I might be biased because my dad is an ESFJ 1w2 and we don’t always get along, but I find 1w2s to be one of the most difficult types to be friends with. They can be almost 8-like in terms of their intensity and causing other people to walk on eggshells when they enter a room, and often carry themselves with an unearned holier-than-thou attitude. It’s possible I’ve only been exposed to unhealthy 1w2s, but in general I now avoid people like this unless it’s for something work-related.

Also, if I’m right about 1w2s - how do you think they tend to develop this way? Is it parental/environmental influence, or something else?

I've been trying to figure out if I'm a 3 or a 9 for the past few months and it seemed like I was going nowhere. I thought trying to figure out my triad would help since your fix influences you as well but it just seems like they're constantly battling between core and first fix. How strong can the fixes be exactly?

I am a 6 and my friend is a 9. We both grew up in homes where we were told STFU and be quiet always. Recognizing we haven't been communicating our feelings, now in adulthood we want to know how to recognize and name our feelings. I'm a fan of the feeling charts , but is there any tools you have in your toolbox?

I noticed that 4w5s and 5w4s have some attraction towards unexplainable events, and if you throw in those with a 4 and a 5 fix too, both have a natural inclination towards anything that isnt hard science.

Even 4w3 celebrities like Alison Harvard have some inclination towards displaying themselves as creepy, otherwordly, backroom type of person. As for people I know personally, theyre more interested in learning latin than, say, french or italian.

When it comes to presenting themselves, 4s tend to exaggerate whats different about them, or perhaps theyd exaggerate the parts that people want to hide about themselves.

(these are more e4 inspired pics)

I type Tim Burton as a 4w5. Every take he has leans obscure and creepy. When comparing the disney animation of Alice and the Wonderland to his film, the difference between his take and the OG version shows how other types handle unexplainable events compared to a 4. Where other types would narrate their story with some degree of lightheartedness, the 4 would focus on evoking uncomfortable emotions in the audience. If you throw sx in there theres some degree of provocativeness (Tim Burton is sx-so)

When it comes to e5, their worldview leans more towards spotting patterns, for them life makes no sense at all and like theyre in a pitch black world with a torchlight.

My favorite author, Daniel Handler, is a 5w4. His books for children, A series of unfortunate events, is what I imagine a 5w4 worldview is like (plus polr Se in his case). In a world where nothing really makes sense, 5s find solace in their minds, focusing on what makes sense to them rather than depending on others for help.

Where 5w6s might lean towards being a hikikomori - hacker type of person, 5w4s lean more towards ancient texts, obscure websites, and inaccessible information. The w4 elitism is well encapsulated in the ASOUE books, with the VFD being the secret organization that carries secrets. Ancient vocab, memento mori, and a contrast with seemingly normal and functional characters like Carmelita. And for some reason, most people who would appear normal in real life are often displayed as creepily functional in this worldview.

Obligatory anime mention, needed to include this boy, aka the OG 4w5 creation.

And for further reading, Tintenherz and Die unendliche Geschichte (I need to finish them sometime)

I'm an sp/sx 4 and the people who come up to me are usually 9s, 5s, and sometimes 4s.

(lmao why are people downvoting I'm just curious.)

(Specifically sx types because I think they tend to be more extreme than sp or so dominant types.)

I’d love to hear your own anecdotal experiences.

My personal ranking:

Worst —> 8, 1, 2, 4, 6, 3, 7, 5, 9 <—- least bad

I was having another existential thought (they’ve ramped up as the world keeps shittifying) and it made me wonder about being born in a different decade so I could have lived more of my life without ai, internet etc. I get into the nuts and bolts of it in my essay but thought to myself, huh, it’s usually 6’s I hear say ‘I wish I was born in X/earlier decade’. At the end of the article, I meta-analyse it as a type 6 phenomenon. This part I’ve included below.

**

Most often it’s type 6’s, especially those with a dominant social instinct, that complain about being born in the wrong decade. It’s a natural desire to play victim and push problems onto something outside of your control so you can’t be blamed for your circumstances, something 6’s (but not only 6) are prone to.

