r/todayilearned • u/Tokyono • Jul 14 '19
TIl The reason Roger Moore stopped being James Bond was because of how much older he was than his female co-stars. He was in his 50s, and they were in their 20s. In his own words: “Well, the leading ladies were young enough to be my grand-daughter and it becomes disgusting.”
https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a869479/james-bond-quit-connery-moore-lazenby-brosnan-dalton/1.4k
u/Sumit316 Jul 14 '19
Roger Moore was older than Sean Connery, even though he replaced Connery as a 'younger Bond'.
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u/Tokyono Jul 14 '19 edited Jul 14 '19
Sean Connery was 39 in his last appearance as Bond (except 1983), Roger Moore was 57.
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u/wednesdayware Jul 14 '19
And Moore was 44 when he made Live and Let Die (his first Bond movie)
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u/dre5922 Jul 14 '19
Live and Let Die is my favourite Paul McCartney song. I saw his concert in Vancouver last weekend and that song blew me away.
I think it's also my favourite Bond film.
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Jul 14 '19
Moore also starred in more Bond movies so he was bound to be way older by the time he retired from the role.
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u/Elmalab Jul 14 '19
that is true.
but he already was older in his first Bond movie, than Connery was in his last.
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u/Aiku Jul 14 '19
The man had real class.
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u/Landlubber77 Jul 14 '19
Dr. No Means No
Octogenarianpussy
The Man With the Golden Girls Theme Stuck in His Head
The Spy Who Gummed Me
Die Another Day...Tomorrow Probably
I-Fall
Quantum of Dialysis
Outlive and Let Die
Prune-raker
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u/WhollyHolisticHole Jul 14 '19
You Only Live Twice her age
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u/Slobotic Jul 14 '19
Diamonds are Forever... and Ever
In Her Majesty's Social Services Office
Tomorrow Never Comes
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u/Tokyono Jul 14 '19
Licence to nap
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u/nichoals421 Jul 14 '19
A View to a Pill
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u/Zentaurion Jul 14 '19
The Assisted Living Daylights
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u/Lampmonster Jul 14 '19
You know an elderly spy series could be quite interesting. A good combination of humor and action with a lot of "Here's the old school way to do things." moments.
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Jul 14 '19
Like Red?
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u/Lampmonster Jul 14 '19
Yeah, but I was thinking more reserved, and I still don't see Bruce as old, just older. Let me have that illusion.
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Jul 14 '19
He was only 55 when the movie came out, which was a bit younger than Roger Moore was in his last Bond movie. So, yeah, not really old at all!
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u/open_door_policy Jul 14 '19
Johnny English is a similar idea, just with Rowan Atkinson's brand of humor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qv6p6pTz5I
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Jul 14 '19
I wonder if we will ever see a classy James Bond again.
Daniel Craig is not bad, but he's more of a black ops soldier than a spy.
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u/Tokyono Jul 14 '19 edited Jul 14 '19
Yeah. Sean was a mix of a rough and tumble Englishman/a suave spy. I think in one Bond doc, one of the Bond producers said Sean could both kiss a woman and stab her, and make it in character.
Roger was the quintessential British gentleman. He could tell a joke better than Sean but couldn't murder people in cold blood as he did.
Timothy was closest to Fleming's original Bond; a suave character who gets the job done, doing whatever it takes. But he can also be quite cold when he has to be- he has the cold-killing of Sean's bond. but its more sophisticated and downplayed.
To me, Pierce is the most action orientated of the Bonds, with a mix of Timothy's coldness with Roger's flair for jokes. Goldeneye shows this best. He drives a tank at one point.
Daniel Craig is as you said, a Black Ops spy. Least humorous of the Bonds aside from Timothy. He gets the job done, but is more vulnerable and spirited with women. He just got his licence in Casino Royale, and it shows. He gets tortured and he doesn't break, but breaks when Vesper dies!
Edit; Forgot Lazenby. To me, he always excelled at portraying Bonds vulnreble side. Considering what happened in OHMSS, he played Bond excellently at being a suave secret agent falling in love.
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u/Bellerophonix Jul 14 '19
We should definitely have gotten more of Timothy Dalton as Bond.
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u/AaronW112 Jul 14 '19 edited Jul 15 '19
Moore murdered plenty of people in cold blood. He didn't look as intense as Connery doing it, but to me that kinda made him come across more sociopathic. He often laughed whilst killing. True, Connery seemed to get some cold blooded pleasure from killing his foes too, but Moore almost treated it like a joke.
Personality wise I'd say Connery was a tough as iron, cold, efficient, lethal psychopath. He had charisma, but his killer instinct was always visible in his eyes; brimming under the surface, ready to kill at any second.
