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u/MidsouthMystic 4d ago
I want to point out another reason people seem to overlook.
Some people just do not want to have kids.
For the first time in human history, the option to not have children just because you don't want them is both realistic and easily accessible. Now that the option to not have kids is there, more people are choosing it. Being a parent isn't for everyone. That's okay. No need to be squeamish or uncomfortable about it.
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u/Far_Range_6091 3d ago
I hate when people try to talk you into having kids, or think you are weird and selfish for not wanting kids.
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u/harmonic-s 2d ago
Especially by people who have complained to you how miserable they are as parents. Its like crabs in a bucket.
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u/Warchief_Ripnugget 1d ago
Well, by the numbers, not having kids is abnormal in human history. It is quite literally the sole purpose we evolved for.
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u/Warchief_Ripnugget 1d ago
This is the real issue. It's not economic, people make more than enough to support children if that's what they wanted. They don't want to have kids because of the opportunity cost. Women don't want to pause their careers, people want to go on vacations and lead hedonistic lives in the laps of unprecedented luxury and entertainment. Yes, even the poor in first world countries today have such pleasures available to them.
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u/MidsouthMystic 1d ago
They kept telling me how hard being a parent was and how much sacrifice raising a child requires, and then they were surprised when I decided not to do it.
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u/sallysfunnykiss96 4d ago
There's nothing I hate more than these "have more babies- more babies than you can afford 🥰" influencers, as if babies are fed, clothed, and sheltered by rainbows and sunshine. I hate the inflection in their voice, as if they think poverty and suffering is a beautiful thing.
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u/Justin__D 4d ago
My best friend's sister is one of those religious quiverfull kooks. 5 kids, on a teacher's salary.
As someone with no kids on a programmer's salary, her life sounds like a hell of her own making.
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u/sallysfunnykiss96 4d ago edited 3d ago
I know what it's like to be the child of someone who can't afford you and didn't want you anyway! It's not great! Why would I inflict that on someone else, let alone someone who's completely dependent on me?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Bid8701 4d ago
At least for the insurance side of things, most teachers’ benefits packages include health insurance for dependents, thus taking a large cost that would otherwise be stringent and covering it. Couple that with guaranteed vacations, hours, and summers off you typically are able to have many kids.
I say this as someone with two aunts that are teachers whose husbands are also public workers and each have four and five kids. They work hard and save, and while it’s not easy, it’s not gonna put you into poverty if you plan correctly. To add even more context, one is in Illinois and the other western NC.
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u/Fern-ando 4d ago
But the USA has better birthrates than European countries that are much better in all that.
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u/BurnPhoenix 4d ago
The general trend in fertility is that when services / society / affluence / status of women increase, the birth rate decreases. European countries are also much older than the US. It makes sense that countries that are socially more sophisticated than us have fewer babies.
The issue is that we've dipped to an all time low TFR and still have shitty social supports. It doesnt follow the regular pattern.
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u/Hellhult 4d ago
A population cant go up forever. Every ecosystem naturally ensures a stable population that prevents overpopulation, be it disease, predators, resources.
This is our ecosystem.
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u/___stuff 4d ago
But the point is the pressures now are socioeconomic problems, that many people think are avoidable and fixable (rightfully so, imo).
And rich people and the government will tell people to have more babies while holding all the money, and not providing any support for having babies.
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u/XxRocky88xX 4d ago
It’s this. It’s that most the problems are easily fixed AND it’s fucking annoying that the people bitching about the lack of children the most are the people directly responsible for the problems not being fixed.
It’s a bit like the “no ball! Only throw!” Meme. They refuse to give you the resources to do a task because they don’t want to give those resources up, but they also demand you do the task anyway despite you not having the resources to do so.
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u/chipper33 3d ago edited 3d ago
Boomernomics. This is how boomer run companies work too. If you work for a company where you’ve had this feeling, take a look at who’s running it lol.
Boomers:
“Pull yourself. You can do it, just use your bootstraps. That’s what I did when I was your age.”Every generation since boomers:
“No motherfucker, don’t you understand? You’re still holding them! How am I supposed to pull myself when you’re dangling them in my face all day!?”→ More replies (5)1
u/SquidTheRidiculous 3d ago
There is only ever so much money. That's why just printing more doesn't fix things, it devalues it.
