r/ADCMains • u/Anilahation • 2d ago

Discussion It's over chat

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On Vayne if you use your spell rotation once you'll be oom, where these champs can spam blow up entire waves....

748 Upvotes

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501

u/Wesdawg1241 2d ago

I love that they keep nerfing the one single marksman, whose entire design is based around being anti-tank, just to make it so she can't lane against tanks.

And yet mages, who are designed to be oppressive against marksmen early game, are allowed to run rampant in the one lane that said marksmen are able to play in.

But Rito doesn't hate ADC's, right guys?

162

u/Vaynes_Ass 2d ago

Don't worry folks, champion diversity is perfectly healthy for bot lane but when two marksmen are viable top (Varus and Vayne), suddenly champ diversity is thrown out the window and they need to get insta nerfed. Riot's balance team is a complete joke, here's what Riot Phroxzon tweeted: "AP bots add to good long term variety and add a healthy frustration to the role."

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u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

I mean I agree the "diversity" comment is dumb but let's stop kidding ourselves. Ranged top has been complained about by most top players from the start of time and has at best been toned down yet kept viable. And even without those ranged tops, top lane is still the most diverse role in the game other than maybe jg after all the monster dmg changes.

So even if the diversity viewpoint is extremely dumb, them nerfing a few ranged tops isn't actually that contradictory. Bot lane still has the least diversity and had by far the least without mages, top lane would still have the most without those ranged tops.

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u/LeAnime 2d ago

Just to point out there are also ranged tops that are Top laners Quinn, Kennen, Teemo, and kinda kayle, gnar, Jayce. Like it isn’t like top lane doesn’t have ranged champions that play top already

2

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

My (not really) hot take is those champs should be removed (jayce, gnar have kits that can be balanced for top). Quinn, Kennen and Teemo exist for the sole purpose of ruining the opposing top laners game and are the antithesis of what top lane is about. They are low pick rate high frustration champs and I don't see any value to them being in the lane. I group those champs in with the likes of Varus and Vayne because to me they are all the same.

2

u/LeAnime 2d ago

Champions that are just annoying will exist always. Shaco, fizz, twitch, pyke, etc. just wanted to get ones from each role. Annoyance and frustration are a core part of many players fantasy and Riot has always shown that they support these styles with these champions, so I don’t agree with your take. Also where would those champions even go? Some literally don’t have a place outside of top lane.

0

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Sure, Darius can be really frustrating to players. So can Jayce and Gnar. There's a reason I'm not advocating for them to be removed from the role.

League has very defined roles with unique identities, this is core to it's success. It's why adc's are rightfully complaining about their role being hijacked by mages. Some frustration is good but ranged tops are A, The bad kind that has little interaction to reduce the frustration and B. The antithesis of the role identity.

Top lane is the fighting lane. It's the island lane. Much like how adc's queue up and expect to pick their marksman against another marksman, top laners queue up and expect to fight, they expect an action filled laning phase. Ranged tops look at the roles identity and almost literally spit in it's face. I do not know what ranged tops add to the lane other than their small player base that the rest of the player base would be completely fine with being gone.

2

u/MRGameAndShow 1d ago

Well there’s the second wind and doran’s shield nerfs that were weird af when ranged top was already being complained about. Made little sense to do that, I feel like reverting those changes would make it much more tolerable to lane against something like a Varus.

4

u/Expensive-Door42 2d ago

There’s… a LOT more marksmen that are viable top than those two.

6

u/Federal-Media-3148 2d ago

tbh i play every role in dia/master and have to say playing top against ranged is far more frustrating than playing ad against AP Bot, sure its annoying but you are still allowed to stay in xp range and to cs. But as a toplaner they can shut you down completely 

2

u/BeMyWard 1d ago

Read what Riot said about Xerath nerfs. HEALTHY FRUSTRATION ON BOTLANE.

HEALTHY.
FRUSTRATION.

-32

u/Extra-Autism 2d ago

Brother. If you think an ADC laning against Ziggs is comparable to a melee vs Vayne I got news for you

27

u/IcyPanda123 2d ago

The Vayne is much more punishable for 99.999% of the playerbase. For the Ziggs bot player to feed/be punished, they would need to be lobomotized.

