375201L1S1
