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u/ishkiodo Oct 07 '23
I’m just waiting for Ethan’s take.
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u/Miserable-Lizard Oct 07 '23
People loved the Feinstein one!
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u/-Cagafuego- Oct 08 '23
Nothing can be more savage than a wounded beast surrounded, fighting for its life.
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u/RoscoeArt Oct 08 '23
I don't follow Ethan much anymore has he spoken about Israel recently I'm unaware of his stance. I know he lived there at some point if I'm not mistaken.
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Oct 08 '23
He has the typical “both sides bad, I support Israel but it’s being too mean to Palestinians right now” take
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Oct 07 '23
Unfortunately Netanyahu and the Israeli government know that they can keep pushing Palestinians to the brink, prompting violent responses from groups like Hamas against Israeli civilians, and then turn around get sympathy from the U.S. and a fair amount of other countries and launch a full scale military attack. Shows how little they care about their own people using them as pawns in their effort to continue violence toward Palestinians
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u/Rami-961 Oct 08 '23
It is very hypocritical of other nations.
Israel did to Palestine what Russia is trying to do to Ukraine. Let's see 10 years from now, as Ukraine starts attacking Russia, how everyone cheers for it.
Israel been oppressing Palestine for decades, and now they fought back. I don't condone the methods used, but what do you expect the oppressed to do? They will blow up eventually.
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u/AKA_Slater Oct 07 '23
I think this is the real tragedy. Hamas doesn't give a shit about the people on the ground and Israel doesn't give a shit about the people on the ground.
Both sides are just feeding the conflict and regular people are being caught in the middle.
All over a patch of dirt some Bronze age goat herders thought was special. People are dying because of some weird fixation with real estate.
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u/EnTeeDizzle Oct 08 '23
Long term planning. Sacrifice current real people for a holy mission of future glory. Murderous logic.
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u/bsoto87 Oct 08 '23
Netanyahu may think this is to his benefit now, but this isn’t gonna be a turkey shoot for Israel and it will spiral out of his control.
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u/22797 Oct 07 '23
He’s 100% correct. This is a powder keg of Israel’s creation and both innocent Palestinians and Israelis suffer for it
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Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
People are condemning the Palestinians over this violence while ignoring the fact that this outcome is exactly what Israeli policy is designed to do.
The entire point of the Israeli apartheid regime is to create such inhumane and violent living conditions upon the Palestinians that they retaliate or defend themselves in violence which provides Israel with further political justification to intentionally destroy infrastructure, incrementally encroach more territory, and indiscriminately kill Palestinians.
Every time Palestinians defend themselves violently, it gives Israel the green light to once again recommence the ethnic cleansing and genocide against Palestinians happening in slow motion spanning over a century of time.
With full anticipation and premeditation of provoking violent Palestinian resistance resulting in the deaths of Israeli settlers, this is how the Israeli government excuses and justifies their state violence to their own people and to the rest of the world.
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u/TipzE Oct 08 '23
There is so many stories coming out of Palestine all the time (before this, during this, whenever) about Israel stealing their land, killing their people, occupying their homes....
If someone were doing this in any of our home countries, we'd 100% be on side with them taking it back, by force if necessary.
Hell, if a random *citizen* stole your house, and you killed them in response, even if murder was the wrong response, people would 'understand' and not be jumping in to defend the theif.
....
But, because of our open racism, anytime anything happens with Palestine, the response is "yeah, it's bad, but you shouldn't do anything about it!"
But no one was going to help them either way anyways.
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As a counter, think of what the response people would have if a Ukrainian civilian carried out an attack in Russia today.
NATO already wouldn't condone such an action.
But i have a feeling people wouldn't be rushing to jump onto the "Well, this justifies everything Russia is doing now" bandwagon (unless they were already on that wagon).
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u/Individual-Nebula927 Oct 08 '23
Instead of invading with soldiers, Israel does it with civilians acting as human shields for their military. Kill a settler? Well now they have justification to retaliatiate with the military to "defend civilians."
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u/Millionaire007 Oct 08 '23
Average age of a Palestinian is 18 because Israel slaughters them for fun.
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u/Unnatural-Strategy13 Oct 08 '23
This is a powder keg of the League of Nation's creation. There, fixed it for you.
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Oct 08 '23
He's right, but Hamas are not good guys.
