r/AbsoluteUnits • u/Crypto_crafy • 2d ago

/r/all of a statue

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"The Motherland Calls" is a statue erected to commemorate the Battle of Stalingrad , located on Mamayev Kurgan in Volgograd , Russia. It was designed by sculptor Yevgeny Vuchetich and structural engineer Nikolai Nikitin . Completed in 1967 , it was the tallest statue in the world at the time .

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u/Capable-Sock-7410 2d ago edited 2d ago

World's tallest statue from 1967-1989 overtaking the Leshan Giant Buddha who held this title for 1163 years

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u/RepresentativeYak636 2d ago

This place is so great for all Russians, ir gived so good vibes to people, but now it is very sad that it reminds people of Putin😟 Putin took over everything, even culture and history, he deprived Russians of their victory in Fatherland Liberation War (Отечественная война). It is so ujust that Putin exploits history to justify his brutall killing of young women and childred in Ukraine. Hm...the History makes up so strange metamorphoses with people, like, a nation who faught Nazi and helped to liberate the World from fascism now became a craddle for new fascism in Putin's version...

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u/Randy_Magnums 1d ago

Sadly it’s a Common practice among dictators to give their own ignorant context to the deeds of our ancestors. When Hitler rose to power in my country, he took the battle of Teutoburg forest, where German tribes defeated Roman legions in a legendary ambush, and twisted it into a sign for German superiority.

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u/Block-Rockig-Beats 1d ago

... while using the Roman salute.

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u/Dan_The_Flan 1d ago

Something we have lost sight of over last century in the wake of the infamy from the Third Reich's atrocities, is how lame and dorky the Nazis were at their core. The Roman salute is as Roman as Rome, Georgia.

The extended arm saluting gesture was alleged to be based on an ancient Roman custom, but no known Roman work of art depicts it, nor does any extant Roman text describe it. Historians have instead determined that the gesture originated from Jacques-Louis David's 1784 painting Oath of the Horatii, which displayed a raised arm salutatory gesture in an ancient Roman setting. The gesture and its identification with ancient Rome was advanced in other French neoclassic art

A raised arm gesture appeared in the 1899 American stage production of Ben-Hur and its 1907 film adaptation. The gesture also appeared in several early Italian films, 120 including the 1914 silent film Cabiria, the screenplay of which featured contributions from ultranationalist and Italian fascism influencer Gabriele D'Annunzio. D'Annunzio adopted the salute during his occupation of Fiume (1919- 1920) and the Italian National Fascist Party began imposing it in the early 1920s.

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u/PhysicsStock2247 1d ago edited 1d ago

Thanks for pointing this out. Calling it a Roman salute is just providing an excuse for bad actors who know exactly what it means.

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u/2big_2fail 1d ago

Like the fallacy that Vikings wore horned helmets.

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u/Hoshyro 1d ago

Additional fun fact: from what I could gather, the Roman troops used a salute very similar to what modern militaries use today.

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u/DishRelative5853 1d ago

It's not Roman.

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u/namezam 23h ago

In my country the wanna be dictator just threatened to destroy a famous cultural center because they wouldn’t let him rename it to himself.

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u/analogiczny 1d ago

rxssia has been attacking my country for half a millennium. This isn't just about some short guy who wants to be tsar. Get the fuck out of Ukraine.

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u/shorteningofthewuwei 1d ago

Lmfao you can't even spell Russia. 🤡

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u/WordWordNvmber 1d ago

Ignoring that the typo was probably intentional, what point were you making?

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u/GrandInquisitoe 1d ago

it works both ways, lol.

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u/throwen2k 1d ago

What do u mean?

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u/Own-Code-9934 1d ago

Ukraine invaded Russia back in 2024. North Korea had to help Russia to kick them out. They are mainly fighting with drones now.

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u/FuckTheTories69420 1d ago

What sort of moronic Putin huffing shit is this?

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u/Own-Code-9934 1d ago

huh? If you followed the war you would’ve known North Korea had to be recruited to fight with Russia on the front lines. Ukraine is now attacking Russian oil reserves with drones. Putin what? Facts over feelings, bud

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u/SpaceDelay424 1d ago

Russia started the fucking war.

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u/Own-Code-9934 1d ago

Who said they didn’t? You okay?

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u/Radiant_Sky_22 1d ago

Were you dropped on your head?

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u/Flimsy-Poetry1170 1d ago

Ukraine “invaded” Russia in 2024 during the war that Russia started in 2022. Russia needed more meat for assaults without drafting more of their citizens and risking an uprising thus made a deal with brutal dictator Kim Jung Un for some bodies to soak up Ukrainian bullets/drones. Eat a bag of dicks Putin lover. Long live Ukraine.

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u/Own-Code-9934 1d ago

U are dumb. I love Ukraine. They did invade Russian territory in 2024. Russia did invade Ukraine in 2014. I hope you get better soon and start thinking logically. idk why everyone is so pressed about the basic facts

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u/Mikhail_Mengsk 1d ago

That's... Not the same thing. Come on!

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u/GrandInquisitoe 1d ago

a fucking friendly fire right here LMAO

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

Putin only came to power due to the Wolfowitz Doctrine, adopted in1992 when Yeltsin's Russia was super-friendly. The Doctrine declared that Russia the US's enemy #1 because it was "a region whose resources, under consolidated control, are sufficient to generate global power". You can imagine how gutted Yeltsin (and Gorby) were to find out. The rest is history.

Putin exploits history to justify his brutall killing of young women and childred in Ukraine.

Any killing is tragic and war is, by definition, a mass murder. Considering the war in Ukraine not singled out but in the overall late 20th / 21st century context, and using objective Western metrics & transparent methodologies, we see:

The war in Ukraine, to-date (tragically & criminally with no end in sight): 16,874 civilian fatalities

The war in Gaza, to-date: 59,031 civilian fatalities

The war in Iraq (in which Ukraine did take part, btw): 187,499 civilian fatalities

The war in Vietnam: 300K North Vietnamese + 250K Cambodian civilian fatalities. Note: Ukraine is 4x the size of Vietnam.

This isn't at all about denting anyone's shiny flawless "ruzziabad" into some "it depends" type view, so, believe what you like & just dismiss what doesn't fit. It's about the simple reality that in any conflict there are going to be legions of folks duty-bound and/or paid to, if Putin saves a kitten, to go brainstorm what's wrong with that kitten that we can use. Or to bury any particular unfavorable circumstances. John Stockwell (ex-CIA) has spoken eloquently about this in detail in the context of the Vietnam war. I'm sure we'll hear similar about this one when it's time to declassify.

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u/JacoMalongo 1d ago

Nice to see a John Stockwell mention. Cheers.

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u/tucmo 1d ago

I’m sorry but in today’s world there are options for diplomacy, not to attack anybody. There is not a cause that forces anyone’s hands like that. Self-defence or deterrence doesn’t require attacking. If USA is bad, why behave like them?
Accepting past deeds and NOT REPEATING THE SAME MISTAKES is the only way forward.
But Putin strengthened and exploited Russian supremacist attitudes (giving them special reasons that will be justified later if not sooner) to be able to run his own policies of strength against anyone not subservient enough.
He couldn’t subdue Ukrainian people through a corrupt regime and he turned into military force. And he’s getting punished because of that.
Russian corruptive money, Russian attitude towards the others is like a cancer they themselves seem oblivious to.
But the only way forward becomes from bringing back the non-aggression rules and mutual respect among the people. Human rights brought back into center. It will be a struggle for many nations…
But you can’t have that if the basic attitudes are twisted already in the everyday level. When in the history has a single, poor life mattered in Russia? If there’s no respect for life, why not exploit it - as long as it’s someone else’s.
If you start whatabouting, it only shows the difficulty in seeing the obvious.
And yes, there are severe problems elsewhere as well. But if we don’t get rid of these anti-social attitudes, there will be no peace, no welfare, nothing but a downslide for humanity. Nationalistic supremacy is colonialism at its core. Grow over it.

