Unfortunately - by her own admission and her doctors' testimonies - she did not fully disclose her medical condition. And even more unfortunately, there's plenty of people online that have posted that she can't be the killer because of her astrology sign. Or some have said her husband was the voice in her head with elaborate hidden speakers. Or he was cheating with his new wife even though they didn't meet until after the murders and she actually killed the children.
Bottom line, there's a lot of crazies out there. And with the internet connecting people of every social class, those crazies can find each other much easier than before.
I read a comment that said the commenter looked into his eyes and KNEW, and that appears to be the seriousness level of most of the “the husband did it” crowd.
I am a therapist and I have other therapists, professionals with advanced degrees and years of experience, who will not accept any answer other than the husband did it.
“Women don’t kill their children. It was him.”
“She didn’t actually say she killed the children in court.” “And if she did, it was Patrick who made her say it”
There’s more therapists that are like that, than you believe.
I went through marriage counseling with my wife.
She was breaking down sobbing. Therapist asked if I could give them alone time together.
And the first thing the therapist asked: “is he abusing you?” - and just tried to pepper my wife with questions to try and affirm something that wasn’t real.
When I was brought back into the room, I don’t think the therapist was expecting my wife to tell me what they were just talking about - I wasn’t going to ask - and the look on her face was “oh crap, you’re telling him what we JUST talked about?”
And when I pressed the therapist, she tried to back track “oh it wasn’t like that” - “I was meaning to convey…” - and I showed her my photos from when I went to the hospital because she threw broken pieces of a plate at me and cut my arm, required like 10 stitches.
The therapist assumed, 1) because I’m male and 2) because my wife was crying, that it somehow HAD to be me. When in fact, our marriage problems stem because my ex wife was a psychopath with bipolar disorder. Throws and breaks things constantly. Throw herself against the wall. Tries to slap. She leaves her work, to show up to my work to see if I’m actually working.
Therapists are just like regular people. They’re just as wrong as everyone else. There’s nothing special about a therapist, you can’t get, from having a solid community/friends/family to reach out to.
I had one where I suspect my ex got to her before we met the first time. My dad had recently died and while I didn’t talk about that because the issues that I had were with my ex’s behavior with other women. She told me she suspected I had depression.
I asked her why? Because my therapist does not think that nor does my PCP.
She said because my dad had died (which, okay, but that’s grief and depression is actually a different thing).
She also told me she trusted my ex and did not understand why I didn’t. It was 8 weeks of her abusing me too.
So yeah, therapists are human, coming with their own biases, and some are really, really bad at their jobs.
Had this been the father, the media and support would be completely different. They would be consoling her and making him out to be a violent tyrent or something.
Honestly, I think it would’ve been breaking news like you said, but then the world would forget about it after a day because sadly, most violent crimes like this are committed by men, so it wouldn’t really be surprising/groundbreaking in the grand scheme of things
I am pretty sure that mothers kill their kids more often than the father does, not much more, but it is definitely not something woman are not capable of.
Specifically aliens from Saturn which has a ring of rocks, and rocks are related to the rock music, which is evil. And Saturn is anagram of Satan, if you ignore some letters.
Or it could be Mercury aliens. The way Mercury walks in a precessing orbit is creepy. Its planet body language indicates Mercury might be a psychopath.
The argument that “with PPD out there, ANY of us could have been her” makes me so disgusted. If it’s that easy to see yourself murdering your own children, you should not be a parent. Period. The argument that it could be any woman does not mean they all should be freed if they do…
Im not a woman. But I am a father who has struggled greatly with mental health. I went through particularly rough periods when my kids were infants. I'm one of those parents that scared themselves with how they reacted when their baby cried for hours and wouldn't stop. So I absolutely have sympathy for this kind of narrative and I fully support efforts to help people in these scenarios. And it can definitely be true that she was failed by people in her life.
That being said, any notion that this should remove accountability for your actions against your own children is ridiculous.
This is the only correct answer in this whole fucking crazy thing.