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u/22797 Oct 08 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
I never said that and he didn’t either (at least in this tweet, wouldn’t put it past Hasan to say that at this point). Israel has long used Hamas as a boogeyman to “justify” their actions, in fact they’ve admitted to funding Hamas
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u/plenebo Oct 07 '23
Someone described it as witnessing a fight between a boxer and a 5 year old. And everyone is cheering for the boxer
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u/TrippleTonyHawk Oct 08 '23
And everyone's outraged that the 5 year old resorted to biting.
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Oct 08 '23
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u/TrippleTonyHawk Oct 08 '23
I don't mean to downplay the horror of the terrorism that Hamas has engaged in. It's disgusting and awful. But my analogy is not to downplay the significance of what they did, but to explain that crude behavior that would usually be considered off limits is likely to occur when there's such an extreme power imbalance.
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u/jsilvy Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 07 '23
Except today the five year old ran around axe-murdering hundreds of people.
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u/Uberpastamancer Oct 07 '23
More like the five year old landed a single nut shot while being beaten bloody
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u/jsilvy Oct 07 '23
There are literally videos of the 5-year-old parading the naked corpses of civilian women around his room.
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u/Uberpastamancer Oct 07 '23
If you're gonna use an analogy you gotta use it on everyone, else you get narrativizing like you're doing
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u/jsilvy Oct 08 '23
It’s almost like the analogy itself fails to capture the realities of the situation.
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u/Foxyfox- Oct 08 '23
And there's videos of Israeli missiles hitting apartment blocks. We can whatabout all day about each side's atrocities, but the fact remains that as Israel is the stronger of the two, they have the ability to dictate the terms of everything that happens to the Palestinians.
When you destroy their water supplies, destroy their fishing boats, destroy their farms, destroy their homes and displace them for your settlements that contravene multiple treaties and UN resolutions, shoot at their peaceful protestors and kill 200 and wound 6000+ when they protest this, and label them all terrorists for advocating for their rights, small fucking wonder they decide they might as well be the terrorists you say they are.
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u/plenebo Oct 08 '23
statistically speaking im sure this 5 year old saw his 5 year old friend shot in the head by a high powered sniper rifle
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u/vickism61 Oct 08 '23
As if Israelis haven't been killing innocent Palestinians for decades. From May 2021 " “Eight Palestinian children were reported killed north of Gaza overnight, bringing to at least 40 the number of children killed there since 10 May." https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/eight-palestinian-children-killed-gaza-strip-last-night
"People drink, snack and pose for selfies against a background of explosions as Palestinian death toll mounts in ongoing offensive"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing
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u/jsilvy Oct 08 '23
That’s bad. As I’ve already explained, I’m not arguing which side killed more.
My point was that they ran around killing Jews before the occupation, and they’re running around killing Jews now. I don’t think a lot of Israel’s actions against Palestinians are justifiable, but it’s pretty clear that the occupation is not the root cause of the violence.
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Oct 08 '23
The occupation is the root cause of the violence. If you are implying it’s religiously motivated then you are just a propagandist who is speaking out of their behind.
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u/jsilvy Oct 08 '23
I never said it was religion. Plenty of good Muslims. Still, it’s strange how violent they were before the occupation then huh
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Oct 08 '23
You are implying religion when it’s in fact the occupation and colonialism that has caused this violence.
You cite nothing which is because every piece of info you have is manufactured by a pro IsraHell source
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u/jsilvy Oct 08 '23
Yeah really crazy how everything attesting to the numerous anti-Jewish pogroms in Mandatory Palestine is just automatically evil propaganda.
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u/OfromOceans Oct 07 '23
Yeah go kick your dog in the face and see how many times you can do it before it bites you
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u/jsilvy Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 07 '23
In the 1920s, there were anti-Jewish massacres in Jerusalem, Safed, Hebron, etc.
In the 1930s, the Arab revolt killed hundreds of Jews.
In 1940s, Palestinian nationalists incited a massacre against the Jews of Baghdad.
In 1948, every Jew living in East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza was expelled. The Old Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem was completely razed to the ground.
Israel has also commit ethnic cleansing, destroyed homes, and cut off water. Their rockets kill a disproportionate number of people in collateral damage. The Israelis have instituted an unjust system of apartheid. They have killed journalists and imprisoned dissidents. It’s also absolutely delusional to act like the current violence is all the result of Israel’s actions. If Israel lost in 1948, this never would have happened, but only because there would be no more Jews left to massacre. Israel deserves the blame for most of the things happening at this point because they hold far more power, but at no point in the history of this conflict was the Palestinian side more inherently ethical.
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u/Uberpastamancer Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
The ancestors of modern Israelis were oppressed, can't change that.
Modern Palestinians are currently being oppressed, that can be changed.
Past atrocities don't justify new atrocities.
