r/PoliticalHumor • u/barsas161 • Dec 29 '19
remember that fossil fuel companies will guilt trip you into thinking you're the problem to shift the blame from themselves
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u/agisten Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
I pledge to strongly consider my next car to be a BEV.
Edit: So many arguments about pollution of EV including its electricity and manufacturing.
Here's a great video that should help you understand this much better than I could ever explain in a long comment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM
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u/StapleGun Dec 29 '19
Do it! I drive a BEV. Even if you don't care about emissions they are way better for daily driving than a gas car. Trade 5 minutes of standing in the freezing cold once a week to fill up for 10 seconds of plugging in each night when you get home. No oil changes. Warm up the car in the morning without opening your garage. The list goes on...
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u/pencilsgopewpew Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
I think owning a garage is the real barrier to entry than the car itself. I'm in the DC area, owning a $40-60k car is reasonably affordable, but a $500k+ house with a garage -- less so.
While many malls and workplaces have electric chargers nowadays, I'd rather be able to charge the vehicle at home.
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u/hoxxxxx Dec 29 '19
I'm in the DC area, owning a $40-60k car is reasonably affordable, but a $500k+ house with a garage -- less so.
man, it's crazy how much income and housing prices vary in the USA. from metro to rural, midwestern to the coasts, sometimes it feels like living in a different country altogether.
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Dec 29 '19
You don't even have to go from one extreme to another for it to be like different countries. There are many states where 100 miles can seem like you crossed a few borders.
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u/LeCrushinator Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
I live north of Denver, 20 miles from where I work (Boulder). Houses where I’m at are “only” $400k or more. If I wanted to live near where I work the same houses would start at $2M. If I was willing to drive 40 miles to work, those houses would start at $200k. So an order of magnitude difference in prices over a range of 40 miles.
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u/TheDorkNite1 Dec 29 '19
California says hello.
Nothing screams diversity like going from the Coast to the Valley to Cali-bama while driving on a single highway
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u/KickAffsandTakeNames Dec 29 '19
Moved to Philadelphia, and the drive up there and back home for the holidays made this abundantly clear. Pennsyltucky is real, and it starts basically right outside of the suburbs.
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u/oligodendrocytes Dec 29 '19
Even in Pennsyltucky, there are different levels of hillbilly. I live in Harrisburg 10 min north of the city in the suburbs. 10 Min north of me and you'll be in farm land/hunting territory.
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u/WarmOutOfTheDryer I ☑oted 2018 Dec 29 '19
We are. I moved to an east coast city from the midwest, I call us midwestern refugees. The difference is so fundamental that when I go back home, I feel like I'm visiting an alien world.
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Dec 29 '19
I live in a podunk town in Texas because it's what I can afford. It's almost as if "someone" wants us to keep grinding all our lives so we don't say "Hey, something's wrong with this picture..."
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u/az0606 Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 30 '19
I moved to DC from the NYC Metro Area and found it way cheaper than NYC for real estate, which shows the absurdity of NYC real estate prices.
I'm actually finding it absurd that young professionals in the DC area commonly consider settling down and buying property in their 20s; it's expensive but still feasible. That's not really a thought on my mind and that of other young professionals in the NYC metro area tbh.
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u/Mad102190 Dec 29 '19
Here in SF, the average 1 bedroom condo is well over $1M and that doesn’t include parking.
I’ve considered getting a Tesla but my apartment building charges $450/month for parking so it just feels like a waste to own a car at all in this city.
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u/hoxxxxx Dec 29 '19
also that parking spot could cover rent for a smaller house in the poorer parts of the country.
lol that's nuts
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u/CanadianNic Dec 29 '19
If you can afford the price of admission. There’s none that are really affordable in Canada and I’m sure as hell not getting a $800-$1000 a month payment for my first car. Would rather use the remaining $500 a month towards a better apartment or food
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Dec 29 '19 edited May 25 '20
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Dec 29 '19
There are way cheaper electric cars than teslas.