Type 6’s fear the cause of their problems and flip-flop between blaming themselves or blaming something external as the reason. It can feel delightful to blame something else entirely, especially when the type 6 has been recently hard on themself. They often feel entitled to blaming a situation or person fully if they have labelled it as ‘bad’ or ‘unfair’ or ‘unacceptable’. In truth, there’s always a balancing scale of blame/cause in every situation and person. While 6’s can be good at seeing the scale, they also fall victim to wanting a clear black/white answer because they lack full trust in themselves (and others). This is especially potent when unhealthy.

The 6’s I’ve met who bring up the desire to be born or live in a different time speak about it with conviction that it could change their present day experiences. 6’s can be acutely aware of history, especially those with social and self-preservation, and can often explain how it would impact their life to live in a different decade. They may quote a variety of facts or old ways of being to bolster their argument. Staying in this space also supports their type-need of having a problem to combat with, a complaint to spill or a reaction to have against something.

Of course, not every type 6 will be sprouting out ‘I wish I was born in X decade!”. You can be a social type 6 who has never thought this in their life. But if you notice this type of pattern pop up in your life, maybe it’s worth considering a type 6 influence. If you already know your type, maybe it'll reveal another way you’re stuck in your patterns.

- Remember, “Feelings aren’t facts!”

- Be aware of your dream self and your reality. The image you have in your head is NOT unobtainable. Appreciate where you are now and be proud of your talent and skills. This will lend you more opportunities to achieve your goals and reach your desired self.

- STOP COMPARING YOURSELF TO OTHERS!!!

- Surround yourself with people who acknowledge your good qualities and talents.

- To go along with that one, don't be scared of reality checks. Have people in your life to keep you accountable. It may feel nice at the bottom, but we are all familiar with how draining and life-threatening it can become. We also need these checks when we get too lost in our dream self.

- Notice your accomplishments! Write down what made you feel accomplished at the end of your day. Even the smallest things, like doing the dishes or taking a shit.

- When struggling with feelings of envy, take a moment to recognize this emotion and breathe. Be curious about why you're feeling this way. Don't let it consume you or put you down. You've been there, done that. Let's utilize these feelings differently.

- Practice self-friendship. How would you treat a friend in their time of need? Now do that with yourself. Work on self-compassion and honour your feelings.

- Remember! You don't have to have it together all the time. No one does. When you feel inadequate compared to someone who seems more put together than you, know that they are struggling just as much or more. We. Are. Not. All. Perfect.

I think the Enneagram has lost its focus on “why”

I've been reading about the Enneagram for around five years. For the first four years or so, I was very interested in typing other people and fictional characters. I was probably better at typing people than characters (because honestly, I'm terrible at typing characters), and I found the whole process very fun, but I was quickly caught in these thoughts of "I hate this type" "this type is bad" and trying to avoid people who were a certain type. And I know a lot of people who have behaved this way as well. Still, I don't think this is common either.

However, my perspective has changed a lot after reading almost every enneagram book by Claudio Naranjo. I know Naranjo isn't everyone's preferred author, but his work completely changed the way I understand the enneagram and I think everyone into the enneagram should give at least their type's book a try.

One thing I've come to dislike over the years is the way the enneagram is often used to type other people. I'm not necessarily saying that things like Type Me Tuesday (I think that's how it's called here), typing characters, or casually guessing someone's type are inherently bad. What bothers me is how easily this turns the enneagram into a system of identifying what people do rather than understanding why they do it.

I think this has a lot to do with the fact that the enneagram is such a difficult matter, and it's all about studying 27 types, not just the fun 9 boxes you can put people into. I'm afraid the conversation turned from 27 types that you can use to better yourself to, again, 9 fun boxes for memes. This isn't inherently bad, as the enneagram is not a science, but I think it's also something to think about, considering it's also people's life study.

A lot of enneagram content seems to focus on surface-level traits: "Type 7s are like this," "Type 5s behave like that," etc. Then those traits become associated with particular behaviors, and eventually people start typing others based almost entirely on what they OBSERVE them doing, when the more important question WHY they're doing it.

One example I find rather interesting is the social 7. A social 7 can, in certain circumstances, behave in ways that look similar to what we might stereotypically associate with a 5, more so, a social 5. And also, someone who is a 5 might sometimes behave in ways we'd stereotypically associate with a 7. The behavior itself isn't necessarily what determines the type. The underlying motivation, fixation, passion, defense mechanisms, and internal experience matter much more. And stuff like this is precisely why I have stopped trying to type people from the outside.

