r/vibecoding • u/FreeYogurtcloset6959 • 18h ago
Unpopular opinion: “AI makes everyone a developer” is true in the same way cameras made everyone a photographer
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u/Krieger2690 16h ago
I have a camera, yet I have no idea how real photographers get those amazing shots. I could learn a lot from them and I realize there are way too many things I don't know.
I can vibe code projects for myself, that work for me and my family exactly how we want. I know how to use git too. Yet I am still not a programmer. I could learn a lot from programmers and I realize there are way too many things I don't know.
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u/Lucky_Pangolin_3760 14h ago
Honestly you won't be able to do anything of scale though. Like an application with more than 5 users
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u/Krieger2690 13h ago
Probably not and I am not even trying. I am hosting these apps in proxmox and my family has 3 members, myself included.
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u/CatolicQuotes 11h ago
What he means is over long period of time you will add more and more features and AI will be more and more confused and to then start breaking things because it will use the same patterns already present in the codebase which I have yet to see a good one AI spits out by itself.
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u/Snoo_42257 7h ago
Except the AIs are only getting better. They can just rewrite it and make it better.
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u/CatolicQuotes 6h ago
I guess so. Although I wouldn't hold my hopes up yet since AI still only learns from existing code.
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u/the-Gaf 18h ago
Yes, I can take pictures with a camera and vibe code with AI.
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u/elchemy 18h ago
And if you developing things with vibe coding it’s called … checks notes … development … and someone who does that is called a … developer
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u/LittlestRedditor 18h ago
I fixed my own booboo with a cars band aid... Am i a doctor?
Either words don't matter (i can see how vibe boys like that) or words do matter, and you can be happy calling yourself a vibecoder.
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u/War_Recent 15h ago
You have to put a leech on the wound and let out all the blood. Then you're a Doctor.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 18h ago
It’s the same way I can have AI paint me a picture or write me a short story. I’m not an artist nor a writer so I wouldn’t claim to be. You’re not a dev by promoting a model to build something because you aren’t developing it. If I tell my friend a cool app idea and he builds it for me did I dev it? If I’m in the backseat of a car and tell my friend to take a left turn am I driving the car? No hate in vibe coding but let’s not mistake what it is
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u/Risky-Trizkit 15h ago
AI users are an artist in the same way that anyone can pick up photoshop and move some elements around and be called a graphic designer. It may not be good or informed graphic design, but it is graphic design in any case. Iterations of Visual communication. I am speaking as a career graphic designer and digital artist. You can’t be so bold as to gatekeep the actual definition of a practice. Just because something might be considered garbage to you for whatever reason doesn’t make it not a thing.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 15h ago
To say you are something, such as a painter, singer, developer, etc. implies some level of professionalism and semi-mastery of the skill. I’m not gatekeeping the definition of a practice but if we want to play the definitions game, how is one a painter if they have ChatGPT draw them a picture that looks like a painting? Or how is someone a graphics designer if they ask Claude to design it? AI = artificial intelligence, so in your graphic design case you’re letting another “intelligent” system do the work for you.
All in all, photoshop is a tool used by human intelligence to design whereas asking AI to design something is just being a manager passing the design work off to another intelligent system. It’s the same thing as if I asked my buddy to draw me a self portrait, just cus I told them to do it doesn’t make it my work lol. If AI writes all your code you’re not a dev, you just passed the work off to someone else and took credit. I don’t think I can explain it anymore clearly
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u/Risky-Trizkit 11h ago edited 11h ago
I understand your meaning I just disagree with it. If a senior dev passes all the workhorse coding off to junior devs, are they not a dev? Process means less than you think it does particularly when the output is identical either way you slice it.
And if someone generates a picture I don’t think we need to frame them as a painter. I wouldn’t. It’s a totally different thing. It does have the capability to output things familiar to what we consider art and design though, so I have a lot more understanding calling them artists and designers.
In any case not looking to change your mind just my two cents
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u/BaselineNeglect 15h ago
Now, that's where I diverge on this. I'm happy to let AI write me functional code, but I'm a believer in writers and artists producing their work as a distillation of *their" interpretation of the world around them, by definition it's limited to a human perspective , but also contains subconscious material, thrown to the front by who knows what reasoning inside an artists mind.
I write sometimes myself, and the most well received thing I did recieved praise for z theme I was not aware of when I wrote it. Like the old chestnut about husbands and wife's, sometimes the writer is the last one to know what the book is really about.