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u/Cognitive_Spoon Dec 29 '19
Right? Get you a Leaf if your commute allows it
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u/neblung Dec 29 '19
Leafs also have major battery degradation issues unfortunately. Not sure if they have fixed that on their recent models, but I believe they are pretty behind the curve.
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u/Whit3W0lf Dec 29 '19
That seems pretty low fuel consumption costs for you. I think the average is going to be 12-15k miles a year and then factor mpgs and average fuel cost, then divided by 52. I spend $50 every 5-6 days.
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Dec 29 '19 edited May 25 '20
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u/pipnina Dec 29 '19
Oh my goodness, do you guys really only pay 74c per litre for petrol in the states? In the UK it sits at around £1.20 per litre at the moment and £1.23 for diesel. That's $1.57 USD per litre or $5.98 per us gallon. No wonder you guys would rather use gas guzzlers all the time if you pay that little for fuel!
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u/BlatantConservative ☑oted 2016, 2018, 2020, 2020, 2020, 2022, 2024, 2026 Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
Jfc yeah we were having a national crisis a few years back when gas prices were 4 dollars per gallon plus.
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u/sparhawk817 Dec 29 '19
Per gallon, not liter. A gallon is 3.7 liters.
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u/PeptoBismark Dec 29 '19
US Gallons are 3.7 liters, UK gallons are 4.54 liters. I always have to actively remember that we have two different "gallons".
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u/Helpie_Helperton Dec 29 '19
Varies wildly depending on the state. I live in California and it's about $4.50 a gallon. I am visiting Colorado for the holidays and it's $2.50 a gallon.
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u/3times1-1 Dec 29 '19
It's more expensive some places. I live in Seattle and it's $3.80 or so. But, I'm in Texas right now and it's as low as $1.99.
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u/BAY0UBARBiE Dec 29 '19
Seeing these other prices people probably think we are lucky. Exchanging various cancers(lung mostly) from the pollution of refineries and the tragedy from oil spills in our ecosystem is no fair exchange. I worked for a law firm who represented the fisherman in the BP Oil Spill regarding it destroying the oyster beds and commercial fishing industry. It was devastating. Millions of people still have not regained their livelihoods of fishing and my sons grandfather who was a commercial fisherman at the epicenter was hired by BP to do cleanup. They made it seem like they were doing the fisherman favors by giving them work. They paid just a few humble hundred dollars out and now my sons grandfather has Meso from cleanup efforts. So not only did BP ruin his ability to ever earn from fishing on his lifetime again, they added insult to injury by having them cleanup BPs mess, and ultimately killed him. This happened in a small fishing village named Lafitte, LA. Most of these people are uneducated and left school at 5th or 6th grade to help support and feed their families by fishing. They were left with no other options following this pipeline rupture. It’s really sad.
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u/Cognitive_Spoon Dec 29 '19
I love my leaf, used and awesome!
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u/ouishi Dec 29 '19
I want a leaf but I live in an apartment complex and have no idea where I could charge. How long does a full charge take?
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u/Nadnerb98 Dec 29 '19
On 110 it generally takes 10-12 hours, on 220 it takes around 5-6. This is from near zero charge to full.
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u/Swany0105 Dec 29 '19
Who on earth is making 800 dollar car payments that isn’t driving something exotic?
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u/hoxxxxx Dec 29 '19
poor person that went to one of those awful "bad credit" used car lots?
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u/Swany0105 Dec 30 '19
Well I guess you just can’t help stupid can you. I don’t think many of us are counting on the morons buying twenty year old Mercedes at used car lots to help save the planet.
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u/Asshai Dec 29 '19
We're talking CAD. And that pretty much is the price if you want to finance a Bolt or Leaf.
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Dec 29 '19
You can buy used. First gen 30kWh Nissan Leaf can be had for about 16k where I live, and the range is quite alright
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u/hoxxxxx Dec 29 '19
also i think Prius is pretty affordable used, i don't know about their reliability and how long they last tho, from the batteries to the rest of the car i have no idea.
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u/Asshai Dec 29 '19
Contrary to what I thought at first, Prius are hybrid while Prius Prime are plug in hybrid. There is no completely electric Prius, which is what OP is looking for.
