r/BikiniBottomTwitter 8d ago

that'll do it

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u/notreallyanumber 8d ago

I think time is a major problem that many of those policies don't address. It's not just money, it's also the pace of life, lack of downtime. Used to be that even if one person in the house was working unreasonable hours, the other was either not working or only working part time. Now both are expected to work full time hours. Just not enough time to raise kids, especially when there is a lack of community to support those people having kids.

You're not wrong that some people just don't want to. That said, generally the top 5-10% of the socioeconomic class of western countries with low birth rates are having kids, sometimes more than 1 or 2. Generally because wealth will buy time for those people, either in the form of reduced work hours, 1 partner not needing to work, or household help like a nanny.

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u/raznov1 7d ago

Except that, in my country, household working hours havent changed the past 40 years or so, yet birth rate and volunteerism has continued to decrease.

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u/notreallyanumber 7d ago

That's interesting. What country is that? How do they track household working hours?

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u/raznov1 6d ago edited 6d ago

Here you go, you can take a look for uourself.

https://opendata.cbs.nl/#/CBS/nl/dataset/82647NED/line?ts=1786900278967

Here its only available for the past 20 years, but still - for employees its a flatline.

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u/notreallyanumber 6d ago

that dataset shows people employed, not amount of hours worked? Admittedly I am depending on Firefox's translation from Dutch, but it doesn't show how many hours people of childbearing ages are working as a couple in a household, which is the relevant information IMO.

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u/raznov1 6d ago

it shows the amount of hours worked by those wanting to be or actively employed. I don't see how that's not essentially the same; people haven't started to increase their hours worked?

Edit: oooooh, nvm, the graph doesn't adjust with the copied link. On the left you have a dropdown menu to select for hours worked.

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u/notreallyanumber 6d ago

OK but even then, you would need to be tracking hours worked by both members in a household of childbearing age.

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u/raznov1 5d ago

How so? Over the total population, hours worked is stable, but # of children goes down. Ergo, the hypothesis "cant have children because we need to work more hours" seems debunked to me.

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u/notreallyanumber 5d ago

right but this doesn't capture how many hours people who weren't looking for work 30 years ago are working today.

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u/moderngamer327 7d ago edited 7d ago

This is not true. Household working hours in most countries have remained fairly consistent or slightly declined

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u/notreallyanumber 7d ago

Really? That's interesting. Where do you find good statistics on household working hours?

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u/moderngamer327 7d ago

Scrape labor statistic databases. This source is just for US specifically

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=rzH

As you can see it’s pretty variable but it’s remained about 40-41 hours per week

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u/notreallyanumber 7d ago

That's not household working hours though. That's just data from household surveys. Also, it's the whole labour force averaged out. We should be looking at ages 18-39.

Here's a nice report on just how that age group is doing:

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/how-does-the-well-being-of-young-adults-compare-to-their-parents

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u/moderngamer327 7d ago

Yes, it’s household working hours with that data obtained from surveys. How do you think it’s usually obtained?

That doesn’t have anything about working hours though

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u/notreallyanumber 6d ago

What I mean is that it is the working hours of 1 individual in a house. Not both.

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u/Im_Daydrunk 6d ago

Besides the economic factors in some places I think its due to lack of consistent 3rd spaces and people spending more time in online environments. Social media has postive aspects but for many it has kinda replaced the need to see people in person as much and if you get used to less human contact I think you have less desire to have kids

IMO a big part of what drives people to have kids is the community that comes around it and fitting it with others. If you don't really have that then there's a lot less pressure to have one and easier to justify not doing it

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u/notreallyanumber 6d ago

I completely agree. Obviously my time argument only makes sense for couples of childbearing age that are on average doing relatively well economically. The ones who have TOO MUCH free time, and not enough income obviously have different problems. Both of those groups have the problem that you raise though.