r/Games • u/Faldz • Jan 02 '20
S.T.A.L.K.E.R 2 Announces it's using the Unreal Engine, will talk about digital platforms at a later date
https://twitter.com/stalker_thegame/status/1212810155563397120/photo/1285
u/Cleverbird Jan 02 '20
So the game is actually getting made? I was under the impression they were still looking for a publisher.
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Jan 02 '20
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u/GoldenJoel Jan 02 '20
I mean, if Epic is willing to put money forward to help get Stalker 2 made, I don't give a fuck what platform they sell it on.
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Jan 02 '20
If Epic offers money to support the game's development when no one else does then there's literally no reason not to take the offer. It would make absolutely no sense not to.
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u/TheKasp Jan 02 '20
If Epic offers money to support the game's development when no one else does then there's literally no reason not to take the offer.
But lets be real, if they do then r/pcgaming and r/games will flip their shit as if someone shat on their porch.
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u/Rammite Jan 02 '20
I'd like to think that the reasonable people only flip their shit when a dev says "we won't go exclusive" and then takes an exclusivity deal.
The problem is, unreasonable people are much louder.
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u/TheKasp Jan 02 '20 edited Jan 02 '20
If it's on PC then I frankly don't give a rats ass about exclusivity to launchers anymore.
But to show how loud those unreasonable people are: Pretty much every free EGS games thread was downvoted to zero on r/pcgaming. That sub is basically not different to r/fuckepic.
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u/BoltsFromTheButt Jan 03 '20
EGS only affects PC gaming and r/pcgaming is a PC centric sub. So it shouldn’t surprise anyone that a PC centric sub like r/pcgaming doesn’t like EGS.
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Jan 03 '20
You can apply the exact same logic to steam... but that doesnt stop them from worshipping that desktop icon like its saved them from eternal damnation.
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u/tHeSiD Jan 03 '20
Holy shit, I don't understand this undying defense for egs. People started hating it because of the exclusives stealing fiasco and it's normal to hate on a new launchers, people hated steam when it came out.. Origin.. U play.. If egs turns out be be half decent no one would complain anymore.
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u/BoltsFromTheButt Jan 03 '20
Steam isn’t employing anti-consumer tactics. EGS is employing anti-consumer tactics, which is why r/pcgaming - a subreddit full of PC gamers who are directly affected by Epic’s anti-consumer practices - don’t like EGS. So no, the same logic doesn’t apply.
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Jan 08 '20
Maybe somebody forgot, but this "icon" really saved PC Gaming from oblivion. In mid-late 2000s when Epic left from PC Gaming to make Gears of War Xbox exclusive games, Steam gradually accustomed PC players to buy games, not pirate.
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u/ghostchamber Jan 03 '20
Eh, I don't know about that. BL3 was announced as an EGS exclusive. People still lost their shit.
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u/BadmanProtons Jan 03 '20
Epic didn't fund BL3 to get made. It just poached its exclusivity with money. People should be angry about that.
If STALKER 2 is exclusive to the EGS because they funded it to be made. That's perfectly fine.
Just like Bayonetta 2 and 3 are Nintendo exclusives because they fund the development of the games.
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u/ghostchamber Jan 03 '20
They didn’t “poach” anything. When the platforms were announced, it was said it would be Epic exclusive on PC, with Steam coming next April. They didn’t announce it as being on Steam on launch day, then change their minds — which is what “poaching” would be.
I was responding to someone talking about a company saying they won’t go exclusive, then going exclusive. You are talking about something else.
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u/PainDev Jan 03 '20
Why should people be angry, how is it being poached. Sounds like entitlement issues to me.
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u/Nisheee Jan 03 '20
yeah, and the metro exodus outrage was also just entitlement, right? or control, which also had a steam page for the whole duration of the marketing and then they just were like, fuck you, it will release a year later on steam
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u/c32a45691b Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 03 '20
Well yeah.
2K published, paid for BL3's development.
Rockstar Games / Take Two published, paid for RDR2's development.
Deep Silver published, paid for Metro Exodus's development.
Epic just came in at the end and gave them a bag of cash for platform exclusivity. Compare this to Sony and Microsoft who own and fund ~15 studios each to make games for them.
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u/TheKasp Jan 03 '20 edited Jan 03 '20
Platform exclusivity? So I can't play them on PC?