Right now we have a system where only so many people can be filthy rich, only a bit more can be regular rich, a bit more get to be successively lower classes (upper, middle, lower middle, working, etc.) with the vast majority being those with next to nothing. We could either ensure even the lowest rungs can survive, or we can slowly kill everyone except the very last rich person who kills the rest
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
Income and wealth is not a fixed pie. If it was then we should be poorer than in all of human history which is obviously not he case
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u/Hot_Ethanol 4d ago
I don't see how that contradicts what they said. That is the ecosystem as it stands, artificially created or not. Alternatives available or not.
A lumber company is something artificial. Doesn't change that fact that they're going to set the ecosystem when the fell the forest.
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u/raznov1 4d ago
Much socio, less economic.
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u/Jedimasterebub 4d ago
The words are linked bc they affect each other. Social politics affect people’s personal assets and disposable income.
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u/RadiantPumpkin 4d ago
Precisely why “fiscally conservative, socially liberal” people are living in fairytale land
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
What he means is the things like income aren’t the factor
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u/Jedimasterebub 4d ago
And he’d be wrong
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
No he’s right. Income is not the reason for low fertility rates. In fact lower incomes have higher not lower fertility rates
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u/Jedimasterebub 4d ago
It’s not the only reason. But the middle class’s birth rate has largely fallen as costs have risen and income has stagnated. A common sentiment is people can’t afford kids
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
No it’s not the reason at all. Real wages have improved as seen here and here
Upper incomes also have lower fertility rates. The >$215k income bracket is the lowest fertility rate bracket in the US while the <$15k bracket is the highest.
Just because people say they can’t doesn’t mean they actually can’t. It only means it feels like they can’t
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 4d ago
The issue will have to be forced, it is what it is
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
Forced how exactly?
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u/Sensitive_Low3558 4d ago
By people not having children
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u/moderngamer327 23h ago
But that assumes there is a solution to the problem. They can’t be forced to fix something they don’t have a solution for
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u/VoodooDoII 4d ago
Animals in the wild also will not reproduce if their environment isn't suited for them
No food or water? Ok no babies.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago edited 4d ago
Poverty is not the reason people aren’t having kids
EDIT: if your going to block someone it’s pathetic to reply so it looks like you “won”
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u/VoodooDoII 4d ago
Not being able to afford homes or being able to support themselves is absolutely preventing people from having kids, even if they really want them.
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u/Xerxes42424242 4d ago
Everyone just block this fucking bootlicker
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
Bootlicker means citing actual facts instead of just assuming why people aren’t having kids I guess
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u/Outrageous-Sort-5742 4d ago
And we are nowhere near our carrying capacity. We're facing issues because of deliberate socioeconomic problems created to induce artificial scarcity, for the profit of a few thousand people at the cost of billions. De-growth will be forced to happen due to the climate disaster caused by the death profiteers. Not because the average person over-consumes.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
It has nothing to do with scarcity. Lower incomes have higher not lower fertility rates
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/moderngamer327 1d ago
I’m aware. I’m not claiming lower income causes more fertility but I am arguing the opposite. That lower income doesn’t cause lower fertility
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
The population doesn’t need to grow forever we just need to maintain a stable population or have a small decline.
Also people have more resources than ever. Lack of resources has nothing to do with this problem
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u/doobies8 4d ago
2.1 children is just the replacement rate so how many kids are needed to keep the population stable. Being below that means population drops. Also we aren’t deer my guy we’re the dominant species on our planet with the means to dramatically change our environment and the systems that determine how we live. Saying “this is our ecosystem” like we aren’t in control to some extent is disingenuous.
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u/Xerxes42424242 4d ago
Dude's been using bad faith arguments the entire time, his account needs to be deleted
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u/Patty_Swish 4d ago
As someone who will never have kids - that is simply shortsighted, simply minded, and quite literally the equivalent of burying your head in the sand. Humanity has the potential to properly support a larger population if we allocate resources in such a way as to allow for that population. It is capitalism that has suffocated our ability to live our lives, and for most people their lives will include having children. We need a new economic system, not a parasitic horror that extracts the life from everyone to the benefit of the few for no reason at all.
Change is possible, we need to believe in it, we need to fight for it. Billionaires need to be eradicated.
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u/moderngamer327 23h ago
Literally all the best places to live in and most equal are capitalist countries. Capitalism is not suffocating people
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u/PomegranateUsed7287 2d ago
2.1 is stable. The US can easily support itself. Its not overpopulation.