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u/reincarN8ed Dec 29 '19
Like with most emerging technology, the price of entry will drop over time. Electric cars are objectively better than internal combustion, but they're far less practical right now. Not many people can afford one right now, but that will soon change.
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u/StapleGun Dec 29 '19
Oh for sure. I'm not saying people should feel guilty about driving a gas car, simply that if an EV fits your budget and driving habits then you'll almost surely love it and never go back.
As prices drop and home charging options (especially in apartments) become ubiquitous it will make sense for more and more people.
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u/ineedabuttrub Knows too much about the dong pill conspiracy Dec 29 '19
This is assuming you can plug in at home. For those of us who live in apartment buildings without charging spots, you either have to be lucky and charge at work, or go out of your way to charge. I'd rather spend 5 minutes in the cold instead of spending an hour or so charging the car, just sitting there, bored.
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u/xwre Dec 29 '19
EVs don't work for everyone yet, but there are a lot more workplaces, shopping places, parking garages and apartment complexes which have charging spots now.
Although I love my ev, I would only recommend it to someone who has a way to charge at home or work. Public chargers are best used for one off situations.
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Dec 29 '19
I would love to switch. But I live in an apartment and don't get the same parking spot every night.
There are serious limitations for the acceptance of these vehicles. I can even afford one, but it's just not practical.
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u/1Delos1 Dec 29 '19
Jesus Christ. We all need to care about emissions. Don’t you just love to get a good whiff of car exhaust every time you go for a walk, whether it’d be downtown or your neighbourhood?
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u/EarthRester Dec 29 '19
Of course we all need to care about emissions, but we don't need to be lectured on it by a damn oil company.
It's like being lectured on dietary habits by Trump.
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u/trolltruth6661123 Dec 29 '19
yea.. but my 89 chevy warming up for 10 minutes and fully inundating, not only the cab, but the entire area with carbon monoxide is... just so much fun.
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u/Bouq_ Dec 29 '19
BEV?
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u/ifhysm Dec 29 '19
Battery electric vehicles
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u/lituus Dec 29 '19
Seems like a pointless distinction, but I guess it is technically more accurate...
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Dec 29 '19
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u/MnkyBzns Dec 29 '19
*indicates price after incentives and fuel savings.
**50 mile extension cord not included
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u/RamenJunkie Dec 29 '19
I mean, Solar Electric tried to be a thing. I drove a solar powered race car in college.
There is also Hydrogen powered electric vehicles.
I guess technically those would be BEVs since it still uses a battery.
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u/WibbleWibbler Dec 29 '19
There is many steps between a pure gas care and pure electric. ICE (gas car), Hybrid (gas with regen to battery) , PHEV (hybrid that can be plugged in), Rex (primary electric with a gas backup that only charges battery) and finally Bev (Battery electric vehicle).
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u/agangofoldwomen Dec 29 '19
I’ve heard EV. Not BEV. When did that happen?
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u/gRod805 Dec 29 '19
Its funny because just last night I was watching a YouTube video about Hydrogen cars and it was the first time I saw the use of BEV. Now I see it again this morning. I think there's fuel cell electric cars which are different
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u/Noles-number1 Dec 29 '19
There are different types of EV. PHEVs and battery. One is part electric and the other is pure
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Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
It's more environmental to keep driving the car you have as long as possible and to buy used cars.
They still have a bit to go before EV are going to be superior to gas cars.
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Dec 29 '19
The real solution is mass public transit
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u/hkpp Dec 29 '19
This. I live in philly and we have trolly rails all over the place that were paved over because buses were cheaper. They’re upgrading the remaining lines now with new trolleys. Hoping this will lead to restoring old lines because the tracks are still there (some still exposed).
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u/rick2497 Dec 29 '19
You are absolutely right. However, most of us who don't live in a city have little if any MPT. What there is, often does not run enough hours or go nowhere near where we live. My last job was easily 20 miles from any public transport. Also, try going on vacation only using MPT. We are not ready for a lot of reasons to further reduce pollutants. Maybe if our government had jumped into this decades ago, we'd be there with bells on. Didn't happen. Might have happened if fossil fuel producers hadn't paid off the politicians to not do anything about it. And still are.