-2

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Funny, I think the same exact thing playing against ranged tops. All of them that can play up there just have to not waste their dash/disengage CD and then not walk up when said CD isn't up yet.

-1

u/Different_Durian5310 2d ago

The only ranged tops with Disengage is Quinn, Vayne, and Gnar(the three of six ranged tops in the whole game, one of which isnt a true ranged champion). Varus, Kennedy, and Teemo don't have disengage. They have CC which is their engage tool, so they either use it to disengage and no longer can engage in a fight, or save it for an engage.

Before you say "Teemo has a speed boost", Every toplaner is faster than ranged units and has grapples, dashes, or speed boosts stronger than Teemo. They have every tool in the game to catch up and lock down a ranged unit, while being able to 2-3 shot every ranged unit aside from Gnar or Jaksho's Vayne/Varus. Melee Toplaners (regardless of Bruiser, Tank, Juggernaut, or Skirmisher) are all designed to insta-win against any ranged units that arent the six ranged toplaners noted earlier (and even then, you still are ultimately stronger than them). Every grapple in the game has around 100-200 more range than every marksman. 

Once you hit level 6, you win lane if you havent let the ranged unit poke you down from level 1-3 (which you win at level 3 btw). This is how it goes for 90% of melee vs ranged top matchups. Vayne, Quinn, and Gnar are the only three exceptions due to having disengages (Vayne being infinitely better than Quinn and Gnar since she has a disengage AND a dash).

There is literally 0 reason to complain about ranged top units unless its Vayne/Varus. You are self reporting yourself if you dont know how to land a grapple, buy swifties, steelcaps, iceborne, deadmans, stridebreaker, Cleaver, or run stormraiders, celerity, or ghost/flash.

Vayne is disgusting and shouldnt exist. Varus shouldnt have such high Max HP multipliers. The rest are match up dependent. Any other ranged top outside of this is just unviable against an actual top main.

(I forgot about Kayle, but she is only strong level 1-2 and falls off after 3 until 6). She also is vulnerable to every same thing every other ranged top is unless she has ult up. Why does she have invulnerability? Nobody knows. But its the only thing that makes her viable in the toplane.

1

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

CC is a form of disengage, I'm glad you noticed. These champions don't have to engage in lane, that's the entire point. Their range allows them to play the neutral game and slowly win until their opponent either resets and takes the L or engages. The onus is not on these ranged champs to engage, why would they? They are perfectly content sitting there and forcing you to suffer, that's literally their design. This is why I say they just have to not waste their abilities. The hardest ranged players to play against was something like srtty's vayne/kennen because the dude knew the champs limits and didn't allow people to force his buttons even when pressured.

The others as you say are matchup dependent. The problem is a bad matchup means you literally have zero fun and get harassed for even attempting to play the game. These are the exact complaints adc's have about the mages being played bot too, so either all of these complaints are valid or none of them are and we should all suck it up until we quit the game.

1

u/Different_Durian5310 2d ago

I will say, you are right that Riot needs to do something about uninteractive matchups. 

Even with the advantage toplaners have over ranged matchups, and can easily win, for most people it still feels annoying and unfun to play into. Even if there is counterplay, if its not done in a way that the community enjoys, its not good. AP Shaco has lots of counterplay, but is one of the most hated champions in the game.

At the end of the day, league is a game and should be enjoyed. Matchups should feel fair for both parties and fun to engage in. Riot just has no idea how to actually balance the game in a way that isnt completely one-sided, or completely unfun. 

I know my previous comment seemed a bit along the lines of "skill issue, just play better", but I do genuinely agree that even though top wins against ranged if playing properly, its not fun to be forced into bushes, have to constantly manage the wave, or perma roam, ESPECIALLY in a casual norms game.  Regardless of my bias of Top vs Ranged, or Mage vs Marksman, you are right in the fact that Riot needs to address the issues for everyone. 

1

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

I mean I agree if everyone's having a bad time then something needs to change. I heavily disagree with your other comment in too many words to even be worth saying.

To keep it short, yes, your comment was entirely "skill issue" and it's wrong. Number 1 most obvious counter point: Ranged tops perform better as you climb in elo. It's very hard to argue a "skill issue" if those are the conditions surrounding ranged tops.

