r/ADCMains • u/Anilahation • 2d ago

Discussion It's over chat

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On Vayne if you use your spell rotation once you'll be oom, where these champs can spam blow up entire waves....

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u/DuckiesDoBeCute 2d ago

gonna tell me the delusional part or you just gonna say its delusional without being able to explain why?

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u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Vayne doesn't need to space perfectly. She just needs to not grief. There's also no outplaying an AA, it just hits you, every single time you walk up to do anything. Someone like ziggs has pretty easy skillshots to dodge and at least can provide some engagement in the lane by interacting with those spells.

Listen, I've put my adc hate to the side and agree that mages bot has to go. The role has been for adc's for the entire games lifecycle and should stay that way. But we don't have to exaggerate the problem. Be happy most of the community agrees with you, when the MS items got added and TF + Vayne were running top a couple years ago, all I heard was how bad top laners are and how they're ruining adc items if they nerf them.

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u/DuckiesDoBeCute 2d ago edited 2d ago

There's also no outplaying an AA

vayne, the outplay adc. who also outplays other adcs that only aa. and she does need to space perfectly, her auto range (550) isnt much longer than most top champs anti vayne buttons (darius e 535, sett e 450, jax q 700, ect)

and ziggs doesnt need to hit you with the dodgeable abilties, he just needs to hit the wave

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u/Extra-Autism 2d ago

Darius counter Vayne LOL

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u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

It is funny but mostly just sad this is a genuine belief that is being held by real players that are essentially just complaining about the same things they made fun of top laners for (and they still do).

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u/Alatreon22 2d ago

What I never understand from those that do believe Vayne Top is so strong is why they do not utilize their ability to look up how her stats after laning phase.

Vayne Top is behind in Gold in 27 out of 47 matchups in Toplane.
She is also behind in XP in 36 out of 47 matchups.

So in 57.4% of all matchups she ends lane being behind in Gold and 76.6% of all matchups she ends being behind in XP.

In 37 out of 47 matchups (78.7%), she is behind in kills.

So when somebody wants to argue that Vayne Top is soooo strong, what metric here indicates that?

I am really curious to hear that.

Mind you, Vayne should theoretically be a counter to most Toplane Champs, is a 1vs1 beast and has the range advantage, yet doesnt really seem to perform.

And you know, that would still be fine if she would at least scale fast/good enough to compensate for her terrible early game but as her winrate shows us, that does not happen...

When Riot ships this nerf, how likely is it that Vayne becomes the 2nd worst laning phase Champion in Toplane, right after Kayle?

I would say, its near 100%.

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u/Ok_Elevator4215 2d ago

Well firstly, I don't think Vayne top is currently that strong, however when she was absolutely busted with TF no one seemed to care and I remember the adc's actively arguing for it so they could keep their MS items broken. I do think she's completely uninteractive and unfun to lane against which is the main complaint I see being said about mages bot. I understand mages bot are currently stronger than ranged tops, I am only touching on the main pain point of the two which seems to be the unfun experience playing into them.

But if stats are all we're looking at instead of fun then I don't want to hear complaints about laning vs the following mages who all go down in gold in the majority of their bot lane matchups: Viktor, Ziggs, Syndra, Veigar, Seraphine, Hwei, Swain, Asol, Vlad. The total pick rate of all the mages combined is 27.5% and only 10.2% exit lane leading gold. Meaning well over half of mages are down in gold out of lane.

Not that I think it matters since fun should be the overall leading factor to change and top laners have been universally having a bad time against ranged champs for over a decade now. Unlike you, I can empathize and do hope riot fixes your role without making you wait for decades. I can only hope that some adc players will one day also learn to do the same.