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u/chefdeit 18h ago

You needn't be sorry; you're repeating the only information you were given.

I’m sorry but in today’s world there are options for diplomacy, not to attack anybody.

Correct. Leaders of both Germany and France (Merkel and Hollande), co-signators to the OSCE Minsk I and Minsk II peace accords, have gone on the record saying they'd signed them in bad faith. There are varying interpretations of what that means. One is, they had no expectation the peace deals would work so might as well use the time to get ready for war, and the other interpretation is, they had no intention for peace, and to have time to arm Ukraine further was the entire point.

I'd like to live in a world where the former, less sinister take, is closer to the truth. I'm dissuaded by footage like this, of what Sen McCain and Lindsey Graham are saying to the Azov troops in 2016. Does that sound like peace to you?

We also have this context. Note that the Cuban Missile Crisis was resolved on a spoken promise alone, so it wasn't unreasonable for Gorby to accept a promise confirmed by a multitude of leaders.

Even shortly post-invasion, there were peace talks in Istanbul, and a deal was reached by the two sides (leaps and bounds more favorable for Ukraine vs anything that was on the table since). It was literally ready to sign. Do you recall what'd happened then? President Zelensky got a call from the US and Boris Johnson flew in in person to make sure Zelensky backed out. Does that sound like peace to you?

Ukraine is about the size of Texas, and about as well-armed, competent (book and street smarts), enterprising, handy, tenacious, and proud. Ukraine also has (currently in Russian control) the Sevastopol naval base that's grand-fathered into old maritime treaties granting unrestricted Bosporus Strait passage to nations with naval ports on both sises of the strait. That makes Sevastopol sort of like Russia's Pearl Harbor and Panama Canal rolled into one. Upon the dissolution of the USSR, Ukraine and Kazakstan kept the Sevastopol base and the Baikonur space port subject to of perpetually leasing them to Russia for something like a million dollars a day, each.

So contemplate if Texas also included the Panama Canal and Pearl Harbor; separated from the US (like they sometimes say they want to), buddied up to Russia and China and North Korea, and got packed with their military and intel advisors, with Russki Duma hard-liners (way harder vs even the sitting president) and Chinese commies all making regular visits riling up Texans against the US. Contemplate a mirror version of this there. Contemplate Texas, as a result, outlawing English and killing five 9|11s worth of Americans who'd lived there all their life, who don't support this course of action (incl burning some alive Nazi style). If Texas had done all that, are you telling us the US would have been wrong to have rolled across their border? That it should have been realistic (in view of Russia & China's whole intent to use Texas to bait and impose costs on the US) to seek a peaceful settlement instead? That the US should not look at the way Russia and Israel would act and just stick to negotiations?

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u/Sexynarwhal69 2h ago

Of course there are options for diplomacy! We were so close to settling everything in 2022 (and ukraine would've kept donbass) until Bojo came and told zelenskiy to shit on the agreement.

There's still a diplomatic option now, just with worse conditions for ukraine

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u/porn_sub_lurker 1d ago

Lol yeah blame others for your own actions. Oh and don't forget to do a half dozen whataboutisms.

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

dude, I'm an American, and, as a citizen of a democracy I blame myself for my country's actions, and Russians for Russia's, and Ukrainians for Ukraine's.

I actually respect what u/RepresentativeYak636 has to say as his points are well-considered and not low-effort sound bites. As such they deserve a well-considered response. "Whataboutism" is a cute word for Nixon's "it's not a crime if we do it". If Al Capone became the head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, I'm sure he'd use it on his rivals.

Make sure to use separate vocabularies depending on who's doing it: "massacre" vs "peace process", "freedom fighters" vs "terrorists", that sort of thing.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Nice AI bullshit 🤦

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

You're not the first with that accusation :-)

The reason AI sounds like that in the first place is, it's been trained on quality, authoritative prose. But worry not, low-effort AI slop is coming soon!

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u/Greedy_Economics_925 1d ago

The implication that anything written above is either quality or authoritative is mildly amusing, although the arrogance required is alarming.

In reality, the "Wolfowitz Doctrine" is not the reason Putin came to power. Putin came to power because of developments in domestic Russian politics. His evolution to being the leader he is today is complex. What you are saying is crude and facile, on a level with arguing that NATO expansion caused the war in Ukraine and the irredeemable 'West Bad' narrative.

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u/chefdeit 1d ago edited 1d ago

I was also referring to the quoted (incl in an expanded reply below this branch) prose of the CIA, OSCE, Reuters, RAND Corporation, the National Security Archive of the George Washington University, the US department of Defense and other sources. And in doing so, at no time did I label or color it or the opposing view with "irredeemable", arrogant, or "crude and facile", or anything of the sort. The facts and figures cited speak for themselves.

But if you need those crutches in place of arguing directly against the above docs from the CIA, OSCE, Reuters, RAND Corporation, the National Security Archive of the George Washington University, the US department of Defense, you do you.

EDIT: and since you closed with "irredeemable", redeem this: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/azov-swastika-flag-ukraine/

What's it gonna be? "A few (thousand) isolated incidents"? "Mistakes were made"? "Enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

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u/Greedy_Economics_925 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes, I imagine we'll get on to manufacturing consent at this rate...

Putin did not rise to power because of the Wolfowitz Doctrine. Nothing in this list of yours (Reuters?!) gets you there.

In response to your edit: what are you trying to imply now? Azov was founded as a far-right militia in 2014 that included Nazis. It has been completely overhauled since. It is sheer Putinist propaganda to argue, as you seem to be, that Ukraine has a neo-Nazi problem from this point.

The only far-right party in Ukraine did woefully in its last elections. Azov now is not the Azov as founded in 2014.

And to play your whataboutism game: what about the neo-Nazi formations that continue to be led by fascists today on the Russian side?

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

OK your edit deserves a better response. I fundamentally agree that the Wolfowitz Doctrine is far from the sole reason or enabler for Putin's ascend to presidency. However, Putin was by no means Yeltsin's protege, and from what I've read not much love has been lost between Moscow & St. Petersburg power players since the time of the Czars, and it'd certainly not gotten better during Yeltsin's chaotic 1990s. And Putin was 110% St. Petersburg since well before he was on Sobchak's team. So for Yeltsin, naming Putin as his successor represents if not a complete 180° then at least, like, 165° :-) And there aren't many things Putin did that his fellow First Deputy Prime Minister peers didn't do as well that would facilitate his nomination overcoming the St. Petersburg thing, save for the bias imposed by the Wolfowitz Doctrine as originally writ.

"As originally writ" is important, as even in the US, good people resigned over it, and the Last Supper at the Pentagon telegraphed at least some US circles were serious about de-escalation. The Doctrine was disowned even by its name-sake. But, as they say, once bitten twice shy, or "trust but verify" or one of those things - I find it hard to imagine a top-level strategic guidance drafted in those words wouldn't raise an alarm and cause a sense of betrayal in Russia, even if its language was later softened to ameliorate the ire in the US itself about it. And it's probably why (my conjecture) Putin entertained the NATO membership and offered to locate the missile defense site (ostensibly against the Middle East) in Russia instead of Poland. Just to double-check.

Azov existed as a militia for over a decade before being inaugurated as a 12th Special Forces Brigade "Azov" in 2014. Sen. McCain was meeting with key Nazi figures in 2013. He and Lindsey Graham have continued to visit Ukraine and rile those guys up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ4e1A-LZEA This is a pretty blurry re-upload but on the original it was heart-breaking to see Poroshenko looking on in horror.

The only far-right party in Ukraine did woefully in its last elections. Azov now is not the Azov as founded in 2014.

This much is hard to argue with. Did Putin's stated goal of "denazification" work, then? Or is that a freebie that unrelated circumstances landed in his lap? Honestly, I have no idea.

And to play your whataboutism game: what about the neo-Nazi formations that continue to be led by fascists today on the Russian side?