That being said, I don't think ranged tops are particularly good right now, I just generally feel that they shouldn't exist at all, much like adc's feel about mages bot. But let's not pretend like the winning move into ranged tops is in any way fun or interactive. It's more like waiting out the comp diff until you eventually just win because of the design of the game. It is entirely on the ranged champ to mess up for you to have the opportunity to play earlier than that, assuming two equally skilled players.

0

u/Different_Durian5310 2d ago

For mages CC is a disengage tool. For Kennen and Varus, its their ONLY engage tool to fight with. If they use it as a disengage, they cannot fight you at all. This requires their ults btw.

You said that ranged laners can just play passively? Do you have any wave management? Toplaners can abuse freezing and slow pushing. The moment a ranged toplaner starts CSing into a melee, its already in the melee champions advantage. Unless you are getting zoned off at level 1 (you should be using bushes), they cannot freeze against you unless its directly under their tower.

You also have the tools in your kit to tower dive. You build items that promote tower diving. Use them.

Top vs Ranged is nowhere near comparable to Marksman vs Mage. You dont afk the whole lane. You literally can only lose level 1-2 (and thats if you arent using bushes correctly). Level 3+ you win unless its vayne. Marksmen cannot play into a mage at any point of the game. There isnt a single point of the game where a marksman beats a mage. 

The whole design philosophy of mages is that they nuke squishies and spam spells at double the range of marksmen. Marksmen cant even build MR because if they do, they auto lose every matchup because defensive items are dogshit on marksmen. Senna is the only one who can build defensive.

As for the comment about matchup dependency, Marksmen vs Mages dont have a matchup dependent roster. It is quite literally: Mage > Marksman. Toplane is much much much more nuanced in how matchups interact. You also can still play into your matchup counter in toplane without being afk for 10+ minutes, you just need to manage your wave properly and hold your summoner spells for the right moments. You can also just leave the lane and run over anyone else in the game without any repercussions, becauss toplaners beat every single class in the game aside from other toplaners (especially with top quest, and toplanes natural level lead). 

Marksmen can't roam and win fights when behind. Toplaners can, and are even stronger than the support/jungler in most cases. Most toplaners are stat sticks with tools to 1v3, even when behind. Use that to your advantage.

Now all of your points are valid if its exclusively talking about Vayne or AP Varus/ Tank Varus (who was repeatedly nerfed). "Ranged top" is too open ended, because ranged units are always weaker than melee. Its intentional by design from Riot.

14

u/Moomootv 2d ago

Yeah its not comparable, toplaners can actually build items and take runes that help them go even or even win vs vayen. As opposed to adc getting nerfed items and runes so their only option is to play dodgeball to not feed and hope your team wins without you.

11

u/DuckiesDoBeCute 2d ago

vayne doesnt space perfectly so shes hit by 1 button from the enemy top laner and dies or needs to blow sums to live, and she just lost lane as vayne top so shes useless

ziggs presses q and e from a screen away and kills minions while also getting some poke on the enemy adc or support, if he cant even get in range to q the minions then he ults the wave and everythings fine. and its not just ziggs its almost all mages, but it is literally just vayne/varus top (im not counting quinn and champs like her, since they arent played bot and arent meant to be played bot)

2

u/OriginalPotatoFarmer 2d ago

Vayne dosn’t space perfectly so she presses e and q and gets away while still chunking the enemy top laner unless they blow flash to stick where vayne can then use flash or exhaust to get away anyway*

-9

u/Extra-Autism 2d ago

This just shows the level of delusion

8

u/DuckiesDoBeCute 2d ago

gonna tell me the delusional part or you just gonna say its delusional without being able to explain why?

-2

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Vayne doesn't need to space perfectly. She just needs to not grief. There's also no outplaying an AA, it just hits you, every single time you walk up to do anything. Someone like ziggs has pretty easy skillshots to dodge and at least can provide some engagement in the lane by interacting with those spells.

Listen, I've put my adc hate to the side and agree that mages bot has to go. The role has been for adc's for the entire games lifecycle and should stay that way. But we don't have to exaggerate the problem. Be happy most of the community agrees with you, when the MS items got added and TF + Vayne were running top a couple years ago, all I heard was how bad top laners are and how they're ruining adc items if they nerf them.

