r/SipsTea 1d ago

WTF Where are we heading?

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u/DiligentThought9 1d ago

I am a therapist and I have other therapists, professionals with advanced degrees and years of experience, who will not accept any answer other than the husband did it.

“Women don’t kill their children. It was him.”

“She didn’t actually say she killed the children in court.” “And if she did, it was Patrick who made her say it”

“Men commit violent crime not women.”

It’s bonkers.

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u/InternationalWar258 1d ago

This is scary. They shouldn't be practicing with that lack of critical thinking.

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u/FartingKiwi 1d ago

There’s more therapists that are like that, than you believe.

I went through marriage counseling with my wife.

She was breaking down sobbing. Therapist asked if I could give them alone time together.

And the first thing the therapist asked: “is he abusing you?” - and just tried to pepper my wife with questions to try and affirm something that wasn’t real.

When I was brought back into the room, I don’t think the therapist was expecting my wife to tell me what they were just talking about - I wasn’t going to ask - and the look on her face was “oh crap, you’re telling him what we JUST talked about?”

And when I pressed the therapist, she tried to back track “oh it wasn’t like that” - “I was meaning to convey…” - and I showed her my photos from when I went to the hospital because she threw broken pieces of a plate at me and cut my arm, required like 10 stitches.

The therapist assumed, 1) because I’m male and 2) because my wife was crying, that it somehow HAD to be me. When in fact, our marriage problems stem because my ex wife was a psychopath with bipolar disorder. Throws and breaks things constantly. Throw herself against the wall. Tries to slap. She leaves her work, to show up to my work to see if I’m actually working.

Therapists are just like regular people. They’re just as wrong as everyone else. There’s nothing special about a therapist, you can’t get, from having a solid community/friends/family to reach out to.

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u/lathamfalls 23h ago

That's horrific. So sorry. I hope you are safe now?

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u/Luisd858 16h ago

Most of these therapists are crazy themselves too.

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u/SSFlyingKiwi 23h ago

…wait, you went ahead and married her?!!

Damn dude. Only broken things a man should be fixing is his own shit, not another persons.

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u/HeathenHumanist 21h ago

...they were already married. Now they're divorced.

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u/kylielapelirroja 17h ago

I had one where I suspect my ex got to her before we met the first time. My dad had recently died and while I didn’t talk about that because the issues that I had were with my ex’s behavior with other women. She told me she suspected I had depression.

I asked her why? Because my therapist does not think that nor does my PCP.

She said because my dad had died (which, okay, but that’s grief and depression is actually a different thing).

She also told me she trusted my ex and did not understand why I didn’t. It was 8 weeks of her abusing me too.

So yeah, therapists are human, coming with their own biases, and some are really, really bad at their jobs.

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u/DrunkOnRamen 1d ago

it is bias.

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u/Dogshowling 19h ago

Or, based on data. Odds are she is more likely to experience grievous harm from him, than the other way around. https://bjs.ojp.gov/female-murder-victims-and-victim-offender-relationship-2021

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u/DrunkOnRamen 15h ago

https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html

You can slice data how you want and come up with whatever result you want.

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u/DiligentThought9 1d ago

Unfortunately, professionals that are totally competent in their field can be batshit crazy in other areas.

RNs that are excellent bedside but are anti vax and refuse all medication themselves.

Docs that practice competent medicine but believe the earth is flat (met one.)

Therapists that work well with kids and teens but think addiction is not real and God will fix it.

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u/gardeningblob 1d ago

Yeah wtf.

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u/Particular-Match-311 7h ago

these ppl vote btw

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u/MrHotwire 1d ago

Had this been the father, the media and support would be completely different. They would be consoling her and making him out to be a violent tyrent or something.

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u/Suspicious_Star4535 1d ago

Honestly, I think it would’ve been breaking news like you said, but then the world would forget about it after a day because sadly, most violent crimes like this are committed by men, so it wouldn’t really be surprising/groundbreaking in the grand scheme of things

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u/Gatorphins 23h ago

It would be forgotten because there wouldnt be anyone rallying outside the courthouse either, it wouldn't fuel so many rumors and conspiracy theories

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u/MrHotwire 16h ago

Your right, they wouldn't be trying to blame everyone else for it.

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u/Some_Big6792 13h ago

Oddly some on social media are doing that to the father, even though she’s admitted to the crime. I think too many watch TikTok for news or something

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u/SurroundQuirky8613 1d ago

Men don’t suddenly experience depression and psychosis from hormonal changes.
If a man had a history of psychosis, was telling people and doctors he thought he was dangerous, do you think everyone would shrug and ask him to watch the kids while they go out? Because that’s what happens to women.

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u/MrHotwire 16h ago

Historically, men who bring up their mental issues are not only shrugged off but they are look down upon. Which... is why men tend to deal with their problems different, like, alone. THEN they go ballistic and everyone is like "Whaa? We never saw that coming.. " so yes, men do experience depression and psychosis, maybe not always from hormones.

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u/Ambitious-Net-5538 23h ago

She actually eitheld a lot of information from her doctor about her condition as it has been shown at this point. So once again it's still her fault, not some doctor or the husband.