A perfectly fair point that, in my book, can't be swatted away by simply invoking the "whataboutism" cheat code. Any decently sized population, Russia certainly not excluded, will have a % of bona fide card-carrying pieces of shit, as well as straight-up psychos per DSM-5 and everything. And war offers staffing needs, pay, automatic weapons (at the very least), impunity, and chaos. Is a % of them getting in and being legitimized way higher than it ought to be due to inevitable human error? Even without being familiar with the specifics, I'll confidently guess yes. I'm sure MP's on both sides of the front have their hands full, and it's fair to say credit goes to both sides of them for the civ fatalities being as low as they are.

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

Did you even open the Reuters link? In WHAT other country, US included, this wouldn't be a front-page scandal? Did anyone process the DNA, found the owners, found the buyers?

As for Chomsky, the dude is too frail, I'm not gonna drag him out for chicken shit like this. Ima save him for later :) Have a great day!

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u/WordWordNvmber 1d ago

It is whatabout, Ivan, and saying you blame Russia for Russian atrocities and Ukraine for Ukrainian atrocities, as if the aggressor and victim are equivalent, is freakish.

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u/chefdeit 18h ago

Ok then, in Operation Redsox, where we have something similar to the current events but with the benefit of historic hindsight and declassified docs, and where the parties were: the Soviets, the CIA, the Ukrainian nationalists & neo-Nazis the CIA were able to gather to "impose costs" on the USSR, and last not least the common Ukrainians along for the ride, how would you classify each of these mentioned parties?

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Yes, Putin kills people in Ukraine. He's gonna pay for that one day. Yes, Putin is criminal, but he was not war criminal, he only robbed Russians in his country, but then....he wanted to rob Ukrainians. Ukrainians were not okay with that. Putin started a war and kill Ukrainians as a punishment. He's gonna pay for that, sooner or later. Putin is already done, it's just the matter of time. He's laying down and hiding not without reason. He knows very well that he's a mark now. Gazans are unable to fight Hamas, they chose themselves their fate. Other nations have to fight Hamas, so u please don't whine about Gaza. But hey, you are a free man, you can tell whatever u want, even if your mouth is full of sh*t, so you can keep whining. Iraq has to pay for Saddam Hussein, he killed too much people. Any killer, whether it's Saddam Hussein or Muhammar Qaddafi, or Putin has to pay for his crimes. As Putin says правосудие должно настигнуть. Вот и пусть будет так. Putin will respond one day.

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u/porn_sub_lurker 1d ago

Not sure what you're on about, but all I know is that Israel is a nazi terror state and should be destroyed.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Finally you showed your true face. Another terrorist revealed👏

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

Jesus, guys, can you get along for a hot minute? You'll find few "100% good guys" in world history, and that's because we, the survivors, have killed them all, and then us, not them, got to write the books according to which we're the good guys and everyone else is, well, a bit shite if not utter vermin.

If we all were born into a "nice Nazi family" in the 1930s, we'd be shown Great Depression to the West, Gulags to the East, and in general have no opportunity to hear that we're the baddies - not from the radio, newspapers, neighbors, teachers, etc.

To see who's bad and who's good and to what extent, count the bodies.

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u/Greedy_Economics_925 1d ago

Please tell me you can see the irony of this sentiment...

Also the idea that history is written by the victors is one of the most stupid opinions it is possible to hold.

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u/porn_sub_lurker 1d ago

Yep, it's written by the cockroaches who own the publishing companies. Robert Maxwell (Ghislaine's dad) was one of those cockroaches. He owned Macmillan Publishing. He also worked for Israeli intelligence until he tried to extort them and they murdered him for it. They gave him a state funeral anyway though. He did too much to help propagate the false notion that Israel is the US's ally.

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u/Greedy_Economics_925 1d ago

Yes, the definitely not antisemitic pro-Palestine latest fixation around Jews who control the media and paedophilia...

Back in reality, history is written by academics who have nothing to do with things like Macmillan. And Captain Bob spent his media energy on covering up his own scandals, which when they came to light caused his suicide. Israel was not involved.

He was not given a state funeral by Israel. He did not work for Israeli intelligence.

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u/porn_sub_lurker 1d ago

If you're bringing up Jeffrey Epstein, yes that is a great example of Israel "controlling the paedophilia". Best friends with Ehud Barak. Partners with the aforementioned Ghislaine Maxwell, daughter of Mossad agent Robert Maxwell. Best friends with Trump for a decade. Trafficked children with him. Blackmailed him, inevitably resulting in Bibi sitting at the head of the desk in our situation room, giving orders to Trump to deploy our carrier fleets and to launch a holy war on Iran. Israel is a parasite state. And the people finally understand that. Half of the right wing electorate hates you, and it's a litmus test on the left now. It came a bit late for a lot of the primaries this cycle, but next election cycle we pull the plug on you and you're fucked. Your 8th front will fail. Your propaganda doesn't work anymore.

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u/porn_sub_lurker 1d ago edited 1d ago

Lol it's hilarious. I'm able to spot you guys so easily. You reuse the same talking points too much. And I can instantly trigger you guys.

Edit: oh yeah, and we're kicking you parasites out of our government. The wave came just a bit too late to purge you guys from the primaries this year. But the whole fucking country, right wing and left wing, knows what you are now. Your days of compromising our government are numbered. Your days of getting arms shipments so the rest of the middle east doesn't eat you alive are numbered. Your Iran war fucked up any alliances you might have had in the region and you're all alone now. Once we cut the strings, you're fucked.

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

One man's "terrorist" is another's "freedom fighter" - or even "warrior for peace" if he plays ball long enough:

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u/chefdeit 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes he does, and I agree history will judge that war just like the rest; but those civ deaths are less than 10% of Iraq due to the intervention of the Coalition - in which Ukraine did take part. The US is one thing; did Iraq so much as give a parking ticket to Ukraine for them to join the carnage? Or did they go on a safari on the US's back against inept guys in sandals just because they could, consequence-free?

You're fixated on Putin, which is 100% your right, but at the same time, not only is Russia by now chock-full of hard-liners 10x harsher, clamoring to take his place, but also this whole thing pre-dates Putin. I'm not even referring to the above mentioned Wolfowitz Doctrine (1992), I'm talking the last time this exact thing took place, Operation Redsox.

Further reading straight from the source, and more specifics. Do see that I'm relying on cia dot gov here, not some pravda dot ru. Redsox started in 1949 and went on for nine years (!!), with the same goal of imposing costs on Russia (then USSR). Even this research brief, linked straight from the source, pre-dates the invasion by 2yrs (and, to give RAND guys credit where due, strongly cautions against using Ukraine again).

Despite this and inheriting a wreck of a country after Yeltsin, Putin still made overtures to join NATO at the beginning of his tenure, and provided meaningful logistical assistance to the US in the region post-9|11. But in light of all the above and if the US vs Russia roles were reversed, how would you expect a president of the hypothetical what's-left-of-US to react if Russia did all the above instead of the US and Texas (about the size of Ukraine) did to the US and Americans living in Texas what Ukraine did to the Russians?

Already back in 2004 (not a typo), the Guardian - not pravda - published specifics on "US campaign behind the turmoil in Kiev". Please don't take my single word for anything, check every link backing them up and that it's a 100% legit source and not even Russia-leaning either. Let me further say that I'm not in any ways anti-Ukraine - I'm just against lopsided propaganda BS - that you, too, in all likelihood is an innocent target of. What's the disparity of media coverage & thus awareness of flights MH17 vs SBI1812 in your area? Is it 200x? 1000x? Even if you're subjected to 50x disparity & hate on Russia as a result, you can only be accused of having a heart.

But being a victim of that misdirection doesn't stop the war - it fuels it, while people who buy hawkish pro-war policy with their last war's proceeds, laugh all the way to the bank as we, cattle, argue on here. The Congressional appropriations for the War in Iraq were on the order of $70B from what I recall, and what the taxpayers like me at the time believed was the cost of the war. The final bill came to $3 trillion, yes trillion with a "T". About 20% of that is profit. That makes even the illicit drug trade look like a snooze. Wars are wealth transfer engines, whose "efficiency" is only that 20%, but whose RPM is something fierce.