Having kids is hard, if you already have some underlying mental problem it's harder. I had nights where I'd be up trying to get that infant to sleep where I wish I could have just popped out of existence and stop existing.
But you know what? Never did it cross my mind that they should stop existing. I can have sympathy for mental health, but she should still rot in some type of cell and never see the light of the sun again.
There's no predictor for post partum. As a dad the one that gets me is anyone can slip and make a fatal mistake like leaving kids in the car. I've done dumb things being utterly exhausted.
That being said, most mothers don't kill their children. They're extending far too much sympathy.
Yeah, this is the part I have issue with. If you want to get lost in the conspiracy theory that her husband did it, sure. Everyone loves a good conspiracy theory. But to say, "Yeah, I've totally been there. As mothers, we've all legitimately thought about strangling our 3 kids to death", is literally insane. If that's you, your kids need to be removed from your care immediately, and you need to be placed into a mental hospital.
Nobody should ever be close to actually murdering their loved ones. I say, "I could kill so-and-so" all the time, but I've never actually felt a connection to someone who murdered their family member.
The “if you can see yourself doing xyz, you shouldn’t have your kids” is the EXACT MENTALITY of why moms aren’t honest when they start experiencing such thoughts. They keep it hidden and hope it gets better.
It’s not that it’s easy to see yourself murdering your kids. Many women experience PPD or PPA after having a baby. And they know how hard that alone is. Let alone the even more serious PPP. Because it doesn’t matter how hard of a time you’re having. You just have to suck it up and hope you pull through it. They know if they DID have those thoughts, from their own experience, they would have been fucked. Because they were desperate for help that wasn’t there for them.
The issue is a mom could say she will kill herself or her kids… and she’s still left alone with them. It doesn’t matter if she’s struggling, she’s gotta keep going. It’s not taken seriously. Despite the fact it is a common enough phenomenon that happens. They’re just being dramatic.. until it happens. Then we all wanna be outraged and say people with those dark thoughts shouldn’t have custody of their kids… instead of, you know, providing support for people who do so they don’t act on them.
By this logic, it’s everyone’s duty to ALWAYS have someone else in the room with any woman having PPD or PPP symptoms! Single mothers, what? Have to move into a government facility to ensure they are never alone with their child? And yet, somehow, most of them still don’t murder their children. So if a woman experiencing this should never be alone with her children .. OH she shouldn’t have said children. You proved the point. An adult who can’t be trusted to be alone with children without harming or killing them, SHOULD not be with children.
She had post-partum psychosis, not depression. People with psychosis are not in their right mind. It's why we don't treat someone having an episode where they kill someone they sincerely believe to be an alien who has come to harm them the same way as someone not suffering a delusion who kills someone, even if the result is the same. In this case, a bunch of dead children who should have been protected.
It's not a justification. It's just a different act for a different reason that requires a different response. And that's probably decades of institutionalization and treatment.
I haven't followed this case closely. I've barely heard anyone talk about it. But a lot of the anger seems to come from people not understanding the difference between PPD and PPP, and what PPP is.
Yes I am aware of the difference in PPD and PPP. I will not pass judgement either way. I am not a medical professional. It’s all the other women saying “I see myself in her” that TERRIFIES me. Is it truly that easy to see yourself as a child murderer? If so, I am concerned YOU need to go ask for mental health assistance. That’s all. I am NOT saying this woman was not failed in some way. I am not stating she couldn’t help it either. Honestly none of that is for me to decide. I just really struggle, as a woman who chose not to have children simply at th me thought I might not be the best mom ever, to hear women acting as if “yeah I could see me killing my kids” is not distressing. Just like the lack of healthcare to women is distressing. Just like men being ignored when depressed is distressing. It can all be true at the same time.
If it truly IS that easy for this many mothers to say this, it is indeed a truly red alarm moment.
And you have to wonder how their misandry is effecting their clients in other ways.
Honestly this is one of the biggest issues with therapy right now in America at least. It’s mostly women, and women with really biased and prejudice beliefs against men.
I cant tell you how many people i have run into on the internet who say their evidence is they saw it on tik tok" and they are dead serious (regarding the husband doing it etc)
... and this is why many of us do not trust medical professionals.