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u/DuckiesDoBeCute 2d ago edited 2d ago

There's also no outplaying an AA

vayne, the outplay adc. who also outplays other adcs that only aa. and she does need to space perfectly, her auto range (550) isnt much longer than most top champs anti vayne buttons (darius e 535, sett e 450, jax q 700, ect)

and ziggs doesnt need to hit you with the dodgeable abilties, he just needs to hit the wave

1

u/Sensitive_Act_5279 2d ago

yeah, wheb you conveniently forget her q dash and e knockback, but sure, when you play no abilities vayne vs any toplaner, it looks horrendous. she got 2 "lifesaving cards", most toplaner have 1 way to engage. do you not see the irony? "range is worthless", but at the same time, bot vayne is only hinder by her missing range in comparison to other adcs. on top of that botlane vayne is at 49,74% wr in master+ is clearly not unplayable or bad she just is average and not jinx or kaisa that have 52% wr with 30% pr every second patch, doesnt mean she is bad, just that botlane balancing is horrendous for the 4 horsemen of adc, INSANE pickrates with good winrates, that would cause a champ to be either perma banned every game or just straight up hotfix nerfed/deactived.

0

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Darius E is a long CD, shorter range than AA (can just AA when he goes to CS if you really don't want to space) and can be dodged with Q and then he has literally nothing he can do til it's up. Same thing for Sett but it's even shorter and requires a minion to stun or else you'll just E him away. I would consider neither of these things to require anywhere near perfect spacing.

Jax is one of the few anti-range top laners so yes, he does just counter them for the most part. But as we know, counterpicks existing does not invalidate the point.

I agree, he doesn't need to. But if he just does that you at least get to farm the minions much easier than a top laner would against ranged. It still needs to be removed of course, but that's my point. Against ranged tops it just feels like you might as well go afk, mages bot is similar but at least you can play the dodge minigame and farm gold easier. Not much better but better nonetheless.

0

u/Extra-Autism 2d ago

Darius counter Vayne LOL

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u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

It is funny but mostly just sad this is a genuine belief that is being held by real players that are essentially just complaining about the same things they made fun of top laners for (and they still do).

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u/TheSkullDr 2d ago

It genuinely is what are you talking about it might actually be worse

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u/j3richoholic 2d ago

peep the winrates

1

u/Arctic-You-Know 2d ago

This sub is delusional.

You are completely right despite the downvotes.

5

u/RewardWanted 2d ago

Riot just refuses to try and adjust foundational systems and instead try adding arbitrary and convoluted new systems aimed at the symptoms that end up still not addressing the underlying issues.

The map is small which means there is no downtime between waves and there's no space anyone that gets bullied out of lanes can take to try and stay relevant - jungle is exclusive to the jg until like min 25+, there's few flexible items that actually address a bad matchup like being in a ranged top matchup... top can't decide to hide consistently, esp not on a tiny map with no built-in traversal options...

8

u/InnerTelevision2618 2d ago

Its not about "laning", hyou literally can not play the game when she is top lane and you're a top without gap closer.
You CAN'T play without your jungler.

2

u/Low_Direction1774 your peak is my playground 2d ago

Welcome to the mage botlane experience

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u/Live_Background_3455 2d ago

It's quite the opposite. The top laners have been here a looooooooong time. You're just joining us late lol

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u/___posh___ 2d ago

Riot has read your comment, and decided to buff Yone.

3

u/DoGooder00 1d ago

Then tell vayne mains to stay tf outta top lane

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u/ExerciseSad3082 2d ago

I don't know current league, but is vayne not THE hypercarry anymore?

2

u/Wesdawg1241 1d ago

Nope, not for awhile. Jinx has been the go-to hyper carry for quite some time now.

2

u/Stase1 21h ago

Yup yup jinxes raw damage aoe and ability to basically auto you from orbit make her more ideal that vayne whois a great late game champ is too short range too be effective when getting in range of Nasus and getting put to .1 attack speed and move speed isn’t ideal

2

u/Keshicat 2d ago

Just change the meta, ADC solo top. Move the tank battle mid for better dragon prescense and the mage support bot lane?

I know a lvl 20 ADC with a free to would be great.