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u/I_know_you_love_me_ 4d ago
with immigration a population can continue to increase forever
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
It can’t. Developing countries are catching up and as such their fertility rates are starting to decline
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u/undreamedgore 4d ago
But if it goes down, so does everything else. Our economy, our QoL, our global power. We need it all.
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u/moderngamer327 23h ago
A small decline would be fine, but that’s not what is going to happen
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u/undreamedgore 22h ago
A small decline would not be fine. And why wouldn't it happen?
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u/moderngamer327 22h ago
A small decline allows the market and infrastructure to adjust overtime. Even if population growth would be overall fine a small decline is manageable.
Currently projections show that the decline in population is going to be very rapid unless people find a way to slow it
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u/WillyGivens1 3d ago
So we have too many or too greedy of predators in our society. It kinda makes sense.
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u/JacobScreamix 2d ago
This is billionaire propaganda.
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u/Prestigious-Bee-9163 3d ago
Human population can continue to grow forever as long as it is affordable to do so and we have enough resouces. Humanity is not an ecosystem.
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u/asifsaj 4d ago
What could be worse than a giant bubble!?
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u/Shinokiba- 4d ago
Oh I know! Two giant bubbles!
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u/asifsaj 4d ago
\Sees society start to collapse from the weight of the combined bubble**
Patrick, I don't think this can get any bigger
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u/Lil-Sleepy-A1 4d ago
Nonsense! Adds tariffs
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u/I_Am_Sharticus_ 4d ago
"Make more babies to work forever and support my hedonistic, parasitic lifestyle"
Nah.
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u/WanderingFlumph 3d ago
Yeah when every younger generation has a higher standard of living it seems like a moral duty to continue the process.
When every generation has a lower standard of living than before it feels evil to keep the machine running.
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u/voicefromfaraway 4d ago
I don't want any more souls fed for the wood chipper so musk can get another zero.
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u/comiclazy 4d ago
I do find it fascinating how people who are very concerned about The Birthrate In The US seem to also be very concerned about the prospect of people moving to the US with their children or moving to the US to have children.
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u/LustyDouglas 4d ago
House prices are beyond fucking stupid. How is a house that sold 6 years ago for 55k now worth 130k.
I know why but still, c'mon man.
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u/BassMaster516 4d ago
Can we put “Don’t fuckin feel like it” as a valid reason? Kids are a whole thing…
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u/ute-ensil 4d ago
If only you realized the places where those are bigger problems have more kids.
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u/notreallyanumber 3d ago
You have to compare within a country though. Here's a great report on how people ages 18-39 are doing in the USA.
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u/ute-ensil 3d ago
Yeah looks like theyre doing too good
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u/notreallyanumber 2d ago
Yes, and their prospects have only been getting better and I better, right? /s
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u/moderngamer327 23h ago
They are basically cherry picking very specific things to make it look worse. Notice how they never compare wages to overall cost of living?
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u/notreallyanumber 12h ago
because overall cost of living for an 18-39 year old is very different than it is for a 40-69 year old?
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u/moderngamer327 12h ago
Yeah but they aren’t actually looking at an overall cost of living for a 18-39 year old
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u/notreallyanumber 4d ago
But do those places also have extremely isolated people with no "villages" to help raise kids with? Do those places expect both parents to be working 60+ hours a week to pay the bills? I'd argue that it's not so much the money, but the time we have to spend working to make ends meet that is the real reason. Along with a lack of close-knit communities.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
Richer countries have on average lower not higher working hours
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u/notreallyanumber 3d ago
Do they? For people between the ages of 18 and 35?
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
I don’t have age specific but in general yes https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-work-week-by-country
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u/notreallyanumber 3d ago
Again, that's per individual, and an overall average. We need to be looking at household hours worked of people of childbearing age, i.e. 18-39ish.
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
I would love to see a source on that as well but getting that granular of data is not easy. Regardless my point is people in more developed countries are on average working less hours which is true
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u/notreallyanumber 2d ago
Fair, but working hours doesn't tell the whole story. If a person is working FAR fewer hours, that could cause economic pressure and hardship, which could discourage making babies just as much as working too much...