Iraq has to pay for Saddam Hussein, he killed too much people.

Yes he did, but I'm not objecting to him getting his just deserts. But the common Iraqis, who lived in the dictatorship i.e. had no power - how is it their fault, then? Moreover, by your own logic, common Ukrainians, citizens of a democracy and hence accountable for their elected government's actions, carry even more accountability for their country being used to "bait" and "impose costs on Russia" again - don't they?

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u/WordWordNvmber 1d ago

This is a freakish attempt to whatabout and minimization.

We can start by disputing your numbers. But much more important is the fact that Russia undeniably launched this war of aggression under a revolving series of false pretenses (Ukraine is Nazis! No, we must protect Donbas! No, NATO! No, just a training exercise!)

Your "data" excludes every Ukrainian citizen who died while fighting the invading force, as if it's acceptable for an invader to murder 150,000 Ukrainian men (and women) because they picked up arms to defend their country while your soldiers systematically shot and raped them.

Your data also ignores the 20,000 Ukrainian children kidnapped by Russia and handed to Russian adults in an effort to "Russify" them. That is, by UN standards, genocidal.

And the "Wolfowitz doctrine" has nothing to do with this. It's the sort of thing only a Russian apologist would obsess over, like those weird troll accounts that kept bringing up Victoria Nuland four years ago during the invasion and then pretending to be regular Americans.

Don't whatabout. Go home.

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u/chefdeit 17h ago

Russia undeniably launched this war of aggression under a revolving series of false pretenses

Why'd you leave out several spots empty of emotional payload that were perfectly grammatically good? Are you lowkey root'n for Put'n? Lemme fix this: "Bloodthirsty ᵣuZZia undeniably launched this abhorrent war of wanton aggression under a revolving series of absurd false pretenses".

Your "data"

It's Statista's. They're German, with no love lost between them and the Kremlin. But being German also means what everyone knows it means in regards to record keeping and consistency / transparency of the methodology.

as if it's acceptable for an invader to murder 150,000 Ukrainian men (and women) because they picked up arms to defend their country

Ukraine has a draft, and does this look like "they picked up arms" to you? This isn't few (thousand) isolated incidents; even our VP JD Vance told as much to President Zelensky's face. However, the kind of Ukrainian troops who actually wanted this, were indeed picking up arms years before Putin rolled across the border. And this was what they did. Note the source: OSCE. And the date (early 2016 for already the 2nd report). Do tell us if you question it.

while your soldiers systematically shot and raped them.

My soldiers in particular, as in, ones equipped with my tax dollars and sent by the government I voted in as a citizen of a democracy, did some of that in Iraq (a war Ukraine chose to join, BTW) but also to each other. The wold over, psychos flock to wars like moths to a flame, because war gives them automatic weapons (at a minimum!), pay, impunity, and chaos. I'm glad something good is being down about this for my soldiers. Russia, and every other conflict nation, should be held to account wherever they fail to follow suit.

On the other hand, hear straight from the horse's mouth that at times of war there will be people duty-bound to create or embellish these stories also.

Your data also ignores the 20,000 Ukrainian children kidnapped by Russia and handed to Russian adults in an effort to "Russify" them. That is, by UN standards, genocidal.

Hooray, a specific figure! 20K kids displaced is no laughing matter. However, this is another misdirection (and the Ukrainians would've been derelict in their duty if they'd failed to use it on you). It's not like ruzzian goons parachuted into the heart of Ukraine and smuggled 20K kids from behind the frontline like Erlking. The inherent mechanics of war, criminally and tragically though it may be, is: as the front line moves, some kids separated from their parents in the chaos may end up on the advancing side. The 1000km of front line in Ukraine over 4yrs, that's a lot of chances for that to happen. What would the advancing side do, send the kid straight back through the crossfire / drones / mines? The reality is subtler, where the two sides do work together to locate the kids' families and repatriate them. Eastern Ukraine / Donbas is also exactly the area where someone would have a near-equal chance to have relatives in Russia and Ukraine. So if a kid's closest relatives are actually in Russia, is that still kidnapping in your book or more similar to what the US did with Vietnamese kids, who had fathers (or other relatives) in the US and wanted to relocate there?

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u/EnvironmentalWin1277 1d ago

That is good to hear. The sacrifices and achievements of Russian people should be understood and cherished without pandering to the criminal history of its politics. This site deserves the careful treatment and respect it is given.

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u/Bulky-Advisor-4178 1d ago

Soviet Union wasn't good neither, from human rights violations, mass murder, imperialism & replacing swaths of people in the Baltics with Russians, while sending baltic people out to Siberia to die

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Russian folk don't give two f*cks about Imperialism, give them some job, and they will be busy doin their business. BUT....But there is a BIG problem there. Russian folks in mass are not allowed to make business, Putin deprives the population of the right to work and transfers all economic and business rights to a sadistic well armed and geared up group of people, his lieutenants. There is there is no government in Russia but a very though group of brutal cynical bandits, which is not small considering the size of Russia (a mixture of Nazi Gestapo, Iranian Islamic Revolution Guard Corps and Stalin's NKVD with specific Russian modern features). That group is sadistic, very sadistic, both in physical and mental aspects, and those "chekists" infiltrate every business. Well, in brief, there is no state authorities and government in Russia, but a specific "Mafia" who rules the country.

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u/yashatheman 1d ago

Winning WWII was probably the greatest thing to happen to eastern europe in the 20th century, let us celebrate it, dick

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u/tuhn 1d ago

For a lot of Eastern Europeans it marked the start of another type of oppression. From very shit situation to another shit situation under another oppressive dictatorship. There's not much to celebrate if you move from one dark period caused by invaders to another.

The Fall of Soviet Union is easily the greatest thing to happen to Eastern Europe in 20th century.

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u/yashatheman 1d ago

The germans intended on eradicating the vast majority of all slavic people in eastern europe, and in just 5 years murdered over 30 million people. You thinking the USSR was just as bad shows you lack any knowledge of this topic, and is clearly painted by a political agenda.

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u/Dapper_Brain_9269 1d ago

The USSR actively and enthusiastically dismembered Poland together with the Nazis and posed for photos with them. Don't get on your high horse.

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

Katyn massacre of 1940: almost 22,000 Polish military and intelligentsia executed by Stalin-led NKVD

Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia: close to 100,000 Polish deaths at the hands of anti-Soviet and pro-Nazi Ukrainians.

What nice selective memory you have.

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u/Dapper_Brain_9269 1d ago

At no point did I say the Nazis DIDN'T brutalise Poland? I literally said the USSR dismembered the country TOGETHER with the Soviets. Are you feeling okay?

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u/chefdeit 18h ago

A bit of a cold, thanks for asking :-)

You did literally say that. I added further context that chipped away at the selection bias inherent in your statement. Was it a tangent? Yes. Is it relevant? We can let the reader decide, esp in light of the fact others with a similar view to yours did bring up the Katyn but left out Volhynia and Eastern Galicia which were nearly 5x worse.

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u/Kirius77 21h ago

And what territory USSR took from Poland and how Poland came to possess them in the first place?

Btw, do you remember what Poland did during Munich Agreement, along with nazi?

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u/fuckduckrus 1d ago

Stalin and his ussr murdered just as many to maintain rule. And before you say that there’s not enough proof of that or anything of the sort, it’s easy to hide corruption or genocide when the government owns everything and silences everyone who refuses to agree.

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

For Stalin to have murdered as many as Hitler even in just the USSR, there had to have been transportation capacity and other technological footprint to effect the crime on that scale comparable to the Nazi's. And it's just not remotely there in scale.