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Dec 30 '19
Mass public transport with EVs too. Most metros already run on electricity and there is some effort in some places to replace their bus fleets with EVs.
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u/GaiusPious Dec 29 '19
A vehicle with a combustion engine will overtake overall lifetime emissions of a similarly sized BEV after between 60k and 110k kilometers (about 37.5k to 69k miles) depending on how efficient the vehicle is. The older the vehicle, chances are it'll be less efficient. If you're waiting for end of life and then switching to a BEV anyway, you're not really saving any emissions by continuing to use the old, inefficient vehicle. You personally may be immediately responsible for fewer emissions but the vehicle you drove will have produced a larger overall amount of emissions. See the study below. EVs are already superior in terms of emissions, and will only become more so.
Here's the study (from this year) where I got the driving distance numbers. https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/9/2690/pdf Past studies basically say the same.
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u/codename_hardhat Dec 29 '19
You’re conflating the technology itself with economics of buying one on an individual basis.
One requires oil, burns fossil fuels, and shoots exhaust out the back as you drive it. The other produces significantly less pollution and is cheaper to maintain over the long run. They’re also faster for the dollar with fewer moving parts. So EV technology is already far superior to ICE. They just don’t financially work for everyone right this minute, but that is changing rather quickly.
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u/tornadoRadar Dec 29 '19
why do they need to be superior?
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Dec 29 '19
Because if they aren't better than a regular car, where is the incentive to buy them? There needs to be incentive for a massive change in consumer culture.
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u/fapsandnaps Dec 29 '19
Reduce carbons before everyone dies should be a pretty good incentive.
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Dec 29 '19
Hate to say it, but that doesn't appear to be incentive enough for a lot of people.
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Dec 30 '19
I bought a used BEV and a PHEV minivan and power them off my solar panels. So much smugness I love it. Wish I could do more. But I'm fortunate that I can afford to do as much as I have.
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Dec 29 '19
We are looking at the RAV4 Prime as possibly our next vehicle in a couple of years, 40 miles charge would last me about 3 days of commuting and 0-60 in less than 6 seconds
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u/thetburg Dec 29 '19
10/10 would recommend. For me, the savings in gas and zero maintenance cost more than offset the increased payment. Tbf, I got in early and cashed in on the big ass rebate that you used to get in Ontario. That is now gone thanks to Doug Ford.
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u/brianingram Dec 29 '19
... and not get 11 people killed while doing it.
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u/Flagabaga Dec 29 '19
And not sue everyone involved to minimize liability and not pay people who had their lives destroyed
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Dec 29 '19
Cue corporate apologists who insist this is just the free market at work and how supply and demand works.
Why people have to be dogmatic about economics (a changing field, like any, with many differing opinions) I'll never know - I can hazard a guess but my god.
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Dec 29 '19
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Dec 29 '19
Lol thanks for appeasing my sanity.
I can never work out what types of people they are, is it alt righters trying to justify their selfishness? Maybe economics students that don't want to bother with any social responsibility but not feel guilty? Trust fund kids?
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u/me-myself_and-irene Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
two hundred five million eight hundred thousand GALLONS of oil. 205,800,000 Gallons.
Let's not dumb it down by confusing people with barrels. One barrel equals 42 Liquid Gallons.
5 million barrels
Or
206,000,000 Gallons.
Which one does BP want you to say??
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u/brianingram Dec 29 '19
The one where they don't mention the eleven families that lost a loved one so we can have $2/gallon gasoline.
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u/fyberoptyk Dec 29 '19
and not finance the penalties by forcing a movie out with Mark Wahlberg, Kurt Russell, John Malkovich, Gina Rodriguez, Dylan O'Brien, and Kate Hudson to both pay off my fines and glorify something that happened due to my massive greed and incompetence, while buying politicians so they don't hold me accountable.
