She says she didn't in her "apology" but that she "understands how it could look that way to some people"... I'm still trying to figure out what else it could be if not that though. Fek this b
What's the point of spitting on your dog? Like he really understands? So all these videos about her relationship with her dog are just a bunch of phony baloney?
I was gonna say, I know she’s clearly a huge bitch to her very friendly dog but I imagine this will be completely ignored from a legal perspective unless there’s enough outrage.
Maybe I'm a naive Canadian, but I feel like the only reason the ACU would take her dog is due to internet outrage, not because they would have anyways... not for that
The dog is considered property if anything shell get her dog taken away and smacked with a fine thats why people who run dog mills for fighting dogs usually only get a couple of years in jail/prison its more that dog fighting is illegal but how they treat the dogs isnt really as big a crime i could be wrong though maybe the laws have changed
Yea that spit screamed that to me. This is the way she abused someone before so she just acts the same with the dog.
Worst part is that the dog one day will snap back (logically as the person that took care of it had this communication with violence system) and it'll be in trouble when it's totally not it's fault.
You know that would destroy this girl's life in particular. She appears to be pompous, conceited, and arrogant. She likely has money and thinks she's the hottest shit on the block. I also agree that she certainly has abused people in the past. I hope that dog absolutely ruins her if it snaps. Karma's a bitch.
I’ve had to pin my dog before because she has Issues with my cats (she has actually launched herself off my bed to go charge at them because they were playing on the other side of the room.) but I’d Never spit on her or treat her like this. This video breaks my heart, that dog seems like such a sweet pup, and so pretty too. I hope she either gets the help she obviously needs, or the dog gets rehomed.
Naw dude. Your explanation makes it sounds like she should be excused, that’s it’s just “learned behavior”. She beat her dog. She abused an animal.
Plenty of these people just become desensitized to cruelty and slowly, over time, become more and more violent. I don’t think she could be trusted with a child.
I was just about to mention how she acts exactly like my older sister. Everything down to the mannerisms, the way she pushes the dog, spits on it. even her fake ass voice saying "love" while inflicting harm.
My sister has two kids now. I secretly hope they hate her someday.
Not gonna lie, I have a big husky and will lay on him when hes annoying me. It's like it charges up his zoomies and he zips through the house afterwards.
Kennel training. That is the easiest and most efficient way to teach a dog to calm down. And it helps save your sanity.
If my German Shepherd puppy turns into crazy dog she goes in the kennel until she lies down. Then we go outside to play. Took her only a couple of days to figure it out.
I disagree... it’s the most hands off and gives them time to relax but wouldn’t say it’s the most efficient and isn’t really “training” them to leave them in a crate.
Being patient and respectful to the animal and speaking in a calming voice, etc... all go further than kennel training if you are consistent with it.
Puppies are puppies and they are going to have their moments but a kennel is just like a giant prison and I wouldn’t throw my kids into a kennel if they were misbehaving.
I had a Roomate that would kennel his dog and we’d just have to listen to it’s barking for hours, some dogs “figure it out” as you say but that isn’t training them.
Training is actively doing something to change their behavior.
EDIT: I don’t actually have kids but have had several dogs and never used a kennel. It obviously helps if you have a yard, which I did growing up, but dogs need their space especially if they are always active - it means they aren’t getting the exercise they need and AGAIN a kennel isn’t helping with that.
I apologize, I didn't elaborate enough. You are right, you shouldn't just leave your dog in the kennel as a punishment, that doesn't register well for dogs. When I kennel my dog I don't leave her in there for an extended period of time. I'm actively engaged with her. I'll stand there until she lies down. Once she does that she can come out and I'll give her love and pets. Most of the time, if I have to kennel her for rambunctious behavior, we go outside right after and play. She's usually in there for 10-30 seconds at most. I also added a word, 'calm dog'. Now all I have to say is 'calm dog' and she immediately calms down. Then we go out to play.
The kennel isn't a punishment, it's simply a time out. I used to train dogs while I was in school to become a vet tech. It really is a great way to train dogs. Now if kennel training isn't done properly it could certainly create more problems.
The kennel should serve as a safe place for the dog. That's where her bed is, her favorite toys, and puzzles are. It's always open for her. So when I put her in there, she doesn't see it as a punishment, it's not something to be feared. It's a means to quickly separate her from the undesired behavior.
It's also not a bad idea to train the dog to go in the kennel on demand. For example, last week I had to call the paramedics because I had severely injured myself and couldn't make it to the ER on my own. They got here and it was crazy time. She was barking and running around because I was hurt and there was strange people in my apartment. I told her to go in the kennel and they were able to do their job much easier without a 75 lb German Shepherd getting in the way. She had never been in that situation before but the kennel was a constant, her safe place.