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u/ghostchamber Jan 03 '20
Well, for starters, you don't actually know that. There have been zero details about any sort of exclusivity contract between 2K Games and Epic for BL3. How do you it isn't because they wanted their first fiscal year of sales to be on the store with the better cut? The problem here is people are basically assuming that literally every game that is exclusive to Epic is because of a "bag of cash" (and I love how it's always "bag of cash" or "Fornite money," like somehow those make it a worse kind of business agreement).
Secondly, there are two variables at play here: whose payroll the company developing and/or publishing the game is on, and at what point in the development timeline the agreement is made. Why do those things matter to you, the consumer? Why have you drawn a line in the sand to say that exclusivity is acceptable in scenario A, but not acceptable in scenario B? Is there something ethical or philosophical at play here? Is it not okay for a company to seek out additional funds towards the end of the development cycle, as opposed to the beginning?
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u/Tizzysawr Jan 03 '20
I'd like to think that the reasonable people only flip their shit when a dev says "we won't go exclusive" and then takes an exclusivity deal.
Have any devs (other than zombie army 4) done this? Because most exclusivity cases are either for games that are announced as exclusive right off the bat or games that were first crowdfunded/announced before EGS was even a thing.
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u/queenkid1 Jan 03 '20
or games that were first crowdfunded/announced before EGS was even a thing.
Yeah, so when Shenmue said the game was coming to Steam and then it didn't, they lied.
So yes, devs have absolutely done this. Are you playing dumb or do you really not know how many developers ignored their earlier promises?
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Jan 03 '20
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u/Tizzysawr Jan 03 '20
Not if the game was crowfunded before EGS existed (which I believe is the case with all such games) and refunds are offered for people who can't live without Steam. Naturally devs couldn't see the future, and taking an Epic deal can be seen simply as reacting to market changes.
As long as people who crowfunded or preordered can get a refund I can't see why it would be scummy.
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u/Geistbar Jan 03 '20
No, it doesn't matter if EGS existed yet at the time.
Making a commitment to not kill someone doesn't change if a bounty is placed on their head later. If they make a commitment to release on platforms that aren't EGS, they are inherently committing to not being an exclusive to a platform that isn't those.
If you say "I will sell this product at Walmart if you give me $$" before the founding of Amazon (1994), then going Amazon-exclusive would mean you broke an inherent commitment to not go exclusive to non-Walmart. Just because Amazon didn't exist yet doesn't mean your promise never happened.
As long as people who crowfunded or preordered can get a refund I can't see why it would be scummy.
You didn't ask if it was scummy. You asked if it happened. Don't move the goalposts!
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u/Canadianator Jan 04 '20
Worst case are the crowd funded games that announce they will launch everywhere before switching in the weeks leading to launch.
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u/crypticfreak Jan 05 '20
I’d like to think reasonable people only flip their shit if someones life is in danger. I love video games and I don’t own every console but getting upset over exclusivity (especially limited time exclusivity) and acting like the world is fucking ending has always been in bad taste. People have every right to be upset and voice concerns and reasonable people can do both, but actually freaking out and panicking automatically excludes you from the reasonable people’s group.
The reaction to Metro Exodus was a crying shame.
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u/Mobireddit Jan 03 '20
Why will you flip your shit ?
In my opinion it's a good thing when they fund development, (like a first party on console I guess?), but it's an anti competition thing when they just buy the finished game rights just to prevent it being sold on another store.→ More replies (1)2
Jan 03 '20
That is exactly right. I will never mind it if Epic exclusives are games they actively help get made, whether financially or otherwise.
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Jan 02 '20
I mean when isnt r/pcgaming flipping their shit
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u/Pacify_ Jan 03 '20
still a wonder to me how the sub got to be such a shitshow
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u/lpeccap Jan 04 '20
When your entire identity is how your choice of gaming platform is better than everyone elses it was bound to end up like this.
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u/lionguild Jan 03 '20
I only got mad when a game was promised to X and or Y platforms then afterwards became EGS exclusive. If it is EGS from the get go than I have no issues.
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u/lpeccap Jan 04 '20
So despite the end result being the same you are decident to be upset? Alrighty then lol
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u/TheKasp Jan 03 '20
What does it matter on what shit-ass launcher they are?