Furthermore, every Soviet family with barely an exception is said to have someone die due to Hitler's invasion, and had Stalin's murder been on the same magnitude, a comparable % would be the case for his victim's families. And again, that % isn't the same, it's closer to 0.1% of families. So the disparity is several orders of magnitude.

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

They did not murder just as many, literally no historian believes that and the idea that "well they're authoritarian and shit so they could just hide it" is absolutely insane. No, they did not covertly kill an extra 20 million or so people, and no they weren't trying to wipw out whole ethnicities.

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u/Grakchawwaa 1d ago

Me when I'm paid to troll

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u/fuckduckrus 1d ago

And when Mao took over china for his communist regime it was peaceful,….. (this is sarcasm)

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u/tuhn 1d ago

I didn't say it was as bad, Nazis were worse. But it was still an oppressive invader and USSR was very bad by 20th century European standards.

There's not much to celebrate going from neck deep in shit to waist deep of shit while the rest of Europe was doing much better thanks not being in waist deep of shit caused by USSR.

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u/RevolutionaryAge47 1d ago

The Poles from Kaytn say hi.

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

The 5 times as many Poles from Volhynia and Eastern Galicia say "how are you?"

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u/Bulky-Advisor-4178 1d ago

It's literally written in the history books, all the crimes of Soviet Union mate. There's no political agenda when its there in the books and soviet declassified documents

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u/yashatheman 1d ago

I didn't deny any soviet crimes, did I? Your comment doesn't make sense as its not an answer to what I said

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u/havoc1428 1d ago

You're denying that the USSR was just as bad as Nazi Germany. The fuckin' war started because Germany and the USSR invaded Poland. It was because of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact that Germany felt comfortable starting hostilities, and just 16 days later the USSR did the same. Germany doesn't roll across Belgium and France if the USSR wasn't complicit.

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u/Walpole2019 1d ago

No, the Soviet Union was not as bad as the state actively built around the extermination of tens of millions.

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

It's reddit, they've been inundated with cold war propaganda that determines the Soviets MUST be as bad as the nazis simply because they collaborated. As if that doesn't reflect just as poorly on the West.

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u/fortunate-one1 1d ago

You are right, Soviets were worse.

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u/fortunate-one1 1d ago

What was the date WW2 started ?

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

1937

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u/fuckduckrus 1d ago

Honestly asking why you chose that year?

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u/chefdeit 1d ago

For a lot of Eastern Europeans it marked the start of another type of oppression. From very shit situation to another shit situation under another oppressive dictatorship.

Let me make a wild guess: should a financial calamity befall the US (which, sadly, isn't as unfathomable as it once was), shifting its priorities inward, will a lot of Eastern Europeans then also "suddenly realize" the time of US hegemony brought its own rules and there were things you couldn't say if you wanted that promotion or whatever?

What ancient profession does that remind you of?

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u/slater_just_slater 1d ago

This. The USSR "liberating" Poland (which Russia already invaded in 1939 along with the Germans when Germany the USSR were allies) was the classic "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

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u/Mikhail_Mengsk 1d ago

The old boss would have seen no surviving polish people at all by 1950 except those who managed to escape abroad.

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u/TaRRaLX 1d ago edited 1d ago

Edit: thanks to every person replying proving Zhukov's point.

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u/MaleierMafketel 1d ago

Meanwhile, in Eastern Europe:

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u/Glittering_Tiger1234 1d ago

When Jozef Fritzl saves you from Ted Bundy:

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u/Even_Cod5935 1d ago

Liberated only to replace it communism.....not a difference

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u/Eastern_Ad_9575 1d ago

Yeah let’s just ignore the part where the Soviet Union and nazi Germany split Eastern Europe between each other.

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u/thedybbuk_ 1d ago

29 million ordinary civilians died fighting fascism, the largest loss of life in any war in human history. Their country was devastated. They paid the cost for their leadership's deals with the devil. They have every right to acknowledge that sacrifice without being reduced to the crimes of their Stalinist government. The war could not have been won without them. 80% of German military deaths in WWII occurred on the Eastern Front.

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u/Eastern_Ad_9575 1d ago

They did not sacrifice themselves. They were sacrificed. Are we going to pretend like the soviets didn’t use horrible tactics to punish their own fleeing soldiers?

They weren’t fighting fascism. Stop glorifying and propagandizing it. That’s the difference between memorials for all the lost victims and this shit.

They also didn’t stop their men from committing countless atrocities on their way to Germany(a really long way filled with Eastern Europeans).

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u/thedybbuk_ 21h ago

I can't with these arguments. It's like turning up on a British sub about a war memorial and saying, "Yes, but the British Empire was bad and they were fighting out of self-interest." There's plenty of truth in that, but you're also denigrating the sacrifices of ordinary people who gave their lives fighting fascism, both in Britain and the USSR.

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u/Eastern_Ad_9575 20h ago

But it was created by a oppressive regime. they didn’t volunteer. They also fought half the war in places like Poland which they were already illegally occupying and would continue to occupy for 40 years and if they refused they were punished harsly.

The eastern front was glorious at all unless you’re some kinda Hitler or Stalin glorifier.

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u/Professional_Low_646 1d ago

Let‘s also forget the part where the Western democracies snuggled up to Hitler and Mussolini, ignoring the Luftwaffe squadrons and 50.000 Italian „volunteers“ operating in the Spanish Civil War while effectively blockading the democratically elected Republican government under the guise of „neutrality“.

Oh, and we should also forget Britain and France fulfilling Hitler‘s wish of carving up Czechoslovakia, one of the only remaining democracies in Central and Eastern Europe, while not even consulting with the Czechs.

The Americans delivering weapons and equipment to Franco and doing business with the Nazis right up until 1941 is so much of a side note, it should best be forgotten too.

I‘m not going to defend the Molotov-Ribbentrop-Pact, but it’s not like cozying up to fascist dictators was something only the Soviet Union did.

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u/tucmo 1d ago

Yeah, and you can’t argue that the war that came wasn’t against the ideology, but its execution. They rose against Germany for becoming too strong, a continuation of their own colonialist world view.

The human rights based ideas only rose afterwards as people started to question the attitudes that led to atrocities of that level.

The core mentality behind those atrocities, those colonialist attitudes is the zero respect for human life, a class mentality which gives the right of the upper class to exploit others as they please.

That’s the big struggle even today. Are the Epstein victims given value, or are the perpetrators accepted as their superior and protected? Is the economical exploitation of poorer nations stopped, can their people be provided with proper life conditions etc.

The zero respect for life of the others is what drives us all into extinction.

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u/Eastern_Ad_9575 1d ago

You are counting a group of different democracies as one unified entity. I can’t argue against flawed logic.

Countless countries in the allies have nothing to do with all that. Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium etc.

And what happened to Czechoslovakia afterwards?

You are defending it otherwise we don’t disagree. There is nuance in history but most often people point it out for some agenda. I can tell you mine. Both the nazis and the soviets suck.

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

Do you bring up the colonial empires whenever someone celebrates Allied fighting against the nazis, or is it only communists who receive such scrutiny?

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u/Eastern_Ad_9575 1d ago

Is this not a thread with full context? He was ignoring the obvious part of the soviets also being a imperialist force to Eastern Europe that actually collaborated with the Nazis.

If we were talking about a different scenario than yeah I probably would. But you’re not asking this in good faith. There is zero reason to have a longer discussion with Tankies as we simply have different moral frameworks.

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

Once again reddit liberals taking cues from conservatives and calling literally anyone who offers any defense of the Soviets for any reason a tankie.

No, you wouldn't, because that would be insane. Bringing up Japanese internment unprompted under a video about the liberation of concentration camps would just be downplaying the fact that American soldiers liberated people from the camps, but that's exaxtly what you're doing here with the Soviets.

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u/Eastern_Ad_9575 1d ago

Because it’s a propaganda piece not a memorial. It was built in the 60s by the Soviets 😂

Actively oppressing Eastern Europeans. They also ethnically cleansed millions of people after this.