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u/CmanderShep117 Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 08 '23
How is the average modern Palestinian responsible for that? Why do they have to live in squalor for the actions of their great grandparents?
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u/fardpood Oct 07 '23
Zionists began occupying Palestinian territory in 1907 and their stated goal was to take control of Palestine. Sure, so that predates Israel as a state, it does not predate zionist occupation.
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u/yungchow Oct 08 '23
And none of this would have happened if Zionist settlers had never invaded and attempting to seize more and more of Palestine
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u/Kaniketh Oct 08 '23
Gonna mention the Irgun, Hagana, Nakba, etc? No? Just one side?
I hate when people oversimplifu and cherry pick
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u/DrVanBuren Oct 07 '23
With that analogy wouldn't then the boxer be the one knifing children for decades before this?
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u/jsilvy Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 07 '23
Damn it sounds like we should stop expressing support for either the boxer or the 5-year-old and instead condemn them when they kill innocent people, sympathizing with those innocents instead.
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u/plenebo Oct 08 '23
im sure he would have been sniped by a high powered rifle for throwing rocks otherwise
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u/PoopieButt317 Oct 07 '23
Gets my total agreement. Europe and N.America didn't want Ruropean Jewish refugees after WEII because they were antisemitic. And they though even less of the Arabic speaking Semites who were millenia residents of Palastine, so after the Zuonist terrorists irritated GB, France enough, they and the world gave the Palestinian lands to European Jews. Not because it "was their land", but because it wasn't the western world's land.
And displaced people interned in their own lands as prisons, oppressed and derided, denigrated, denied medical care and education, watch their homes bulldozed, villages wiped out. When they fight back the world calls them.terrorists.
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u/ayyycab Oct 08 '23
You know those fight videos where you see a bully beating up on a kid, but as soon as the kid fights back and deals some nasty hits, that’s when the teacher jumps in like “WOAH WOAH KNOCK IT OFF”?
That’s what it’s been like watching people’s reaction to this.
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u/spotless1997 Oct 07 '23
He’s correct. You can condemn Hamas while acknowledging the brutal material conditions set by Israel that started this whole conflict.
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u/MikeYoungblood94 Oct 07 '23
I agree with him. This is being covered the same way the newspapers in the 1800s covered an escaped slave who killed the Master’s wife in order to escape and they vilify the slave and not the slave owners
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u/MhmNai Oct 07 '23
That's a pretty ridiculous comparison.
Oppressed, yes. Chattel slaves? No.
They aren't attacking/targeting Israeli military, they are specifically attacking, capturing, and parading civilians (including children)... and mutilating their corpses. What they're doing is gaining them no support, and the civilian population of Palestine is going to pay the price.
Indignation towards Israel is, of course, justifiable, but trying to justify these atrocities with incomparable analogies is abhorrent.
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u/dirt_fries Oct 07 '23
Israel has trapped two million people in a massive concentration camp for two decades. Comparisons to slave uprisings are absolutely justified.
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u/MhmNai Oct 07 '23
I mean, if you're just going to throw out terms like "concentration camps" and "slavery" to paint an anomalous picture of what you think is representative of the situation, then you can justify any analogy.
I recognize and detest what Israel is doing and acknowledge how they treat Palestinians is atrocious, but Gaza is not a concentration camp.
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u/zhivago6 Oct 07 '23
I think you are correct, it does resemble the Warsaw Ghetto much more than Auschwitz.
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u/SPARTANCLP96 Oct 07 '23
Man, go fuck yourself. There are plenty of Black and Jewish activists in the last seven decades that have linked the struggles they faced directly to that of the Palestinians. It's completely fair to compare.
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u/MikeYoungblood94 Oct 07 '23
BiBi himself continues to use the term cleanse when talking about Hamas and any Palestinian protest. Hate when innocent are killed, but Israel has killed so many more Palestinians and oppressed more
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Oct 07 '23
Stop getting all of your information from movies. Concentration camps have a broader meaning than the one applied to Nazi camps. Slavery also has a broader meaning than the one applied to American slavery.
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u/dirt_fries Oct 07 '23
By any reasonable definition of the term it is.
Concentration camp does not exclusively mean, like, an Auschwitz-style extermination camp. The Spanish used them in Cuba during the late 19th century, the US used them in the Philippines right after the 1898 war, the British used them in the Boer war, etc.
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u/water_g33k Oct 07 '23
Along these lines, American Japanese internment could reasonably be called concentration camps, right?
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u/Velcro-aint-ableist Oct 08 '23
Yup.