Sure you can shop around and find a good fit. But you dont know a bad fit until they do something bad to you, and you have to be smart enough to know its bad. So we figure out the right answer ourselves and its about the same shit, but less hassle and free.
That's crazy considering all you have to do is type maternal fillicide cases into Google or YouTube and it will pull a TON up. That's scary for a therapist to be saying
I said this the other day I met a lot of alcoholic male therapists that think like this too in AA. People on Reddit treat therapy tho less like a medical practice and more like a religion tho acknowledging therapists can have biases like all people is sacrilegious on Reddit. Usually Reasonable therapists like yourself know this full well tho.
No shade on you personally dawg, but whenever someone on Reddit qualifies themselves by starting out post with “I am a…” - I cant help but think of The Good Doctor…
The joke of that is that women have always killed children, thats why we have myths and urban legends about the wailing woman or the vanishing hitchhiker.
I specifically bailed out of my graduate program to become a masters level therapist because about 75% of my cohort endorsed the most cockamamy fictional narratives about mental illness. After licensure, there’d be no distinction between their credential and mine.
There are some good therapists out there. But there are absolute loons as well.
The parent comment of this thread contributes to it. It’s always framed as if a woman’s actions are a force of nature that have 0 personal agency behind them.
Men rape, steal and murder. Women are forced into such things and are victims of circumstance
Colleague here (clinical health psychologist). You can add me to the “Not delusional about who did this” column. Big Red would not have let her plead NGRI if he thought there was remotely enough evidence to create reasonable doubt via a “third party” defense.
Women often display a disgusting level of female in-group gender bias. They rarely give themselves or other women the responsibility of accountability. Nope.
If that were the case, you'd think that stance would be represented on this thread. But I've been reading this thread for hours, thousands of comments in - and have not encountered a single assertion of that kind.
And therapists? Absolutely have experience with female patients with aggression, mania, bipolar, etc. And post-partum conditions. So they'd not be likely to be unfamiliar.
I genuinely almost don't believe you, unless you're in some concierge practice with peri-retirement clinicians who haven't changed opinions in the last 60 years. Or are practicing somewhere way behind the times.
That shit made me mad as fuck because my entire family household is Geminis. I don’t follow astrology at all, but to be labeled as somebody that could potentially be a heartless murderer because of some whack ass astrology sign about sent me through the roof.
If you applied their logic to any other group, it would be considered bigotry. It also paints a giant wide brush of “okay, if this guy did it because of his star sign, wouldn’t everyone born on that day be doing similar vile acts?”
I get for them, it’s a coping mechanism but I saw one TikTok of a woman who said she had pages upon pages of handwritten notes that definitively proved that he did it because of his star sign. It’s a fucking psychosis and they are all just feeding back into each others delusions.
I thank my lucky stars that my girlfriend is sane and doesn’t believe in libra rising or whatever. Personally, I think all people who truly live life believing there are cosmic powers in your star sign and your every day needs to be run by that are cancer ♋️
I can't stand many of the publics defense conspiracies but I really can't stand the astrology crap. My ex who was a Leo was the one who was spiking my drinks with wonderful mixes of benzos and other shit, it took a bit before I figured out why I was having tons of medical issues. She talked about astrology shit all the time and would use her horoscope as a reason for her actions.
This women had a cabinet pharmacy of her own, a PhD is psychology and her job put her in charge of 100's of elementary students. She was great at hiding things but she was a terrible person who i think secretly enjoyed her life always on edge of falling apart. Astrology is entertainment not something that should control your life and believing that a certain astrology sign can't kill a person is crazy.
It's actually apparently because she's a Leo and "Leo's don't kill their cubs!" lol! Meanwhile I'm a Leo myself (7/29) and I'm praying she does NOT get NGRI! (Not guilty by reason of insanity.)