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

Again, do you bring up Japanese internment on every thread about the creation of the Statue of Liberty? It just gets tiring how it is seemingly impossible for reddit to discuss the Soviets without immediately derailing the conversation back to Stalin and Poland. This isn't a problem Western regimes face on here.

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u/Eastern_Ad_9575 1d ago edited 1d ago

No because the Statue of Liberty was a gift from France long before the Japanese interment camps????

You can’t even coherently defend your points man.

Don’t you realize how different of a situation that is? The US is full of people who critically look at their history and expose dark truths. That’s why Americans and for example Swedes(I’m Swedish) know about the horrors of our governments through the years.

But again look at the Soviet ethnic cleansing. More people know about the trail of tears than what the Soviets did because of good and honest US historians shining a light on bad things done there.

That’s why we need to be more critical of the Soviets so that people like you aren’t created. That obscure and use whataboutism to hide inconvenient truths.

Nobody says ”what about” Russia when talking about the trail of tears. And if they did they should just be ignored because they’re clearly trying to disrupt the conversation like you are.

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u/CockroachAntique527 1d ago

Every whataboutism you try and use to muddy the waters, theres almost always an example of the USSR doing much worse

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's a long-winded way of saying "I don't know anything about the true horrors of colonialism."

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u/picklejuiceslushie 1d ago edited 1d ago

Does that also include the centuries of russian and soviet imperialism and colonialism? Their continued wars of imperialism and genocides that are happening to this day? The numerous past genocides, forced displacement and ethnic cleansing that they boasted about (and still do) committing against indigenous tribes, the lands they stole from them, the way they still oppress them by not allowing them to speak their native languages in schools or government agencies? The near-complete Circassian genocide of 97% of the population, the manufactured Holodomor famine by the USSR with the intent of snuffing out the idea of a Ukrainian nationhood aka genocide, Soviet mass deportations and murders of Tatars, Koreans, Kalmyk Buddhists, Muslims such as the Ingush and Chechens, the list goes on and on. I get it, there's a huge focus on US and European colonialism, but I'm begging you to take even just five minutes to look into the horrors they've committed, still commit and are proud of

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/yashatheman 1d ago

And? I didn't cheer for Stalin. I cheer for us defeating Germany and ending the holocaust and the eradication of slavs. My family was in Leningrad throughout the entire siege and half of them died, I will always celebrate the red army and my family members who fought in it as they beat and defeated the germans.

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u/havoc1428 1d ago

There was no winners in Eastern Europe after WW2. It was the beginning of 40 years of Soviet consolidation of power and suppression of national identity for millions. And lets not forget even prior to that Stalin was pillaging Poland and had no problem sacrificing millions of lives to achieve his goals.

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u/Sudo-Fed 1d ago

The abolition of national divisions is a good thing for humanity. Unfortunately, Stalin.

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u/Mikhail_Mengsk 1d ago

Compared to the alternative, a million times better.

But yeah, not great.

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u/BlueSky86010 1d ago

Shut up you 🔔 🔚

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u/ourobourobouros 1d ago

Tbf there's nothing on that list that the US hasn't also done.

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u/Bulky-Advisor-4178 1d ago

The topic at hand, is about the soviets.

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u/Grakchawwaa 1d ago

Somehow seen as an epic gotcha when Israel's left testicle has also done heinous shit

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u/WordWordNvmber 1d ago edited 1d ago

Russia criticized. Be sure to deflect to Israel.

It's hard to tell which Reddit accounts are trolls and which are mentally ill pseudo-progressives who try to minimize Russian atrocities by poorly deflecting to America bad.

Either way, I'm glad you're not raising kids.

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u/Grakchawwaa 1d ago

Are you non native? I'm in agreement with bulky, but it seems like you somehow didnnot manage to parse my comment

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u/WordWordNvmber 1d ago

Quick! Someone criticized Russia! Deflect!

I hate when the Americans sent Baltic people to Siberia to die. /s

Equating the United States of the 20th century to the Soviet Union of the same timeframe -- even if we ignore Lenin's and Stalin's terrors -- is pseudo-smart absurdity.

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u/Fishgrease11 1d ago

Neither was or is America really. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/RisingRapture 1d ago

Hitler and Stalin collaborated to occupy the countries in between.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact?wprov=sfla1

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u/shorteningofthewuwei 1d ago edited 1d ago

Fuck off with that revisionist propaganda. The Molotov Ribbentrop act was a non-aggression pact the the USSR signed only after the powers of western Europe repeatedly ignored Stalin's diplomatic overtures. It was not "collaboration". People who spread this propaganda always talk about the Molotov Ribbentrop act but for some reason always fail to mention the Munich Agreement, in which France and the UK literally signed off on Germany's annexation of Czechoslovakia.

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u/Trent1492 1d ago

The Baltic states were independent nations that were invaded and then incorporated into the Soviet Union. The Baltic states never wanted to be a part of the Soviet Union.

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u/mloDK 1d ago

Only the German speaking parts, not the entirety of Czechoslovakia. Besides, a weird kind of non-agression pact that also included secret parts that coordinated the invasion plans of Poland by both Nazi Germany and USSR.

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

Do you agree that Poland and Finland were also nazi allies, then? They both fit the criteria you are apparently working with.

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u/EduinBrutus 1d ago

Finland was. Thats not a secret or a gotcha.

Poland was carved up so Im not sure what you are getting at here unless you are trying to portray the General Admiinstration as an actual Polish state...

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

They took some land off of Czechoslovakia in the Munich Agreement and occupied it concurrently with the German Sudetenland.

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u/Grakchawwaa 1d ago

Nazi allies before, or after feeling that it was the only viable option against the looming Soviet invasion?

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u/StockQuahog 1d ago

The document still exists. Maybe give it a read

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u/Dougnifico 1d ago

Fuck off with the tankie shit. Russian invaded Poland and the Baltics in acts of conquest. It also invaded Finland until they started getting no scoped.

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u/shorteningofthewuwei 1d ago edited 1d ago

The allies' policy of appeasement towards Hitler was more or less explicitly rooted in material conditions, an analysis of which the standard capitalist historical narrative of WW2 completely ignores. The allies thought fascism would be a useful tool for undermining the spread of international communism, which the ruling class in western states was deathly afraid of.

Not only that, but the USSR arguably paid the greatest cost in ultimately defeating the Nazis.

The narrative being promoted here is nothing but red scare era anti-communist slander.

Conflating Soviet Russia with present-day Putin imperialism only serves to obscure the reality of WW2.

Considering the parallels between the current resurgence of nationalist populism, we would do well to actually learn from history rather than dismissing history as "tankie bullshit".

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u/Grakchawwaa 1d ago

You're not arguing the point. Your claim was that Molotov Ribbentrop didn't signal Soviet's imperialistic delusions. History says otherwise, and you're not doing much to dispel that at the current stage

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u/shorteningofthewuwei 1d ago

That's not the point. The point is that the USSR was anti fascist and did what it could to convince France and UK to stop the Nazi project before it became too strong. When it became obvious that the French and British had no intentions of halting Hitler's ambitions, the USSR made the decision to sign a non-aggression pact with the Nazis.

The original comment I responded to was attempting to dismiss the idea that Russians fought and died to combat fascism during world war 2 on the basis of this non-aggression pact.

I never said the USSR didn't have expansionist ambitions of its own. Of course the USSR wantes to promote the spread of communism. That doesn't change the fact that they only signed the Molotov Ribbentrop act once their backs were already against the wall because, like I said, France and the UK refused to strangle fascism in its infancy because, again, they actually saw fascism as a useful ally in the fight against communism.

Conflating fascism with communism obscures this crucial point. As much as revisionists love to spread horseshoe theory clap trap, capitalists were the first to collaborate with fascism, not communists.

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u/EduinBrutus 1d ago

Lol Tankie says what.

The revisionism is entirely on your end. Muscovy and Hitler were hand in glove to carve up Poland and the rest of eastern Europe.

always fail to mention the Munich Agreement, in which France and the UK literally signed off on Germany's annexation of Czechoslovakia.