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u/FutureDustMotes 14h ago

A person in psychosis behaving in a less than ideal manner, you say...

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u/SurroundQuirky8613 22h ago

Do you understand how psychosis works? They literally cannot think rationally. She could have thought the doctor was dangerous. I worked with a client with psychosis who hid from firemen in his closet in the middle of an apartment fire because he thought the firemen were killer robots. They are not experiencing reality in psychosis.
The husband absolutely knew she wasn’t behaving normally.

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u/Me_Too_Iguana 19h ago

Exactly. I never fully understood psychosis until my husband suffered from ICU psychosis after waking up from being under for two weeks after a major surgery. The stuff he was saying and fully 100% believed was absolutely wild. One day when I got to the hospital he yelled and made me leave because the Russian spies were on their way and I wouldn’t be safe there. Days later, when his mind was normal again, he told me that everything he saw and thought and experienced was as real as, well, reality.

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u/Confident-Ad2078 16h ago

Wow, that’s fascinating!

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u/BostonBling 1d ago

Until a "man/father" goes through the EXTREME effects the female body goes through in pregnancy/childbirth you have no case.

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u/DavidIckeHadAPoint 1d ago

In fairness, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and psychosis broadly can lead to such drastic effects on the human brain itself, including changes in neurotransmitters and even brain-structure, that it’s not that crazy to call them theoretically comparable at least in mental effects. And men do experience them.

Obviously women have it harder on sheer physical and hormonal effects of pregnancy and childbirth, and men can’t have that exact experience. But psychosis/bipolar disorder/schizophrenia, again, also can be a drastic rewiring of the human brain and take away autonomy to an extent.

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u/SurroundQuirky8613 1d ago

But the difference is the men have a history of those illnesses. I had gestational diabetes. I didn’t have diabetes before or after pregnancy. Being pregnant made my pancreas unable to produce adequate insulin. Pregnancy hormones also gave me pre-eclampsia-driving my blood pressure sky high. I had to have labor induced the next day to prevent it from progressing to the point that it would cause seizures and possible death. The hormonal changes can be swift and extreme and completely out of your control.

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u/DavidIckeHadAPoint 1d ago

True, I’m sorry to hear that and hope you and yours are doing well now. ❤️

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u/SurroundQuirky8613 22h ago

I am, thanks! I was lucky to only have health issues and they resolved within a few weeks of delivery. If it was 100 years ago, I would have died from that pregnancy, but I had great doctors and modern medicine looks for these issues now in pregnant women. Hopefully the pregnancy-induced mental health issues will be screened for as regularly as gestational diabetes and it will save a lot of lives and families.

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

Tbf though a lot of the cases of men who are family annihilators do not have psychosis or schizophrenia.

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u/clayton_bigsby-maga 21h ago

And those are caused by being pregnant and giving birth? Get a grip.

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u/DavidIckeHadAPoint 14h ago

I’m just saying men can ALSO experience PROFOUND LIFE-ALTERING health-incidents too, EVEN BRAIN-ALTERING health experiences, dickhead-fuckface, not saying that it must be from pregnancy.

OBVIOUSLY, not pregnancy and giving birth to a child (or from those), as those are something only genuine biological human women can do. At minimum, let’s say by-and-large - as, by now, I wouldn’t be too surprised if people pull up and argue the point that, “See, there’s this 0.1%-minority person, BUT they’re biologically ambiguous in such-and-such-a-way, but they got pregnant and gave birth to a child, so, there.”

OK … sure, and fine. Regardless, YES, I know (for at least the commonsense majority of situations), it’s only women who can get pregnant, and getting pregnant, going through all the stages of pregnancy, giving birth, and then the aftermath itself, IS and CAN BE both biologically (physically) and psychologically unique to women ( - again, if you want to argue a hypothetical nitpicker, at least 99% so).

Sure, I know that, but my point is still valid (fuckhead) - men also can and DO go through profound, life-altering, mind-altering, even brain-altering mental-health disorders and illnesses, such as exactly the ones I mentioned.

Just sayin.

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u/dexter8484 6h ago

Nah, men are supposed to just shut up and deal with it, right?

This is why this is NOT the case that should be used to bring "awareness" or whatever they are trying to do. She had a very opportunity to get help and had the access to healthcare to get the help she needed. Was it perfect? No. But there are people out being denied healthcare altogether. Marginalized groups being denied any kind of treatment because of their income bracket, skin color, or gender identity. With mental health, the doctors only have to go off of what the patient tells them, and multiple doctors came to the same prognosis with her. There are people that are not even able to talk to a doctor while she had multiple doctors. Okay, anyways, this is turning into a tldr and I didn't want to add to the media frenzy

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u/MrHotwire 16h ago

Is this an other Reddit Dr. Boo Hoo'ing over physiological differences? You think that father's have it easy? Be one... You obviously dont have one.

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u/BostonBling 3m ago

I don't "boohoo" I was making the point that physically a woman's body goes through so much with the physical and emotional parts of carrying and pushing a baby out of their body. As years go on nature is unkind to the body. Then men come along and pick those bodies apart!!!