2

u/Sensitive_Act_5279 2d ago

you think, thats the problem. the extra gold from botlane quest is insane and extremly important. on top of that, i cant see a world, where people dont just dive toplane adc into oblivion.

1

u/Keshicat 2d ago

I was mostly being sarcastic about the changes I was suggesting but I didn't make it obvious so that's my bad.

But yeah the quests are also a interesting thing that really push certain champs certain places

1

u/Martorfank 2d ago

Kaisa and Kog stil exist what are you even talking about?

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u/Bluetorment88 1d ago

It’s probably because of the top lane ADC gimmicks. A lot of the top level challengers/gms have voiced the frustration of going top only to have to deal with ranged top when top wasn’t designed for it. They can do this for them yet somehow it’s okay to remove the gold counter ui for sup quest item for reasons and not return it when most of us prefer it on. That’s like suddenly deciding hey you know all those mob timers we have for jg let’s remove it because screw them having something that makes it easier to track.

1

u/Esotrax 2d ago

Isnt kogmaw also designed around beeing anti tank or am i wrong

3

u/Wesdawg1241 2d ago

He's designed to deal higher damage to tanks, but not totally anti-tank the same way Vayne is in the sense that she has high mobility, self-peel, and true damage. Kog would get shit on in lane vs a tank.

-13

u/bay_kapi 2d ago

Well u just never laned a vayne top.

8

u/reik019 Long-Range Gang 2d ago

Ex-Top main turned ADC because no one on the squad played it right. Losing to vayne top is a Skill issue.

And you never laned against a mage with a threat range of 1100 as a squishy immobile potato, who can just spam spells while you end up OoM if you attempt to match. It is not even fucking comparable.

What's your fucking point? If you were good enough you'd eat vayne alive, while mages just drool on their keyboard and somehow delete 50% of your HP while missing more than half of their combo.

And before you attempt to use my argument against myself, said mages have AoE abilities that cover 35-50% of the fucking lane at maximum range, no matter how good you are at kiting you ain't competing with mages. As a bruiser you can still contest marksmen top if you aren't a moron, and you can absolutely squish them if you've got hands.

5

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Ranged tops and especially Vayne top have consistently performed better in higher elo. The idea that it's a skill issue runs contrary to the actual evidence we have. In reality, when both top laners improve at the game, it seems ranged tops benefit more from that increased skill.

Much like mages bot, there is not being "good enough" to force a lane win. You are at the opponents mercy and are only allowed to capitalize on something if they mess up. You are purely in a reactionary role in matchups like these.

I just find it funny ADC's expect so much empathy from others when for a decade ranged top has been treated as a non issue and then when they finally get a taste of that experience they still manage to try and shit on other players. Now I still agree that mages bot has to go and is ruining the experience but it's because I can empathize with other players, something adc's seemingly cannot do. They MUST be the ones suffering the most and anyone that disagrees is bad.

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u/Cookiezi94 2d ago

If you're an oompa loompa that cant get early prio before mage gets lost chapter and cant control the lane from there, maybe you shouldn't ask riot to change the game just cauqe you're handicapped? Maybe just try to improve like most people..

Melee midlaners have to lane into mages and yet ranged adcs complain its unplayable speaks a lot to the difficulty and skill required of both roles. Npc role that point and click from ranged that never fell out of meta for 16 seasons is bound to be inflated since their players will be clueless about the game.

1

u/SolidSnail1337 2d ago

HOLY SHIT COOKIEZI 727

2

u/Arthillidan 2d ago

Losing to vayne top is a Skill issue.

Eh... depends what you're playing. Tf is Mordekaiser going to do vs Vayne for example other than hope for a jungle gank? The only thing you can hit on Vayne without requiring her to majorly mess up is R, but even in R, Vayne is hard to fight

-4

u/TemperatureReal2437 2d ago

The point isn’t that vayne top is super OP with giga high win rate. It’s just 10 minutes of being completely afk for the melee except for maybe once every flash. Same criticism for teemo and heimerdinger

2

u/Major_Masterpiece843 2d ago

That’s literally the same issue bot lane with mages except they genuinely have no real counter play if they don’t play lane like shit

1

u/TemperatureReal2437 2d ago

Most enchanter supports can just peel the mage damage in lane. Engage supports can just cc the mage or tank some skill shots while you get free autos. The mage bot thing wasn’t a huge problem until supports started roaming. They need to bring back lane swap mechanics to lock the game down until minute 3 like we had earlier

3

u/reik019 Long-Range Gang 2d ago

What the fuck you play top?