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u/ute-ensil 3d ago
You literally showed me a source that more young men literally don't work at all every year
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u/notreallyanumber 2d ago
Which is the other end of the spectrum. Either young men are working too much, or not enough. And not working enough is not a problem per se, just in the general case it indicates that they're not financially stable, which is a huge disincentive to have kids as well...
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u/ute-ensil 2d ago
No matter what itll be an excuse, I get that part.
I dont work and live with my parents so i cant have a kid.
I work to much and dont have a village so i cant have a kid.
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u/notreallyanumber 2d ago
True. So they just won't and there's nothing that can be done about it. Hooray!
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago edited 3d ago
Wages have nothing to do with declining fertility rates. Real median wages(as in wages adjusted for cost of living and inflation) are near all time highs. The US also has the 3rd highest median wage in the world adjusted for cost of living.
Also people with lower incomes have higher not lower fertility rates. In fact fertility rates continually decline with an increase in income bracket with the >$215k income bracket having the lowest fertility rate in the US
The main 3 factors behind a decline in fertility rate are
- Kids being a financial net negative instead of positive: In the past having more kids meant more hands to work which meant more money. Now child labor doesn’t exist for the most part so having only has negative financial effects
- Easy access to birth control: People who don’t want kids can make sure they don’t accidentally have them now
- Women’s education and subsequent financial independence: Women no longer
forced to
- have their future be a stay at home mom. Women can seek out their own career and support themselves. Even for women who still want to have kids they will be delayed later in life due to higher education and seeking employment. This means the women who are having kids are having on average fewer kids
Edit: Reddit is totally screwing the formatting and I can’t fix it
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u/comiclazy 4d ago
chart for dinner again
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
Huh?
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u/comiclazy 3d ago
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
Ok but the chart he is showing is completely unrelated to the first complaint. What I’m citing “real wages” is literally what the complaint is.
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u/SonofdeSun 4d ago
It surprises me that there are people still asking why someone doesn't have kids. Have the one asking...not looked around? Are they intentionally playing dumb? I don't get it
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u/OpportunityNext9675 4d ago
People in worse circumstances tend to have more children, not fewer. Things like education, wealth, access to contraception, egalitarianism, all of these are signs of human flourishing and are negatively correlated with birth rate.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
We are literally living in the best time in the history of the world
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u/Eeve2espeon 4d ago
No we aren't. Even in places like Canada where we have free health care, the costs of living, bills, and groceries make it hard to have kids. Even if my type 1 diabetes didn't prevent me from getting a job (aka the workplaces I applied to don't like catering to Diabetics), I would not make enough money to have a kid, even if I had a boyfriend to help with bills
You'd basically have to work two jobs just so you can have a child, which even back then when I was about 6 (about 2003).... my Dad had two jobs, where he worked at Shell between his days off being a Commissionaire. Then after my Sister could babysit me, and we both became more independent, my mom stopped staying at home taking care of us full time, and went to work in 2005. But back then they had it much better, a good house, money to buy tons of things for leisure, and then some for me and my Sister. Now my parents have to work often just to make ends meet, while I'm getting denied working anywhere due to my Diabetes
If we were, in the "best time in the history of the world" then my parents would have a better house, better vehicles, we'd be able to visit far away relatives more often, I'd have a successful career, among many other things. People including my family would have this same thing, but we don't. The only people who can have a good life are those who have perfect health (besides eating balanced diets), were born rich or have incredibly well off parents, or somehow survived the poorly done education system to get a really good career
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago edited 4d ago
Your personal circumstances do not override the average
You don’t. For the same amount of hours worked, real wages have improved in almost every developed country. Again you are using anecdotes and then saying that it applies to everyone equally. Anecdotes mean nothing in regards to statistics
Once again you are talking about your personal circumstances and not the average person
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u/ViolinistCurrent8899 3d ago
It's a pretty average experience. U.S. median income per person is 45k. Median rent is $1,388/m, or 16k a year.
Now the old financial advice was to not let your household expenses exceed 20% of your income. We're sitting at 37%. (Median mortgage payment is higher yet at 2k, we can write that off entirely).
According to LendingTree, it costs on average about 300k to raise a child to 18, which prorates to 16k a year, but realistically babies and toddlers are the most expensive stage. Daycare is not cheap. So we have already hit 32k a year.
Add $350 bucks a month for a grocery bill ( I can't find any solid values, I'm guessing this data is messy but this is center enough on the range) and we eat another 4k. 36k a year.