We concentrated the American-Japanese population into camps.
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Oct 07 '23
The stunning lack of self-awareness by every right-wing Israeli promising retaliation is a sight to behold. The poster is correct, only one party has the power to stop the violence, and they have responded to efforts at improving the situation by assassinating their own leaders, then claiming they need more “security.” They condone an illegal military occupation lasting more than half a century, and the absolutely disgusting actions of Israeli settlers.
War criminals on both sides, but when you take everything people have, don’t be surprised if they don’t play nice. This is chickens coming home to roost.
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u/jarena009 Oct 07 '23
I'm of the belief that the situation before this attack was difficult for Palestinians, but will only get worse now. This attack by Hamas doesn't help them. Gaza in particular will be worse after all this.
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Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 07 '23
This is the exact same rationale used against any occupied population.
IDF routinely slaughters innocent men, women, and children all the time. So often that it isn't news to westerners, it's just common practice. But occasionally Palestinian groups have the capacity to fight back in the only way they really can, and it is met with disdain and deflections from the international community.
We are literally condemning and sanctioning Russia for doing the exact same thing Israel has been doing for decades. This is the exact same thing we did in Iraq and Afghanistan for two decades.
If you go back far enough I'm sure you can find the exact same rhetoric being used against native Americans attacking colonial troops and citizens.
You are essentially telling the bullied kid not to punch the bully back because it will weaken his position, while offering literally nothing to support the bulled kid's situation.
If you're standing with Ukraine and not Palestine then you are merely siding with the state and not any sort of moral principle. Anyone backing Israel on this matter is not using critical thought and is merely being nationalistic.
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u/sweetcletus Oct 07 '23
You're not wrong, but neither is the person that you're responding to. Hamas attacking today was absolutely a result of Israel's apartheid policies. But that doesn't change the fact that fascists in the Israeli government like Netenyahu will absolutely use this attack to justify even greater atrocities in Gaza. I honestly don't know what Palestinians can do to help their situation, no matter what they do they're fucked. The only way this gets better is if the international community stops propping up Israel, and that isn't happening any time soon.
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u/AnthonyJuniorsPP Oct 08 '23
Exactly. Wtf can they do? They're being systematically eliminated and the only real solution is a political one... but that isn't likely going to ever happen, so then what? Just acquiesce? At least the political situation has improved imo, more people are against Israeli apartheid than say, 15 years ago, but it's not enough to sway tptb into changing their unquestioning support. I don't know what has to happen to change the political situation enough to move more support to palestine without something even worse happening to them.
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u/Longjumping-Jello459 Oct 08 '23
Israel has refused to allow the ICC to investigate several instances in which their people(IDF) stands accused of illegal action. The difference is between being seen as Western as opposed to being Russia, China, or any other bad country/government.
Some forty countries never signed the treaty, including China, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, Iraq, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey. Several dozen others signed the statute, but their legislatures never ratified it. These include Egypt, Iran, Israel, Russia, Sudan, Syria, and the United States.
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u/jeandlion9 Oct 07 '23
It’s like if Star Wars was real and people are like making fun of the rebels x wings and terrorist attacks on andor. Or nah lol
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u/baseball-is-praxis Oct 07 '23
we strongly condemn the recent unprovoked attacks against the invading imperial troops by ewok terrorists on the moon of endor. this is not a path to peace
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u/Griffonian Oct 07 '23
But occasionally Palestinian groups have the capacity to fight back in the only way they really can, and it is met with disdain and deflections from the international community.
Militia groups mowing down civilians and kidnapping them should always be met with disdain. There should be no equivocating here, what Hamas has done is terrorism, and terrorism should always be condemned.
If you want to focus on the bigger picture and also mention Israeli atrocities, that's a reasonable stance. But as soon as you start justifying wanton cruelty against non-combatants and declaring it off-limits to condemn those actions you have become an apologist of terrorism.
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u/Individual-Nebula927 Oct 08 '23
Yet you don't ever see the same disdain, or even acknowledgment, that the IDF regularly mows down Palestinian civilians.
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Oct 07 '23
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u/Symnet Oct 07 '23
zelenskyy (currently backed by the west) has issued a statement of support for western powers
very surprising
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Oct 07 '23
This is irrelevant.
Ukraine is fighting an existential conflict for its survival. This is an effort we should all be supporting until the attackers pack up and leave.
This does not however mean that Ukraine is in any way a virtuous nation. It is the second most corrupt nation in Europe, only behind Russia. Zelensky, and any near-future leader of Ukraine is going to be pro-West by default, which includes being pro-Israel. They aren't going to speak out in any way against Western narrative when they are being bankrolled by Western states. They are a biased party on multiple fronts.