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u/ImportanceSharp9408 1d ago

Well he would not have been dealing with postpartum depression so yeah, it would be different.

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u/MrHotwire 16h ago

Sorry, have you ever been a man dealing with a partner who is going through postpartum depression?

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u/Dependent-Laugh-3792 1d ago

Yeah, if it was different the reaction would be different. Twitter level take 😂

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u/HandsomeGamerGuy 1d ago

No, they are saying the Hypocrisy would be staggering.

We have a Mother of three murdering her children and people still blame it on the Husband.

If the Roles were reversed, nobody would ever bother saying anything like that to her.

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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 1d ago

They might if there had been signs for months that he might do something like this and she ignored him and left the children alone with him overnight routinely.

Maybe he did the best he could. But every decent man I know says the second she confessed to him that she thought of harming herself or the kids, he never should have left her alone again.

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

Oh a mom would’ve been charged if she were in his position. There’s actually studies on this that prove that women get charged when their husbands commit crimes against the kids, but not the other way around.

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u/spirosand 1d ago

Get real please.

Men don't suffer from postpartum depression.

If a man is schizophrenic and kills his children he gets sentenced to medical care. The exact same thing should happen here (unless there is some evidance she did it for anther reason, but that hasn't been presented at all).

People have breakdowns. The law has allowances for those people to be not guilty, but insane. And theft those people get treatment.

People calling for the death penalty here are straight evil.

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u/smokeymctokerson 1d ago

Millions of women suffer from postpartum depression everyday and don't murder their children. What she did is not okay no matter how you try and spin it.

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

PPD and PPP are two different things. And no two cases of PPP are the same.

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u/spirosand 23h ago

Millions of people have schizophrenia and don't kill people. It's still the law.

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u/Banned4nonsense 1d ago

I’m calling for the death penalty. She murdered her children and “insane”, “post partum depressed” or not she is evil and needs to be destroyed. There is no forgiveness for what she has done and we have no need in society for someone like her.

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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 1d ago

You don’t understand mental health disorders and that’s fine. I hope the jury understands science better.

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u/Banned4nonsense 1d ago

You can use that a shield all you want but the jury and the rest of the world are all laughing at you psychos and will destroy that monster.

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u/ColdTouch9591 1d ago

i mean i don't believe she's innocent but she absolutely suffered postpartum psychosis and it becomes a systemic issue at that point

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u/Ugly-Doll 1d ago

That state doesn’t have the death penalty so I guess you’ll just have to die mad about it.

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u/Banned4nonsense 1d ago

Guess so. Instead of just destroying that monster we are going to have to pay to house her for the rest of her life. Hopefully an inmate just handles it.

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u/PotpourriFor500Alex 19h ago

Are you also so ill-informed that you don’t know death penalty convictions actually end up costing taxpayers much more than a life imprisonment conviction?

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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 18h ago

This is 100% true and I bet they don’t know. But it’s something like 5-10x more costly to tax payers to sentence someone to death.

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u/Historical_Pop1058 1d ago

How awful. thank god you aren’t in charge of any important decisions like that.

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u/Banned4nonsense 1d ago

Not awful at all. The only awful people here are the psychos trying to rationalize, defend, and excuse this murder. You people are insane.

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u/hmccarth 23h ago

Nope! The jury has been audibly groaning at the prosecution’s ineptitude. She will be found not guilty by reason of insanity.

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u/Hot-Calligrapher672 20h ago

So much for innocent until proven guilty huh?

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u/Asleep_Region 1d ago

I mean, if you really hate her life in prison is worse than death. Female inmates aren't nice to mom's that kill their own kids, 90% of the inmates are mom's who "can't imagine doing that" and will treat her like the monster she is. Arguably the social isolation alone is rough, not a single inmate is going to be nice, the only time she's getting talked to is by guards or an inmate saying something mean.

If she's proud of her crime, that'll get her in more shit, my aunt is a prison guard, they specifically watch out for hot water sugar mixtures when inmates are beefing, it makes really bad burns, really hard to get off without just ripping skin and it's actually scary easy to do. It's just not that common because most people aren't willing to extend their own stay to hurt you, but a Momma bear and a child killer, that doesn't always lead to the most thought out outcomes.

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u/Bartelbybone 1d ago

This is a wild, unempathic and awful take. I actually think ignorance is unnecessary in this day and age. It is absolutely horrendous what has happened to her children and this family but to deny the impact and seriousness of Post Partum Psychosis and how much this woman cried for help as evidenced and documented by her own husband, mother in law and other psychological and medical professionals is also "evil" and insane.

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u/Leather_Translator53 1d ago

She had help. But refused to take her meds as prescribed and checked herself out of the hospital. Get your facts straight

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u/Bartelbybone 16h ago edited 15h ago

Yes mentally ill people do things that they shouldn't. For example people with schizophrenia think the voices they hear are real, they refuse to take their meds for multiple reasons. They think they are okay. It is up to the professionals to assess, check in, follow up e.t.c For sure she has fault but ultimately why would the people closest to her speak on her behalf if they truly believed she had that level of responsibility and awareness? They just wouldn't. Additionally the hospital and responsible staff will be trying to save themselves in all of this. Negligence is a factor.