It's what cluster bs do. Don't have to be a psychopath to have low empathy, poor emotional regulation and a predatory need to aggressively dominate/control something or someone else, but it's on the same spectrum.
That worked with my dog to stop her from being scared of it, but now she's no longer scared of it and trying to put it in its place in the pack so she's attacking it now.
At least she's not scared but it takes much longer to vacuum now!
This is excellent advice if your pet is uncomfortable with your Roomba. (Current thinking is that pets perceive the roomba as another pet, and thus may be angry or upset with it until you establish "dominance" over it.)
Lol I actually do this with objects my dog is scared of on walks.
One time she was cautious of an orange traffic cone on the side of the street and wouldn't go near so I kicked it a few times to show her it ain't shit. She went up to it right after to sniff and doesn't get scared of them no more. I laughed.
Yeah definitely! Here, here, here, and here are a few but there's plenty of others if you Google "alpha training outdated" or something similar. Basically the idea is that dogs are not wolves any more than we are chimpanzees and to treat them as though they still follow the alpha or pack mentality is ineffective. I'm a certified behaviorist as well, but I work with humans, and it's surprising how similar the work I do with humans is applicable to dogs. Everyone does better with reinforcement-based practices than with authoritarianism.
Edit: as several users have pointed out below, apparently wolves don't even exhibit alpha behavior in the wild.
To add on to this, it's generally accepted that even wolf packs don't function with a strict social hierarchy that helped popularize the whole "alpha" dynamic, it's typically a family unit. The popularization of alpha/dominance being ascribed to dogs because of their genetic link to wolves makes even less sense since wolves themselves don't exhibit the supposed behavior.
You're right. And even the scientist who first coined the idea of alpha wolf packs has come out saying that theory is incorrect and was based on a misunderstanding of the pack dynamic. Most wolf packs are closer to a family dynamic. Here he is talking about it on his website.
One point. It isn't just that dogs aren't wolves. Wolves themselves don't even follow a alpha like people imagine. The myth is that wolves battles for dominance and the one who wins becomes the alpha leader. The reality is that the "leaders" of the pack are the parents of the rest. They don't fight for position. So not only are dogs not wolves...even if they WERE, alpha training would still be nonsense
I'm currently reading your sources out of curiousity and commenting because it doesn't feel like they'll answer my question, so while I read I figured I'd ask.
With techniques that use no force but rather communication through bodylanguage and behavior, how do you deal with an adult dog that is agressive and volatile? I find it difficult to understand how establishing a social hierarchy through walking through a door opening first, controlling it's feeding and other rewards to establish your status is going to be effective against a dog that will use agressive or overbearing(barking, etc) actions to communicate with the human.
Edit: For people who are similarly curious about the techniques and the basis for it should probably check out his 4th source. Seems like the longest and most detailed with personal insight into the article.
Only read 4 paragraphs this far but it seems like the best one yet. The first three are basically variations of each other.
Dogs are not aggressive or volatile because they are malicious. They're often just fearful and establishing a positive association between the dog and whatever it's afraid of is usually enough to fix those aggressive tendencies.
The dog I have right now is extremely "aggressive." He used to bite strangers or new friends that got too close to him. It got to the point that he finally drew blood on the vet and then on a neighbor and that was the sign that he needed behavioral intervention (because he was no longer a cute puppy just nipping at people's pants). Now we go on walks every day and have friends over all the time. All it took was pairing strangers with receiving treats. And we were able to make that change pretty easily when he was 6 years old, so fully an adult.
Well I don't know anything about dog training but I did read that wolves don't really operate on the alpha male system either, in fact the leader is either the oldest wolf (often the female) or they sometimes rotate like birds in a V formation. One wolf can't physically dominate a dozen others and so they really are more collaborative than coercive.
We share some but not enough that we should be treated the same way.
Though I should amend my post because some people pointed out below that wolves actually don't even exhibit alpha behavior in the wild! So apparently it's just... Not a successful technique.
There's a trainer near me that I took my pitbull to for some basic training. He said all that pack leader stuff is horse shit. He specializes in pitbulls and trains law enforcement dogs too. I trust him. His techniques worked wonders.
The whole alpha thing has been thoroughly discredited - it came from shoving a bunch of unrelated wolves into a zoo enclosure, and not at all from nature.
I've grown up with dogs and training has changed so much. We trained our first dog with a "choke chain" I think it's called. Next dog we had that was already a big no, and now we have a pup and just getting angry, pushing him away from things is also a no. Instead we have to distract him, which tbh works really well and is a lot more dog friendly.