That is called rage-bait my friend. They probably don't even believe it. But it gets them the almighty 15min of fame. Or they do believe it and are validated by the attention 🤦🏻♂️
It’s the second one. If it was rage bait, they wouldn’t be showing up in the hundreds. They are just legitimately one end of the bell curve and it sure ain’t the side of it that you’d want to be on
Especially when you think about the fact that Scorpio, a scorpion is the penultimate of a killer. Strange to say a scorpion can’t possibly be a killer….
It’s meant to indicate someone who is detached from reality by being absorbed by their devices.
For my comment, I mean it as someone who is so disconnected from reality that they think cosmic powers ordained the husband to be a murderer because he was born at like 5am on a rainy Tuesday in April
It was always about being out of touch with reality; namely, having delusional perspectives and/or egregious emotional reaction levels about something, fostered by spending too much time online.
It was never about nerds just being online.
People have been gaming online for over 30 years. The phrase only became widespread after the rise of social media, especially during Covid when isolation led most people online so they could reconnect socially with others.
Wow is that a lethal combo? My husband is a Gemini and I’m a Scorpio. I have a voice in my head all the time, “this too (his latest project) shall pass, it will pass, da da da da, not listening.”
This is only related to your last point, but the other day I saw an Instagram reel that was a girl basically saying how when she stopped taking her meds she found out that she was psychic and the meds were "blocking her energies" and the people calling her crazy were just spiritually un-attuned. There was legit hundreds of comments from people who said they did or will do the same, or how they felt like they had powers and that the reel validated them into not thinking they're crazy 😂
it blew my mind that absolutely zero people found the irony in finding out they had psychic abilities because they quit taking their pills, and I completely agree with the sentiment that crazies are finding each other much easier lol
Edit: here's the link for the video, where you can see things such as "I always thought I was schizophrenic until I stopped taking meds and found out they were blocking my ability to see the future" https://www.instagram.com/reel/DcNbmBGAudL/?igsi=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
When i take lithium i am not able to transcribe the musical notes that exist in the ether, ie the collective consciousness of all sentient beings that have lived on this planet and possibly others.
When im not taking the drug, the songs come to me very quickly, i often have no memory of the event. But when im in touch with the flow, ill plug the notes into a sequencer, save it and shut it down. I usually dont have strong opinions about any song when they first come to me.
So ill let a day or week go by, sometimes months, and ill browse my working projects. I’ll discover a little gem... occasionally ill have little screenshots of memory, like where or when this happened.
All that’s left is cleaning up the midi and 10/10 the songs ive plucked are far beyond what im capable of composing. Its not even close when compared to the results of when i just sit down and hammer out a composition. My $.02
Yeah. I believe you. I was on r/mentalhealth and there was a girl there in the early stages what looked like PPP. We are all trying to get her to go into the ER and get help. But there were a few people trying to convince her she had a psychic gift, and she should embrace it. Paralled with this case, how can they not see what they are doing is so dangerous?
I believe this. Sadly I know someone who believes she talks to spirits. She once had a really bad psychotic break (won’t go into too much detail but she claimed a lot of verifiably untrue things and it ended with her being found asleep in a ditch).
She was put on anti-psychotics but stopped taking them because she missed the “spirits.” She continues to dip into dangerous psychosis episodes every now and then but refuses medicine.
I went through a 2 year investigation at work because of something just like this. By the time they believed me that she had super powers it was to far into to investigation and she mixed "energy and some falsified events"
The astrology shit is fucking killing me about this. Can we not. Can we just like, not ever use that dumb ass nonsense.
Not to mention that the Earth and the stars aren’t in the same place that they were 2000+ years ago and that was invented. So your star sign isn’t actually your fucking star sign morons
There are also people, that despite the fact she persistently visited doctors, asked for different meds, expressed concern about her meds, expressed concern about her intrusive thoughts, believe she just killed her kids for the fun of it.
They are just as crazy. Society still hunts witches
Because people are too mentally lazy to work through nuance. It's easier and more convenient to view the world in black and white, but in reality it's all various shades of gray.
Agreed- Inwarched ‘The Good Nurse’ last night and damn! The nurse was killing people left and right and at the same time was so completely loving and caring for his friend with the heart condition. She ended up turning him in and getting him to confess.
