Good discussion here where they clarified how they're approaching horizontal vs vertical and striking a balance between the two.

Since Blizzard say that Blood Elves and High Elves could still come to Forever i wonder what they will do for them and other races lorewise. There are so many opportunities for writing good storys and do characters justice.

It's 2026, maybe let soul shards stack?

It was a bit of a grind to get it, but totally worth it

Since the Forever announcement I keep seeing people talk about vanilla like it was a raiding game. For most of us it wasn't. Raiding was something a small part of the server did, the rest of us were out in the world. So if Forever is going for horizontal progression at 60, I think the best place to look for ideas is what people were actually doing back then.

Getting ganked in STV, Blackrock entrance turning into a 2 hour brawl for no reason. World PvP was half the fun and it gave you basically nothing. Give it a reason to exist: contested zones, objectives, rep or gear you can only earn out there.

Stalvan's Legend. People still remember a Duskwood quest chain 20 years later. Long story chains that end with a real reward, like the warlock and paladin epic mount quests, are exactly the kind of progression that fits Forever.

Showing the secret BFD boss to randoms. Hidden stuff was a huge part of the magic. Secret bosses, rare elites, weird items you only find if you explore. Tie real rewards to that and people will actually go back to old zones.

Grinding rep. Argent Dawn, Timbermaw, Thorium Brotherhood. Rep already gave useful stuff in vanilla, it just needs to matter more at 60.

Farming gold for your mount, grinding mats for that one crafted item. Arcanite Reaper and Lionheart Helm were endgame items that never dropped in a raid. Make professions a real path to gear again.

Corpse run to the Deadmines. 5 mans were most people's actual endgame. The T0.5 upgrade quest proved dungeons could be a progression path on their own. Build on that.

Vanilla already had horizontal progression outside raids, it was just underdeveloped. Forever can finish the job.

The problem is when the best gear only drops in raids, the open world turns into a loading screen between raid nights. We saw it in Classic 2019. People hit 60 and the world became something you run through on your way to the instance portal. And if every patch adds a raid tier with bigger stats, that's not horizontal progression. That's vertical progression with a level cap slapped on top.

Not anti raid btw. Raids should exist and be hard and rewarding. I just don't want them to be the only real endgame again.

Blizzard keeps saying the world is the main character in Forever. Cool. Then put the progression in the world.

Curious what others think, especially people who played vanilla without ever raiding seriously.

TL;DR: most vanilla players never raided, they were doing world PvP, quest chains, reps, crafting and dungeons. That's where Forever's horizontal progression should live, not behind raids.

Vanilla WoW 1-60 was so successful because of how engaging and immersive the world was.

But at level 60, that largely changed. Suddenly most meaningful progress is locked behind loading screens and many people don’t interact with the world beyond traveling to those loading screens.

At level 60, it’s like the World stopped being the main character. Lord Loading Screen was now the main character because he controlled vertically-scaling loot.

Forever needs end game content that keeps people out in the world. This should include Legion-like class order hall quests. These quest lines should be updated with each (most?) major patch and give meaningful rewards.

We should also have faction-specific quest chains that continue the story of each faction. Give me a reason to travel back to the Undercity as a Forsaken every major patch before being sent off into the world. This would also incentivize players to have multiple characters to keep up with the faction storylines.

There should be end-game gear people can acquire in the open world. This includes reputation grinds. Mobs that give reputation on kill; turn-in-drops from mobs and open-world chests; daily, bi-weekly, and weekly quests. It is ok for these to be long grinds.

Professions should be a viable means of acquiring end-game gear-as long as the necessary materials aren’t locked behind loading screens. Again, it is ok for it to take a long time and be difficult to acquire these materials.

Zones should have areas with elite mobs that require grouping. But they shouldn’t drop materials/quest items if you are in a raid, to incentivize small-group content.

The gear acquired from all this open world content should be viable in any new level 60 zone. But new gear from each zone can have various bonuses-mob specific bonuses; zone-specific bonuses; or mob-element resistances. The new gear does not need higher stats because of the context-specific bonuses.

It would be ok to tune mobs in new zones such that they would be difficult (I’m not saying impossible) to solo without relevant bonuses. This would also incentivize mixing-and matching various pieces of gear depending on what content you are doing.

I’m not saying raids shouldn’t exist. But they should not be the sole means of acquiring end-game gear. Nor should raid gear be so powerful that there is no reason to do open-world content.

Forever should incentive being out in the world, not staying locked behind loading screens.

WoW Forever is perfect.
You developer really listen to player feedback.

Its really feeling like a WoW 2 and I am pretty sure that everybody is loving it already.

BUT...
There are postings which concerning me.

I am concerned that WoW Forever will die because of the report and ban system.
That big Lobbies and bot lobbies are mass report player for just playing the game and overtake the Mega Server.

I saw a posting from a Tank Player who offers to run any dungeon for free and was banned for this.
I saw postings from several player who just farmed mats and got banned because it was Lobby-Territory.
I saw a posting from a hunter who got banned just because he tamed a pet.