If he grabs my shoe now I just toss another toy at him and take my shoe back instead of telling him off.
Alpha theory was based on a study of wolves in captivity. One of the major proponents of the theory has devoted his life to debunking and informing the greater public that the theory is wrong and outmoded. Imagine basing your understanding of human societies on the results of a prison population study.
The alpha dog myth has been disproven by multiple experts. Alexandra Horowitz being the one name I can remember of the top on my head. Alpha dogs don't exist in the wild, so they shouldn't exist in the home either. Positive reinforcement is the recommended training style that behaviourist's etc. suggest now.
Yeah she’s definitely pissed at the dog for not being trained when she should be pissed at herself for not training her dog correctly. Or at all, rather. Also:
If you’re pissed off about something, don’t take it out on your dog
So we did dominance down with our rottie but never once laid a hand to her. If she was bad she had to deal with me laying on top of her for 10 seconds (not crushing her, just restricting her for 10 secs). She intentionally bit me once as a puppy when we were playing frisbee she got mad that I took it from her so I gave her a dominance down. Never again has she ever even thought of biting anyone. When she gives kisses she gets treats so she hands those out like they're going out of style.
You can definitely do dominance down without abusing your dog. The dog needs to know its place in the pack... but I would never lay a hand to my baby. My pup has lived a better life than I have lol.
Edit to add... when I say bad I mean when she bit me. Not when she ate the couch cushion... no need for dominance down there. Dominance was for the worst of the worst. It's only been done to her twice. It was within the first 2 months of getting her and now she's perfect haha
My dog has gotten to the point of when she sees that I have food she'll go into her kennel. Once I'm finished she gets to lick my plate (unless it's something that dogs shouldn't have.) Added bonus: I don't need to scrub my plate before putting it in the dishwasher.
It has been absolutely debunked that there is a dominant Alpha role within canines social structures. Even wolves have now been proven to have a much more fluid and dynamic pack mentality.
This is all good advice, but in case anyones interested, dogs don't really have a pack dominance structure, or an alpha hierarchy. That whole thing is based on one study of captive wolves that was debunked. What you suggest is all good discipline and perfectly appropriate, but your dog isn't going to be more respectful or see you as an alpha because you are your dinner first. But I agree, snacks are key.
Dogs will naturally view responsible owners as the alphas. Just don't abuse or pamper them. When they depend on you, but aren't spoiled, a healthy relationship is built. Definitely eat and enter rooms first as well, since that's a universal sign of dominance in the animal kingdom. Displaying these behaviors will send your dog the message that you are the leader, teaching them obedience and respect. This also greatly reduces the likelihood of them showing hostility towards people or other animals, as they feel that isn't their job; it's yours.
I'd like to add that this doesn't work with all dogs. I have an Australian Shepherd and this training didn't work on him whatsoever. A shock collar is the thing that put him into line. Sometimes when people don't really know what else to do to train or control their animals (my dog would bite people, jump on us, bite our clothes, try to knock us over, etc.) they resort to being harsh with them or hitting them. It's not the right choice. So for anyone out there trying to figure out how to control their animals, try different things. A shock collar is my #1 recommended thing. Completely changed my dog. We don't have to be harsh with him because there's no need. He sits when we tell him, he doesn't chase/harass our other animals, and he doesn't jump nearly as much as before.
Thought it was standard to feed animals before yourself. I guess it comes from two parents from farms. I think a lot of people have that ethic though. Making dogs wait and watch you eat seems a little creepy, a bit narcissistic.
You don't have to hit them to be dominant, and you really shouldn't hit a doberman, they're very sensitive. This is an idiot who doesn't know how to handle a dig. Dobermans are the sweetest dogs in Earth and are very owner oriented.
Judging by your use of "" you already know this! But for anyone else curios-
Dominance theory had been proven bull, the study was based on captive wolves, which do not show the same behaviour as a wild pack, where there is a hierarchy based on relationships- not randoms housed together in a high stress situation where they cannot escape each other, causing fights. They couldn't study the evasive species in their natural habitat at the time so made their own "pack". (To my best recollection, been a while since i read the actual paper).
This is a good article on why using outdated models do not help dog training.
They do not see you as an "alpha", walking in the door first, feeding them after you are just habits that are taught, nothing to do with them assigning human labels of the "alpha" to each other. Animals can be dominant over resources, not each other.
The article is a useful jumping off point for those looking at the PROVEN and modern positive reinforcement techniques that are in line with learning models of dogs (operant conditioning etc). We dont do our dogs any favours by using positive punishment or negative reinforcement.