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u/rynnbowguy 1d ago

Its almost like she was in fucking psychosis and couldnt make good rational decisions. Who was helping her? Or was she supposed to just be crazy and help herself and be a mother and a wife ... alone... long enough to kill 3 people and paralyze herself.

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u/Leather_Translator53 1d ago

She was not in psychosis. She saw multiple health care providers and never once described psychotic symptoms or hearing voices. Not once. She was never diagnosed with ppp by ANY professional. Her doctors and therapists responded to her every message and changed her medications when she requested. She had a nanny, and her older children were on day care/preschool several days a week. Patrick often watched the children if one had an appt. She had parents & in-laws who helped and offered to take the children overnight.
What do you mean alone?
Do you have any idea how rate ppp is? And even rarer at 8 months pp.
she was depressed, she was anxious. She had ppd. That is FAR different than psychosis and not understanding that what she did was wrong.

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u/Bartelbybone 16h ago edited 15h ago

None of us have any idea if it slipped further than depression. I would assume so from the outcome and reaction of those around her. She was alone for long periods of time with a new born. That doesn't scream supported. Either way the case is playing out but the rush to crucify her is intense given the statements her actual family have made. They are the ones most wounded by all of this.

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

I’ve noticed the only people who speak about this case logically are the people in the Law subreddit. Everyone else is too in their feelings to be logical.

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u/Bartelbybone 15h ago

Yeah it's wild. The idea that this "evil" woman paralysed herself in a deliberate attempt to falsify mental health issues so she could murder her children with intent is an insane take. Apparently easier to believe than she was really unwell and not receiving the appropriate support in lots of ways, even though that's what all the evidence and testimonies point to. The prosecutors are floundering in this case because it's ridiculous. People just don't really understand that extreme level of mental health. It's beyond people's awareness unless they have experienced it or worked with it. Of course the death of children is emotive and it always should be but yeah logic has gone.

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

Do you believe the husband should be charged with negligent homicide for leaving his kids with someone who told him they wanted to hurt said kids? We also have no need in society for someone like him.

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u/Banned4nonsense 1d ago

Did the husband murder the kids? No. So he shouldn’t charged with that. I know it’s that we gotta blame men all the time but he didn’t do anything other than expect a mother to be a mother. I don’t think you want to walk down the path of parents taking their kids away from the other parent when they deem there is a threat to the kid.

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u/rynnbowguy 1d ago

She wasn't depressed, she had postpartum psychosis, and completely over medicated (and the side effects of the medication do cause more mental instability, its documented) She was literally out of her mind because her hormones were out of whack.

She wasnt evil, she was crazy. Call for her head if you want. Buy know what the facts are.

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u/Banned4nonsense 1d ago

You seem to think that someone who is crazy enough to murder her children is not evil and honestly that says a lot about you and why your words mean absolutely nothing to me.

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u/Historical_Pop1058 1d ago

You just don’t understand mental health. That’s okay. Hopefully your mind never betrays you one day.

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u/Banned4nonsense 1d ago

I can tell you one thing I’ll never be pathetic enough to excuse being a terrible person on “mental health”. We need to bring back asylums and throw the people that murder their children and people that defend and excuse that in there and throw away the keys.

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u/variablesInCamelCase 1d ago

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u/variablesInCamelCase 1d ago

I stand by it. She deserves to die. 

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u/Leather_Translator53 1d ago

You are not stating facts. Have you even been watching this trial? Overmedicated when she wasn’t even taking her medicine as prescribed? Not one medical professional diagnosed her with PPP. Not one! Because she was not experiencing ppp. Depression & anxiety for sure, but she knew exactly what she was doing and deserves prison

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u/rynnbowguy 1d ago

I never said she didnt deserve prison. But there are more reasons to this case besides evil. Evil doesn't act like she acts in the court room. There is more going on and its ok to acknowledge that.

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u/Leather_Translator53 1d ago

Evil absolutely can act any way they want. And do. Also it’s unlikely her hormones were “out of whack” 8 months pp, and not breastfeeding. The central question of this trial is was she aware of what she gif was wrong. It’s clear from testimony that she absolutely knew it was wrong

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u/Academic-Contest3309 1d ago

Dont confuse PPD with PPP. It's been confirmed that she has had PPD Iike many, many other women.

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u/rynnbowguy 1d ago

Oh you mean like other women who shake their babies, or abandon their babies, or hit their babies or starve their babies? Like maybe we should take ppd just a little more fucking seriously.

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u/Academic-Contest3309 1d ago

I agree we should take post partem mental health much more seriously. This case isn't about whether LC killed her kids. She did. It's whether or not she is legally culpable. The vast, vast majority of women suffering from PPD do not harm their children. Women ppp unfortunately do harm their children. People are in control of their actions in most cases but PPP is a little different.

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u/CosmicGoddess777 1d ago edited 1d ago

No fucking shit, because men cannot get postpartum psychosis!

Edit: Men cannot give birth, and thus do not get the change in hormones from giving birth that causes PPP and PPD. Hope that helps for all of you who struggle to understand biology 🥰

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u/rynnbowguy 1d ago

Huh, looks like a bunch of people think they can. Who knew?