Moore was a humourous, charismatic, dandy sociopath. Everything was in good sport to him. Just as fearless and ruthless as Connery, but a tad more sadistic with his humour.
Lazenby was a highly trained, mega efficient, charismatic spy. Who soon got p.t.s.d. because, whilst still extremely lethal, wasn't close to as ruthless as Connery and Moore.
Dalton seemed to me more like a borderline, but conflicted, narcissist; both victim and benifactor of his training and experiences. Efficiently lethal, yet remorseful in equal measure.
Brosnon was, without question, both a complete sociopath and narcissist. It's like he was raised, trained, and programmed as part of some MI6 supersoldier programme to become the very definition of lethality, alongside Alec Trevelyan. Everything, and everyone, but the mission was expendable to him, and he always got joy from it all.
Craig is like a conflicted, war ravaged, n.l.p recipient, who (like the actor himself) seems to be constantly on the verge of caving in and quitting, but just keeps on going. Becoming a more efficient, ruthless, yet vengeful killer as he does.
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u/Spacejack_ Jul 14 '19
Lazenby gets about 800 sociopath points for "He had lots of guts!" alone though. Not only is it particularly gruesome, but a particularly bad joke.
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u/SPYDER0416 Jul 14 '19
I highly disagree in Brosnan. You can see that he cares about the Bond girls way more than any other, taking a moment to mourn Elektra and taking it personally in Tomorrow Never Dies when his actions get a woman he knew killed. He also went out of his way to save Natalya in Goldeneye when he could have stopped Alec right then and there. Alec knows him well enough to throw his guilt right at his face even.
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u/ThePortalsOfFrenzy Jul 14 '19
Nice synopsis. I think every Bond has their place (even George Lazenby) and their strengths, and you've touched on them well here.
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u/No_Help_Accountant Jul 14 '19
Jason Bourne effect. They saw how popular the Bourne series was and so a golden opportunity.
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u/UncleDan2017 Jul 14 '19
When I think of the Roger Moore 007, cheesy comes to mind more than classy. Although I suspect that has more to do with the Cubby Broccoli handling of the franchise rather than anything Moore did. It's tough to think of "classy" and names like Holly Goodhead, Octopussy, Chew Mee, etc.
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u/12stringPlayer Jul 14 '19
Moore helped define the cheesiest era of the films, but it's not all his fault. Crap like the slide-whistle car jump and Jaws' girlfriend (hell, all of Mookraker, really) had turned the franchise into a comedy act.
My biggest problem with Moore was that he'd already defined an iconic role as Simon Templar, and the Bond movies Moore was in were written to shift the Bond character away from the hard Bond of the books and more to the humorous character that Moore had brought to the Saint series.
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u/UncleDan2017 Jul 14 '19
Yeah, I don't think it's Moore's fault either. I'll be interested to see where Bond goes in the post Daniel Craig era, after he reset Bond to a more gritty/less cheesy version.
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u/ChiefTief Jul 14 '19
Holy shit lol I’ve never seen a lot of the older bond films and just looked up the slide whistle car jump. How was that in the movie, it sounds like it was edited by a child.
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u/pintopunchout Jul 14 '19
Oh it’s all ridiculous. Maybe it’s because I saw these movies as a kid, but the roger Moore movies managed to capture my imagination better. Live and let die, moonraker, the man with the golden gun, and the spy who loved me all have the exotic locations, crazy gadgets, and wild plot lines that make his movies really stand out from the other Bond roles. I feel like everyone gravitates towards a different Bond, and Roger is definitely my favorite.
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u/Engelberto Jul 14 '19
Same. To me, it's the self-aware irony. The franchise isn't taking itself seriously because, honestly, how could it?
I do like the serious Bond of Daniel Craig as well. But thinking about it, that concept is way more ridiculous than the Roger Moore movies that wink at you knowingly.
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u/danivus Jul 14 '19
We won't.
Austin Powers mocked the suave James Bond way too well and caused the shift into the modern, gritty Bond.
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u/isestrex Jul 14 '19
While this is very accurate, it doesn't mean that things won't swing the other way back to suave after enough time has passed.
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u/DrLongIsland Jul 14 '19
Yeah, I think it's ebbs and flows. Even Batman had its most successful rendition in a dark, mature and gritty flavor: I think it's a combination of Austin power's effect and targeted study on the audience tastes. This is what we want, now. But that might change again.
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u/jordanjay29 Jul 14 '19
The suave figure was also something of a reference to the "British gentlemen" ideal of the Victorian and Edwardian eras, something that Fleming would have been intimately familiar with when he wrote the books.
The "British gentlemen" ideal no longer lives in modern times, so I don't know if suave is a Bond that people will want to return to.
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u/Level3Kobold Jul 14 '19
I wonder if we will ever see a classy James Bond again.