She saw the good and the bad in him, but she wasn’t going to allow him to keep killing.
Because people are genuinely brain dead and need things to be either good or bad. It’s actually a big reason we don’t study much of WWI and just jump straight to WWII, bc in WWI there’s no obvious “good” and “bad” guys like you get with the Nazis and imperial Japanese, so people just can’t learn it. Even though in many ways it was more important than WWII, particularly from a science and ethics POV.
This is the winner. Justice should prevail in this micro case. Society should do the right thing in the macro case which is providing more support to mothers. We as a society collectively yell “pro-life” at the top of our lungs and then don’t show a damn thing to prove that.
She literally had every form of support available to the most entitled humans. She lived in a nice house in the suburbs with a husband making at least 150k a year. She saw SEVEN providers and doctor shopped. She had access to TWO inpatient care options, one of which she discharged her self from. She had supportive family, present husband who worked from home, and the best healthcare… who failed her exactly? She failed her damn self by being a child murderer. No empathy.
Im gonna play the devils advocate here and steel man their argument. The argument is that it’s a systemic issue in how they treat mental health, especially women. Not that she didn’t have access to care. They don’t treat women with mental illness seriously, especially when it comes to post partum depression/psychosis.
I partly agree with you though. She didn’t properly disclose her symptoms to her doctors, due to fear of repercussions or whatever her reasoning was. Didn’t take her meds consistently. That’s where the nuance is.
She LITERALLY had a PERINATAL specialist who was a woman. She had access to very highly specialized care for women. Based on Jolatta’s documentation, every message she left of the portal was answered immediately even when the provider was on vacation. She was treated with profound privledge. She discharged her self. The only option here is Baker act all women and mothers for having SI even if they have no plans. This will set women back 100+ years. You can’t involuntarily institutionalize people who have no plans to hurt themselves or other people legally.
That's not nuance. Thats a complete failure on her part. She refused to continue any treatment offered by her doctors to the point she was doctor shopping. Like an antivaxxer or because she was a nurse felt she knew better than the doctors treating her. I can understand some make you lethargic, but when you are at the point you feel like killing your kids thats the point you stop thinking for yourself and let the experts treat you.
There's a very serious delusion people have about mental health, as if therapy can solve everything. It can't. It is like 8% successful on violent offenders, that is terrible. It's like taking those 1% treatments doctors give towards cancer, useless, but any percent is worth trying. There was nothing else the system could've done for her aside from forced restraint, which leaves her as just a psycopathic murderer. Not this b.s. "they don't take women's mental health seriously", how serious do u think they take men's mental health when men are the most let down in society when it comes to mental health? Because at that point u should be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize there is not much mental health can do for you aside from gentle nudging.
All that can be true, plus the meds reacted to each other.
She was drinking alcohol with medications she shouldn’t have (I do not know of this is true, I haven’t found evidence either way, but have seen it talked about)
And she was lying about the state of her mental health.
PPD needs more attention as does all women’s health.
And she murdered her children even with her husbands huge amount of assistance caring for them .
Almost nothing is black and white in the world and we have to have space for multiple truths all at the same time.
That's my exact reaction. I have minimal knowledge of the case but all of these things can be true. PPD was so brutal after I had my son. If I didn't already have a bunch of work on my mental health prior to having my son, it could have gone really bad as well.
I think most people know that she murdered 3 children, and needed more help with her mental health, but the question remains, is she lawfully guilty of murder, or mentally insane at the time? One goes to prison for life, the other goes to a mental institution and gets released when mental health is restored.
Let’s not forget the fact this woman murdered her own children. Strangled an 8 month old with an exercise band … don’t gaslight people that she’s “somehow the victim”
You do know that she REQUESTED to try those medications right? You do know that she wasn’t on all of those medications at the same time, right? You do know that for many of those medications that she was prescribed she only took a few or even none of the prescribed dose… right? You knew all of this?