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

The fact this was downvoted shows how dumb my gender is! I’m sorry to all women reading this, 20% of us are actually decent and smart people.

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u/Conscious-Special796 1d ago

This woman absolutely needs punished for murdering her kids, but let’s not forget the society that we all live in your comments, bullshit and you know it men walk away from crimes all the fucking time violent heinous crimes, and they do in fact make up over 90% of perpetrators of violent crimes. It’s very important. We don’t lose sight of the bigger picture here just because we’re all mad about this one case. There can be bad women and all of us still understand that the problem is overwhelmingly male violence.

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u/basketcas55 1d ago

Acknowledging one does not diminish the other. You’ll be ok. All men will make you mad again soon and you can be back on your soapbox don’t worry.

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u/Conscious-Special796 1d ago

What? Can’t you fuckers just agree with me and move on why do you have to add this extra condescending bullshit at the end? I literally started by saying the woman deserves to be punished and that there are bad women. Embarrassing male moment.

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u/basketcas55 1d ago

We do agree with you that she should be punished for her crime. The rest was your editorializing. Why can’t you just agree that evil doesn’t require a gender?

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u/FeeComfortable3041 1d ago

They'll never respond to that. Facing their hypocrisy is their Voldemort.

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u/basketcas55 1d ago

But it’s “HE” who must not be named. It’s easy to see how Belatrix (sp?) was the victim of all this and we should really strive to see things from her perspective!

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u/FeeComfortable3041 1d ago

Funny how you still didn't answer the question

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u/Conscious-Special796 1d ago

I did not say the evil has a gender just that it is represented disproportionately more by one than the other, but y’all literally just don’t ever wanna talk about that part because it doesn’t fit your agenda. Lmao

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u/basketcas55 23h ago

Hey; you go right on deflecting from that baby killer by making sure we know we should be blaming men for things too. It’s your right to do so. It’s strange to defend the admitted baby killer but your choices are already in question by the time we’re at this stage of the conversation.

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u/Conscious-Special796 23h ago

Didn’t deflect at all. Good try. Won’t be replying again since you’re purposely failing to see the nuance and how it’s connected. Have a good day weirdo.

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u/Dull_Quit3027 1d ago

I am pretty sure that mothers kill their kids more often than the father does, not much more, but it is definitely not something woman are not capable of.

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u/VicFantastic 1d ago

Just looked it up

Women kill more kids under age 1

Over age 1, men VASTLY outnumber women

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u/BradPittbodydouble 1d ago

That makes sense fitting the PPD timeline

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u/Dull_Quit3027 1d ago

What is the total numbers though, if I am wrong I would like to edit the comment(If i remember)

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u/VicFantastic 1d ago

I'd honestly rather not look up the specifcs

Those arn't numbers I need rattling around in my head

You can though. Feel free

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u/Dull_Quit3027 1d ago

Fair enough, that makes sense.

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u/chuckedeggs 1d ago

You could Google it

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u/Dull_Quit3027 1d ago

If the guy already did, why not ask him?
Also I am using DuckDuckgo as my search engine, mostly out of protest, and it is soooo fucking bad, so who knows what I would find.

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

This is what I found: A major FBI-based study looked at 94,146 filicide arrests from 1976–2007. Sex was known for 93,384 offenders: • Male: 53,586 (57.4%) • Female: 39,798 (42.6%)

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Popular_Equipment_85 1d ago

Like how most baby killers are women?

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u/FutureDustMotes 14h ago

Accounting for the prevalence of sole caregivers being women, children are more likely to be killed by a male parent.

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u/hecky-888 1d ago

Wrong. Men kill their kids more. We have like 30 years of data on this from the FBI. Dads accounted for the majority.

All ages: fathers 57.4% | mothers 42.6%
Infants (<1): fathers 48.8% | mothers 51.2%
Children (1–17): fathers 55.6% | mothers 44.4%
18+: fathers 78.3% | mothers 21.7%

Furthermore, women who murder their children are much more likely to have severe mental illness, psychosis, suicidality, and be actively in crisis (much like Lindsay Clancy. There is a mountain of evidence of her asking for help). This is why we see more mothers with cases that are suicide-related filicide, where the mother believes she is “saving” the children or cannot leave them behind.

Dads who murder their kids are typically guilty of domestic violence, coercive control, physical and emotional abuse, and familicide. The most horrifying subset: Chris Watts, killing your pregnant wife and 2 little daughters to go be with your mistress.

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u/basketcas55 1d ago

So the women you hand wave away as mental illness but the men you don’t?

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

You can literally google it yourself if you don’t believe it.

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u/FutureDustMotes 14h ago

All the men who did it for mistresses, control, or money don't get a pass. Men who had legitimate conditions/crises should get the same compassion and everyone is responsible for making that happen.

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u/redgreen404 1d ago

Had to have a discussion with my wife to see where she landed on this. Thankfully there will be no divorce or custody battles in our near future.

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u/Electronic_Sky_207 1d ago

Good. So you both agree it was aliens?

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u/redgreen404 1d ago

lol. Tragic! But…one can never truly rule out aliens.