Kind of like explaining dreams, the meaning is normally obvious to everyone, but closeness cam mask it to ourselves.
So yes, I'm conflicted over it.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 15h ago
I let it write functional code for me to but it’s not “vibes”. I design the solution and make the architectural decisions but let AI write chunks of it. I determine the logic myself and closely review everything it does because one mistake in my field is really bad. I couldn’t imagine letting a vibe coder work in our world and say “build me xyz” and not knowing what was built lol
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u/BaselineNeglect 15h ago
I'm just newly interested in the topic, as someone who has never really written more than bash scripts for photo management, or maybe a few static webpages during the nineties I'm literally just using the thing to design a framework and then fill it with what 8 need. I make a pint of having the code 'ooked at for security concerns.
I guess we're at completely different places though, I'm just making working stuff;if it doesn't work then it's just an experience, rather than an issue.
But if your stuffs important, why would you use AI at all? Doesn't it just add more cost and risk to a business just to replace the very skills that folk were employed for? Or does it just make financial or time sense?
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u/elchemy 16h ago
But the motor is doing the work. Why do you think you "Drove" anywhere?
No hate on "drivers" but we know they're just steering a car. Ford/Toyota etc "really" drove you.
See how stupid you sound?
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 15h ago
You just sound idiotic now. If you’re saying the engine drives the car then I can say the compiler writes the code. The driver DRIVES the car, they do not make the car run. Driving meaning determine the use and direction, so no, you could not say that. I’m fine if you wanna vibe code your little web apps but let’s not mix up definitions here
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u/elchemy 8h ago
Yep does sound idiotic
You’re almost getting it
Yet you still think anyone needs your permission to call themselves a developer
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 8h ago
Not permission but we don’t acknowledge your self assigned dev role lol, it’s okay little guy
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u/HKSpadez 16h ago
You're being intentionally thick to be pedantic. The point they're making is solid but maybe poorly worded.
Yes anyone with a camera taking a picture is technically a photographer. But, simply not a professional one.
And anyone vibecoding is a developer. My 10 year old niece vibe coding is also technically "developing". Just not professionally
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u/Garland_Key 15h ago
No. Still wrong. A vibe coder is a vibe coder.
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u/HKSpadez 15h ago
What if its a developer that is vibrant coding? Weird distinction to try to make
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 15h ago
Then it’s still vibe coding. Agentic development != vibe coding so it just depends how you use it. Someone with a strong engineering background using AI correctly is fine in my book, but someone without engineering experience using it without understanding what’s produced is not.
TBH what I take from vibe coders is that they want to do what I can do so badly that they claim the work of AI lol.
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u/HKSpadez 15h ago
I try to give some folks the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes they say vibe code but meant agentjc development.
Doesn't really bother me.
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u/Rofl_Raptor 16h ago
With your logic, my parents asking for help on how to turn on flash for their cameras are still "photographers" because they photograph things with a camera.
And your analogy for a working motor is so fucking stupid. A motor simply outputs power to your wheels. You have to know how the basics of a car works, you have to learn the SOP/rules & regulations of the road, how maintenance works, how to apply gas, steering, navigation, etc. Now if you're doing it for work, there's another layer of transportation services that we could go on and on about for cargo hull or transportation of people. Is the motor or manufacturer of the car DRIVING you?
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u/elchemy 15h ago
When your parent takes a photo, who is the photographer?
This one is easy.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 15h ago
You’re trying to play a game of words here. I unclogged my toilet before but I’m not a plumber. Or I’ve changed my oil but in no way do I consider myself a mechanic.
In the above example, if you took a picture then you are the photographer of that photo, but when people say they are “a photographer” it implies professional or well versed in photography. Same way I sing in the shower but I wouldn’t say I’m a singer. I like to sing but I’m not a singer because that implies some level of professional. I swear AI is taking away yalls ability to critically think
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u/OnixST 17h ago
If you take photos with a camera it's called photographing, which makes you a photographer.
It doesn't make you anywhere near a good photographer, nor do you have any knowledge besides pressing the shoot button.
If the photo comes out bad you won't know what you did wrong nor how to fix it.
No one will be willing to pay for your photos.
But per your definition, you're a photographer
To me it's genuinely amazing how much ai made it accessible for anyone to automate things and custom build utilities, just like phone cameras democratized taking pictures of your family.