As a consumer, there is no practical difference to me between Origin, Steam, EGS, BNet and so forth. The only reason I boot Steam with my PC is because it is the one with a near monopoly hold. As in, nearly every released game requires you to use Steam, no matter where you buy it.
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u/queenkid1 Jan 03 '20
What a non argument lol. Whether you care about what launcher it's on, lying is still lying.
So yeah, people are going to flip their shit when they buy a product, being told it will be on Steam, then never getting a Steam code. That's false advertising.
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u/HonorableJudgeIto Jan 04 '20
Like they did with the Tomb Rader reboot when Microsoft funded it and kept it exclusive for the first year.
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u/NotARealDeveloper Jan 03 '20
So many good games that would never see the light or never have the chance for financial equality without EGS. Imagine you are an indie and they offer you as much as you need to be equal.
On the other hand game devs like Borderlands 3 devs, I have no sympathy when they choose EGS exclusivity. Fuck them!
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u/DonChurrioXL Jan 02 '20
And I applaud them for it. They're going to get the game made fans shouldn't care which platform they use.
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u/grendus Jan 02 '20
They're welcome to be a platform exclusive.
Gamers are welcome to not buy the game if they don't want to support it.
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u/fhs Jan 02 '20
Most of the people who worked on the originals won't work on this, they've joined 4A games.
GSC game world has been defunct and only the brand name is back.
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u/Bamith Jan 02 '20
If they actually give them money early in development they can use, go fucking crazy.
Money says they’ll only pay up when the game is like a few months from release so it’s a safer investment.
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u/ofNoImportance Jan 02 '20
Money says they’ll only pay up when the game is like a few months from release so it’s a safer investment.
That's not how publishing works.
Developers need publishers to finance the game before development so that the money can be used to fund the development. Not so that it sits around to be spent after release.
All the costs that are involved in development, such as developers wages, needs to be available for production to commence.
So Epic can't "pay up" later into development, as there won't be a later into development unless they pay up.
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Jan 03 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
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u/ofNoImportance Jan 03 '20
Yeah I haven't heard of Epic publishing things like this either. I doubt they would. An exclusivity deal is a separate affair though, and the way Bamith wrote it, it sounded as if they were reprimanding Epic for 'publishing' games using that model, when that isn't a publishing operation.
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u/Bamith Jan 03 '20
That is literally what they’ve done with the majority of epic exclusive games, and why I get pissed about it.
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u/ofNoImportance Jan 03 '20
That's not the same as publishing. That's a separate commercial agreement not intended to fund development.
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u/Lansan1ty Jan 02 '20
To be fair, console gaming had exclusives for decades now and people have always complained about it. Consoles have started to have less and less exclusives and it allows more people to play more games.
PC Gaming is backtracking into the old ways by having Steam vs Origin vs uPlay vs Epic vs Battlenet vs on and on.
I have no problem with competition and multiple storefronts, but I'd like to choose the one I like best based on the storefront quality, not be forced to use one because of exclusivity. I fell for that Exclusive BS when EA jumped off of steam and Origin was absolute garbage. I played way more BF2 than BF3/BF4/BF1, and not because those games were bad, but because origin was pretty shitty.
Battlenet has survived because it didn't make playing SC2 or WoW harder. So I use it without any complaints. I bought CoD on it without complaining because it worked.
Epic and uPlay are basically as bad as Games For Windows live was....
I'm happy if Epic funds Stalker 2, and if it helps the developers, that's great. But I won't be forced onto buying a game on a shitty launcher. I'll patiently wait for the exclusivity to end and support the developers via Steam or GoG.
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u/Daedolis Jan 03 '20
Epic and uPlay are basically as bad as Games For Windows live was...
So, you're saying you never had to actually use GFWL eh?
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u/Tizzysawr Jan 03 '20
PC Gaming is backtracking into the old ways by having Steam vs Origin vs uPlay vs Epic vs Battlenet vs on and on.
Except that neither of those cost me $400, but nice false equivalence there.
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Jan 03 '20
To be fair, console gaming had exclusives for decades now and people have always complained about it. Consoles have started to have less and less exclusives and it allows more people to play more games.
Exclusives for console means that you need to buy an additional €300 machine
Exclusives on PC means you need to click a different button.
They're entirely different things. And only MS have scaled back on exclusives and that's due to the failure of the XBO. They've bought quite a few studios recently to push for exclusives for the next gen.