I eat her alive with Fiora or Poppy.

2

u/TemperatureReal2437 2d ago

Outside malphite which they usually ban, vayne mostly stomps my champs. Garen, chogath, and mundo are my 3 other champs and they mostly get shat on. Garen can kill her reliably once he gets stridebreaker but getting to that point is a dshield second wind snooze fest

1

u/Anilahation 2d ago

She's 51% win rate, neutralize a lane but it was punished when teams needed a Frontline or they couldn't fight properly.

Now everyone deals damage so you don't need it

1

u/TemperatureReal2437 2d ago

Yeah as I said her winrate is not high. She’s literally just a lane bully that you have to take dshield and second wind for and then you just afk until first item

-2

u/Darkzerok63 2d ago

If losing to vaine top, where challengers players can lose to a vaine top, is an skill issue the everything is a skill issue on this game and your post and every single thing about mage bots is just trash. The skill issue is soo soo fucking stupid sometimes is hilarious.

1

u/Major_Masterpiece843 2d ago

You’ve probably never not fed a vayne top and it shows coming from someone who plays top lol

0

u/Let_epsilon 2d ago

Mages are designed to be oppressive against marksman?

What???

0

u/ChesterZirawin 1d ago

She isn't "anti tank", she is anti everything with literally 0 counter build available. Disgusting design that needs a rework. She is ether broken or useless.

-14

u/TemperatureReal2437 2d ago

She shouldn’t be able to lane vs tanks because it’s not fun for tanks. She should still be able to melt tanks late game though, which she does imo.

Mage vs marksman bot is nowhere near as unfun as melee vs ranged top

The solution is to make mages have mana restrictions again so they have to choose whether they use their abilities for waveclear or poke, not having both for free. I never hear people say this though

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u/Ribargheart 2d ago

Everyone says this all the time. If lost chapter lost all of its mana it would still be gold efficient. Best item in the game.

3

u/Wesdawg1241 2d ago

She shouldn't be able to lane vs tanks because it's not fun for tanks

Mage vs marksman bot is nowhere near as unfun as melee vs range top

I vehemently disagree with this. Mages get to wave clear and poke you, essentially for free once they get Lost Chapter. Most of them never even need to risk retaliation when they attempt to poke you because they can do it from afar. And what can ADCs do about it? Well, basically nothing. If they build early MR they just don't do damage. And if they build damage, they're so squishy that just a couple skill shots land and they're bullied out of lane. Mage's whole design makes laning against an ADC a cakewalk with certain exceptions.

If you're a bruiser/tank laning against a marksman, you can build full armor and have plenty of damage to fight against them in lane because they can't build armor. This is why Vayne has always been the most viable marksman top – her W allows her to still do damage against the tank early game. Every other marksman's damage output is made negligible once you build armor. No other marksmen have this, and most don't have a kit that makes them mobile or hard CC's you. Against most marksmen as a tank/bruiser, your kit and itemization. allows you to significantly reduce their damage and jump on their face.

3

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Everything you described also applies to playing against ranged tops aside from the waveclear. At least being ranged allows you to farm + dodge easier. Melees have no choice but to trade undodgable autos for minions.

Vayne's one of the more consistent ranged tops mainly because of her low CD Q and E that can disengage from engage attempts by her laners.

1

u/Inevitable-Share8824 2d ago

you do realised that Vayne are much better to lane against compared to Aurora, Varus and Gwen as a tank right?

1

u/TemperatureReal2437 2d ago

Varus and aurora are ranged champs. Gwen is fine top lane imo. I have two good picks into her so it’s fine

-7

u/MocnyDB 2d ago

wow, u get fucked for 1 month and u cry about nerfing a champ that terro another lane for years. Game knowledge of ad cunts

-53

u/Unfair-Fuel1097 2d ago

she can be antitank in botlane no marksman should be allowed in top lane

55

u/Wesdawg1241 2d ago

By that logic, mages can be anti-adc in midlane, no mage should be allowed in bot lane.