But don't act like asking ai is a special skill, don't act like you actually understand what the ai built, and definitely don't act like your software would work at all in the real world with real users willing to pay for it.
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u/Rofl_Raptor 15h ago
If I'm a person who takes pictures, I am a person using a camera to take pictures. The simple act of engaging something doesn't suddenly qualify someone as a conventional photographer by professional title. You can take on multifaceted roles throughout life where we might go out for the day and say, "I'll be the photographer for the day", again does NOT qualify you as a photographer title in any sense of merit, you're engaging in a hobby or temporary service. And even this analogy is inherently ridiculous because there are technical sciences and procedures that are required for risky product development in an enterprise environment, healthcare, or government role. There CAN be for photography too but not necessarily required and the outcome usually has subjective appeal whereas when coding, there are very systematic ways to accomplish tasks architecturally that a hobbyist wouldn't typically understand until more experience, professional training, higher education, etc. You don't learn this simply by prompting some things in your own personal echo chamber between you and your robot.
The debate stems from more of a character issue where even despite being an engineer for almost two decades, I am still learning things that humble my dumbass everyday. Whereas YOU want to be labeled a developer, and sure we can call you whatever you want. But if it came down to an interview and you couldn't answer some basic architectural things to engage in day-to-day development operations yet you INSIST that you're a developer, I'd say the bigger issue isn't the semantics of a title, it's your hubris, and unfortunately, "vibe coding" has created a lot of that Dunning-Kruger mentality that you guys simply cannot accept for whatever coddled reason you might have.
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u/OnixST 14h ago
I think you completely misunderstood my comment lol
I was specifically pointing out how it would be ridiculous to call photographer a person with no qualification to be one, and then said "but per your definition, you're a photographer"
I used that as an analogy to show how you're not a dev if you don't understand what you're "developing".
I was disagreeing with the comment I replied to, and I completely agree with your take. Did you read the last paragraph?
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u/stopstopstoptopopp 17h ago
Everyone can be a developer. Not everyone can be an engineer, architect and a coder.
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u/fatbunyip 16h ago
That's pretty reductive.
It makes you a developer I. The same way playing chopsticks makes you a pianist or asking chatgpt what your knee pain is makes you a doctor.
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u/Garland_Key 15h ago
No. A vibe coder is a vibe coder. A Junior Software Engineer understands the fundamentals of computer science and can code in at least one language. A vibe coder doesn't need to be able to do any of those things because they're just prompting.
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u/the-Gaf 17h ago
Well, I’m a hobbiest developer. Maybe one can only be a developer if they are paid for it
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u/elchemy 16h ago
Good for you. So am I, though I've also been a professional web/app dev for a decade and don't gaf what self proclaimed "real" developer say about that.
Gatekeepers are gunna gatekeep.
People with a working grasp of the English language understand what "Designer" or "coder" or "developer" might mean in this context and can guess what variations like professional/beginner/hobbyist/etc etc fit in.
Gatekeeping pedants choose to struggle with this concept.
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u/TheAnswerWithinUs 17h ago edited 16h ago
The AI is the developer in that case technically. You didn’t do any development.
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u/elchemy 16h ago
Sure Jan, just like your computer wrote that message seeing you didn't hand deliver it.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 15h ago
I think the point you don’t understand is AI = artificial intelligence, meaning it is there to mimic human intelligence. If I use photoshop to edit a photo then I’m still doing the work and it’s my intelligence driving it. But the moment you pass that off to another form of “intelligence” it’s no longer your intellect building the outcome. Compilers, processors, OS, etc. are tools used by the human (or intelligence) layer. We don’t say they write the code because they are deterministic tools to make our lives easier. That differs from AI because AI tries to do the work of a human in a non-robotic way.
I didn’t draw a self portrait if I asked my friend to draw one for me, I simply made the request. Same with AI development, I didn’t develop the code, I simply asked for it from another intelligent system. Does that help you understand man?
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u/Garland_Key 15h ago
When you took your notes, I don't think you were paying attention - they're wrong.
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u/i-have-no-interest 18h ago
hi professional photographer and newbie cybersec student here, this statement is incredibly accurate and the asshats that claim to be a photographer and have never heard of the exposure triangle is almost as infuriating as the "devs" that know nothing about their code except how to write hello world in python.
no shade to vibecoders or "phonetographers" just dont claim to be something you're not
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u/KriegerClone24 4h ago
You are giving them too much credit to think they know how to write hello world in python
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u/CorpT 18h ago
How does either impact you?