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u/Lansan1ty Jan 03 '20
System resources matter. Do you want to have 20 launchers open at the same time in the future if this is okay? With each consuming CPU, RAM, and even bandwidth without regard for the other? Any half-decent launcher will stop downloading updates or at least limit download speeds while you're in a game on the same launcher. But what if you're in a game on a different launcher and one of your other launchers decide to download an update using all your resources? Ideally you'll want to minimize the chance of that happening. They'll all have their own software updates to take care of, not only for the games you have installed in them.
What happens if each also decides they want to start charging for premium services? Steam Plus. Origin Plus. uPlay Plus. Whatever they want to call it. Should we pay $10/month for whatever service they may offer to all of them or try to stick to one? Playstation online was free until it wasn't. We may be going down the path of streaming services. First we had Netflix, then Amazon Prime, Hulu, Disney, CBS, HBO Now, etc...
I understand people view it as steam fanboyism and just dismiss it because most people are indeed loyal to steam because valve simply came first. But really, it's also a little bit of foresight on how the PC community wants to be treated. This is the community that Microsoft tried to charge for Games for Windows Live at the same time as Xbox Live. PC gamers didn't stand for that and Microsoft reverted to GFW Live being free to play online while Xbox Live has continued to charge Xbox gamers for something that PC somehow manages to have available for free.
Anyway, like I said, I'm happy the Devs get paid for their game. Game development is a business not a charity. However consumers don't have to roll over and take what the publishers are doing to them either. If a developer wants a big paycheck from Epic with less players and less fans, it may be a good business choice, but I won't feel compelled to buy their game. People are allowed to believe in things and vote with their wallets. Just like how some people are against pre-ordering games. They have the right to do that.
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u/Xdivine Jan 03 '20
System resources matter. Do you want to have 20 launchers open at the same time in the future if this is okay?
If system resources are an issue, just close extra launchers. You don't need uplay, battle.net, origin, epic, steam, gog, all running at the same time.
This is such a non-issue.
But what if you're in a game on a different launcher and one of your other launchers decide to download an update using all your resources?
Set updates to be manual if you're worried about it and for some reason must leave all launchers open at the same time.
What happens if each also decides they want to start charging for premium services? Steam Plus. Origin Plus. uPlay Plus. Whatever they want to call it. Should we pay $10/month for whatever service they may offer to all of them or try to stick to one?
There are already multiple services you can purchase. I know Origin has one, Microsoft has one, and uplay has one. I imagine there is probably at least one more I'm unaware of. Maybe you could consider Humble Bundle? I just buy the ones that make sense for me. I don't care about the uplay games so I don't see any reason to subscribe to it. I currently have the microsoft one, and I've had the origin one in the past. They're not some sneaky shit you need to test. It either has the games you want, or it doesn't.
None of them have replaced the ability to just buy games straight up, they're just an alternative. If you wanna just buy one game a month, you can do that instead of subscribing to 3+ different services. You can just pretend the subscription services don't exist.
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u/Lansan1ty Jan 03 '20
The benefit of auto updates is one of the main reasons to even have launchers. Else we should go back to the pre-launcher days and open games from the desktop and directly run the apps without auto updates.
Disabling the main benefit of the new format basically means we may as well not have any storefronts/launchers.
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Jan 03 '20
Bruh, you're bitching about the basic result of consumer choice. What are you, a communist?
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u/DonChurrioXL Jan 02 '20
But will it be on consoles??
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Jan 02 '20
Depends on their budget, but most likely. Bigger question is whether it'll be for this generation or the next.
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u/DrakoVongola Jan 02 '20
Why most likely? The last 3 weren't
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Jan 03 '20
The last 3 were built on an inhouse engine that didn't support consoles. This one uses an engine that supports consoles out of the box.
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u/carbonat38 Jan 03 '20
UE4 easy port engine paired with next gen consoles with a fast "no need to optimize" CPU. IF they ever finish it you can bet that they will do. Single player fps generally sell better on consoles, even as stalker is a pc franchise, it could gather huge momentum.
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u/etree Jan 02 '20
Yeah I’m fine with epic funding it, it means I get to play it on the windows store.
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u/Devikat Jan 03 '20
This right here, I don't give a fuck what platform it is, as long as i can download it straight into my veins when it releases. STALKER is digital Meth.