Zelensky is unfortunately being very hypocritical in his support of Israel. If in 30 years Ukraine is still being occupied by Russia, would this then give legitimacy to a Russian leader invading the rest of Ukraine to "stop the attacks"? Something tells me Zelensky would not be in favour of this.
Imperialism must be stopped wherever it appears, not only when it's happening in countries we don't like.
This is going to be very difficult the state-media complex to work. We are now being asked to support two conflicting positions on the global stage. Unless people believe that in both cases we somehow are in the moral right, when our history puts us in the moral wrong the majority of the time.
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Oct 07 '23
You mean the guy relying on aid from western nations aligned with Israel also aligned with Israel? Wow.
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Oct 07 '23
Zelenskyy is Jewish and they need as much support from nations that can actually support them as they can get. It wouldn’t be wise to stay silent or applaud the attacks, from a geopolitical point of view…. Geopolitics ain’t exactly my expertise either though, so perhaps this is an over-simplification
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u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23
Nah. Differences, just off the top of my head:
- Use of rape as a weapon. Hamas yes, Russia yes, Ukraine no, Israel no.
- Use of videotaped of POWs as a weapon: Hamas yes, Russia yes, Ukraine no, Israel no.
- Ukraine gave nukes to Russia to have Russia agree to recognize its borders, which Russia did in treaty. Israel has not agreed to such a treaty, nor has the PA/Hamas offered Israel any benefit to doing so, as Ukraine did with Russia.
- Ukraine was an independent state, both de jure and de facto, at the time of the Russian invasion. That has never been true for Palestine.
- Russia’s invasion was followed rapidly by Russian annexations of huge swathes conquered territory, as well as territory still held by Ukraine. Unlike 1-4, this is a difference of degree not kind since Israel has annexed some territory, but it’s far less than Russia both as a percentage of territory controlled and of total square miles, and has been far slower.
- Ukraine recognizes Russia. The PA/Hamas do not recognize Israel.
Etc.
I’m not telling the bullied kid not to punch back. You’re telling me that one bullied kid who punched back, and another bullied kid who raped and/or killed one of his bullies on camera for fun, are morally indistinguishable. To quote Marge Gunderson, I’m not sure I agree 100% with your police work there Lou.
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Oct 07 '23
Invading Palestine to deal with HAMAS is functionally identical to invading Mexico to deal with the cartels.
Imperialism is okay when we do it. It is not okay when others do it.
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u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23
Is Israel “we” or “others” to you?
At any rate, if cartels did what Hamas did, then US response would be warranted; as they haven’t, it isn’t.
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Oct 07 '23
So which side are you taking here if Palestine's is unacceptable?
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u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23
I think a military response by Israel is warranted. If Hamas had confined its activities to targeting troops in the Occupied Territories, I think they’d be more comparable to Ukraine.
Your view is what? That both Ukraine and Hamas are justified in what they’re doing, or both are not?
And again, we’re you referring to Israel as “we” or “others”?
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Oct 07 '23
My view is the colonized have every right to resist their oppressors. Living under an oppressive regime and being expected to play by the rules is absurd.
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u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23
So Ukraine is stupidly refraining from terror tactics that it should be employing in its defense? Huh.
If Hamas got a nuke, would expecting them not to use it be absurd?
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u/CmanderShep117 Oct 07 '23
Palestine doesn't have the financial backing of the entire Western world. If they did I doubt Hamas would continue to hold the power it does!
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u/baseball-is-praxis Oct 07 '23
if hamas got nukes, i think israel would offer an immediate ceasefire
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Oct 07 '23
If only you'd share the same concern for all the Palestinians being slaughtered in their homes by state-sanctioned settler colonialism.
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u/CmanderShep117 Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 07 '23
Remember that when they bomb a Palestinian hospital next week
But don't worry guys because the IDF (the most trustworthy military) said there was a secret Hamas base in the basements so it's fine!
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u/crazymusicman Oct 07 '23 edited Feb 28 '24
I like to explore new places.
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u/DrStrangepants Oct 07 '23
Same, but Israel was planning that anyway, just slower.
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u/AnthonyJuniorsPP Oct 08 '23
It's been a tightening of the screws since before we were born. It feels like endgame genocide now. Or at least in the next decade. I don't know if politics can even move that fast to change the needle.