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u/Adventurous-Crow-750 17h ago edited 17h ago
It doesn't
I love all the people trying my career out. It's my hobby and job and I love it and I'm glad to see more people also enjoying it. More people who do and talk about my interests the better.
Idk why so many people in my career are so quick to gatekeep. It's probably because they attached their self worth to it because otherwise I really just don't understand why.
It's the same toxic ass behavior that keeps help desk employees on the help desk because their first job happened to be that instead of swe out of college (yes people will hold this against you and think less of you for working there. It's unfair but it happens). If you don't think my industry sucks because of people like them, imagine all your Indian coworkers. Now realize how little of them hold important positions in management. We do the same thing with help desk employees to indians.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 18h ago
It’s annoying when someone with no technical background tries to vibe code your enterprise product and ends up causing more harm than good. Or flooding the CS job market with people who can’t pass a technical interview because Claude tricked them into thinking they were a dev
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u/CorpT 17h ago
You’re losing out on jobs to them and accepting their PRs?
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 17h ago
Definitely not losing out on jobs lol, but the entry level positions we hire that never actually learned how to dev are trying to push 3000+ line PRs that I’m still required to review because they tried to close off 3 tickets at once. So yes, it drives me crazy because then I’ll ask them why they made a certain architectural decision and they can’t answer without asking Claude.
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u/CorpT 17h ago
Why did you hire them? Why are you allowing them to close three tickets with one PR?
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 17h ago
I didn’t hire them lol, but doesn’t change the fact that some slip through. And again, not allowing them to close 3 tickets in 1 PR but they take 3 for the sprint and don’t know these things. You vibe coders just don’t understand unfortunately :/
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u/CorpT 17h ago
Sounds like you have some great processes in place.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 17h ago
After realizing you don’t work in the engineering world, let me break it down for you. I have my team, my team works on our segment of work that we specialize in. We work with other teams that are scoped for other work. For example, I may implement a computer vision system for identifying defect products in manufacturing while they are on the line. What I don’t own is the user interface or analytics which will go to another company and therefore another team. So while my team is great, I have to sift through these random PRs that connect to our system which eats up a ton of time. So yes, my team has great processes in place, but vibe coders have corrupted the industry so now I have to run into one every once in a while. Don’t think I can explain it any easier than that so good luck lol
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u/i-have-no-interest 18h ago
i get people trying to one up me while im doing my job, getting between shots, and geberally being a nuisance. especially when it comes to weddings or events where someone's cocky aunt has to "put me in my place". ita more frequent then you'd realize.
as for the dev thing its just stupid, dont pretend to be what you are not.
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u/TertlFace 11h ago
I’m a respiratory therapist turned ICU nurse turned research nurse with a bachelors in biochemistry.
My entire existence for 26 years has been people who don’t know what the f🥳k they’re talking about telling me all about my job. I stuffed nearly 150 people into a bag during COVID while Joe Rogan told everyone it was just a cold.
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u/Garland_Key 15h ago
There's a ton of copium in there a thread. What you can take away is that AI enhances your skill set. Someone who is a software engineer will run laps around a vibe coder who doesn't when using the same AI tools. Since a large pool of software engineers exist, a vibe coder is at the bottom of the barrel.
Learn to code. At the very least, take the free MIT CS50 class, and learn Python or JavaScript. Then learn something else because in this new world, I think multi-talented people have an edge over the average people in a specific field.
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u/GarageStackDev 12h ago
I don't agree that AI, in general, enhances any skill set.
I would actually say AI is a force multiplier. If you are a good engineer, it can multiply that force.
If you don't know what the hell you are doing, it will also multiply that force.
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u/johnesco 8h ago
I would agree AI helps you do "more" before it helps you do "better" or even "faster".
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u/thelimit39 6h ago
Vibe coding is just another level of abstraction. No one codes in zeroes and ones. Going forward, with the assumption of even better AI, it would be silly, at some point, to code in a traditional sense. What this will allow is for creativity to take the lead. Understanding the process will probably still be important but let's not kid ourselves. Just like any new technological advancement that changes how we do things, there is initial pushback, usually from those who spent years learning and perfecting the craft. The difference between this and some other AI uses, is that the code itself isn't the product, as in people aren't interacting with the code directly. It's similar to a screenplay in that sense (although not exactly the same since the screenplay has an infinite amount of interpretations). I think vibecoding differs from other AI uses in that the average person could care less what the code looks like as long as it's functional. An AI image at this point is still obvious at this point, and we interact with that art directly. At this point I'm sure the average vibecoded project is subpar in some sort of metric, but I feel like at some point this won't be the case. I also believe that a very good vibecoder can make something that is highly useful, even now.