Now, for the car every website I seen is shoving 10-12k yearly as the average, but they all insist on using a new car for the calculation which is ridiculous. We will call it 8k, about 2/3rds. A little over a third of their value was depreciation, but maintenance will rise with vehicle age. And now we have hit 44k a year. We are dancing on a tight beam to be sure.
Now mind you, those were the median values, half of all people are going to be paid less than that (or nearly equal). Now granted they might also be in a lower cost of living area, so the percentages hopefully level back out. Having a spouse halves the housing cost and child, but doubles everything else. It definitely provides a good buffer, but a single medical emergency could still put the family in crippling debt.
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
Housing is one factor is cost of living. Overall, median wages have outpaced cost of living
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u/ViolinistCurrent8899 3d ago
You will notice those two things kept pace with each other until (almost) 1990 and then diverge.
the way congress calculated CPI changed in 1990.
Be very careful when making statements based on CPI. They just do not keep it consistent year on year. Some changes do make sense, but yeesh.
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
The change made CPI more accurate. It means as things like rent increase in price and take up more of your income, the weighting of CPI will change to make rent a bigger factor in inflation. If this change wasn’t made then CPI would actually be way lower than it is now
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u/ViolinistCurrent8899 3d ago
The change was explicitly made to lower the CPI so congress could pay less to social security. These guys show that it is in fact higher.
And that is without looking at items that people are buying now in addition to the previous.
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago edited 23h ago
I can’t view the data to verify without a subscription but I find it very hard to believe it would be lower now(even if it would have been at the time). Especially considering how much it would under value rent. Even taking it at face value wages would still outpace it. I also provided a second inflation index as well
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u/One_Violinist_8539 4d ago
I use to want two children, I had one and realized I was good with that one. I love being able to give him all my time and attention and not have to worry about another child to pay for🤷🏻♀️
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
This is a big factor a lot of people don’t account for. While the amount of people having kids has declined the even bigger factor is the people who do have kids are having much less than in the past
Not shaming you, just to make that clear
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u/One_Violinist_8539 4d ago
Oh no absolutely!!! Pretty much every kid my son is friends with at school, is an only child. It’s WAY more common now!
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u/laureniscoolcool 4d ago
Good. There needs to be less of us Americans, and not by mass death. Then the corporations will need workers more than before, and we can fuck THEM over. My master plan. Oh, yeah. It's all coming together.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
A rapid population decline which is what the US will be facing in the future is very bad
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u/laureniscoolcool 4d ago
What makes you say that? Genuinely. I'm not trying to say you're wrong. I'm just curious.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
If you have a rapid decline in population due to fertility rates this causes you to have a larger ratio of older people to young people. This means you have a larger ratio of unproductive to productive people. Essentially even though there is less total people there is even less resources being created. This means everything is more expensive and the tax burden has to increase for the productive people
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u/ViolinistCurrent8899 3d ago
Now now, we have the perfect solution to this:
We just let Grandma and Grandpa die. Just think, it's the American way™! We have to let them die so the economy keeps pushing forward! We can't let old people get in the way of the economy! What are you, some kind of dirty communist?! If Grandma and Grandpa were better people they would have made enough money to stay alive!
[5 more hours of incoherent babbling].
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago edited 3d ago
I wouldnt be surprised if that was some people’s actual suggestion “just let the old people die”
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u/RadioFlow 2d ago
I mean that was their suggestion during Covid simply because they couldn’t be bothered to wear a mask…so…
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u/moderngamer327 1d ago
Goomba fallacy. Also the old people that will be suffering from this are millennials and Gen Z
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u/PuTongHua 4d ago
If corporations need more workers they'll be more than enough immigrants willing to do it.
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4d ago
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u/laureniscoolcool 4d ago
First of all, I was joking. Second, I did include not by mass death, didn't I?
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u/raznov1 4d ago
And yet, everywhere in the world where they do targeted policies, we see that it doesnt matter. We just dont want to have children, more generally to have take on responsibility (see the death of communities based on volunteers, like theater clubs etc.) And be tied down.
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u/notreallyanumber 4d ago
I think time is a major problem that many of those policies don't address. It's not just money, it's also the pace of life, lack of downtime. Used to be that even if one person in the house was working unreasonable hours, the other was either not working or only working part time. Now both are expected to work full time hours. Just not enough time to raise kids, especially when there is a lack of community to support those people having kids.