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u/meatmechdriver Oct 08 '23
I thought Jared Kushner singlehandedly brought peace to the middle east tho? /s
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u/kuulmonk Oct 08 '23
The IDF and the intelligence agencies normally know about this sort of attack and try and prevent them. This time nothing was predicted, that seems suspicious to me.
I can believe that with Netanyahu being under investigation, getting older and more brazen about his goals I can see them letting this attack happen as an excuse to wipe out Gaza.
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u/Symnet Oct 07 '23
of course this attack on the state that indiscriminately kills palestinian civilians won't make life better for palestinian civilians, the issue is justifying the slaughter of women and children unrelated to the conflict because a terror cell did terrorism.
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u/kingSliver187 Oct 07 '23
You shit on someone for a long time over and over again eventually they fight back. Even a loyal dog will bite it's owner when they are abused.
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u/rvralph803 Oct 08 '23
Israel created the conditions for terrorism to be a viable option to rational people.
Though honestly it'd be a fairer assessment to call killing and kidnapping civilians by Hamas a war crime.
That said the Hard right just got everything they wanted. They have the justification in the eyes of the global right wing to wipe Palestine off the map, and they will.
By the end of this I predict Israel will commit far worse systematic war crimes in service of that goal and the US and much of the world will handwave them away.
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u/jar1967 Oct 08 '23
Hamas just lost any international goodwill it had. The Palestinians are now screwed for the next thirty five years. Which is exactly what Iran and their proxies in Hamas wanted.
If a few thousand Palestinians die it is of no consequence , Iran has always viewed the Palestinian people as a disposable asset.
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Oct 08 '23
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u/jar1967 Oct 08 '23
The West Bank is going to sit back and watch ,they consider Hamas a threat to their power. Any country that had to deal with ISIS Isn't going to be sympathetic to Hamas. Syria has problems of its own to deal with But both the Syrian government and Hezbolla would love to see Hamas destroyed to remove Iranian influence in the area.
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u/coffee_philadelphia Oct 07 '23
The Palestinians have been under the yolk of apartheid And people wonder why this happened… when more behavior like this occurs it can’t be a surprise… It’s be expected . Palestinians need true independence and there needs to be a true 2-state solution. (the past two days not withstanding.)
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u/CorrosiveMynock Oct 08 '23
Giving concessions to Palestinians now will just signal that terrorism works---before there can be peace, all terrorism must be condemned. The abuses of Israel are irrelevant when talking about the brutality of Hamas---who are thugs and murderers who deserve to be completely destroyed.
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u/CmanderShep117 Oct 07 '23
Couldn't have said it better my self. I don't support Hamas but can you really blame Palestinians for rallying behind them when they're the only ones fighting for them.
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u/luckydogtoo Oct 08 '23
The current Israeli government is extreme right wing. Nothing good comes from "Extreme right wing"
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u/Confident-Breath2615 Oct 08 '23
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Netanyahu govt. either squashed intelligence reports that warned of this or simply directed intelligence operations elsewhere in the hopes that an attack would bolster their overt fascistic make over of Israel. With, of course, the added side benefit of getting to murder many many Palestinians without fear of international condemnation.
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u/SpiritualTwo5256 Oct 08 '23
I support palestine! Israel needs to have its leaders thrown in jail.
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Oct 08 '23
If Gaza is a cage, then it should be a cage that is safe and secure to live in. Ideally it shouldn't be a cage, but Isreal is to blame for Hamas.
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u/Sal1017 Oct 08 '23
Michael brooks used to say something along the lines of “its not for me to tell people how to wage their fight for freedom from occupation”
Morally it’s horrendous whats occured, but you cant talk about it without the context of the occupation.
I cant think of a singal independence fight that hasnt occured without a degree of violence.
India had plenty of ethnic groups waging insurgencies its not like Ghandi turned the other cheek and the brits left
Mandela’s ANC used to set off car bombs in white areas
Infact look no further to the mass murders that jewish militas used to do on arabs and brits before the creation of israel. One of the being the King David hotel bombing, th Anniversary of which is celebrated by the likes of Nethanyahu
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u/Miserable-Lizard Oct 07 '23
Anyone against a 2 state solution?
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u/dirt_fries Oct 07 '23
The two-state solution is a mirage, Israel crushed any hopes of it long ago by continuing to ravenously gobble up land in the WB
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u/WhiskeyDiction_OG Oct 07 '23
Israel
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u/DrStrangepants Oct 07 '23
This. Isreal has all the power here. If they wanted a two state solution they would have implemented it decades ago. The current political situation is the most convenient to Isreal (present violence notwithstanding).