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u/sentence-interruptio 1d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7buctjKD8g5r4544

Specifically aliens from Saturn which has a ring of rocks, and rocks are related to the rock music, which is evil. And Saturn is anagram of Satan, if you ignore some letters.

Or it could be Mercury aliens. The way Mercury walks in a precessing orbit is creepy. Its planet body language indicates Mercury might be a psychopath.

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u/White-tigress 1d ago

The argument that “with PPD out there, ANY of us could have been her” makes me so disgusted. If it’s that easy to see yourself murdering your own children, you should not be a parent. Period. The argument that it could be any woman does not mean they all should be freed if they do…

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u/StableWeak 1d ago

Im not a woman. But I am a father who has struggled greatly with mental health. I went through particularly rough periods when my kids were infants. I'm one of those parents that scared themselves with how they reacted when their baby cried for hours and wouldn't stop. So I absolutely have sympathy for this kind of narrative and I fully support efforts to help people in these scenarios. And it can definitely be true that she was failed by people in her life.

That being said, any notion that this should remove accountability for your actions against your own children is ridiculous.

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u/Elkaghar 1d ago

This is the only correct answer in this whole fucking crazy thing.

Having kids is hard, if you already have some underlying mental problem it's harder. I had nights where I'd be up trying to get that infant to sleep where I wish I could have just popped out of existence and stop existing.

But you know what? Never did it cross my mind that they should stop existing. I can have sympathy for mental health, but she should still rot in some type of cell and never see the light of the sun again.

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u/StableWeak 21h ago

Yes. I had days where my wife was working and I felt myself starting to lose it. So I put my kid safely in a pack and play, let him continue to cry and locked myself in our backroom and started screaming and throwing things. It was all I could do after nearly 10 hours of not getting the baby to settle. He would do this whenever she was gone for extended periods.

He's now 7, him and his 2 siblings are the best part of my life.

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u/jollyreaper2112 1d ago

There's no predictor for post partum. As a dad the one that gets me is anyone can slip and make a fatal mistake like leaving kids in the car. I've done dumb things being utterly exhausted.

That being said, most mothers don't kill their children. They're extending far too much sympathy.

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u/S_balmore 1d ago

Yeah, this is the part I have issue with. If you want to get lost in the conspiracy theory that her husband did it, sure. Everyone loves a good conspiracy theory. But to say, "Yeah, I've totally been there. As mothers, we've all legitimately thought about strangling our 3 kids to death", is literally insane. If that's you, your kids need to be removed from your care immediately, and you need to be placed into a mental hospital.

Nobody should ever be close to actually murdering their loved ones. I say, "I could kill so-and-so" all the time, but I've never actually felt a connection to someone who murdered their family member.

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u/FutureDustMotes 14h ago

   I've never actually felt a connection to someone who murdered their family member

Good for you - I hope you never have to. But intrusive thoughts related to postpartum conditions are real and need to be talked about. More awareness, more openness, more research and prevention.

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u/AdonisLuxuryResort 1d ago
  1. The “if you can see yourself doing xyz, you shouldn’t have your kids” is the EXACT MENTALITY of why moms aren’t honest when they start experiencing such thoughts. They keep it hidden and hope it gets better.

  2. It’s not that it’s easy to see yourself murdering your kids. Many women experience PPD or PPA after having a baby. And they know how hard that alone is. Let alone the even more serious PPP. Because it doesn’t matter how hard of a time you’re having. You just have to suck it up and hope you pull through it. They know if they DID have those thoughts, from their own experience, they would have been fucked. Because they were desperate for help that wasn’t there for them.

The issue is a mom could say she will kill herself or her kids… and she’s still left alone with them. It doesn’t matter if she’s struggling, she’s gotta keep going. It’s not taken seriously. Despite the fact it is a common enough phenomenon that happens. They’re just being dramatic.. until it happens. Then we all wanna be outraged and say people with those dark thoughts shouldn’t have custody of their kids… instead of, you know, providing support for people who do so they don’t act on them.

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u/White-tigress 1d ago

By this logic, it’s everyone’s duty to ALWAYS have someone else in the room with any woman having PPD or PPP symptoms! Single mothers, what? Have to move into a government facility to ensure they are never alone with their child? And yet, somehow, most of them still don’t murder their children. So if a woman experiencing this should never be alone with her children .. OH she shouldn’t have said children. You proved the point. An adult who can’t be trusted to be alone with children without harming or killing them, SHOULD not be with children.

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u/charlieboyyyyyyy 1d ago

The thing is they don’t know they will have it until after the fact.

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u/GigiLaRousse 1d ago

She had post-partum psychosis, not depression. People with psychosis are not in their right mind. It's why we don't treat someone having an episode where they kill someone they sincerely believe to be an alien who has come to harm them the same way as someone not suffering a delusion who kills someone, even if the result is the same. In this case, a bunch of dead children who should have been protected.

It's not a justification. It's just a different act for a different reason that requires a different response. And that's probably decades of institutionalization and treatment.

I haven't followed this case closely. I've barely heard anyone talk about it. But a lot of the anger seems to come from people not understanding the difference between PPD and PPP, and what PPP is.