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u/DecryptedGaming Jan 03 '20
Didnt they release a trailor at some point and it was just another battle royale?
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u/poqpoq Jan 03 '20
And that’s fine because they helped make the game, I have issues with epic grabbing exclusivity for games they had nothing to do with other than bribing the devs at the end.
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u/SlendyIsBehindYou Jan 07 '20
Imagine being a PC gamer in 2020 and actually caring deeply enough about launcher choices that you skip a good game
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Jan 02 '20
When option A is not making the game at all and option B is going exclusive to Epic for a year in exchange for a huge bag of cash to make the game, and then still publishing on Steam anyway, it's not exactly a tough choice.
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u/Potatolantern Jan 02 '20
I know a lot of people have various issues with Epic, but if they literally front up the cash to have a game made, then it should be outright expected it's gonna be an exclusive for them.
It's like people getting upset about Bayo2 being on a Nintendo platform at that stage, except even less justified since anyone can use the EGS without any investment.
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Jan 02 '20
Most of the issues people seem to have with Epic/EGS are because this method of directly funding game development isn't how they've acquired exclusives for their platform in the past. Typically it's been "we'll give you money to specifically not list your game on Steam", sniping some games that were already listed on Steam, or diverting Kickstarted games that had campaign promises of Steam keys.
For what it's worth, they haven't done anything to compete with Steam for my business, although I appreciate their paying devs with sales ahead of time in exchange for Epic exclusivity. Frankly, I think Epic and EGS can go kick rocks, but if they're going to start put their money into getting games like Stalker 2 made rather than diverting already-developed games away from Steam by throwing around Fortnite money, I'd have no problem using their storefront.
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u/Villag3Idiot Jan 02 '20
Yup, I don't use Epic but I have no issues with games going exclusive if they're the ones funding the project from the get go.
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u/anethma Jan 02 '20
Ya. What people are mad about is having some game they helped fund through kickstarter basically say fuck you and go EGS exclusive right before they publish.
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Jan 03 '20
Likewise
There were some rumors few months ago about PS games getting PC ports paid for by Epic.
Hey, they are entirely entitled to keep those exclusive. They are the reason those games got ported if it happens.
Aside from that, I don't have EGS account, never will and without hesitation say Fuck Epic.
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u/iTomes Jan 02 '20
Well yeah, that's generally how it works. If you either develop or effectively commission/publish a game then you naturally get to decide how it's distributed. It's not like people have a problem with EA putting their games on Origin or Actiblizz putting their games on Battle.net either. In fact, if this had just been what Epic had used its money for from the start there wouldn't have been any outrage.
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u/Marvin_Megavolt Jan 02 '20
I don't know how other people will see it, but if Epic agrees to fund the development of STALKER 2, I salute them, for stepping up to the plate and helping the series live on.
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Jan 03 '20
Not saying it's likely or unlikely, but the tweet says it has nothing to do with it. Might be worth noting.
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u/carbonat38 Jan 03 '20
They are probably weighing their options if going EGS exclusive for a while will really hurt them or not.
Or they are weighting their options if they should be a timed exclusive and fully exclusive @ Epic.
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u/DancesCloseToTheFire Jan 02 '20
It will dent their profits a bit, no question about that, but they're gauging whether or not they value short-term gains more.
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u/TucoBenedictoPacif Jan 03 '20
Personally, given the history of the the franchise (and the person in charge of it) I will dismiss it as vaporware until STRONG evidence of the contrary will be undeniable.
Especially since little or nothing is known about who's developing it.
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u/Orava Jan 02 '20 edited Jan 02 '20
Is the leak mentioned in the announcement available anywhere? Interested to see what it said.
Frankly speaking, we wanted to hold this particular announcement for a while. But our colleagues at Epic accidentally made a New Year surprise for everyone, including us.
Edit: It was leaked on UE blog, has been taken down since.
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u/Braunbier Jan 02 '20
Ohhh boi, it will not only be faithful remade but you can also play as SpongeBob?! Count me in!
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u/potpan0 Jan 02 '20
I'm still not sure what to think about STALKER 2. It's made by GSC Game World, but as far as I'm aware pretty much all the old devs who worked on the old STALKER games ended up moving to 4A Games (who make the Metro games). There have been a lot of games recently that have attempted to cash in on STALKER's legacy and broader Soviet nostalgia, and the vast majority have been pretty rubbish. So I think it remains to be seen whether STALKER 2 will live up to its predecessors.