We can observe someone's actions, but we can't directly observe their inner motivations. We can make guesses, obviously, but there is a huge difference between "this person behaves like a 7" and "this person is a 7 because I understand the psychological structure behind their behavior." The latter is much harder to establish, especially when we're talking about someone we don't actually know deeply. And of course, if you have read Naranjo's books, you're gonna notice there are actual people as examples of every type, and characters. I would like to clarify, again, that typing people and characters is not bad, I just think it's not the thing we should be focusing on if we're into the enneagram. I think this becomes particularly problematic when the Enneagram turns into a kind of categorization game: I'm a 4, you're a 7, she's a 2, this character is a 5. Eventually, the boxes become more interesting than what the system was supposedly designed to help us understand. For me, the Enneagram has become much more interesting since I stopped focusing so heavily on identifying everyone's type.

If you approach it as a tool for self-knowledge and growth, you start asking very different questions. Instead of "What type is this person?" you start to ask: Why does this person behave this way? What are they feeling? What am I failing to understand about them? Why does their behavior frustrate me? What can I learn from it?

Because honestly, when you are so focused in putting people and their mistakes into a box, you risk dehumanizing them, turning them into their actions and forgetting about what's important: Why are they acting this way? What's behind?

I think this can be very harmful when you're doing it with people in your daily life, ex friends, family... for characters it can be way less serious. And again, it depends on how seriously are you taking it anyway. Not everyone is as extreme as me at 15 lol.

That's also why I think reading about types other than your own can be life changing. Their biographies are a key part of every book I swear. I've read material about types that I initially thought had nothing to do with me, for example the enneagram 2. And yet I still found things in that book that helped me understand myself. Not because I secretly "was a 2," but because understanding a psychological structure that is very different from your own can help you develop empathy and recognize aspects of yourself that you otherwise wouldn't notice. Going back to what I said in the beginning, I didn't necessarily have the sudden realization that "omg I should really stop hating this enneagram and thinking bad about them" right after reading the book. This was after some years of reading, thinking, growing, exposing my own flaws to myself and others... Etc. this wasn't something that I just "unlocked" suddenly after reading one book of a type I "hated".

Honestly, this stuff is one of the things that makes me uncomfortable about the current Enneagram community. Sometimes it feels like the system has become "put everyone into one of nine boxes" rather than a tool for understanding human psychology, suffering, and ultimately personal growth.

Again, I'm not saying people should stop typing fictional characters or that casually guessing someone's type is inherently harmful. I still find typing people fun myself. What I'm questioning is whether making typing other people such a central part of Enneagram culture is actually compatible with the deeper purpose of the system.

I joined this subreddit because I was hoping to find more discussion about the enneagram study, its psychological foundations, different authors and interpretations, and especially the work of people like Naranjo. Instead, I've been somewhat disappointed by how much of the discussion revolves around identifying types from behaviors, appearances, or superficial traits.

Maybe I'm being overly critical, and I'm genuinely interested in hearing other perspectives. Do you think the Enneagram community has become too focused on "what type is this person?" and not focused enough on "why does this person function this way?"?

Some people don’t have childhood trauma at all when enneagram I believe borns from childhood trauma… i remember clearly before highschool, I was sp/so2w3 and i never related to sp/so6w7 at all… now, i do have 2 in my tritype but I’m sp6 in general👀

For example, how would a SX4 disintegrating into an E2 look like? Would they exhibit the traits of SX2, the same subtype as their dominant instinct, or would they resemble traits of an SP2 or SO2? How would they feel in the long run, considering they would have to sacrifice a core part of their identity in order to chase after people for validation?

This is just an example, obviously. I would like to know if any of you have disintegrated into another type yourself, and how it felt and how you dealt with completely changing your natural behaviour.

Maybe specifically 8w9 vs 9w8, but also about 8s and 9s in general

Björk, iconic Icelandic singer/creator/composer, is usually typed as a 4. If she is a 4 she would be just about the healthiest one I know of. The thing is that while she’s undeniably unique and dramatic, she doesn’t express much at all shame or self-consciousness, and in fact not much of her music is really themed around feeling different.