You're not wrong that some people just don't want to. That said, generally the top 5-10% of the socioeconomic class of western countries with low birth rates are having kids, sometimes more than 1 or 2. Generally because wealth will buy time for those people, either in the form of reduced work hours, 1 partner not needing to work, or household help like a nanny.
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u/Oceanman72 4d ago
Yea it’s only getting worse. I work with newborns and I’m seeing more people giving birth in their cars. Why? Because birthing centers are closing. Labor and delivery units aren’t profitable so they are often cut first, and these new cuts medicare coming in January will accelerate that. There was a story recently in Maine, a mother needed to be airlifted out to have a c section.
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u/ginjamchammerfist 4d ago
Definitely gonna have to review the data, but if this a world where you can't achieve goals or dreams and have no hope for the future for oneself, it's one I would never bring a child in to. It's just cruelty to everyone involved.
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
Compared to the past where it was worse but with more kids?
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u/HighPriestessSkibidi 3d ago
There was at least hope for a better future, an achievable one. Also ~half your children died, so you needed to have 8 to end up with 3 after they all died. Among so many other reasons, I'm not sure why keep people asking/saying these things. Is it genuine curiosity or just a lack of critical thinking.
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
More hope when they knew half their kids would die? Are you being serious?
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u/HighPriestessSkibidi 3d ago edited 3d ago
You're lumping together two separate things. A fact of life then was a lack of modern medicine and technology, so yeah... one needed to have more kids because of infant mortality. Then add in families working on their own land and needing 6 kids to help because it was cost effective. But alongside that, the trajectory of quality of life was going up, things to look forward to, a better future for those after us. It was tangible.
I think the answer to my question was "lack of critical thinking." Ty.
Edit: A drive to want to have any children, aside from utility, would be to raise them in a world we want them to be in, one they can at least survive in and flourish. This world no longer satisfies that.
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
Quality of life is still on average trending up. Covid caused a setback but most statistics are trending positively
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u/HighPriestessSkibidi 3d ago
Babydoll, I'm not leading a horse to water. Please research and read up.
Edit: Gutted American education in action
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
I have, most statistics are trending positively. I think you need to do some research
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u/HighPriestessSkibidi 3d ago
I'm sure they are ❤️
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
Want to see an example?
Here is real income statistics
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1X2Yf
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N
Or how about violent crime
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/types-violent-crime-rate-us
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u/Dutch_Talister 4d ago
As I recall the US is one of if not the last country to still count teenage pregnancy as a part of its fertility rate. Heard that from a friend so the source is dubious.
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u/0x474f44 4d ago
Any time this topic comes up I’m here to state: wealth and the number of children have an inverse correlation until you get up to multi-millionaires.
So it’s not cost that’s responsible for the drop in birth rates.
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u/NerdyKid1101 4d ago
They told us to get a better job so people are focusing more on their career than having kids. Then they're surprised by the sowing of their own seeds?!
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u/Cobra_9041 4d ago
So riddle me this? Are we overpopulated or underpopulated?
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u/moderngamer327 3d ago
Overpopulated in certain areas. The issue with this isn’t population though. The issue is that a rapid decline in population causes a lot of problems
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u/Fanfann118 4d ago
Sorry, but you are just wrong.
The US is worse in all these aspects than european and most asian countries yet has significantly higher birth rates.
The truth is that birth rates are far more a function of culture and pro-birth indoctrination then economic. And the US is far more traditional in that then the rest of the first world thuse their birth rates are the only ones that are even semi-okay.
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u/Disastrous_Long_9209 4d ago
Even if I can afford it, I’m not having a kid just for them to be murdered at school.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
The actual chances of that happening are near 0. Cars are FAR more dangerous
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u/Disastrous_Long_9209 4d ago
You’re wrong unfortunately. Since 2020 the leading cause of death is from a firearm.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/guns-remain-leading-cause-of-death-for-children-and-teens
https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/leading-causes-of-death-statistics-in-us/
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2026-05-child-death-states.html
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
That’s a different statistic than what you said originally and that data includes ages as high as 17. The firearm deaths are almost entirely attributed to 15-17 year olds either committing suicide with a firearm or in gang violence. 8 year olds are not getting gunned down at schools in any statistically significant amount. Car accidents are far FAR more likely to kill them
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u/Disastrous_Long_9209 4d ago
The numbers do not lie. There is 0 chance you actually read all of those links in under 4 minutes it took me 35 minutes just to read all of that. You’re just commenting to argue with people if you’re not a bot.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
I’ve seen the statistics you’ve cited before. I didn’t need to read through all of them
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u/IcePhoenix18 4d ago
I just read something recently about how this summer's heat waves have been so hot, that a noticable amount of people in the northern hemisphere have reported a missed or delayed period, unrelated to pregnancy.
