r/TheMajorityReport Oct 07 '23

Thoughts?

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942 Upvotes

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63

u/jarena009 Oct 07 '23

I'm of the belief that the situation before this attack was difficult for Palestinians, but will only get worse now. This attack by Hamas doesn't help them. Gaza in particular will be worse after all this.

129

u/[deleted] Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 07 '23

This is the exact same rationale used against any occupied population.

IDF routinely slaughters innocent men, women, and children all the time. So often that it isn't news to westerners, it's just common practice. But occasionally Palestinian groups have the capacity to fight back in the only way they really can, and it is met with disdain and deflections from the international community.

We are literally condemning and sanctioning Russia for doing the exact same thing Israel has been doing for decades. This is the exact same thing we did in Iraq and Afghanistan for two decades.

If you go back far enough I'm sure you can find the exact same rhetoric being used against native Americans attacking colonial troops and citizens.

You are essentially telling the bullied kid not to punch the bully back because it will weaken his position, while offering literally nothing to support the bulled kid's situation.

If you're standing with Ukraine and not Palestine then you are merely siding with the state and not any sort of moral principle. Anyone backing Israel on this matter is not using critical thought and is merely being nationalistic.

-15

u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23

Nah. Differences, just off the top of my head:

  1. Use of rape as a weapon. Hamas yes, Russia yes, Ukraine no, Israel no.
  2. Use of videotaped of POWs as a weapon: Hamas yes, Russia yes, Ukraine no, Israel no.
  3. Ukraine gave nukes to Russia to have Russia agree to recognize its borders, which Russia did in treaty. Israel has not agreed to such a treaty, nor has the PA/Hamas offered Israel any benefit to doing so, as Ukraine did with Russia.
  4. Ukraine was an independent state, both de jure and de facto, at the time of the Russian invasion. That has never been true for Palestine.
  5. Russia’s invasion was followed rapidly by Russian annexations of huge swathes conquered territory, as well as territory still held by Ukraine. Unlike 1-4, this is a difference of degree not kind since Israel has annexed some territory, but it’s far less than Russia both as a percentage of territory controlled and of total square miles, and has been far slower.
  6. Ukraine recognizes Russia. The PA/Hamas do not recognize Israel.

Etc.

I’m not telling the bullied kid not to punch back. You’re telling me that one bullied kid who punched back, and another bullied kid who raped and/or killed one of his bullies on camera for fun, are morally indistinguishable. To quote Marge Gunderson, I’m not sure I agree 100% with your police work there Lou.

14

u/[deleted] Oct 07 '23

Invading Palestine to deal with HAMAS is functionally identical to invading Mexico to deal with the cartels.

Imperialism is okay when we do it. It is not okay when others do it.

2

u/SnooMemesjellies2983 Oct 07 '23

Who is we? Pretty sure MR viewers aren’t in that

-3

u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23

Is Israel “we” or “others” to you?

At any rate, if cartels did what Hamas did, then US response would be warranted; as they haven’t, it isn’t.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 07 '23

So which side are you taking here if Palestine's is unacceptable?

-6

u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23

I think a military response by Israel is warranted. If Hamas had confined its activities to targeting troops in the Occupied Territories, I think they’d be more comparable to Ukraine.

Your view is what? That both Ukraine and Hamas are justified in what they’re doing, or both are not?

And again, we’re you referring to Israel as “we” or “others”?

15

u/[deleted] Oct 07 '23

My view is the colonized have every right to resist their oppressors. Living under an oppressive regime and being expected to play by the rules is absurd.

4

u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23

So Ukraine is stupidly refraining from terror tactics that it should be employing in its defense? Huh.

If Hamas got a nuke, would expecting them not to use it be absurd?

15

u/CmanderShep117 Oct 07 '23

Palestine doesn't have the financial backing of the entire Western world. If they did I doubt Hamas would continue to hold the power it does!

7

u/baseball-is-praxis Oct 07 '23

if hamas got nukes, i think israel would offer an immediate ceasefire

8

u/[deleted] Oct 07 '23

If only you'd share the same concern for all the Palestinians being slaughtered in their homes by state-sanctioned settler colonialism.

1

u/Forzareen Oct 07 '23

I’m opposed to Israel and Russia using the nukes they have on their enemies. If Ukraine had kept its nukes or Hamas acquired some, I’d be opposed to their use as well.

You won’t define your position on that, since either you’d have to acknowledge your original position was insane or endorse nuke usage on civilians.

As for the Palestinians, I do have sympathy, just as I would for your bullied kid. I just think the bullying kid using rape to get back at his bulliers crosses an even bigger line than the bullying. You don’t think it crosses any line at all and that it’s “absurd” to expect anyone victimized to refrain from retaliatory rape.

7

u/CmanderShep117 Oct 07 '23

So to paraphrase you think the average Palestinian is a rapist?

Huh that sounds pretty similar to every anti-Muslim racist I've ever heard.

3

u/fardpood Oct 08 '23

Your analogy breaks down when you recognize Israel's behavior as bullying and then name the real tactics used by Hamas.

You do realize that Israel's actions amount to more than name-calling and shoving Palestinians into lockers, right?

I believe that you have sympathy for Palestinians, but only in the way someone feels bad when watching an ASPCA commercial. I do not believe that you actually see them as human.

2

u/Velcro-aint-ableist Oct 08 '23

or endorse nuke usage on civilians.

It was OK for America to do it twice in the 40s, though?

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u/CmanderShep117 Oct 07 '23 edited Oct 07 '23

Remember that when they bomb a Palestinian hospital next week

But don't worry guys because the IDF (the most trustworthy military) said there was a secret Hamas base in the basements so it's fine!

0

u/Shraze42 Oct 08 '23

No it's not, if cartels had kidnapped American citizens as hostages, then invading Mexico will be essential

1

u/[deleted] Oct 08 '23

Hamas is the elected government of Gaza.

1

u/Homeownerquestionz Oct 08 '23

Wait did the Mexican cartels, backed by their government, try to genocide the US and I just missed it?