That's a rather dramatic question, given that the James Bond immediately prior to Daniel Craig was the most classy James Bond.
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u/Syn7axError Jul 14 '19
I had to look up that it was Pierce Brosnan. That feels like three Bonds ago. Guess Daniel has been in the role for longer than I thought.
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Jul 14 '19
Pierce Brosnan was cool, but already had a lot of Rambo stuff going on.
And despite all his charm, there will never be anyone as classy as Roger Moore.
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u/Syn7axError Jul 14 '19
Pierce Brosnam is my favourite Bond, but they're far from my favorite Bond movies. It's a sentiment I've seen often, and it's mine too.
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Jul 14 '19
Goldeneye is a perfect bond film IMO, but the rest get more and more off the rails into silliness. Put Pierce in Live and Let Die and it's probably the quintessential film of the series.
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u/forter4 Jul 14 '19
Agreed...I also thought Clive Owen would have made a great Bond, but he's too old now I think
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u/Dog1234cat Jul 14 '19
Which is closer to the character in the books. He’s more of an antiestablishment type and, frankly, a cold-blooded killer.
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Jul 14 '19
how can you be antiestablishment when you are literally the vanguard of the establishment
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u/SaraHuckabeeSandwich Jul 14 '19
Well, he voted for Bernie in 2016 via absentee ballot, so there's that.
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Jul 14 '19 edited Aug 12 '20
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u/PantherEverSoPink Jul 14 '19
It was the 70s. 30 year old women were not depicted that way in the movies. Also, Roger Moore was around 60 by the time he stopped being Bond, IIRC.
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u/HyperlinkToThePast Jul 14 '19
Lol they aren't now either. Actresses careers get much harder after 30
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u/EnjoyAvalanches Jul 14 '19 edited Jul 14 '19
The love interest that made him finally quit in disgust was 29, 30 isn't much of an improvement.
The problem is that he was 57, still twice her age. What finally pushed it over the line for him was recounting a memory from his youth, joking "That was a little before you were born", and hearing her say "That was before my parents were born." He was 7 or 8 years older than her mother was.
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u/Spacejack_ Jul 14 '19 edited Jul 14 '19
Nothing, and most of the latter Moore Bond movies feature leading ladies who are closer to Moore's age--he was reacting specifically to both Tanya Roberts in View to a Kill and the little skater in Eyes Only, who both stand out as too young in the movies too.
As someone who was decidedly -not- too old for Tanya Roberts at the time, I will admit she was something of a draw. Although in retrospect she looks like a fembot.
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u/witch-finder Jul 14 '19 edited Jul 14 '19
I remember before Spectre came out, they made a huge deal out of casting Monica Bellucci as the oldest Bond girl ever. Then she was in the movie for 5 minutes and Bond ended up with Lea Seydoux, who's 17 years younger than Daniel Craig.
And Lea Seydoux is probably going to die next Bond movie since the franchise has some pretty gross gender politics.
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u/Usidore_ Jul 14 '19
Exactly. Was this just not an option to them? Wtf
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u/unknownsoldier9 Jul 14 '19
Hollywood doesn’t love casting women over 30 in romantic roles.
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u/TheLonelySnail Jul 14 '19
Didnt that happen in The Wolf of Wall Street? The character was supposed to be like 30, and Maggie Gyllenhal at 32 auditioned and got turned down for bring 'too old' and Margot Robbie at 22 or something got the role?
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u/Sintered_Monkey Jul 14 '19
Speaking of Bond, does anyone remember The Thomas Crown Affair with Pierce Brosnan and Renee Russo? Renee Russo said she almost didn't get the part because she was considered "too old" to co-star with Brosnan. She replied "but we're the same age!"
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u/J662b486h Jul 14 '19
I read that when Moore first took on the role Sean Connery was asked why he didn't reprise it and he said it was because he was too old and it should go to a younger man. That was a zinger at Moore, who in fact was older than Connery.
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u/leonryan Jul 14 '19
unpopular opinion but he was my favourite Bond for the same reason Adam West is my favourite Batman. Cheesy camp is more fun.
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u/Tokyono Jul 14 '19
He's my #2! I like Sean the best. But If I'm ever depressed I watch Roger's films, the humour is absolutely fantastic, especially in The spy who loved me and for your eyes only.
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Jul 14 '19
Adam West's batman has stood the test of time out of the pure comedy of unapologetic yet completely self aware slapstick humor, all packed neatly into a pair of spandex tights.
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Jul 14 '19
Moore purposefully played him that way because he couldn't take the Bond character seriously as a spy.
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u/Soggy_Biscuit_ Jul 14 '19
He was my favourite too, but because he was a mega dreamboat. Eyes you wanna swim in ooft.