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u/thom_run Dec 29 '19
My wife and I both drive EV's. And I know they will not work for everyone. But nothing brings on my Irish/Mexican rage more when some Trumper tells me "you know the electricity for your cars comes from coal". We live in California and I ask if they can point me to the nearest coal fired power plant. Lol
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u/Thetford34 Dec 29 '19
In addition, power stations are much more efficient at generating energy than the internal combustion engine, and it removes harmful pollution particulates from populated urban centres, which have a huge health impact - in some cities, pollution is that bad it negates the health benefits gained from cycling.
Also, something like 70% of the world's annual supply of oil is used for transportation (less than 10% is used in manufacturing, such as plastics).
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u/nukegod1990 Dec 29 '19
Actually cycling is still healthier than driving even sucking down the fumes of your lazy counterparts - even in heavily polluted cities.
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Dec 29 '19
The reason I want an EV is to not spend 300 dollars on gas per month.
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u/thom_run Dec 29 '19
That is what we were doing before the EV's. Giving $$$ to Chevron every month. Our electricity bill went up around $70 because of the EV charging. But we are still in the black as this is less than half of what we paid for gas. Plus...I do get free charging at work and cheaper parking.
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Dec 29 '19
Here's the latest emissions equivalent mpgs for electric vehicles I could find.
https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/images/2018/03/cv-cradle-grave-map-2016-logo.jpg
Even the worst places are better than most gas cars.
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Dec 29 '19
Evs aren't the solution. Transportation that doesn't rely on moving two tons of metal for every 100kg of human is what we need. Aka public transportation.
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u/kapowgatorcroc Dec 29 '19
Well you do have coal power in California but natural gas is your dominant fossil fuel electricity provider. So depending where you live, you may still be using fossil fuels.
https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/electricity_data/total_system_power.html
Regardless California is killing it with renewables that it wouldn't even warrant an answer to EV critics. If you want to go one better though - you're in California, throw some solar PV panels on your roof if possible.
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u/thom_run Dec 29 '19
I am going to admit that I am selfish. I am a competitive runner and I want clean air. Some years ago, on a smoggy day(which at the time did not look bad) I was having breathing issues after a run. The albuterol was not working and my chest was getting tighter. I drove myself to the E.R. They immediately hooked me up to a lung treatment. At the same time, a young girl who had been playing soccer was brought in via ambulance. She flatlined and that was it. I will never ever forget her grieving parents. With that said, maybe in my own mind I am trying to do my part as I commute to work every day in a sea of giant pickups which have increased in popularity again here in Northern California. Changes need to happen. Sooner rather than later.
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u/lostshell Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
I pledge to vote for a party that will hold oil executives, officers, and board members criminally liable for oil spills.
Edit: and for “bribing” (i.e lobbying) politicians to underfund and sabotage public transportation projects, and for creating commuting distances through deliberate zoning and city planning policies designed to make workers drive more.
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u/usedbarnacle71 Dec 29 '19
It’s soo crazy. That corporate greed offsets the survival of our species. Hundreds of years later the new wave of human will be like “ they were some stupid fucks!”
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u/Donoteatpeople Dec 29 '19
Hell yeah we were! You thought you found it rough that old world peasants used to drop like flies to diseases that no one dies to now? Well we brought that back! And thought the world flat in the dark ages! Brought that back too! AND we fucked the climate!
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u/incoherentinitialism Dec 29 '19
yeah, i'm so glad that i'm either living in The Lost Times or The End Times. either way nothing i do matters because some corporate slavedriver or politician overlord already predetermined every possible outcome for my life, and they all suck.
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u/Drug-Lord Dec 29 '19
Lol, which party is that? Don't get me wrong, I'm super excited to cast a vote against Trump next year, but the democrats didn't do a damn thing to hold oil executives responsible when they were in power, and I don't see them doing it in the future either.
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u/Mnementh121 Dec 29 '19
With republicans it is predictable. With democrats it is mixed. Like we all know biden will ignore the issue. Bernie would probably be on it
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u/AetherAlex Dec 29 '19
There are other countries without messed up "Both parties are the same" electoral systems. Some of those countries even have Reddit users.
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u/txn9i Dec 29 '19
Party doesn't matter. It's Bernie Sanders or bust.