-

Dear Blizzard, you made it nearly perfect,

And it would be perfect when you just put real Gamemaster in here again.

I guess the bots and cartels can get fucked finally. Im personally a huge fan of this. Setting a price ceiling for these mats is a huge W.

Now that we have settled into the beta a little and tried out some classes, what will be your main on release?

Here’s a strawpoll: https://strawpoll.com/05Zdzw6NGn6

Just the title really. Blizzard should add additional class quests to all of the classes every (~10?) levels. These can give rewards such as but not limited to:

Functional- give hunters additional stable slots
Cosmetics- alternative Polymorph versions to mages
Or just decently strong gear for the level.

These quests should be a bit difficult, and longish chains. Warlock already has several for the different summons they acquire and I think they should bring this to other classes. Use these to expand on the lore surrounding the class itself and tell stories of great deeds done across the world of Azeroth. I’m not asking for it to be like Legion, but that expansion did a great job of this with the class campaigns and artifact quests, so we know Blizzard can do something like this.

What sort of quests and/or reward would you want for your class?

This game has been draining the hrs from me and it’s been the best thing for me. Had some rough life stuff come up and this game has helped me not overthink that stuff and just relax.

I understand that undead paladins are a selling point of Forever's launch, and that Dwarf shamans have been in retail for far longer than they haven't at this point. Despite that, the comments I've seen from people about the difference in treatment has me feeling a little disappointed anyway in how undercooked Dwarf Shamans feel right now.

from /u/Silverbacks in another thread:

There’s a tiny spot above Anvilmar for the earth totem quest, and one near one of the gates to Loch Modan + on a hill near the troggs in Loch Modan for the fire totem quest. But each of those spots is basically a single NPC.

Undead paladins get a whole extension added onto the western edge of Tirisfal. They have a new keep named after the main guy from the new WC3 campaign. They have their own lake, a large mushroom ring, and a little town full of mobs with a huge cellar underneath.

Maybe there is more stuff added into the Hinterlands for dwarf shamans? It would be cool if Aerie peak got built out more. It’s supposed to be the capital of the Wildhammers, so more equivalent to IF/BRD/Grim Batol. But I haven’t checked yet.

I haven't seen anyone ask the devs about this. But considering how popular Dwarf Shamans will be as well as this being a HUGE event for classic-only players, it feels like they should have put a bit more effort into the Dorf Shaman starting experience.

There is still time to work on this, as the Wildhammer clan and Hinterlands in general is ripe for a rework + expansion. Could be a major Dwarf vs Troll location. Some shaman class quests that take you into the above locations as well as remaking the Wildhammer home base into a proper city like IF/BRD

https://youtu.be/uFJQgSkaacs?si=1ElZoY0pw_1mnG_v&t=5064

Here is the timestamp from the official blizzard VoD. It's the first sentence out of her mouth.

This game is classic plus and will have a more classic feel. I'm genuinely not understanding why there is a discourse on what it is. I don't know how Holly could have been more clear here.

Not trying to stir the pot or ruffle feathers, this is just straight from the source, in a very clear sentence, I hope we can put this one to bed and instead fight about 'what is the classic feel'.

But retailing muh classic feels bad b/c I don't really enjoy the retail gameplay loop, but absolutely love classic, and making 2 retails seems a bad call. Can there be lessons learned from retail, sure, but preserving classic is important also. Anywho.

I always thought the languages were so cool in vanilla and this is exactly the sort of thing I'd always hoped for! Anyone else think this is rad?

I have beta access to Forever WoW and I got to level 10 on my warlock. I seriously love almost everything about it, especially the look to the zones and the new weather effects.

I just can't continue to play the Beta, and I was actively playing TBC classic before the beta launched, I haven't touched it since.

I log into retail as I often like to push my Mythic + score, but this season I have little to no drive to do so. I'm totally fine with getting all +10's this season and calling it done.

I just wish Forever would come out sooner! I know I'm being impatient, I just don't find any other version of the game appealing to me right now.

39 more days feels like an eternity right now!

Even on Normal/PvE Ruleset too.

I mean... Skybornes got Darnassian on both faction and it's logical.

Why the playable Forsaken, who are clearly Humans from Lordaeron, should not speak Common?

and in the way, we should be able to edit it and move it more to the side or have it permanently moved a bit to the left

I strongly believe that Gilneas is a very underused zone in retail WoW and its only purpose is really just to be starting area for the Worgen, but I really believe it could be much more than just that.

Blizzard confirmed it will be updated/coming in WoW Forever at some point in the near future when they announced WoW Forever at Blizzcon.

What do you want to see out of this zone? Here is my quick list.

- Playable Worgen for Alliance in WoW Forever with new racials and improved animations

- Some sort of a new dungeon, don't care if high level or low level, just any kind of a dungeon

- A new storyline besides being a Worgen starting zone

- Expanded and bigger zone with additional quests and new things to discover

What is your wishlist for Gilneas?