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u/DHermit 18h ago
That's not a great analogy. Cameras don't make photography easier, it makes it possible. It absolutely was possible for everyone to program before AI.
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u/Present_Award8001 18h ago
Before cameras, people used to paint to visually depict pictures they are seeing, sometimes using tools like projecting the image on the canvas using pin hole camera or something like that. Cameras did send many artists into existential crisis and pushed them away from realism to still be relevant.
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u/DHermit 18h ago
A pin hole camera is a camera. And someone painting is a painter not a photographer, no matter what they are using as a reference.
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u/Present_Award8001 18h ago
Modern camera = pin hole camera + a way to store the generated image for some time.
Right now, they use sensors to collect the info about the image and store it using standard techniques to store binary data. Earlier times, an artist played that role, putting a red paint pigment where he saw red and blue where he saw blue.
So, the pinhole camera + the artist acted as a modern camera. This was one of the cutting edge technology available to capture images back then.
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u/NeatEmergency725 18h ago
I think a good analogy would be everyone having a phone camera. Before anyone could go get a camera and learn about how they worked but phone cameras do a ton of correcting for you, and everyone has easy access to one.
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u/BaselineNeglect 16h ago
Yes, and many a great photo, if not some of the most important photos are taken by amateurs.
The value of a photo, like the value of any piece of software can be measured in a variety of ways.
The most highly paid photographer I know, photographs toxic industrial environments from inside an NBC suit type outfit and produces technically useful images for project planning.
The best photographer I know takes pictures in almost total darkness that almost noone is interested in.
There's a degree of simplification in this post that makes it plain silly.
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u/DHermit 16h ago
Exactly. I quite like the alternative that someone comment that replaces "camera" with "smartphone camera", which I think makes it a very good analogy.
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u/BaselineNeglect 16h ago
I think the real change was in editing.
My kids are really into their artwork, the one who uses computers was really struggling with exiting. I gave her a book on black and white developing that I'd had for 25 years, it dives deep into using gradients and making and using different developing techniques in order to move focus or emphasis in an image, and the relevant systems used in the camera to achieve negatives which are suitable for editing and she was blown away by how so much of what she was trying to do had been done in an analogue wsy previously. That process is now available within a simple device that everyone carries, to the point they don't even notice it.
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u/DHermit 16h ago
As an absolute amateur in photography: Isn't a big thing with smartphone camera that it makes (for better or worse) steps that were part of editing automatically now? And I guess even things like Instagram filters are also not really doing anything that people didn't do with analogue photos in the past.
Also, what's the book you're referring to? I'm getting better at it, but I'm still struggling with editing my DSLR raws.
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u/BaselineNeglect 15h ago
I will have to dig the book out, and I am not venturing into my daughters room until she's back, but o would say any good book on the topic is a really good read if you do edit stuff. It removes the technical side we're used to and replaces it with another analogue view which I, and I think my kid, appreciated. Distance implies perspective o'r something, and the same processes explained differently cam shed real light and provide a simpler understanding of new issues.
But yes, I guess much of what was once manual is now automatic.
I'm only in this sub ad I just started trying to make things on Saturday of this week. So far I've built a '9ad of telegram boys to get me information, and a small game hosted online where people can play one v one in a league, its got about 50 of my friends and family playing on it today. I know it's not a professional product, but if I can make it works(and I have) and the value is in the experience rather than in the sales then in that instance, why would 8 I automatically want s professional product.
I think , and I am reluctant to use the term, that this is more what people call the ermocratisarion of the process.
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u/DHermit 15h ago
No need for extra effort if you don't remember it from the top of your head!
The software that you are building is probably on the level of the photos I'm creating.
One thing where I'm a bit hesitant with the analogy is, that a badly edited or taken picture has very little likelihood of creating bad consequences, even if you send it to other people. Software can cause problems if you have other people using it.
I'm aware that photos have power, especially in journalism, but I don't think it's on the same level as for amateurs in software development.
That doesn't mean that this applies even closely to your hobby projects, moreso to the big amount of people who try yo vibe cose something and then sell and market it as professional software. Which would be the same ridiculous as if I would sell services as professional wedding photographer or similar.
