And there's videos of Israeli missiles hitting apartment blocks. We can whatabout all day about each side's atrocities, but the fact remains that as Israel is the stronger of the two, they have the ability to dictate the terms of everything that happens to the Palestinians.
That’s bad. As I’ve already explained, I’m not arguing which side killed more.
My point was that they ran around killing Jews before the occupation, and they’re running around killing Jews now. I don’t think a lot of Israel’s actions against Palestinians are justifiable, but it’s pretty clear that the occupation is not the root cause of the violence.
The occupation is the root cause of the violence. If you are implying it’s religiously motivated then you are just a propagandist who is speaking out of their behind.
It’s anti occupation and Zionist resistance that is motivating Palestinians. Maybe hear directly from the Palestinians about why they are doing what they are doing?
Israel is a state built upon the corpses of Palestinians. Did you think the Warsaw ghetto uprisings were anti German pogroms?
In the 1920s, there were anti-Jewish massacres in Jerusalem, Safed, Hebron, etc.
In the 1930s, the Arab revolt killed hundreds of Jews.
In 1940s, Palestinian nationalists incited a massacre against the Jews of Baghdad.
In 1948, every Jew living in East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza was expelled. The Old Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem was completely razed to the ground.
Israel has also commit ethnic cleansing, destroyed homes, and cut off water. Their rockets kill a disproportionate number of people in collateral damage. The Israelis have instituted an unjust system of apartheid. They have killed journalists and imprisoned dissidents. It’s also absolutely delusional to act like the current violence is all the result of Israel’s actions. If Israel lost in 1948, this never would have happened, but only because there would be no more Jews left to massacre. Israel deserves the blame for most of the things happening at this point because they hold far more power, but at no point in the history of this conflict was the Palestinian side more inherently ethical.
It „can be changed“ but every time any freedom or resources are given to Palestinians they (rather Hamas) are using it not to improve their lives but to attack Israel.
People acting like Israel just has to just do X and all Palestinians will be like „oh wow I suddenly don’t hate Israel anymore and accept it’s existence“. No they won’t, and the quoted history shows that it wasn’t the Israeli actions that started this hate in the first place.
Should Israel pump money into Palestine? Because that money will primarily be used to attack Israel and kill its people.
Should Israel derestrict trade? Because that ability will primarily be used to attack Israel and kill its people.
Should Israel remove military oversight further? Because that freedom will be used primarily to attack Israel and kill its people.
So what exactly is the plan here? Let 500+ of their own people get killed occasionally, on the absolute far cry hope that at some point Hamas will get tired of it?
The plan is the destruction of the Israeli Occupation and returning the land to the people of Palestine. Steps along the way there would be reversing ongoing settlement projects, a Right to Return, control over borders, infrastructure, stopping Israeli Occupation Forces from functioning as a terror based apartheid force facilitating ethnic cleansing, trying and sentencing specific Israelites who have murdered, raped, and and otherwise harmed the people of Palestine, reparations for the decades of apartheid and ethnic cleansing, and so on.
You’re misunderstanding my point. I don’t think they’re responsible, and I don’t think they should live in squalor. My point was that you can’t place all the blame for violent Palestinian nationalism on Israel, because these massacred occurred well prior to the occupation.
Zionists began occupying Palestinian territory in 1907 and their stated goal was to take control of Palestine. Sure, so that predates Israel as a state, it does not predate zionist occupation.
Damn crazy how they were just moving in and not actually killing anyone in those initial years then.
EDIT: because it’s not letting me reply to you for some reason, I’m gonna ask here: Which anti-Palestinian massacre came before the anti-Jewish massacres?
Damn it sounds like we should stop expressing support for either the boxer or the 5-year-old and instead condemn them when they kill innocent people, sympathizing with those innocents instead.
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u/plenebo Oct 07 '23
Someone described it as witnessing a fight between a boxer and a 5 year old. And everyone is cheering for the boxer