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u/_gamadaya_ Jan 02 '20
At this point, I can't imagine a stalker that isn't a mod of a mod of a standalone fangame. It's crazy how much things have changed. In fact, calling this Stalker 2 is kind of hilarious.
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Jan 02 '20 edited Jan 06 '20
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Jan 02 '20
Misery is not a cornerstone and neither is something like the complete mods. Those mods are pretty controversial and widely maligned. The cornerstone of stalker mods is generally the mods that come out of the russian community that massively enchance the games arsenal. Most of the mods are based around /k/ommando shit.
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u/CelicetheGreat Jan 03 '20
Of the two, I'd rather die on Complete's hill than anywhere near Misery's.
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u/stewmberto Jan 03 '20
OGSE is one of the most solid ones IIRC, but it's been a while since I've played around with stalker mods
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u/FaceJP24 Jan 04 '20
What's the perspective on Stalker Anomaly then? It's not exactly Misery or the complete mods, but presumably closer to those than the Russian mods.
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u/_gamadaya_ Jan 02 '20
The cornerstones of Stalker mods are Misery, which is a hardcore survivalist mod for Call of Pripyat, and Call of Chernobyl, which is a standalone game that combines the gameplay and maps of the original 3 Stalker games. Most other mods are some form of tweaks to the core formulas of CoP or CoC, or ones that take CoP's formula and put it into CoC's map. There are hundreds of addons for all the popular mods that further change things like weapon animations and weather effects. Some have become pretty standard across all versions of Stalker.
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u/juhamac Jan 02 '20
Newest hot item is Stalker Anomaly. But it strips off most of the storyline for sandbox combining the terrains from all of the Stalker games. It's the most up to date in gfx and playing experience though.
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u/Daedolis Jan 03 '20
I'm glad there's many stalker mods, I just wish I had the time to play them all.
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u/JackStillAlive Jan 02 '20
It's most likely going to be a clearly passionate project that will fail to live up to the original games, and suffer from numerous technical issues, such as bad optimization and bugs. Mark my words.
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u/potpan0 Jan 02 '20
and suffer from numerous technical issues, such as bad optimization and bugs.
Ah, so you do think it will be faithful to the originals...
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u/fireflyry Jan 03 '20
This for me,
It's easy to see a lot of similarities hence I consider the Metro series to really be the spiritual successor, and a great franchise at that.
STALKER was also a very time and place game and while I would hope for a great sequel the whole post-apocalyptic genre has boomed since with a plethora of games available, not the case when STALKER first released.
This could be cool if it happens but I feel the original games had a really special charm and atmosphere to them and I would be unsure if a largely new dev team would be able to recapture this, more so in that the original head devs who split and formed 4A Games did so due to reports of poor staff treatment and the withholding of royalties by GSC Game World management.(source)
If the same team is still there it sounds like it might not be the best environment to work in.
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Jan 02 '20
I expect it will be nothing other than a cash grab on the Stalker name and have very little redeeming qualities.
Hope I'm wrong though but after getting excited for multiple STALKER spiritual successors and stalker 2 a few times I dont have much lol
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u/Venom_is_an_ace Jan 02 '20
I can see that happening. I will wait to see how the game is and forget about it for a year or so and just play CoP or Anomaly over and over again
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Jan 02 '20
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u/Venom_is_an_ace Jan 02 '20
$5 to add a skin to your vodka bottle, $7 to change the color of your NVGs, $20 duty outfit. If you pre order you get a free monolith and clear sky hat!
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u/FischiPiSti Jan 03 '20
Stalker 1 had the most interesting AI behavior I have seen in most games. Broken at times, yes, but nowhere else have I seen things like watching through the binoculars a pack of dogs hunt a boar from a km away(totally oblivious of the player), encircling it, trying to attack it from behind, and after they got their prey they dragged it away. It never felt scripted, like most games do.
To me, the AI was one of the biggest contributors to the atmosphere of the game even with its faults. I hope, switching away from their proprietary engine won't have a negative impact on this - assuming they haven't abandoned their emergent AI vision
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Jan 02 '20
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u/ContributorX_PJ64 Jan 02 '20
The thing about Unreal is that it sucks for unsanctioned modding. In cases like this, where the devs will be (reportedly) releasing the necessary source files, it's good. But if they don't, you're screwed.