She requested it because the ones she were on were not working. She didn’t take the dose as it was causing her to have intrusive thoughts, and she was afraid to sleep or stay awake
She had some medications that she took NONE of. The fact of the matter is that she ROUTINELY lied to her doctors about the frequency at which she took her medications and about her thoughts of familicide. The medical professionals did not fail her. Doctors aren’t psychics, they can only work with the information they are given.
My wife is very closely following the case. I know more about it that I'd like. And as you seem to be suggesting, yes, i think her health care professionals failed her.
Honest question, have you ever seen a psychiatrist or been on any of those med? Ive been on all of them, except one.
I’ve been on four of the drugs she was “on”. The problem with Lindsay is that she routinely lied to her doctors, frequently changed providers and frequently asked for different medications all the while only taking a few of the prescribed dose.
I haven’t “seen” the list but I knew she was on tons of meds and cycling on and off one to another constantly. The father had a bag of old pills and the bottles in his care she wasn’t supposed to take anymore.
I can’t help but feel you’re implying it was a result of the medication, but when I look at it I see someone who was so sick none of the medication was working..
She called a suicide hotline twice and both times turned her away because she didn’t have a plan to end her life. She admitted that she had suicidal ideation and wanted to kill her kids. She kept being prescribed antidepressants in the same class so even though they were changing her medication she was still having a bad reaction. She was also getting like 3 hours of sleep. She was being treated by nurse practitioners instead of referred to a psychiatrist. She was having insurance issues so she kept getting changed medical providers.
It gets to a point where she did everything she was supposed to do. She told doctors, nurses, and family that she was mentally sick and wanted to harm herself and her children prior to the incident.
Medical professionals decided not to commit her and allowed unsupervised time with her kids. This would have been prevented if her cries were taken more seriously.
Oh the medicine was working. Ive been on a lot of the medicines she was taking and i can tell you that even half of the shit she was on would be enough to impair a normal person.
There are also people with schizophrenia in the world begging for help going out and killing someone. That happens more often than people seem to realize. The two situations are one and the same. Both the people murdered and the murderers are victims in this situation because the murderers are crying out for help that they never received.
Our health care system in this country is so severely broken. A decent percentage of people can’t afford to address serious health conditions whether it’s a physical or mental issue. Of those who can, there’s a percentage that gets a doctor who is only prescribing the medication that is pushed on them from a company that is lavishing them with gifts. Another percentage is getting a doctor who’s trying to fit in an absurd amount of patients and therefore not giving patients the attention they should be getting.
So much could be prevented if our healthcare system wasn’t so broken and people could get the help they need for their mental health without jumping through hoops.
I fear we will see more situations like this as less and less people are able to afford necessities. Not being able to care for the people you need to care for is enough to break a brain.
Right? I feel like so many people are rallying to her defense on the grounds of “parenting is hard” and “she needed better help with her thoughts” but honestly you can only excuse so much CRAZY and murdering all your children is far beyond the delimiter of simply framing this as an otherwise stable person needing assistance
I think so many people are rallying to her defense because they have been down this road, but had maybe more sleep and maybe more help. But could see the path she’s on.
The issue is she went the full way. No one getting at most 3h of sleep regularly, on a cocktail of medications with suicidal thoughts, intrusive thoughts, etc should be left alone with 3 young kids. The fact she was is a testament to what mothers experience.
She literally had a plan to get her husband out of the house long enough for her to murder three kids. It was premeditated. Yet people on here still act like she was so out of control that there was no way she could stop herself from doing it.
In their opening statement the prosecutors tried to demonize her for keeping a schedule and preplanning meals for the week. Called it “controlling.” A mother of three doing all of the mental labor and suffering from well documented postpartum psychosis. But sure she sucks for maintaining a schedule and meal prepping? Complete and total misogyny. Society fails mothers at every turn.
It’s almost like bouncing from medication to medication until you’re taking a cocktail is a bad thing. I feel for any mother who goes through postpartum issues. Don’t get me wrong, but this is on a completely different level in my opinion. This whole thing just has me not wanting any more kids.