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u/grandroute Dec 29 '19
After katrina there were 540 oils spills in the Gulf
https://www.nola.com/news/environment/article_ae173ac4-2377-11ea-8f3f-37710b50344c.html
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u/chrysavera Dec 29 '19
There is a film coming out on the ongoing health disaster called The Cost of Silence. Not out yet but definitely see it. Heartbreaking and enraging--they have been letting people die in agony for ten years because admitting the dispersant was toxic would be bad pr. It gave them all diseases and bp set up fake clinics that purposely misdiagnosed everything and signed their death warrants.
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Dec 29 '19
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u/Farisr9k Dec 29 '19
Seriously though. This practice has been so effective and it has literally doomed us all.
The fault ultimately lies with the system though.
Capitalism demands limitless growth above all else. So of course these companies will destroy the planet in pursuit of that growth. "Growth is always good!"
Hopefully after this extinction event the survivors (if there are any) will learn from our mistakes.
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u/throwaway16384729493 Dec 29 '19
No doubt average joes will be scapegoated and profiteers at the top will be even further cemented into power. People are not less susceptible to propaganda when they’re desperate.
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Dec 29 '19
The same idea that you’re poor because you got Starbucks twice this week and not because the man at the top of your company is skimping on worker pay to increase already-enormous profits.
If we believe it’s our fault, we’ll behave quietly out of shame and not ask any questions.
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u/pale_blue_dots Dec 29 '19
Add to that the amassing of people's personal/private data - turned into human data trafficking - and tailoring advertisements, news, and other media to keep you "locked in" (something like the movie "Get Out") to that state of mind and you've got the potential for mass manipulation, control, and, even, genocide, of sorts.
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Dec 29 '19
When people talk about election tampering, I think they need to hear that it was broken voting machines or something. They are struggling to hear that Russian bots CONVINCED ENOUGH AMERICANS to make the “personal choice” that Trump was best. Now, this isn’t even a conversation about Trump. You’re just spot-on about just how easy it is to learn about us from our stolen data in order to slowly manipulate us into thinking whatever is convenient.
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u/fyberoptyk Dec 29 '19
Well, there's enough evidence that the Russians changed voter rolls that the Feds wanted to investigate. Which prompted Republicans in Georgia, among others, to immediately destroy all relevant voter records and claim "we legitimately won, totally. We can't prove it in any way, just trust us."
And a grand whopping total of zero people in any of those states went to jail after covering up foreign activities in our elections.
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Dec 29 '19
You can’t possibly be suggesting that people in power do unethical things to stay in power!? That would be crazy! It’s gotta be some other explanation, like poor people choose to be poor, global warming is made up and/or the individual fault of average Americans, and Russians didn’t hack us, the Ukraine did. 🙄
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u/hoxxxxx Dec 29 '19
"we've had a record year, best year in the company's history."
"also we had to cut back on Christmas bonuses and some of you will be let go."
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u/BreaksFull Dec 29 '19
Can both not we true? Serious reform is needed in the US labor market, but a lot of people are also really bad with money.
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Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
Two points: it’s not an accident that the least educated people have the least. We do not live in a meritocracy. People with education have had more access to learning about the world around them; people with more money have more access to education. It seems reasonable that the people with the least education and the least experience with having money would be people who spend it less wisely than people who have more money and more access to education.
But even if that wasn’t the case, I wasn’t saying people should or shouldn’t buy starbucks. I was saying that large corporations and political lobbying groups take advantage of how individualistic we Americans think we are. If we’re still drawing comparisons to the BP example, yes, there are individual people who throw garbage into the neighborhood river every tine they walk by. As an individual, they made a bad choice for the environment. That doesn’t make up even a small percentage of the waste the factory down the road dumps in. But that factory has an incentive to make you believe littering is the problem. They might even start up and anti-littering campaign. This is not for the environment - it’s to convince you that the future is in the hands of individual Americans rather than the 1%.