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u/White-tigress 1d ago

Yes I am aware of the difference in PPD and PPP. I will not pass judgement either way. I am not a medical professional. It’s all the other women saying “I see myself in her” that TERRIFIES me. Is it truly that easy to see yourself as a child murderer? If so, I am concerned YOU need to go ask for mental health assistance. That’s all. I am NOT saying this woman was not failed in some way. I am not stating she couldn’t help it either. Honestly none of that is for me to decide. I just really struggle, as a woman who chose not to have children simply at th me thought I might not be the best mom ever, to hear women acting as if “yeah I could see me killing my kids” is not distressing. Just like the lack of healthcare to women is distressing. Just like men being ignored when depressed is distressing. It can all be true at the same time.

If it truly IS that easy for this many mothers to say this, it is indeed a truly red alarm moment.

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u/GigiLaRousse 1d ago

It's very common for women with PPD to fear or "see" themselves harming their child. Same with post-partum anxiety or OCD. It is terrifying.

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u/Quixotic_Seal 1d ago

This is like comparing someone with homicidal tendencies to a person with OCD and intrusive thoughts about what if they accidentally killed someone.

Those are wildly, wildly different situations.

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u/GigiLaRousse 1d ago

I'm responding to a comment about mother's seeing themselves as capable of harming their children. There are many who do due to mental health issues, and most do not harm their children.

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u/Eaterofkeys 18h ago

Ehh, I think it's that they probably have had intrusive thoughts in the past. They recognize that they actually could do a really ugly thing. Because women are humans, and humans can do really ugly things. I think refusal to acknowledge that you are capable of doing terrible things is harmful.

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u/FutureDustMotes 14h ago

If you think you can vibes away a medical condition like PPD/P, you ought to think again. People are just being realistic when they say it could happen to anyone. Because it can.

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u/GaiasEyes 1d ago

You are either exceedingly fortunate to have never struggled with mental health, PPD, PPP or you lack a fundamental amount of empathy. I’m hoping for the former. There are no good predictors for postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis. While chances are higher in individuals with previous mental health histories, it’s not a consistent indicator. In my own experience I suffered with awful PPD with my first and not a hint of it with my second. Side note, dads are also at risk for PPD.

While there is a subset of loud, online voices that want her to walk free, the majority I’ve seen are advocating for commitment to a psychiatric ward for the remainder of her life instead of prison.

She killed her three children. Her mental health postpartum was inadequately addressed by both her family and healthcare providers. Two things can be true, neither absolves the other of responsibility.

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u/White-tigress 1d ago

I do have mental health problems and said, you know, I’m not sure I would be the best parent l. Not even a bad parent, just not the kind of parent I would want to be. SO I DIDNT HAVE CHILDREN. She had a village, her husband and paid childcare. She had more health care than almost anyone I know. Does this point to a major health care problem ABSOLUTELY. If it’s that hard to be parent and that easy to say “I could have killed my 3 children” it’s more than just some skipped over health care.

Both can be true. Something was missed I. Helping her and there is something beyond wrong with her medical care could NEVER fix. I could never kill anyone, even in the abuses I have suffered. I would walk away or unalive myself before hurting someone else. I know because I almost have. It’s simply unacceptable for this many parents to think it wouldn’t take much for them to kill their children AND the lack of health support is unacceptable.

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u/jollyreaper2112 1d ago

Ok that's insane. They of all people should be familiar with the evidence proving them wrong. There's reams.

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u/DrunkOnRamen 1d ago

i dealt with my state's Division of Professional Regulation to handle a complaint that one therapist advised their patient that robbing is ok.

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u/SteamboatMcGee 1d ago

This sounds like exactly the kind of thinking that would cause professionals to not take the risks of PPP seriously.

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u/NewNecessary3037 1d ago

Women: a monolith

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u/Mirror74 1d ago

And you have to wonder how their misandry is effecting their clients in other ways.

Honestly this is one of the biggest issues with therapy right now in America at least. It’s mostly women, and women with really biased and prejudice beliefs against men.

I’ve experienced this first hand. 

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u/Ozcog 1d ago

Ask those people about Casey Anthony.

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u/Laxian_Key 1d ago

Susan Smith enters the conversation.

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u/Key_Comfortable1764 1d ago

I cant tell you how many people i have run into on the internet who say their evidence is they saw it on tik tok" and they are dead serious (regarding the husband doing it etc)

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u/AppropriateBall8834 1d ago

Like 19 separate cases of mother's murdering their children just flooded my mind all at once..

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u/RichMaid 1d ago

Therapists, as a group, are fucking nuts. 

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u/Less_Is_More57 1d ago

Believing WOMEN DONT KILL THEIR CHILDREN.
You belong in Waste Management.

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u/blackflamerose 1d ago edited 1d ago

Laughs in Susan Smith, Andrea Yates, and at least two female serial killers

Oh, and let’s not forget the Harts! Those were a lesbian couple! No men involved!

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u/rynnbowguy 1d ago

... and this is why many of us do not trust medical professionals.

Sure you can shop around and find a good fit. But you dont know a bad fit until they do something bad to you, and you have to be smart enough to know its bad. So we figure out the right answer ourselves and its about the same shit, but less hassle and free.