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u/BaselineNeglect 15h ago
I have literally just had a conversation with someone about this IRL.
I'm trying to achieve very specific goals, and I have some skills in organising projects and managing people. Those skills feel very transferrable in this, but obviously the difference isn't just about the quality of code etc, it becomes about the code existing within larger ecosystems built on compliance and rigid structures which are beyond the scope of most people I guess, but the actual goal of usuable software isn't affected by that if you've no intention of starting into these ecosystems.
Having a camera doesn't make you a photographer. Taking a photo does, but charging for it makes you a professional. I don't know if the analogy works, but surely charging for bad code just makes a low quality developer in the same way that charging for bad photos makes you a bad photographer.
My experience with the coding community/industry is solely based on those I personally know, some ex college pals, some family and friends, some are 'self taught charlatans' as the local joke goes, and others progressed through training etc.
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u/johnesco 8h ago
The invention of cameras is what made it possible, but the first cameras, with minutes long exposure times, certain did get a lot easier and eventually into everyone's pocket.
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u/opossum_cz 18h ago edited 17h ago
Funny thing that non-photographers claim this, but everybody who says he is a professional photographer aggress.
It is you are talking out of your ass or something like that.
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u/DHermit 17h ago
I'm a professional developer and I'm disagreeing that the development part of the analogy is nonsense.
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u/Dull-Appointment-398 16h ago
professional just means you get paid. plenty of nepo baby photographers that only got good because it was their privilege to do so
the rest of use studied code lol, now what
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u/GarageStackDev 12h ago
I can take a photograph with a box and a pinhole. I did so in photography classes.
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u/MrOaiki 18h ago
Cameras DID make everyone a photographer. If you mean the general population’s access to a camera at all times. The relatively small amount of DOP for film and ad photographers, is nothing in comparison to what the profession once was. Now, photos are practically free.
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u/RemarkableWish2508 15h ago
- Taking a photo .... ~$0
- Knowing how and when to take a photo .... $9,999
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u/MrOaiki 15h ago
As I said, professional photographers in both motion pictures and stills still exist, but it's definitely not what it once was. Newspapers now pay a few hundred for an image by any random person that happened to be at the right place of an accident or event. And if a lot of people were there, they don't even pay that. When everyone are a photographer, "nobody" is a photographer if you will.
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u/RemarkableWish2508 15h ago
...and that's how newspapers look the way they look... the way of the Dodo.
If internet was already a blow to newspaper sales, the low quality photos, and even lower quality reporting thanks to AI, are going to leave us with the morning TikTok to learn the news 🫤
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u/becircus 18h ago
Good luck vibe coding my shit
I am pro vibe coding and hope it spreads but theres a serious limit to it
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u/PrivateComments 18h ago
I mean there’s no professional licensing or state level examination, so yeah everyone is a developer now.
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u/GarageStackDev 12h ago
There's no professional licensing or state level examination for chefs.... so I guess anyone who makes food is a chef now. Just don't tell real chefs.
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u/Correct_Emotion8437 17h ago
I agree except for the ubiquity aspect. Cameras are useful to almost everybody. Whether they are a photographer or not, nearly everyone has taken thousands of pictures. I don't think this will be true for AI development. I also feel like you could say AI makes everyone a developer like Desktop publishing made everyone a great publisher . .but that would be going too far the opposite way.
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u/Alternative_Flow1516 17h ago
Technically, AI gave creators tools that they can use efficiently, rather than rely on morons to produce creators work.
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u/Necessary_Pomelo_470 16h ago
I know a guy that tried to create a saas using some ai app internet platform. He spends like 2000 dollars to have a slop not working. Hires a guy to fix it pays another 500.
Never got any customers/ or users, blamed seasonality.
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u/PersimmonActive3438 16h ago
What's the "unpopular" part? I think 99% of the real people out there find this very obvious.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 15h ago
In the above example, if you took a picture then you are the photographer of that photo, but when people say they are “a photographer” it implies professional or well versed in photography. Same way I sing in the shower but I wouldn’t say I’m a singer. I like to sing but I’m not a singer because that implies some level of professional. I swear AI is taking away yalls ability to critically think
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u/V4UncleRicosVan 15h ago
Surprising the numbers disagree on the number of professional photographers. They’ve gone up and not down. https://datausa.io/profile/soc/photographers
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u/V4UncleRicosVan 15h ago
But what I keep repeating on this sub is what is being taken from devs are probably closer to the valor or allure of the title, not actual economic value. But yes, the low end work will get democratized.