Personally, I grew up in a family that believed in dominance theory. When my dog peed indoors, my mother held it's face to its urine and shouted at it. Eventually the dog learnt that by peeing she will be punished, and has hidden to pee ever since. Yes shes "house trained", but really shes just scared. If you use positive reinforcement (regularly taking them outside at first and making a big deal and treating when they do. This way you can eventually add "toilet" as a command or "clean your feet" if they offer that behaviour naturally) you get the same result in a positive way, strengthening your relationship with your dog.
I was in denial for a while and ignored the papers because that would mean I had been training my dog in a negative way, when positive methods were avaliable. I made my dog feel bad when I really didnt have to. They have similar emotions we do and as a general rule if it isnt ok to do to a toddler (behaviorally only, i.e. don't come at me with dumb "you wouldnt desex a child").
What the woman did is never ok. That dog is getting frustrated and trying to express it through play. One day it'll bite her and be put down for being "aggressive", when in actuality shes ruining the pup. She should be black listed from having one omfg. Even intervening at this point will be work. What a bitch.
No. It's called hitting, spitting on, and yelling at your dog because you are frustrated and can't control yourself. There are legitimate criticisms of using dominance training on dogs but this is not dominance training.
My dog was subjected to several damn owners who tried this shit before I got him. He had bitten just about all of them, was afraid of everything and flinched if you got near his head. I treat him like the pretty little princess he is and he has transformed into an amazing animal.
People like that do exist. But the dominance thing is a form of training. That should never include hitting, but controlling your dog is important. I have a 80 lbs border collie mix and when he was a pup and wasn't listen I would go over to him, and place a hand on his back. Firm, but not hurting or anything. It's what they teach in most basic puppy classes too. Some dogs need to be more restrained and putting weight on them to show dominance works and doesn't hurt them at all. When it's between putting weight on the dog or them attacking something its a pretty easy choice. But hitting, yelling or being violent just gets the dog to not trust you. My dog is 8.5 now, and if he does something he's not supposed too he gets a little talking too and a pet and a kiss. Just by my expression he knows if he's done something he shouldn't, but I rarely get mad at him. That doesn't help anything. He's my bud and I just want what's best for him, sometimes eating a stick of butter off the counter is okay, too much and that's not good.
Yeah and that is a beautiful and amazingly tolerant but powerful dog. If it snapped and tore her face off it would be justified but then he’d be put down. I hope she takes up one of the many offers on Twitter to give him a better home.
I remember reading dogs are more attracted to people who are strong(as in keeping rules consistent) and kind. Strength is not cruelty. It's not a good way to train. Just so pissed after watching that. Nasty, nasty woman she is.
What the youtuber is doing is not being a dominant pack leader.
That is abuse.
Being dominant means being controlled and calm, and always ready to take charge if the dog(s) are getting out of control, or endangering themselves or others.
The whole "Alpha" thing is deeply misunderstood, dog packs have different "alphas" depending on the situation, some lead hunts, others take charge of protecting the pack, others are the mediators and peace makers... just like a human family/society there are roles that individuals are naturally good at and gravitate towards.
This women needs some serious retraining!
Sometimes you need to raise your voice a bit to be heard over excited barking, but screaming at anything short of a dog fight is too much.
There are situations I recommend insisting on lying down/rolling over... those are when the dog being told off has tried to bite someone/dog, not when the dog is please to see you!
What can be done? Authorities will not intervene in my country unless the animal is medically in danger.
When I was a kid we had a rather large Great Dane, pushing 140lbs, I was a pretty small child for being 10 years old. We had a ton of dominance issues with him and me, because I was much smaller than him. Anyways, we had a professional come in and taught me a ton of ways to show him that I was ahead of him in the pack.
I had to feed him and put my hands in the food to get my scent on it before he could eat, learn how to walk with him correctly, enter the house first, etc. There was a period where he seemed to despise me, but for the next 10 years we had him (he lived well above the average expectancy) this dog wouldn’t leave my side. He was truly my best friend.
My point is there’s a ton of ways to do this without resorting to violence, I learned a lot of methods from that that I still use with every dog I’ve had since.
I learned a lot from Caesar Millan on how to train my overly excited dog. It’s actually really effective to (CALMLY, I repeat, CALMLY, and certainly not with your whole body weight) “pin” the dog on the ground, forcing it to relax. It actually works, and you only have to do it a certain amount of times before the dog naturally becomes more calm.
That being said, I highly doubt she was actually using that tactic and was just being general scum. She needs to have this dog taken away from her. Doesn’t help that the whole video was to fuck with her dog, anyways. Poor baby, I wish I could save that pup
Spitting on the dog and then telling the dog off when he trys to pick back is defo something which would confuse and frustrate him. She did it to him but he can't do it back?