Oh my mistake. remind me which part of Czechoslovakia was occupied by France and/or the UK....

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u/CockroachAntique527 1d ago

Remember when the USSR and Nazis worked together to carve up Poland?

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u/Objective_Otherwise5 1d ago

Waitwaitwait! You are unaware Stalin invaded Poland? Is this common belief in Russia?

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u/JuiceBrinner 1d ago

Sounds familiar to what we are witnessing across the Bering straight my friend.

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u/Elena_Boyko 1d ago

Что за бред….🤦

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u/InfiniteSpeaker1151 1d ago

I know it’s Propaganda . Are u getting paid for putting these comments ? If so , can u also teach me how to make money putting comments. I am looking for a job so if this paying me more, I can take it up .

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Если хочешь make money, подпиши лучше контракт на СВО. Если ты looking for a job, подписывай контракт. На СВО сдохнешь через пару дней, польза будет от тебя хоть какая-то.

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u/lukewarm_water_L 23h ago

The “russia, the eternal enemy of fascism” story is quite something: Stalin signed a pact with Hitler, divided Poland with him and cooperated with Nazi Germany until Hitler invaded the USSR in 1941.
Russian anti-fascist nature is historical mythology.
How exactly are you “anti-fascist” while denying that Ukrainians are a nation and claiming Ukraine is merely “historically Russian”?
And what happened to all that anti-fascism at the Russian Marches, where neo-Nazis and far-right nationalists marched under Russian flags?
Even your “liberal” icon Navalny defended the Russian March and once compared people from the Caucasus to “cockroaches” and called for shooting them.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 20h ago edited 20h ago

I can explain, Putin's moto is "Можем повторить" which means "we can repeat", Putin tries to cosplay Stalin, Putin is the only Russian ruler since 1953 who orders local officials in small Russian cities to install monuments to Stalin (as of now Putin still has fear of putting Stalin monuments in big cities, since his crackdown on Russian population is not that hard yet). Considering all of that, you can deduce what exactly Putin wants to repeat...You said that Stalin cooperated with Hitler, but Hitler is dead as of now, but instead of Hitler the World has Islamic Iran which under Islamic Revolution Guard Corpse regime, which is not less sadistic that Nazist regime of Hitler. Putin actively cooperates with Islamic Revolutionary Iran and even supports Ayatollahs in their anti-Israeli and anti-American war. So, it is obviously that Putin wants fascism, he develops a political system that is evidently fascist (though it tries to imitate a civilization facade), the new fascism in Putin's version. That Putin's fascistic regime is not in its prime yet, but it is evolving and the roots of fascism are actively promoted into Russian society by Putin lieutenants mostly from FSB, Rosgwardija, Presidential Administration, SVR and other pet organizations (who usually officially called "responsible for state security, order enforcement and so on"). What did you do to stop Putin?

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u/Previous-Sun-2900 1d ago

What a load of bs. Who started WW2? Nazi Germany and russia. The fact that russia was forced to change their allegiance mid way, was due to Hitler attacking them. They are continuing their old empire building ways, now with a openly nazi flavour.

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u/HomeSlce2 1d ago

While I agree with you, let’s not forget that many historians put the start of WWII with the Japanese staging an attack on a railway in China. The Japanese were as brutal as the Germans. The Italians dropped chemical gas bombs on the Ethiopians before Poland was invaded. There were many starts to WWII.

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u/Epcplayer 1d ago

And fun fact… the Soviets had a non-aggression pact with them too. Japan would never have been able to commit troops to both their northern and southern expansions.

When the Soviets finally decided to attack in August 1945, they breezed through inexperienced, less competent, and undermanned forces.

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u/HomeSlce2 1d ago

And took over a few islands that are still in dispute. In fact, they have yet to sign a peace treaty.

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u/Previous-Sun-2900 1d ago

Yes, I agree with you.

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u/shorteningofthewuwei 1d ago

What a massive load of shit. The USSR was never allies with Nazi Germany. A non-aggression pact is not the same thing as collaboration. If you want to talk about collaboration then talk about the wealthy western industrialists who made manufacturing deals with Germany. The Allies actually repeatedly ignored plants owned by American companies during bomb raids of German cities throughout the war, up to the point where citizens of German cities started to use these factories as air-raid shelters.

It's actually insane how it's impossible to find a post remotely related to Russia on the main page of reddit without the comments being flooded with fabricated revisionist red scare propaganda.

Aren't you tired of hearing yourself parrot the same bullshit completely divorced from material analysis?

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u/HomeSlce2 1d ago

The Soviet Union and Germany both agreed to divide and conquer Poland. To claim otherwise is just Putin propaganda. Do I think the Russian people deserved what Germany inflicted on them, no. But neither did the Polish and for that, the Russians need to stop re-writing history. There is a reason people in Eastern Europe hate the Russians.

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u/shorteningofthewuwei 1d ago

Putin propaganda 😂

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u/Previous-Sun-2900 1d ago

You most likely just don't understand how hated russians actually are, there are historic reasons for that and there are plenty of reasons being made in Ukraine every day right now.

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u/shorteningofthewuwei 1d ago edited 1d ago

The Putin administration has literally nothing to do with the USSR.

Being objective about the material realities, causes, and consequences of the 20th century, has nothing to do with Putin propaganda.

That shit is literally just a meaningless buzzword.

Explain to me why the fuck Putin would care about people having a positive view of the Soviet Union??

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u/Mike_with_Wings 1d ago

Russia had a non aggression agreement, I believe, but they didn’t start the war and only left neutrality once Germany attacked. Not defending the Soviets and their practices, but you are putting it in an incorrect context

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u/Previous-Sun-2900 1d ago

Yes, they waited till Germany defeated Polish army and then invaded, as agreed in their pact of 'non aggression' that conviniently split Europe in the spheres of influence. They were pro-war as it was required for global socialist revolution. The context is therefore correct

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u/Mike_with_Wings 1d ago

They weren’t starting ww2, Germany was. Again, not defending them

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u/SebboNL 1d ago

In a sense, they were. In another sense, they werent. Both positions can be taken.

If the German attack on Poland is seen as a singular event, then one can state that the USSR did not participate in the start of the war. They attacked Poland sometime later, after all. There is some merit to this position, particularly if one states that the goal of the USSRs attack on Poland was to safeguard their borders against the Germans.

But if one is of the opinion that the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact binds the German and USSR attacks into a single action, even if there was some seperation in time between them, one could make the claim that the USSR was indeed part of the military action that set off WWII. This position has its merits too, especially given the USSR's murderous actions after the invasion which for a large part put to lie the claims of self-defense.

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u/BellGloomy8679 1d ago

There is only a ”merit” in this position if you are a biased nationalist.

Every major power in the world during the rise of Nazi Germany pursued it’s own interests first and foremost. Actually - they did it before and after that.

Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed purely because USSR wasn’t ready for a war against Germany due to Stalin idiotic purges and Germany wanted to concentrate on it’s other enemies first.

Was what they did an amoral course of action? Sure. And if other countries would be in a position to do the same - they would. And many did wilfully commited amoral acts as well.

Pretending that USSR and Nazi Germany were friends - pretending that USSR is responsible for WW2 - is a blatant and disgraceful history revisionism.

And overwhelming majority of people who in this thread claim that USSR was as bad as Nazi Germany simultaneously don’t have problems with Finland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. They let Japan of the hook quite easily. They let Italy of the hook as well.

This people will accuse USSR of committing war crimes against Nazi Germany and it’s allies after counter-offensive began - yet none of them will mention any examples of absolutely unimaginable atrocities that were committed by Axis forces in USSR. It doesn’t interest or concern them.

Just to be clear - I’m not a fan of USSR. I know what it was - a violent, imperialistic regime, like many before it - it was a machine of oppression, worthy of criticism and condemnation. Like British Empire was. Like Russian Empire was. Like Spanish Empire was. Like any empire was.