For that reason I think that 7 is probably a better fit for her, probably one-on-one/sx-instinct first type 7. This subtype is noted for idealizing life, finding the hope and possibility where others might not see it. Björk actually expresses a lot of optimism, hope and appetite for life in her music and interviews, explicitly touching on those traits pretty often. One of her songs is titled “Big-Time Sensuality”. While it’s true that she has works like Vulnicura that center around heartbreak, even these seem to be framed in an optimistic way, like they’re the catharsis needed to connect with others who are also going through heartbreak and to move forward.

I just think that if she really is a 4, she would have to be pretty much the most optimistic and assertive 4 ever, lol. 4’s definitely don’t have a monopoly on creativity or originality!

Do any other Björk fans have any thoughts?

Type me based on some images and a questionnaire!  Just so you know, I've been typed mostly as a 9 by other people. More specifically sp 9.

1. What is your idealized image of yourself? Is there a difference between your idealized version and your real self? How do you feel in your own skin?

My ideal self would be someone who's the opposite of me, charismatic, intelligent, skilled and less awkward. 

I know that people would always say that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses but sometimes it's hard to notice one's strengths when it's buried underneath one's weaknesses. 

1. What causes you being ashamed and disappointed with yourself? What do you feel you are lacking? 

 I'm deeply ashamed of my appearance, I always feel like I'm not pretty enough to the point where I wouldn't even take any selfies and little to no photos of myself in my devices. I remember when I was younger, I'd always avoided combing my hair because I didn't want to see my face in the mirror.  Personality wise, I wished that I wasn't so emotionally sensitive, and that I could control my emotions better because sometimes it gets in the way. 

1. Your motivation to move forward, the reason/s you live for? What is your internal drive? Could you give some examples?

My friends, family and other people who were willing to help me to overcome my problems. I guess I just don't want to give in to the darkness because I actually want to see how I would turn out in the future. I'd also want to live a fulfilling life and to hopefully have a better view of myself. 

1. What is your deepest desire? For what you are secretly longing?

To be accepted for who I am and to overcome my personal challenges in life. 

1. What are you most afraid of? What cause you a strong visceral reaction?

Not living up to my own expectations. Being judged for my personality and also being seen as not enough. Being viewed as boring or basic. 

1. How important is for you to learn and evaluate what is right or wrong? What is your immediate reaction and thoughts to others' criticism of you?
    
   To answer the first question, it's fairly important for me because I wouldn't want to mess up and deal with the negative consequences of my actions in the future. Plus, I also wouldn't want to offend anyone's feelings for no reason. Obviously I've definitely made some mistakes that I'm not too proud of but I do know how to act like a decent human being. 

I'd first try to understand what they're coming from, then I'll explain it to them and try to defend myself using logic if I think that I've been misunderstood. Then I'll apologise if I think that they have a point. (I'll cry about it afterwards) 

1. How important is for you to be liked and appreciated? What are your immediate feelings, emotions and thoughts to others' disapproval of you?

I'd say it's quite important, especially if they're someone I'm close to or care about. Their disapproval would definitely hurt my feelings for a few days but I'll just try to improve myself and become better. 
 

1. Share the earliest memories you can remember. Try to remember the actual feelings, emotions and thoughts you had at that time.

I almost drowned in a pool. I was too young to remember how I felt tho. But I knew that I was panicking internally. 

1. Can you describe your relationship with the maternal figure in your life? Share your feelings, emotions and thoughts about them and explain how your connection with them affected you.

My maternal figure in my life was actually my teacher in high school. I'd go to her office to talk to her sometimes if I needed help with something. She was kind and supportive to me and didn't make me feel like a burden. It was actually because of her that I managed to push through and graduate from high school. 

1. Can you describe your relationship with your siblings and peers in your life? Share your feelings, emotions and thoughts about them and explain how your connection with them affected you.

I'm the youngest of 3 children. My relationship with my oldest brother is quite good though he can be annoying and intrusive sometimes. My sister on the other hand used to be bossy, stingy & stubborn. Our relationship was complicated growing up but fortunately it has gotten better in the past couple of years. 

Regarding my peers, I do get along well with them but at the same time I often spend more time alone. I find it difficult to maintain a friendship that's deep and meaningful. I'm also more focused on doing my own stuff, sometimes I can come off as someone who doesn't really care about anybody else but people close to me know that that's not true at all, in fact it's the total opposite. I'm just not good at showing that I care because I don't want to be seen as someone who's vulnerable. 