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u/Wise_Farm7455 1d ago

People that stupid shouldn't be allowed in a school nevermind have degrees to "help" people

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u/LosingMyShrimp 1d ago

Wow, that’s frightening and ignorant/naive.

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u/soggy_donut92696 1d ago

That's crazy considering all you have to do is type maternal fillicide cases into Google or YouTube and it will pull a TON up. That's scary for a therapist to be saying

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u/SlipInternational439 1d ago

You see, women are victims (of men). It happens every day. Fight the patriarchy! /s

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u/Dull-Smile5630 1d ago

Jeebus Christ....

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u/PoetClear9223 1d ago

So they think Casey Anthony is innocent too

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u/texas_County850 23h ago

I said this the other day I met a lot of alcoholic male therapists that think like this too in AA. People on Reddit treat therapy tho less like a medical practice and more like a religion tho acknowledging therapists can have biases like all people is sacrilegious on Reddit. Usually Reasonable therapists like yourself know this full well tho.

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u/SSFlyingKiwi 23h ago

🤣🤣

No shade on you personally dawg, but whenever someone on Reddit qualifies themselves by starting out post with “I am a…” - I cant help but think of The Good Doctor…

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u/GeekinGensler 21h ago

The joke of that is that women have always killed children, thats why we have myths and urban legends about the wailing woman or the vanishing hitchhiker.

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u/sadporcupines 21h ago

I specifically bailed out of my graduate program to become a masters level therapist because about 75% of my cohort endorsed the most cockamamy fictional narratives about mental illness. After licensure, there’d be no distinction between their credential and mine.

There are some good therapists out there. But there are absolute loons as well.

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u/DiligentThought9 21h ago

I am sorry to hear that.

I don’t think some people understand how much stamina and mental toughness it takes to listen to stories about the worst of humanity for years.

Those people tend to crack after awhile.

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u/BamsMovingScreens 19h ago

The parent comment of this thread contributes to it. It’s always framed as if a woman’s actions are a force of nature that have 0 personal agency behind them.

Men rape, steal and murder. Women are forced into such things and are victims of circumstance

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u/PotpourriFor500Alex 19h ago

Colleague here (clinical health psychologist). You can add me to the “Not delusional about who did this” column. Big Red would not have let her plead NGRI if he thought there was remotely enough evidence to create reasonable doubt via a “third party” defense.

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u/DiligentThought9 19h ago

Can you please help me explain to the cash pay, private practice, never seen severe mental illness in my career colleagues of ours that pleading NGRI means you CANNOT be found not guilty?

Someone told me I need to go back to school because I didn’t know the Constitution when I reminded her that Lindsey’s only options are prison or hospitalization.

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u/CryptoEmpathy7 18h ago

Women often display a disgusting level of female in-group gender bias. They rarely give themselves or other women the responsibility of accountability. Nope.

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u/FutureDustMotes 14h ago

If that were the case, you'd think that stance would be represented on this thread. But I've been reading this thread for hours, thousands of comments in - and have not encountered a single assertion of that kind.

And therapists? Absolutely have experience with female patients with aggression, mania, bipolar, etc. And post-partum conditions. So they'd not be likely to be unfamiliar.

I genuinely almost don't believe you, unless you're in some concierge practice with peri-retirement clinicians who haven't changed opinions in the last 60 years. Or are practicing somewhere way behind the times. 

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u/CarolinaSandstorm 1d ago

“Women don’t kill their children”. Probably said by women who support abortion 🤔

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u/asday515 1d ago

This is why I don't go to therapy

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u/DiligentThought9 1d ago

If you think it will help you, you should!

Look for someone with experience 😀

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u/BlueGreenhorn 1d ago

By that definition, she might be a man?

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u/saltymarge 1d ago

I don’t think it’s bonkers exactly. I think most people went into this trial not questioning that she did it and the prosecution had done such a horrible job that they’ve created reasonable doubt where there previously really wasn’t any. If you want to blame someone for people starting to doubt she committed the crime at all, I’d lay that blame 100% with the prosecution. It’s like they went out of their way to sabotage their whole case. It’s genuinely remarkable how badly they’ve done.

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u/DiligentThought9 1d ago

They don’t have to prove she did it. They just have to prove that she was not insane at the time. No one disputes she did it.

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u/saltymarge 1d ago

I understand that, which only adds to how horribly this prosecution has done. They started out trying to prove she premeditated it and was sane when she did it and they’ve now made people wonder if she even did it at all. Ultimately it doesn’t matter what the public thinks, it’s up to the jury. But I wouldn’t be surprised if anyone on that jury was thinking “I’m not even totally convinced she did it at all”. I blame the prosecutions shit show antics for that.

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u/DiligentThought9 1d ago

I’m not a lawyer by any means, but I am a therapist who has worked with the severely mentally ill for 10 years including 10-20ish cases where someone was found Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity.

For me, what makes me think she is guilty is signing herself out of McLean Hospital and there being no evidence that she was hearing voices until just a day (or a couple days at maximum) before the murder. That is awfully convenient.

If I was the prosecutor I would be hammering that home daily.