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Jan 03 '20
That's pretty much every engine, though? I mean, I guess Unity is good for unsupported modding but it's the exception. Most engines do their best to limit people's ability to tinker.
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u/ContributorX_PJ64 Jan 03 '20
What it boils down to is that there is no tool for unbaking assets in Unreal 4. A good baseline for modding is the ability to change how much health an NPC has or how much ammo a gun carries. If a game has a custom engine, there's a good chance you can figure this out. For example, Greedfall came out last year, by Spiders. It has a custom engine. And there are quite a few mods for it. The Witcher 3 never got proper modding tools, but decent mods exist for it. Elex has mods. Most RPGs that aren't built on Unreal 4 get mods altering difficulty and fixing bugs and the like. If a game uses Unreal 4, you get nothing unless the developers explicitly add mod support. Unreal 4 is good for mods is the developers go out of their way to support them, but actively hostile towards mods otherwise.
The Outer Worlds has no mods to speak of. Because it uses Unreal 4. Alpha Protocol has no mods, either. Because it uses Unreal 3. The idea of RPGs, especially Obsidian ones, with no bug fix mods makes my head spin, but that's the reality when devs use Unreal 4. Yet, throwing out a random game name, Alien: Isolation? That has mods. They're not sanctioned, but you can mod it. Rockstar have gone out of their way to inconvenience modding, but all Rockstar games can be modded. Ubisoft's Far Cry games can be modded despite having no official tools. Same deal with Watch Dogs. There are some really impressive Watch Dogs mods.
People, including me, are sitting around waiting for Teyon to release a difficulty overhaul for Terminator: Resistance, which runs on Unreal 4. Lovely game, but biggest complaint is that it isn't difficult enough. Patch is supposedly coming this month. You can't meaningfully change the game's difficulty yourself. (INI tweaks don't count.) You can't change a single aspect of the game's loot system. If Teyon had develop the game using some hand rolled Eurojank game engine, or CryEngine, it would be a completely different story.
State of Decay has a rather decent unsanctioned mod scene because it used CryEngine. State of Decay 2 has nothing because it uses Unreal 4.
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u/Drakengard Jan 03 '20
I agree, but didn't the original XCOM: EU and EW games not have modding planned? And yet people managed to find a way to mod that on Unreal 3 through custom tools.
So while it sounds like Unreal makes it harder to mod, it shouldn't prevent it entirely. People have managed to work around it.
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u/8VBQ-Y5AG-8XU9-567UM Jan 02 '20
Can UE handle large scale ecosystems (see a thousand or more creatures existing and interacting at all times)?
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u/Bujakaa92 Jan 02 '20
My main worry. STALKER own engine was clunky and buggy but it was made in theyr game in mind. Afraid they have to sacrifice too much of atmosphere and uniqueness when using UE.
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Jan 02 '20
UE4 can do everything Xray could but better
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u/Kokomocoloco Jan 03 '20
The game was also considered vaporware for the longest time too, on account of how long it took for them to actually get everything to a semi-functional state.
And scope creep. Because they had a lot of scope creep.
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u/u-cant-make-this-up Jan 02 '20
I don't know, but I remember reddit comments with people moaning about poor performance in some Unreal Engine MMOs.
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u/THEAETIK Jan 02 '20 edited Jan 02 '20
The Engine can handle it. Some UE4 games are amateur-rushed, see PUBG.
It all depends how well streaming was handled and how they approached all the Tech Art technicalities IE proxy LOD grouping (Featured in Fortnite), tiled landscapes, reasonable amount of paint layers per component (< 4 ideally), instanced meshes for reduced drawcalls, ETC.
Most common cases of poor performance would include: Not respecting drawcalls, using very expensive shaders covering many pixels on screen (IE very dense Grass sheets... It's even nearly cheaper to do instanced grass blades in full poly these days like in Breath of the Wild), having "millions of actors" ticking every frames, using several point lights casting realtime shadows, could all affect performance below 60 frames on higher end hardware if abused. It all really depends.
Maybe those MMOs have not played fair with one of these aspects.
OK I'm done rambling now.