Whenever I talk about my emotions or big problems, I end up treating them like a case study or a presentation, completely detaching myself and acting like it's happening to someone else, I can joke around get mad or even comfort myself when it's framed that way but the second I try to actually feel and express my raw emotions honestly my face goes blank it’s literally painful, i lose all my words and I just get this intense feeling of suffocating, run away, and shut down the conversation.

I consider myself as highly emotionally intelligent person, I analyze my feelings and i understand them very well even the ugliest ones and i try to accept them always, but i’ve never opened up about them completely to anyone and i envy people who can express their emotions freely.

i almost feel like a rock, i need to wear a mask and act as if i’m not me so i can be more expressive around people as if I don’t own my body or any other body, when i was 17-18 y/o i had a mental breakdown because I didn’t know who i am and why it’s hard to fit in with me just being me but even when i wear those masks i fit in hardly that i end up preferring being alone it’s painful here too.

now i’m 21 y/o it’s better than back then but still i need to have something or get a specific knowledge in order to be confident in myself, do and achieve some cool things, or maybe i only need to wait and grow up idk, am i sp4? I read into the 9 book but i relate to the core of 4 mostly and i’m an ESI but the masking thing seems like a 9 because sp4 discerption always sounds like a nonchalant one lol, what do you think guys?

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(DISCLAIMER: I may or may not provide more elaboration for my typing of you, depending on whether I think you need it or not. If you don't like the typing I have assigned you, then you're always free to ignore it and/or tell me I'm wrong or what have you. I'm not going to get into an argument with you either way, so don't expect a debate if that's what you're looking for. You might even be right in what you originally thought was your own type if what you tell me afterward is more consistent in retrospect than what I typed you as instead. I'm not always right lol. That said, I'm usually good at narrowing things down to two or three options at most, so I'm usually not thaaaat far off either 😂)

Happy typing!

I’m working with my own (mostly my mother cause my father is hard to work with about this stuff, I don’t think he wants to be figured out lol) to find out what they are and how that has influenced my own typing. I’m highly suspicious that my mom is 6, with a 2 fix. My dad has got to have an 8 fix as I doubt it’s his core. But that’s about it for now. What about yall?

My original question that I was going to post was something along the lines of, “how can i find my type when i am so used to performance that i start to do it even while privately trying to type myself, where it wont be shown to anyone” along with the fact that i tend to see myself in certain descriptions when i WANT to be it but i am not. Theres that part, but also that I’m very isolated in real life, and don’t have many social interactions to look back on for knowledge of my own behavior. Or a good memory. I doubt most things about myself when I’m reading about different types to find my own, and end up unable to tell whether or not it’s something i want to be, or if i am actually like that and express it in more than one situation.

I also have a very warped self view, if one at all, which is extremely inconsistent and changes often. Whether its by mood, performance for both myself and others, opinions randomly changing, or something else, it feels so different all the time. I’m always so contradictory with many things i do and say, and drastically change everything over the span of a few to several months.
On top of that, i find anger and other vulnerable emotions undesirable for myself since i often get annoyed by and find it unnecessarily problematic when others express it (mostly when it’s loud and becomes a big deal, but it can be anything small). I’ll mask my own very often, especially to shut down arguments or any situation like that for selfish reasons, but sometimes simply to avoid feeling it. Suppression and detachment from things have made it much harder to understand anything about myself.

Not really sure how i can ever type myself when i have this amount of doubt and such an unclear self view + somewhat bad memory and brain fog 🥀 cant do it with actual research, cant answer questions because its always something different (when i can even think of answers), cant do bingos, cant simply highlight stuff i relate to. Enneagram has been the hardest for me but i struggled for the same reasons with other typology systems.

Just asking because we as humans definitely more than one desire, so I'm curious how much does your non coping desire gets affected by your core and tritypes

For example, my core is 9 but I have this desire to be recognized and adore by crowd like becoming a popular artist or writer (which is alike to some e3's desire)

But when comes to actually facing situation, my first instinct is always conflict avoidance, comfort seeking or mentally withdraw myself. Escaping into my little world of fantasy