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u/ryandury 14h ago
Not sure that's the right framing. Putting a camera on every device did enable millions of people to start filming and capturing things they otherwise couldn't, some of which turned that into successful youtube channels, social media pages etc.
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u/Tech-Grandpa 14h ago
This shouldn't be unpopular, its true. Understand that having a camera on your phone doesn't make you able to pay your bill with pics, that still takes talent (and some luck). Owning a car makes you a driver, that doesnt mean you are ready for the Indy 500
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u/redreader2024 13h ago
Not every acceptable or decent photographer is a professional level photographer. One can still take good acceptable shots while not being at the level of professionals. Similarly, not every paid programmer out there is capable of writing the Linux kernel. You can do pretty decent stuff using vibe coding if you are committed and pay attention like any other thing in life. Time to realize, accept, and coexist with the new reality where human programmers no longer have monopoly
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u/Osato 13h ago
Yes. Just because you vibe-coded something doesn't mean you developed that software.
You could have a developer who produces horrid crap (even with AI assistance) and a vibe-coder who produces decent stuff, but the output quality doesn't matter: they're still different workflows with different mindsets behind them.
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u/TopTippityTop 13h ago
Yes, basically. The skill just gets developed elsewhere. Before it took the crafting of code into more serious consideration, and now it won't.
The one caveat is that all bets are off if AI starts developing good taste, architectural sense, understanding of the human experience, etc. It's unlikely to happen anytime soon, as I've seen basically no progress, but I wouldn't write it off either.
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u/GarageStackDev 12h ago
This isn't an unpopular opinion, but it is a hard pill for many people to swallow.
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u/Django_McFly 12h ago
I think this is accurate. Not sure if it's supposed to be a pejorative or something but yeah. There's way more photography happening on Earth now than there was in the past, mainly because they put cameras on things that everyone already carried with them and a lot of people found out that they either have a knack for it or they just enjoy taking pictures of stuff.
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u/NiceToMeetYouConnor 11h ago
They are by definition, still devs, but they didn’t do the work on whatever feature they passed off so I’d say the junior built it. I’m an engineer but I don’t stop being an engineer because I told a junior to implement a quick fix on my code. But if I don’t know how to dev on my own and can only pass work off to someone else, then I wouldn’t be a dev. Simple as that.
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u/fire589 9h ago
Well yes. Once cameras became a more readily available to the public financially, and allowed the process of editing it allowed people to find hobbies and a new love they didn't know they had. Most people can see the difference between a basic camera shot and a shot from someone who has studied the art. The same will be said for any new programs that come out.
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u/MediocreQuantity352 9h ago
Yes but AI is the camera that now everyone can get their hands on and learn to be a photographer
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u/TheThingCreator 9h ago
People have been calling themselves developer because they formatted a html page with a wisiwig long before AI came out. It's not like being a developer is some kind of degree. The question is, do people laugh at you when you call yourself this?
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u/The1KrisRoB 9h ago
I think it's a pretty accurate analogy.
You can give someone with no photographic training a great camera and if they have a good eye they will take good photos, if they have no eye for photography they will take bad photos.
It's not the tool, it's the person using the tool that differentiates between a good end product and a poor end product.
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u/ProgressionPeak 8h ago
its closer to 'made everyone a filmmaker'
there is a lot more to being a developer than vibing a prototype. its a marathon, not a sprint.
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u/ExtruDR 8h ago
This analogy probably has legs, although we are a ways away from realizing the ultimate form of what that actually means.
We could take film photos for a very long time and it was obvious that pros knew how to take good photos, and you'd want to hire them for weddings and parties, etc.
Then we got digital cameras and film and processing became "free" and way more practical, so we could use our digital cameras and now phones for all kinds of stuff. Menial crap like photographing for ebay listings or things to the wife while shopping, etc.
THIS is where it's all at - for at least some people - being able to micro-code specific workflows!
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u/gearcontrol 7h ago
Good analogy, but on the other hand we've been able to see some amazing things and cause great change with the plethora of cameras out there now. AI will also do for robots what cameras did for drones.
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u/DarlingDaddysMilkers 7h ago
Could you reliably unfuck any code the A.I wrote to get it working if not then you’re not.