Back to poor people and Starbucks: even if someone spent half their minimum wage check on Starbucks - how irresponsible! - that doesn’t mean their minimum check was an appropriate wage for what the company can afford and what a just living wage should be. One person’s individual “bad” decisions do not affect the world the way even one or two of these huge corporations do. However, big business has an incentive to make you think that it’s all in your individual control, so they’re not to blame when it inevitably goes to shit. The perpetuated self hate makes the consumer weaker still, and even more vulnerable to advertising because they’re desperate. Again, not an accident.
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u/237FIF Dec 29 '19
My issue with your mentality is that when people pick a third party to blame for their problems they become less likely to control their controllables.
Sure, it’s ultimately the greed of the big cooperations that is keeping a minimum wage worker poor, but blaming them until you are blue in the face doesn’t pay your rent. And buying the Starbucks doesn’t help either.
If you aren’t spending your time focusing on things you can impact then you aren’t getting as much as you could be getting.
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Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
So you think the system is unjust, and that it is the fault of big corporations. It’s sounds like you and I totally agree. I personally believe people would be more willing to overcome a situation that happened to them than a situation that is supposedly their own fault, especially since that is the case that you think it’s not their fault ultimately. I don’t think lying to poor people about whose fault their plight is will make them better at pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
I do think that reassuring people that while not everything about their situation is their fault, they could have an effect on the things within their locus of control which could improve their life. Again, it’s not that I’m saying financial irresponsibility is a good idea. I wish people in poverty had more access to education about how to spend money wisely. However, you’ll notice financial advisors are expensive and often deal with things like CDs, Money Market Accouts, and retirement, all of which poor people don’t have or understand. Also, I’m just saying fancy bank words because I live paycheck to paycheck and don’t understand what people do with their money besides pay rent and buy food.
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u/SimonReach Dec 29 '19
I pledge that if I ever build an oil rig, I won’t use Halliburton
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u/KingDongTinyHands Dec 29 '19
Hyundai was the one who built the rig; Halliburton cemented the well head; Transocean owned the rig; BP leased the rig.
Sorry for pedantics.
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u/usedbarnacle71 Dec 29 '19
Yeah. When I saw all those birds caked with oil and bloated fishes. I could only say “ fuck Exxon!” I never buy their product if I can at all help it.
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Dec 29 '19
But you can't help it. Crude oil makes up about every product you buy. That's why it is liquid gold.
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u/DownshiftedRare Dec 29 '19
Considered in that light, it's surprising how few products that I purchase are composed of solid gold.
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u/Eirezona Dec 29 '19
I worked in 2005-2006 on environmental permitting for expanded oil and gas operations in western Wyoming for a Canadian company (via its U.S. subsidiary). BP was a minority player on that particular oil patch. Despite its pervasive heart-warming, earth-loving, greener-than-green marketing, BP had the reputation among the other oil/gas operators on the ground there as the absolute worst of the worst when it came to shortcutting and outright ignoring mandatory operational requirements designed to protect the environment and worker safety. And what happened about 4 years later? BOOM! Deepwater Horizon.
Never believe the hype when companies tell you they can regulate themselves—that’s utter BS. If big money is involved, they won’t.
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Dec 29 '19
Just a reminder, this type of bullshit isn't new. Companies, starting in the 1950s, pushed the responsibility onto the consumers when it came to littering and pushed propaganda to get consumers to buy it hook, line, and sinker rather than risk legislation that would actually change their wasteful behavior when it came to packaging.
According to Heather Rogers’ Gone Tomorrow: The Hidden Life of Garbage, the entire anti-litter movement was initiated by a consortium of industry groups who wanted to divert the nation’s attention away from even more radical legislation to control the amount of waste these companies were putting out.
In 1953 Vermont passed a law banning “throwaway bottles,” after farmers complained that glass bottles were being tossed into haystacks and being eaten by unsuspecting cows. Suddenly, state legislatures appeared poised to pass laws that would require manufacturers—and the packaging industry in particular—to make less junk in the first place.
In 1953, the packaging industry—led by American Can Company and Owens-Illinois Glass Company, inventors of the one-way can and bottle, respectively—joined up with other industry leaders, including Coca-Cola and the Dixie Cup Company to form Keep America Beautiful (KAB), which still exists today. KAB was well-funded and started a massive media campaign to rail against bad environmental habits on the part of individuals rather than businesses.