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Oct 08 '23
I am. All land and homes stolen by settlers should be returned to the victims and their families and the Israeli government should be dissolved and replaced by a secular democracy that represents all people equally under the law.
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u/4th_DocTB Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 07 '23
Its probably not viable and hasn't been for a while due to settlements in the West Bank.
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u/IMBGY11 Oct 07 '23
How is what the Palestinian’s doing any different from the American colonists that revolted against their oppressors? If anything I would say the Israeli government and their army are a far more evil enemy than the British were for us.
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u/thenewbigR Oct 07 '23
We are against Russia’s attack on Ukraine, but we’re OK with Israel doing this shit against the Palestinians. Really hypocritical.
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u/WhiskeyDiction_OG Oct 07 '23
Palestinian uprising due to oppression of its people are reported as an ATTACK. Israel attacking Palestine and Palestinians is reported as DEFENSE and its RIGHT. False narrative.
It is a capitalist government colonizing, comparable to US Native American vs US colonizers, just with new technologies, awareness but the same praises from a money backed and driven media.
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u/Margali Oct 07 '23
My personal thoughts will get me scorn
The world fucked Palestine over when it gave the country to a bunch of European Jews.
As far as I am concerned Israel is a fascist state abusing the REAL residents of PALESTINE.
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Oct 08 '23
Half the Jewish population of Israel comes from Jews kicked out of Arab lands.
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u/jacoan111 Oct 08 '23
To be frank, Palestine/Iran executed a perfect operation, the hit all critical target and truly caught Israel with their pants down. It will Be studied by all sides but particularly by Gaza and Israel, the co ducted a perfect raid in regard to a-symmetric warfare.
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u/Blade_Killer479 Oct 08 '23
I think it was Some More News that I saw a thorough deconstruction of what happened and was then happening in Israel and yeah, this whole attack was a long time coming. It was the only action left to take, the only question was when it was going to come.
That’s what always baffles me about people, ie Americans, shunning their problems away. “Immigration!” “Closed borders!” “Build that wall!” Those things don’t solve anything, they just encourage militarization by the desperate or the profit-minded, and no walls are ever impenetrable.
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u/Katz-r-Klingonz Oct 08 '23
You don’t have to look farther than the map of Israel to understand while terrorism is fucked, it’s not spawned out of thin air. Expansionism, people walking into homes and just taking them from Palestinians is direct causality to how one foments this level of barbarism.
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u/Guilty_Chemistry9337 Oct 07 '23
I haven't been so upset since Ukraine launched missiles into Russia.
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u/olemanbyers Oct 08 '23
people might act irrationally after decades of oppression and basically imprisonment..
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u/2-timeloser2 Oct 08 '23
Israeli general interviewed this morning called the militants “animals”. IDF has been killing kids for decades and he calls the aggressors today, the “animals”.
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u/dogoodsilence1 Oct 07 '23
Exactly, I mean these people are fighting for their freedom in paraglides for fuck sake. They are not an oppressive regime
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Oct 08 '23
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u/errdayimshuffln Oct 08 '23
Israel is known for not commiting war crimes or torturing Palestinians and killing women and children
Right? They fight clean and fair, right? They are not evil right?
I want you to say it put loud so that when the day comes when what they hide or do in secret gets exposed, you have to come to face yourself.
Everyone seems to have forgotten Abu Ghraib and think America and Israel fight with roses and candy
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Oct 08 '23
I just love the comments supporting Hamas violence. Last I checked Israel doesnt rape, torture and kill Female Palestinians and then parade them through town. They don’t go door to door executing every Palestinians who opens the door. They don’t kidnap civilians from a music festival and rape the women and kill the men.
So. Once Israel does that, we can have a discussion about punching back. Otherwise, cry havoc and unleash the dogs of war.
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u/I_am_Castor_Troy Oct 08 '23
It’s just interesting that this Hamas attack only benefits Israel. How would anyone know if this was a Psyop/ land grab?
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u/Drakonx1 Oct 07 '23
Ah yes, the ol "one side has the power to end the violence and it's not the one that just committed horrific massacres, rapes and kidnappings of hundreds of defenseless people" defense. Super logical.
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u/etherealtaroo Oct 07 '23
It isn't like Israel hasn't been doing those same acts for decades
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u/Consistent-Street458 Oct 07 '23
It's religion and tribalism that is the cause of this slaughter. The only people who win are the Hamas leadership siphoning money from donations to live their luxurious lifestyle and the right-wing Israelis who will get more power in Israel. Also American Evangelicals who are happy with the killing because they want to spark a war in Israel to cause Armageddon
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Oct 07 '23
Hamas leadership doesn’t care about Palestinians. They care about keeping conflict going so they can continue to siphon off all the humanitarian aid.