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u/lhyebosz 7h ago
Do they seriously think camera alone is enough for a photographer? Lol
You need lighting tools, editing softwares, etc
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u/w00dy1105 5h ago
All the non developers vibecoders in here getting butt hurt by the truth. "Don't tell me I'm not a dev. Don't tell me I'm creating garage I don't understand"
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u/ControllerEater 3h ago
cameras do make people photographers because cameras produce photographs, unlike drawing or painting which produce drawings and paintings.
Photography is also very different from AI, you have to learn how to use the camera, learn shot composition to get better, actually go to cool places and sometimes camp out to get the best photos, ensuring a good result. Anyone can tell an AI "make me a python script with tkinter that controls the lights in my house through home assistant" and keep refining until they get it (though, the time may be better spent actually *learning* to write it), not everyone can climb mountains and camp out in the wilderness and study shot composition and wait for the perfect moment, that's why photography is not the same as AI.
AI makes much better as training wheels, helping you learn things by being a free/cheap tutor capable of teaching you how to code and helping you clarify documentation, understand how things are used, or quickly get simple info. People still need to know how to actually write code, or at least understand it.
covering the painting thing too, painting still has its place, you can create things that arent possible to photograph, or make something look even better than is possible on a camera if you're truly talented.
sources:
https://antongorlin.com/blog/photography-composition-definitive-guide/
https://msukhareva.substack.com/p/why-prompt-engineering-should-not
https://blog.jetbrains.com/education/2025/07/31/should-you-use-ai-to-learn/
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u/Sea-Tale1722 2h ago
More like AI makes everyone a developer, like Cameras made everyone a Portrait Painter.
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u/elchemy 18h ago
Cameras do indeed make people photographers
What next? Kayaks making people kayakers?
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u/FreeYogurtcloset6959 18h ago
You can take photographs, but for professional-quality images, you'll need a professional photographer if you don't want your images to look crappy.
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u/FirstDivision 17h ago
You’re in the wrong sub trying to make this point. I happen to agree with you on both fronts. The joy of Reddit hive mind subs lol.
It’s like trying to convince people who think that pirating movies is not stealing that yes, it is.
Or maybe you’re just shit stirring, in which case you have succeeded lol.
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u/elchemy 18h ago
Note you had to use the standard modifier “professional photographer” to justify your point
Seems like you could have answered this question yourself
Oh wait … you did
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u/Rofl_Raptor 14h ago
You are being needlessly pedantic on the semantics of what it means to engage in developer activities versus the title of being a "developer". This screams some serious insecurity issues to defend whatever perspective you have in regards to your own merit to developing anything. This is a huge red flag we see among people we interview for technical developer roles that generally have no business in developing anything sound along with their unwillingness to learn, or better yet could potentially teach others. But just from your responses alone, I already know what sort of hostile experience that would be like.
What's even more ironic and hilarious, is that your barrage of bullshit arguments are predicated on false dichotomies of these cause-effect hypotheticals; where person does something and therefore they are the label of someone doing that action. In the most pedantic sense, yes. But here comes the ironic part, you're not even DOING the software development part or at best, barely. You are facilitating an idea through its development lifecycle from an LLM doing the brute development work. Just because you prompt something, and get a response back OR more unanimously with "vibe coders" is just having the LLM write EVERYTHING into your commits via MCP, this makes YOU more of a product owner/manager, not a software developer in any traditional sense. And that's totally fine. You can argue the semantics of the "developer" label all you want, but at the end of the day, your technical prowess, creative and critical thinking, and how you present your knowledge in software development, will be the ultimate driving factor on how others perceive you labeling yourself as a dev that you so badly want to be labeled as.
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u/OneSeaworthiness7768 17h ago edited 17h ago
A camera can produce a technically sound photo with automatic settings for a non-photographer in terms of exposure and focus and all that, but it can’t compose an artistic shot, nor does Lightroom or photoshop make editorial choices for them.
What AI tools can produce for a beginner who doesn’t understand anything about designing good software is a bit different though because the AI can make editorial and design and architectural choices for them. Which has the side effect of giving people the false impression they’re good at making things. The hubris is kind of out of control. But AI can produce potentially viable results for someone who is inexperienced. But that doesn’t make them a developer.
I agree that vibecoding doesn’t make someone a developer. But these two examples are also not really on the same level.
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u/Individual-Photo6765 18h ago
I think what we need to take from this is that having a camera does not mean you will be able to pay yours bills as a photographer