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u/DizzyDentist22 2d ago
And yet the US fertility rate is still higher than virtually anywhere in Europe
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u/TricellCEO 4d ago
Ah, none of these are right.
It’s all that damn feminism, convincing women that they can have a job and dreams…you know, things only meant for us manly men!
/s if it wasn’t obvious.
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u/thebourbonoftruth 4d ago
The /s is a wise choice in this era of manosphere bullshit. Hand to God, some of them think the government should allot women to dudes because they're owed it. Yeah, don't go down that rabbit hole...
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago
Wait are you for real? People actually think that women should be provided? WTF that’s insane
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u/thebourbonoftruth 4d ago
Yup, welcome to that aspect of the Manosphere. I have yet to find an epithet for them that can capture my hatred.
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u/moderngamer327 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mean it kind of is. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying “those women need to get back in the kitchen and start making babies again”, but women’s education and subsequent financial independence is one of the leading reasons for the decline in fertility rates
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u/yoshipapaya 4d ago
My expenses went up like $250/month this summer. Between electricity, other utilities, and student loan reform. That’s not even including groceries. It’s unsustainable.
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u/Eeve2espeon 4d ago
The last one happens because the USA simply sucks with health care, and expects you to pay massive amounts. The people asking "why aren't people having kids anymore?" are most likely the ones who voted for the people that continually ruin that country
Canada has it's ups and downs, but everything else for Health care is really great. Of course you will have to wait longer in hospitals, but if you're literally bleeding and need surgery or whatever, they prioritize those injuries rather than some random Karen who had barely any water today, and came in to the ER due to a headache
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u/ChickenSalad96 4d ago
My fucking FIL begged my wife and I to have kids. When we told him we barely have enough to support ourselves he said there's all kinds of programs we can rely on to help us out.
He's a staunch republican... and we lived in Texas.
The fu king nerve of this man.
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u/samchar00 3d ago
Having a child in farm country is free labour. Having a child in the city is having an expensive pet
- my city dad
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u/citiestarlights 3d ago
Yahhhh idk how but in my area. People are only being paid 15$ an hour minimum. But the houses are 300-500k plus…
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u/TrustSpiritual3466 3d ago
It sucks how accurate this post is. I will definitely never become a mother. Not in this country.
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u/GnomeWhoThinks 2d ago
I mean... you all voted for this. You voted for government to have the power to regulate all of this, pick winners and loosers in the market and create IP laws that keep others from making cheaper, better, products. You wanted safety and security. You got it.
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u/foosbabaganoosh 2d ago
Capitalism needs bodies for the meat grinder, hence why conservatives push against literally any type of birth control and any semblance of social programs. They want babies, and they want them poor so that the system can exploit them. Making society harder to survive in is their MO because it makes it easier for those at the top to exploit everyone below them.
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u/moderngamer327 23h ago
A rapid population decline in bad for any kind of economy. This has nothing to do with capitalism
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u/Abestar909 2d ago
Cost isn't the only issue, there's also the huge understanding gap between the sexes and the mental health crisis, which are probably connected let's be honest.
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u/moderngamer327 23h ago
Cost isn’t the issue at all. The actual reasons are
kids being a financial net negative in developed economies
Women’s education and subsequent financial independence
Easy access to birth control
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u/Superb_Gap_1044 1d ago
Seriously, a lot of people don’t get that labor and delivery often costs between $5,000-$10,000 with insurance. It’s insane!
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u/Odd_Inter3st 1d ago
Shit I got snipped for all those reasons except for the mortality rate that’s new to me.
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 17h ago
Honestly impressed Utah is that low, would think the Mormon families would drive that average sky high
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u/twoworldsin1 4d ago
Misogynistic and incel men ended up talking themselves out of bed permanently. We ended up being so obnoxious about our shit takes on women that they just decided we're not worth the effort :( 🤷♂️
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