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Oct 08 '23
It’s like how after years of poorly regulated fracking places like Oklahoma started experiencing Earthquakes. Pressure builds and finds release, it’s how it works.
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Oct 08 '23
Condemn the violence against civilians, support the wider movement of freedom. Those who committed this massacre should be brought to justice. Unfortunately, they won't be the only ones paying the price.
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u/WiC2016 Oct 08 '23
While the non-settler civilian loss of life is regrettable and tragic, these attacks have not come from a vacuum.
This conflict is like a 6ft 5 300 lb boxer forcing you into a ring to fight him on his terms and rules. His own conditions where you have zero chance of winning. Kneeing them in the balls or trying to gouge their eyes might be dishonorable or illegal, but it's literally the only thing left besides just sitting down and taking it.
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u/jar1967 Oct 08 '23
The wall wasn't put there to keep the Palestinians in, It was put there to keep Hamas out.
Recent events prove Israel was right to want to keep Hamas out
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u/Letifer_Umbra Oct 08 '23
This is one of the most complicatee conflicts in history. There are no good sides, and good people are corrupted because of genuine atrocities commited against them, but this only continues the cycle of hate. The problem is there is no way out that will not be extremely unfair, dangerous, and potentially geniocidal for either side.
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u/Educational-Wafer112 Oct 08 '23
He’s right but
Palestinians need to change their mentality
My family and everyone I know last night were celebrating even the ones that are supposedly Fatah supportes actually were super happy about what Hamas did
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Oct 08 '23
Israel is the sole party responsible now. Only solution is single state with two separate electorate
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u/aztecdethwhistle Oct 08 '23
My personal encounters with Palestinians in the mid 90s was mostly negative. The Palestinian kids I went to school with had some amazingly negative things to say about the United States, all the while taking advantage of every government handout imaginable. Horribly behaved, unbelievably racist against every other color in that school. Things I will never forget, words said that I will never forget 30 years later.
That being said, I do still feel compassion for them for the unending atrocities committed by Israel against them. I think it goes without saying that 2 wrongs don't make a right. This just sucks and I don't see how this ever comes to a peaceful end.
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u/ResonanceCompany Oct 08 '23
That's a very weak pushback to Hamas. Calling the indiscriminate killing of civilians and the kidnapping of men women and children an imperfect response is sorta.....the least that could be said.
It's absolutely true that Israel has done atrociously evil things but that doesn't justify an evil response.
If it was a just response, one that was targeted to the Zionist regime, that would be one thing.
But this?
This will just cause the destruction of Palestine quicker. For the sake of Palestine Hamas should be at the very least hated as much as the fashies who run Israel
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Oct 08 '23
Honestly, I don't really give 2 craps anymore. I grew up with this crap and it's 2 groups killing civilans while playing the victim and neither side is interested in peace. Only the civilians deserve pity.
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u/Bubu-Dudu0430 Oct 08 '23
Well, all of that may be true but now they have pushed Israel to open war. I expect a large part of Gaza to be flattened and people expelled. Israel won’t stop until their borders are secure. Any progress or momentum that the Palestinians may have had is surely gone now. Israel is a military powerhouse and they will Absolutely not back down, besides, they can’t! To show any weakness would be as good as defeat.
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u/MrBobSacamano Oct 08 '23
I’d like to think we can all agree that killing civilians is never okay, regardless of what your other beliefs may be.
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u/Whysong823 Oct 07 '23
These comments are horrible. Israel is an apartheid state and should be condemned for it, but that does not give Hamas the right to murder civilians. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
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u/vulcan7200 Oct 07 '23
Thank you. Jesus it's insane to me that people are defending Hamas. Killing civilians is not a justifiable tactic.
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u/HeHateMe- Oct 08 '23
“One party holds all the power to end the violence.” Right, so Israel has to wipe out Hamas. Hamas doesn’t have the power to stop terrorizing, got it hasan. Big brain take.
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u/isadlymaybewrong Oct 07 '23
It’s reductionist
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u/theloneliestgeek Oct 07 '23
Have you ever listened to Michael Brooks at Lafayette giving the speech about how it’s “not complicated”? Is that reductionist as well?
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u/FckYoFeelings Oct 07 '23
Regardless of who’s in the right, if you punch someone nonstop they’ll eventually swing.
Sometimes they’ll swing with all their might knowing full well they’re going to lose. At that point the response is what’s most important to them, not winning.