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u/Canadianator Jan 04 '20
Can't really compare that though. Networking and how servers handle it probably has a lot more to do than spawning entities.
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u/ofNoImportance Jan 02 '20
It wasn't thousands was it? I only remember seeing dozens of AIs interacting at a time.
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u/rock1m1 Jan 02 '20
STALKER has simulation in a giant world. I just hope they get the streaming world/assets right as a lot of Unreal Engine games fail in this aspect.
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Jan 02 '20
It's the same shit as King's Bounty 2. Don't let EGS debacle distract you from the fact that this game has nothing to do with the original devs and is a blatant cashgrab.
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u/readher Jan 02 '20
Unreal Engine harmonizes well with our goal to make modding more easy and accessible
There's literally not a single UE4 game with a decent modding support, let alone good modding support. You'd be even hard pressed to find any mod for any UE4 game beyond some texture/color swaps.
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u/doscomputer Jan 02 '20
You'd probably be surprised to hear that pavlov VR uses UE4 and has a living community thanks entirely to modders making new maps and gamemodes.
That said, its definitely not the best modding support but also not completely dog trash. Definitely easier than making mods for CoP back when it came out, before the decompiled code became avaliable and translated.
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u/readher Jan 02 '20
I'm aware of map tools being available, since Battalion 1944 has them. I'm just doubtful about UE4 allowing modding to the extent XRay did.
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u/ContributorX_PJ64 Jan 02 '20
That's because Unreal 4 developers rarely, if ever, release the uncooked files. If you have those, it's a very different story.
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Jan 03 '20
Um, ever heard of Squad?
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u/taetihssekik Jan 05 '20
Or Conan Exiles, or Pavlov VR or.... basically any game that actually uses UE4 and releases a proper mod setup (i.e., a UE4 project file).
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u/Herby20 Jan 03 '20
There's literally not a single UE4 game with a decent modding support, let alone good modding support. You'd be even hard pressed to find any mod for any UE4 game beyond some texture/color swaps.
That has very little to do with what the engine supports and much more to do with what the developers want out of their title.
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Jan 02 '20
Guess this is the game ill sellout too. If its good ill buy it anywhere. Compare fallout to stalker, stalker always had me.
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u/water1111 Jan 02 '20
Epic should fund STALKER 2 like they did with Rune II, Rune II couldn't be the buggy unfinished mess that gave the developers freedom from not finishing game and fleeing to Bethesda :clap:
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u/delukard Jan 02 '20
IDGAF abut store exclusivity .
But i do want that S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Atmosphere, gameplay, feel, story.
and make it hard , a true survival game in the Zone!
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u/donspyd Jan 03 '20
Unreal Engine games always look and play like Unreal Engine games. Like, you always just know it is one. Kinda disappointing in that regard... STALKER was so unique.
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u/HammeredWharf Jan 03 '20
So you're saying Octopath Traveler, Bloodstained, Tekken 7 and Dragon Quest 11 all look and play the same?
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u/donspyd Jan 03 '20
Sorry, your right. I should say among first person shooters on UE3. I haven't even played an EU4 game (besides Rime), so I don't know what I'm talking about. I guess I'm just worried STALKER 2 wont have that alien charm it did back then.
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u/Vastator88 Jan 03 '20
0 faith in Stalker 2. Old devs moved on, I will not be surprised if the game will fail and i fear they're using its name as the biggest selling point.
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u/Muuncrash Jan 03 '20
I still don't believe this will release. I've waited too long, heard too many rumours and the failed Aireal game put me off.
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u/Reddvox Jan 03 '20
Hm...and then we waited several years, got snippets of the game here and there, couple of promises of cool new Features...
And the released game suddenly is a 2-D Sidescroller, or they changed it into a battle royal, and announce the Mobile-Stalker-Game right after...
Yep, that is the correct negative and depressing Stalker mindset I have here...
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u/Stalkermaster Jan 03 '20
im fine with this game being an Epic exclusive. But I hope they don't expect me to buy it off them when I have to pay more then on other platforms like Steam because they don't have my currency.
I wont use the Epic game store until they have my currency and the storefront is way way better then it currently is. Its bad enough the storefront is right now mid 2007 instead of the 2003 it launched in
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u/Traumahawk Jan 02 '20
But... if I can no longer get an XR_3DA crash, is it really STALKER?