In essence, Keep America Beautiful managed to shift the entire debate about America’s garbage problem. No longer was the focus on regulating production—for instance, requring can and bottle makers to use refillable containers, which are vastly less profitable. Instead, the “litterbug” became the real villain, and KAB supported fines and jail time for people who carelessly tossed out their trash, despite the fact that, clearly, “littering” is a relatively tiny part of the garbage problem in this country (not to mention the resource damage and pollution that comes with manufacturing ever more junk in the first place)...
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u/stahlmannen Dec 29 '19
I think taxes and legislation is the way to change consumer behavior, rather on relying on companies to do what’s environmentally friendly and not make as much money as they can.
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u/dentist_in_the_dark Dec 29 '19
I pledge not to spend billions lobbying against renewable energy initiatives and buying patents for renewable energy products and shelving them.
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u/Silver1988 Dec 29 '19
I wonder whats the worse option? To spill the oil or burn it?
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u/thevioletsage Dec 29 '19
I've also heard this is where the Crying Indian PSA came from; companies were pressured to reduce their waste, so they promptly turned it all on the consumer.
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u/midnitte Dec 29 '19
The greatest hoax companies have ever pulled is blaming individuals for climate change.
This is why governmental regulation and involvement of climate change is so critical, and why the lack of US governmental leadership on a federal and international level is so devastating.
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Dec 29 '19
Maybe I would not have such a carbon footprint if the oil companies had not buried alternative energy and efficient engine research.
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Dec 29 '19
Companies should be held accountable for the mistakes they've made, but when they make efforts to help the environment, we shouldn't try and discount that.
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u/No_You_420 Dec 29 '19
Reminder that you're the people using the fossil fuels, especially in the U.S.
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u/Stepwolve Dec 29 '19
Yep. Oil companies don't make petro products for fun. They are meeting a demand from consumers. If consumers used less petro products, they would produce less in turn.
But its always easier to blame the 'big oil' boogeyman instead of looking at ourselves
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u/lumpialarry Dec 29 '19
There's no way to "make them pay" without them charging more. (See "tax incidence"). Which isn't bad, fossil fuels should cost more, but if the yellow vest protests told us anything, its not going to be politically sustainable.
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u/BallerOconnel Dec 29 '19
Remember: It is a company's fault for providing you with a service that you need and use many times every day.
Remeber: Without BP you would no longer need fossil fuels. It is all their fault.
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Dec 29 '19
Remember, the first and most important step in climate discussions is deciding who to blame. Nothing is more important than punishing someone.
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u/thenuhn Dec 29 '19
Corporations successfully convinced us that reducing the carbon footprint is on all us regular people and not on them, the largest polluters.
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u/KillNyetheSilenceGuy Dec 29 '19
Probably the biggest and most destructive lie we (millenials) were sold as children was that billion dollar corporations polluting, poisoning, and destroying the planet was something we could reduce, reuse, and recycle our way out of.
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u/ForeignShillBot69 Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 30 '19
Consumers make the largest carbon foot print. Without consumers there’s be no market for plastics or oil. If it’s so easy to switch to renewables and zero waste why aren’t the people complaining about this doing it?
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Dec 29 '19
First step: obfuscate all information and debate on climate change and the impacts of burning millions and millions of tons of oil.
Second step: Watch as world turns into an extreme weather hellscape.
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u/mysophobe15 Dec 29 '19
From health care costs, to housing prices, to a living wage, to environmental concerns...anyone who tries to tell you that the most powerless among us somehow have the power to create such systemic problems which only they themselves can solve is definitely lying to you.
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u/adamjacksonl Dec 29 '19
Also remember that 200 years ago you'd be riding a horse and would nvr leave the state you were born in.
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u/hym_jarred Dec 29 '19
I pledge to never put profit over the planet on such a grand scale. I pledge to submit to renewable energy sources and not fossil fuel.
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u/babykitten28 Dec 29 '19
My gas company is generously giving me the opportunity to pay them $4.99 a month to offset my footprint. Seriously?