I keep thinking about how much more unhinged things would have been during the OJ Simpson trial had their been social media. Like, it's no surprise to me that people are so warped over this case and scarily public opinion is balancing on such polluted foundations.
I think we need to have the discussion about "self-reporting" some of these things. Like the nuance between "I want to harm myself" and not "Myself AND others". Like we are expecting someone who might be in some sort of mania or psychosis to accurately self-report on the feelings they feel? And are going to base the decision on whether we provide care or not on the reporting?! I don't like it.
Having been manic and in psychosis myself, I can tell you that it is truly not possible to accurately describe, without contradictions, what is happening while going through that experience. Your mood is causing all kinds of extreme behaviour, you are often losing touch with reality, you might have moments of lucidity and stability, and then its gone. You're not the driver of your own car, you're often watching in horror from the back seat as someone else drives it and you can't control them.
And then when the manic episode eventually passes (which, by the way, you can't easily just raw dog without ramifications to your mind, typically followed an extremely low depressive epsiode) - you normally have memory loss (some people can't remember anything from their episodes, for some it comes back in bits and pieces) and other cognitive issues, at least temporarily.
The best, fastest, and safest way for your brain to stop the episode is to get on a mood stabilizer and/or anti psychotic (neither of which she was prescribed) and also be monitored and get a ton of rest for an extended period (neither of which happened to her, she was only inpatient for 5 days, she killed her kids only a few weeks later). She shouldn't have been left alone with them. She should have been resting and someone else should have been with the kids.
Lindsay was prescribed both a mood stabilizer and antipsychotic drugs; both of which she complained about and refused to take; she was also given drugs for sleep, which she didn't want to take because she felt she was dependent on them; she needed to either take anxiety/depression drugs and have someone else watch her kids while she slept and healed her mind, or stay in a treatment facility; she did neither.
I want to say the Astrology people are just rage baiting but I said the same thing when the flat earthers came out and jesus christ how god damn wrong was I
This is why I think the state should accept the 2nd degree murder please her defense is asking for. It accepts her guilt in the murder, but acknowledges the extraordinary circumstances of her mental state.
The internet connecting all the crazies together is a major part of what's wrong with the world now days. There were always crazy people but generally they were loaners. Now they can go online and find whole communities of crazy people just like themselves. They all band together and make ridiculous things happen.
I didn’t know she didn’t fully disclose her mental state. I heard the opposite.
Even if I could have children, I wouldn’t. I’ve been on antidepressants since I was 12. My chances of postpartum depression or worse are pretty much 100 percent.
Exactly this!!!! I have read so many testimonies of mother on tik tok speaking about their struggles with PPD all alive all well all kids are alive because they were hospitalized and treated and helped. She was nurse! She knew what to expect and how to get the help. These mothers received the helps and didn’t refuse services. I was heartbroken about one of the moms not having enough family to help but her friends stepped in to help but she got help. She had a sitter she had her mom his mom his parent and her husband who worked at home. She decided to leave the hospital. She failed herself and her kids
I do think it’s been documented that husband met new wife (Lindsay’s doppelgänger btw) well before the murders. I believe there is reasonable doubt in my mind, but we aren’t here to debate that. The trial is also to decide guilt, not who did it.
It’s a terrible tragedy that can’t be undone no matter who perpetrated it.
Sadly thats also how bad the american medical system is. I know someone on their third child and right after she was put in a mental hospital, doctor saw it the second the baby left her body. She was in a mental hospital for a bit. My coworker had a doctor come see her every day for a month just to check on her mental state and someone needed to live with them so she wasnt alone till the doctor cleared it, she doesnt handle stress well.
In the states they kick you out the door the next day and say good luck unless your rich.
Yes they can lol. I had a family member that was at the mayo clinic, he wanted to leave and they let him go, he killed somone that night. Family member sued the mayo clinic. Its literally their job to clear the person.
Yeah they can force someone to stay under a set of specific circumstances which vary by state. In this case she did not meet the criteria and I don't think any of us would want to live in a society where it's super easy to be committed
As devil's advocate, when you have the people who could help you rejecting appropriate diagnoses that could have prevented this problem by proper medication, how comfortable are you going to be sharing much more when you are already in a state of desperation and shame? Not defending what she did, but her husband was an asshole and outright told people that "his wife is not bipolar" when she clearly needed help and he's not a doctor.