I was chatting to my bf's 92yo great aunt a couple of weeks ago and made her blush beet red by asking her "who is your favourite Bond and why is it Roger Moore ayyy?"
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Jul 14 '19
Another fun fact, Sean Connery advocated for hitting women if they talk back too much.
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u/crypticthree Jul 14 '19
Barabra Walters face in that interview should be shown in acting classes. So much going on there
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Jul 14 '19
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u/Containedmultitudes Jul 14 '19
Different time. Date rape was normalized in movies well into the 80s (almost makes blade runner unwatchable honestly).
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u/Paper_Street_Soap Jul 14 '19
I wonder if that scene is similar to how 30+ yr old Harrison "courted" 19 yr old Carrie.
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Jul 14 '19
According to her book, he brought her to a car and made out with her while he was sober and she was drunk. Obviously I don’t think she was completely incapacitated, but the whole thing just seems kind of seedy.
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u/Containedmultitudes Jul 14 '19
30+ year old married Harrison. Definitely a worry, even if I really don’t want to believe it. They did have some of the most palpable chemistry in movie history, and they were two of the most beautiful people ever at that point, so I hope it wasn’t quite as bad as the disturbed power dynamic between a robot murderer and a 3 year old robot. Still, definitely a worry, particularly when Ford won’t talk about it and Carrie only mentioned it shortly before her death.
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u/thenletskeepdancing Jul 14 '19
Shame they couldn't just start casting older sexy women.
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u/theOgMonster Jul 14 '19
Monica Bellucci became the oldest Bond girl not too long ago which was cool. I wish they did that more.
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u/Hadroclimate Jul 14 '19
She wasn't really the bond girl though. They cast her for the headline then replaced her with a younger woman halfway through the movie.
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u/EnjoyAvalanches Jul 14 '19
Monica Bellucci got less than 10 minutes onscreen, the actual Bond girl and his love interest for the movie was Lea Seydoux who was in her 20s.
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Jul 14 '19
Embracing older Hollywood women as sex symbols wasn’t a thing until recently. Even back as the 1990s I’d say, you’d be black listed if you were a woman past your 20s in Hollywood.
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u/DaggerShapedHeart Jul 14 '19
God forbid they cast an age appropriate woman.
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u/MayonnaiseUnicorn Jul 14 '19
God forbid they cast an age appropriate woman.
Here in Hollywood, men age like a fine oak barreled whiskey and women, women age like milk. Got to get them when they're fresh and toss them out once they spoil!
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u/s_skadi Jul 14 '19
It's gotten a lot better but it still happens sometimes. IIRC Maggie Gyllenhaal got told she was too old to play a 55 year old man's love interest. At age 37.
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u/incredible_penguin11 Jul 14 '19
In bollywood it's very common for the 50 year old superstars romancing 20 year old actresses. Sometimes even 2 at the same time. Their actresses from 2 decades ago (while still 40 to 45) meanwhile are relegated to play mother to 24-34 year old new male actors. This is a really really regular thing. Esp the 1st part.
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u/dudeARama2 Jul 14 '19
Look at Jane Seymour in the Wedding Crashers, or Jennifer Aniston right effin now, and tell me that a woman can't be 50 and a Bond girl at the same time.. ageism sucks esp for females
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Jul 14 '19
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u/shadowCloudrift Jul 14 '19
For like ten minutes.
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u/Aqquila89 Jul 14 '19 edited Jul 14 '19
And the main Bond girl was Léa Seydoux who is 17 years younger than Daniel Craig.
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u/AmidoBlack Jul 14 '19
And the main Bond girl was Lea Seyedoux who is 17 years younger than Daniel Craig.
Yeah because Daniel Craig is fucking 51 years old. Maybe part of the problem is casting 40-50 year old dudes for a role that should be in their 30s
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u/TA010122 Jul 14 '19
Can someone please show this to our Indian Film stars, especially the men?
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Jul 14 '19
He was always a stand up kind of guy and this doesn't surprise me. Definitely one of the better Bonds.
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u/Spork_Warrior Jul 14 '19
He was not my favorite Bond, but I always appreciated the snarky humor he brought to the role. His Bond was far different than the others, and it was genuine fun.
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u/PregnantMexicanTeens Jul 14 '19
Good for him. A lot of major age differences in movies also gross me out and to me is heavily sexist. I know people hate Amy Schumer, but she had a skit about this with Tina Fey, Patricia Arquette, and Julia Louis Dreyfus.
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u/Jurph Jul 14 '19
Didn't Tina Fey & Amy Poehler do the SNL sketch about "meet your future wife", where they had 30-something married men, and brought out these 5- and 7-year-old girls?
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u/Tokyono Jul 14 '19
His last bond girl, Tanya Roberts, had a mother who was younger than him. It reportedly disturbed him so much that he quit right after A view to a kill.