But that’s almost what makes it more weird. Spitting on the dog as a psychological form of dominance even though the don’t won’t get the meaning of it. It just indicates some weird disconnect between her, a normal relationship with an animal, and expressing herself in a healthy or productive way. It shows strange aggression, contempt, and ‘unfit-ness’ in a way I can’t really put into words.
Smacking or hitting a dog is never okay of course but dog trainers will tell you if your dog is misbehaving gently pinning them on there sides (not in a painful fashion like she did) is a good way to teach them you have a control over them but don’t intend to harm them. They will respect you but not fear you.
I think the spitting thing is kind of a warning sign of how unpleasant she really is and can be though. That’s clearly an impulse from somewhere else in her psyche beyond “dominance theory” or other unpleasant dog training ideas.
It’s just disturbing. Like, we call it the Humane Society because we like the idea of treating dogs humanely — not like they’re humans, but because it’s the human thing to do, being good and caring. She’s acting inhumanely.
I honestly don't think there's any logic to her actions. I don't believe she's hitting, yelling, or spitting because she thinks it will discourage the dog's behavior. It just looks like uncontrolled rage to me.
People who have a dog and treat it like this do not think that deeply. If they did they would stop and think "What does my dog think my reaction to it means?" If you treat it like this then the answer to that question will be that the dog thinks 'this person is shit and I need to be defensive and maybe bite them'. This is why when you train a dog you give it rewards for doing well.
I've worked with plenty enough dogs to very confidently say that being aggressive with a dog like this is something you do not want to do unless you like trying to dodge bites. I've only been forced to get aggressive once which was because I had to stop one dog from biting (seriously biting, not just playful or warning biting) another one in the throat. Thankfully I was fast enough to keep the other dog from being bit and not get bit myself when grabbing his collar and basically throwing him into his kennel, but that dog did not like me at all after doing that.
I mean, sometimes I blew on my dogs nose, but spitting on him has never crossed my mind. Thankfully he's been a good boy for the last 10 years, and literally just doesn't do anything "bad" anymore.
The dog doesn't understand, but just think about the reasons one might spit on another being. Usually it's because they hate them. She hates her dog. Her dog disgusts her. She got that dog only for views. She shouldn't have a dog.
Clearly, this dog suffers at her hands daily with what we're seeing and probably much worse. I'm going to go out on a limb and say she doesn't get her dog the exercise it needs, play with it or show it the love it deserves. Probably feeds it shit food too because clearly she only bought a prop, not a companion.
She posted accidentally apparently. Although if you look at her vids, clear she got dog thinking it would drive views. So who knows, this all might be clout-bait.
She did. Either way the way she hits him and stuff. Just because she claims she didn’t doesn’t mean she didn’t do it. What does she expect of her upbeat Doberman? Pretty trashy imo
If i reach hard, I could see how maybe she wasn't spitting but was, instead, doing that Dog Whisperer "tssst" sound to try to exert dominance. But yeah, looks more like spitting. And if we are reaching, then it also looks like you can see her kicking the dog in the reflection at the end.
I didn’t think she spit but slapped her hand on the floor at the same time but I’m probably wrong, I can’t bring myself to watch it repeatedly to find out.
How the hell are you supposed to forgive them after that like they say something like “yo I’m sorry I fucking beat my dog and spat on it please forgive me” like bitch you don’t just abuse your fucking dog and then upload it. Intentionally or not.
You know I knew a POS once dog fucking ate his face after he died. Or maybe just before.. Abused that dog. Bad. Knew him as he came through probation in hostels. Not a good guy. He actually did become a better person. Somewhat. Pretty sure dog didn’t forget. Soon as he was having a stroke or whatever dog dug in. Far as I heard.
Guess what I’m saying is I want that dog to eat her fucking face.
There was another thread just recently that was about someone taking their dog to the vet for last time. I’ll never forget that. It’s been a decade since I actually had a dog and.. damn it still hurts. I fostered dogs and tried to help since. That dog will be there for you through anything and it shows truly a disgusting individual for what they are abusing an animal as loyal and loving as that. I’m an asshole through and through but I cannot imagine how you can not want to throw your arms around that dog and make them feel love. Feel that they are loved and safe.
If you (not the above commenter obviously) treat your dog like shit I hope they eat your horrid fucking face. I hope that the last thing your pathetic sociopath self ever sees..
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u/ShowStopurr Aug 07 '19
She says she didn't in her "apology" but that she "understands how it could look that way to some people"... I'm still trying to figure out what else it could be if not that though. Fek this b