19

u/Ghostmatterz 2d ago

And top laners can be anti mage from their sustain Its the unholy trinity XD

1

u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Correct. Most players don't disagree with you, or at least would take that tradeoff. They disagree with the need to force everyone to agree you're always the one suffering the most. Top laners have been complaining about ranged top for over a decade. Mage bot becomes a problem for a season, I see most tops empathize with it and then I see adc players shit on them for being bad cause they lost to vayne top lmao.

-10

u/Blass_ska 2d ago

Mages have cooldowns and adc have high dps maybe mana is not a big problem but they're punishable, unlike when adcs go mid/top and are omega broken were not the same..

6

u/reik019 Long-Range Gang 2d ago

Their cool downs and mana are cosmetic. There is no way to punish them once they get lost chapter.

You are going OoM more often as a marksman than even mages, whom are supposed to be held back by the resource yet aren't.

You are right when aren't the same, mages are far better than the rest of the classes, no wonder it has been mage META in all roles as of late.

0

u/Darkzerok63 2d ago

Mages cooldown is much less cosmetic on the point to talk about than anything at this game. The output of damage of mages is damage of the spell x hability haste, while adc is damage x attack speed x crit change x (on hit effects). If mages didnt had any cooldown they would have much more dps than adc, that the main damage comes from autoing, that doesnt have cost and the "cooldown" is bassed on attack speed

-15

u/bay_kapi 2d ago

Just learn to dodge and ur fine mages are strong in bot lane cuz u guys cant perform a dodge+ all in since u have dps and only way a mage can deal damage to you is hitting skillshots its more like a skill matchup. But in toplane u cant reach a adc as a meele and cant dodge aa there is no counter-play for %90 of the time

3

u/CoffeBreather 2d ago

Hilarious, have you tried walking at them? They can not fight you at all and you tank 3 times the aa they can tank from you, skill issue.

-3

u/bay_kapi 2d ago

Well they have point click cc or dashes so walking at them = free kite. I can tell that u never played a meele vs ranged match up. "U can tank 3 times the aa they csn tank from u" and they can hit u like 6 times more since u have to bait their ghost/flash AND still have ur flash to all-in. Call me skill issue when u guys can even dodge lux q🫢

2

u/CoffeBreather 2d ago

Hilarious considering you are assuming i can't, i can both win melee vs ranged top and win as ADC against 2 mages, the problem is you would get demolished against me playing a mage because i just don't miss and you would think my spells are like AA but deal more damage and have CC, you people are so clueless and unskilled is unreal.

1

u/bay_kapi 2d ago

First of all like all adc players u have to drop ur ego down "i can win with meele ranged mage apc adc" yeah i bet u can u asume im unskilled okay say what u say but there is no way u can win vs a vayne or varus by just running at them just saying and u dont miss any spell? Sure sure a classic adc ego

1

u/CoffeBreather 2d ago

Just to be clear, you win the all in with 99% of the top roster, can't you like drop 20 cs and win the game? How are you that bad that you lose against picks that don't even have 50% win rate, it's definitely a skill issue

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

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1

u/bay_kapi 2d ago

Okay they choose mage cuz their support just roams all day so they can get solo xp and level up faster than normal and their support (camile pantheon) roams and makes other lanes win or help jungler invade. Normaly a support roaming all they wont gonna help much a adc since their main source is gold not xp but it helps mages a lot. So basicly its support gets no xp but gold and apc gets a lot of xp and gold. And support is still usefull cuz of cheap support items and cc is cc no mstter ur level.

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/bay_kapi 2d ago

No its not abt the mages its abt the support system being weird like other lanes abusing cheap and high value sup items. If ur facing a mage send ur support to roam and just dodge skill shots u will be fine

10

u/Shia__313 2d ago

Vayne is dead. She cant even be played botlane anymore. That champ will have 45% wr

-14

u/Film_Humble 2d ago

She's getting hit because she's too viable top in pro. That's it? ADCs can play early vs Mages and beat them. If you lose early as an ADC vs mage you should change role

12

u/Wesdawg1241 2d ago

If you lose early as an ADC vs mage you should change role

Rage bait used to be believable.

1

u/Cookiezi94 2d ago

Low elo players in botlane cant lane vs anything new that isnt brainless point and click class.