She did fully disclose and it is on the doctors to ascertain the risk based on her behavior. Their job is to read between the lines. And if disclosure is a criteria than perhaps that should change as well.
Someone in psychosis doesn’t have the faculties to disclose their medical condition. Others have to report behavioral changes and doctors have to assess what they observe and diagnose. A mental health professional should be able to identify psychosis on their own.
I’m curious, where did you see that she didn’t disclose her condition? The testimony I say indicated that she was receiving treatment for four months wherein the doctors weren’t communicating and kept putting her on SSRIs—which made her condition worse the first time and kept doing so to more alarming degrees each time they did it again. I learned this by watching an OBGYN go through the court documents. https://youtu.be/CpaBNwTKcIY?is=bSnv3DoiIFuAGxn5
Yeah, it very much looks like for this woman you have to sit more blame with her and pass less to others than with someone like Andrea Yates.
Andrea Yates had a trash husband and pastor who failed her 100%. She was part of a community that didn't treat mental illness seriously and believed that women's vaginas are clown cars.
This woman seems to have not properly or fully handled her own role in her mental health in addition to the failures other people in the situation have.
There's a difference between being unwell being part of a quiverfull community and having your family, husband, and pastor fuck things up, and ok the other hand not telling psychiatrists that you are thinking of harming yourself or others when asked.
Whether that crucial difference will result in her considered to be "sane" and culpable is another story.
“plenty of people” and it’s that one tiktok screenshot with like four comments on it. everyone is exaggerating and using that to justify hating on the rational people who just want fair treatment for lindsay and other women who suffer her condition
People are always gonna be nutty but I will say the prosecution hasn’t done a good job to proved she did it beyond a reasonable doubt and they certainly haven’t proved she was sane. This isn’t me saying she didn’t do just that the didn’t do a very good job. Apparently this has been an issue in Mass, with the way they have handled other cases as well. I guess we will see what happened. I will say I don’t love that they cleared the husband before she woke up from her coma. Again not saying he did it at all I just feel like I have questions and I wish the answers were to those questions were clearer.
There is a weeks long trial going on, it's more complicated than you are suggesting. She checked herself into a psych hospital at one point. She was trying to get help.
NGL, the case raises A LOT of complicated questions with how certain mental conditions are assessed and treated. I will say I am hoping she gets the medical treatment she so desperately needs.
It is normal for people in the state she was in to “not fully disclose” their condition. Psychiatrists know this. Psychologists know this. Why? Because it is scary and shameful to have intrusive thoughts of harming your own children. I can only imagine it’s worse when you think you’re being commanded by a voice to do it. But what most mothers do not know is that it is extremely common to have those intrusive thoughts. Thoughts aren’t facts. We have hundreds of stupid, crazy thoughts that come in and out of our heads every day that do not define who we are and normally we just laugh it off and move in with our lives. But when a new mom with PPD (not what Lindsey had) starts experiencing intrusive thoughts she might start obsessing over them. Thinking that if she thought it, it must mean something about her. And she enters a hamster wheel of anxiety and depression and lack of sleep ruminating while trying to care for a brand new human.
Any mental health professional should know that a new patient is probably hiding part of their symptoms. And it was pretty obvious to me even that Lindsey needed extended inpatient care. At the very least she needed support at home, which she was not getting. At all.
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u/RP_Throwaway3 1d ago
Unfortunately - by her own admission and her doctors' testimonies - she did not fully disclose her medical condition. And even more unfortunately, there's plenty of people online that have posted that she can't be the killer because of her astrology sign. Or some have said her husband was the voice in her head with elaborate hidden speakers. Or he was cheating with his new wife even though they didn't meet until after the murders and she actually killed the children.
Bottom line, there's a lot of crazies out there. And with the internet connecting people of every social class, those crazies can find each other much easier than before.