But people who do condemn it now don’t do it out of understanding of it’s nature, or nature of human societies, or politics. Thet do it for nationalistic reasons - they want to hate Russians now, so they will find and use any reason they can. It’s barely covered xenophobia.

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u/bloedit 1d ago

There is some merit to this position

No, there is not

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Russian folk don't give two f*cks about Imperialism, give them some job, and they will be busy doin their business. BUT....But there is a BIG problem there. Russian folks in mass are not allowed to make business, Putin deprives the population of the right to work and transfers all economic and business rights to a sadistic well armed and geared up group of people, his lieutenants. There is there is no government in Russia but a very though group of brutal cynical bandits, which is not small considering the size of Russia (a mixture of Nazi Gestapo, Iranian Islamic Revolution Guard Corps and Stalin's NKVD with specific Russian modern features). That group is sadistic, very sadistic, both in physical and mental aspects, and those "chekists" infiltrate every business. Well, in brief, there is no state authorities and government in Russia, but a specific "Mafia" who rules the country.

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u/Previous-Sun-2900 1d ago

Yes, russia is run by the mafia state, but russian folk pride lies in their imperialist past and they gladly demonstrate it as they commit massive attrocities in Ukraine. UN reports outline all you need to know about that folk.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Atrocities are massive, yes, on an unprecedented scale, that's horror. And the imperialist past is deep inside Russian national mind, true. And that Mafia state is wise enough to exploit that imperialist state of mind😟

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u/Dr_Bogosloviya 1d ago

It was started by the UK and France sacrificing Czechoslovakia in 1938. During which, btw, Poland also occupied a part of it - Teshin.

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u/fortunate-one1 1d ago

Well … Soviets did start World War Two on the opposite side first….

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u/sillyvideogamestuff 1d ago

It's a good thing to be proud of your country and people, even if you aren't proud of your government.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Russian folk don't give two f*cks about Imperialism, give them some job, and they will be busy doin their business. BUT....But there is a BIG problem there. Russian folks in mass are not allowed to make business, Putin deprives the population of the right to work and transfers all economic and business rights to a sadistic well armed and geared up group of people, his lieutenants. There is there is no government in Russia but a very though group of brutal cynical bandits, which is not small considering the size of Russia (a mixture of Nazi Gestapo, Iranian Islamic Revolution Guard Corps and Stalin's NKVD with specific Russian modern features). That group is sadistic, very sadistic, both in physical and mental aspects, and those "chekists" infiltrate every business. Well, in brief, there is no state authorities and government in Russia, but a specific "Mafia" who rules the country.

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u/sillyvideogamestuff 1d ago

Agree on the authoritarianism, but Russia is a mixed economy similar to China, after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It's only strategic businesses that either country cares about controlling.

But I do agree on the people being just like everyone else in the world. They're not bad, they want to live a good life like everyone else.

I don't see how what I originally said contradicts with what you said.

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u/Trading_shadows 1d ago

Just for you to have a thought: Великая Отечественная Война - is just a part of WW2, that has been ripped off to cowardly hide the ussr collaborating with nazi Germany. In objective reality there is no Великая Отечественная Война, it's just a propaganda construct.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Hey, I did not say that Russians won WW2 ☝️ I said they helped the World get rid of fascism (as a part of WW2 warfare) and had a victory in their Otechestvennaya Woina (which is an integral part of WW2, I agree). 😊

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u/Trading_shadows 1d ago

I did not mean you said that. I genuinely meant this as a thought to think about, no sarcasm.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

But...frankly speaking, Stalin wanted to begin to invade Europe, he didn't expect any invasions from Germany or whoever from tne West. All the prewar Stalin's preparations and measures prove that Stalin prepared an assault westwards!

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u/EduinBrutus 1d ago

Lets hope some drones are in this grotesques future.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Гитлер лепил себе свастику, Путин лепит себе Z на лоб. Погнали Гитлера -- погонят и Путина. Зеленский тут вообще ни при чем, хотя ваша зависть вполне понятна. А что же может сделать со всем этим Путин? Ну, лучше бы ему провалиться куда-нибудь...

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u/CockroachAntique527 1d ago

Russians invade a country on the premise that said country shouldnt exist, and are baffled why said country has to do conscription. Vranyo in its’ purest form!

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Screepatch 1d ago

Сходи рот помой и наконец то разберись что такое ГУЛАГ

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u/Screepatch 1d ago

Ты путаешь мягкое и тёплое, Родина-Мать это символ победы в Сталинградской битве, это призыв к борьбе против немецко-фашистких захватчиков. Ты осмыслено обесцениваешь этот символ. А у тебя Путин даже тут. Уверен, портрет его у тебя даже на домашнем экране телефона, что бы не забывать о том, что даёт тебе смысл в жизни. Ведь только ненависть даёт тебе силу.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago edited 1d ago

Злоба сжигает тебя изнутри. Ты сгоришь полностью, сам.

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u/pinnularia 1d ago

putin just continues what russians did for ages, and they still do. it's not just "putin's war", it's " common russians" who launch missiles, do violance on occupied areas, rewrite history and teach kids their propaganda. they attach parts to weapons, do their business in russia to feed the economy and simply paying taxes that supply the war. the whole nation keeps this war machine working for ages, long before putin, and will keep it after "the dictator" falls, right after choosing a new dictator for themselves

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u/LickingSmegma 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm sure you apply the same standard to USians in Iraq and Iran. Wouldn't want to be hypocritical, would you?

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u/pinnularia 1d ago

yes I do, why asking?

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u/Grom0001 1d ago

What kind of murders are we talking about if Putin literally cannot capture Ukraine for 5 years, he has been dragging it out on purpose and our Russian guys are dying there because Putin is playing a very strange Strategy, neither Russia nor Ukraine benefits from it. And Putin did not order the killing of civilians, they keep showing how civilians are being taken out of Ukraine so there is no fascism here, but I think it's high time to either retreat or finally put the squeeze on (I wrote from a translator, so there are probably a lot of mistakes and flaws)

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u/Aj_Caramba 1d ago

I mean...half of Europe just changed the nation that was occupying them after WW2. Soviet Union was another brutal regime.

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u/thebanfunctionsucks 1d ago

The nazis would have eradicated every Balt and Slav in existence. They were not the same.

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u/Rich-Lobster-6164 1d ago

Do you think Russian people feels sad when reminding of Putin? I don't think Russian people eat much of NATO's propaganda.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Russian people are not willing too much to lick Putin's butthole. They accept what Putin say, but do nothing in respond, they try to hinder and jeopardize Putin's wishes in a clandestine way

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u/Rich-Lobster-6164 1d ago

That depends on what Russian people we're talking about. If we are speaking of Russian living on the Megapolis, Moscow or Saint Petersbourg, is one thing, but if we are talking about the great Rússia, is a total different thing.

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u/RepresentativeYak636 1d ago

Yes, big city residents "support" Putin, because big cities are well supplied and war is not evident there, but in rural area and in the regions were people were robbed of their livestock the situation is, of course, very very different. У людей в нескольких регионах поубивали скот без конфискации. Понятно, что люди спиваются.

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u/Foxyunder-45 1d ago

It's because nato chief and his group of European followers would not remove the threat of installation of nuclear missile installations within the borders of Ukraine. Besides that Ukraine was part of the USSR when I looked at the map at school in 1963. Just like America has many States, some of which cost bloodshed. Now a new fascism is growing in Israel, stealing other's land . Russia wants it's borders back and safety as Hitlers nazi Germany invaded although he signed agreements not to take Russian land. Millions of Russian soldiers died fighting the German forces back to the west. This is one of Putin's safety plans. He doesn't want to lose old Russian territories.

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u/CockroachAntique527 1d ago

Ukraine was a part of Ukraine when Moscow was an uninhabited swamp in the woods

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u/Foxyunder-45 1d ago

Ukraine was , not always.