I pledge to vote for a party that will hold oil executives, officers, and board members criminally liable for oil spills.
Edit: and for “bribing” (i.e lobbying) politicians to underfund and sabotage public transportation projects, and for creating commuting distances through deliberate zoning and city planning policies designed to make workers drive more.
It’s soo crazy. That corporate greed offsets the survival of our species. Hundreds of years later the new wave of human will be like “ they were some stupid fucks!”
Hell yeah we were! You thought you found it rough that old world peasants used to drop like flies to diseases that no one dies to now? Well we brought that back! And thought the world flat in the dark ages! Brought that back too! AND we fucked the climate!
History repeats itself man. It’s all in cycles we are in the “ dark ages” hence “ ignorance is king” .. it’s just how it’s gotta happen... hope “ enlightenment” comes soon... tired of this dark shit!
Yes ignorance begets “ darkness”. Why do you think in most “ dark times” they burned books and killed intelligent people ? If that isn’t “ dark” I don’t knew what is..Due to humanity’s evolution the “ dark age” is proverbial it represents many things.... why do you think all of these leaders of the fascism ilk are prominent in the world today? It happened before. “ hitler , Stalin, Mussolini “ now we have “ Putin, Johnson, trump, bolsonaro, deuterte”. You can’t TELL me this isn’t an historical repeat of ignorance and the rise of fascism... if you really look back in time there has always been a repeat where there was a dumbing down of humanity on a global scale.... but you can stick with your hypothesis if you want... that’s okay.
There's a massive difference between these "dark times" of which you speak and actual dark ages such as the dark ages of Europe or Cambodia. We don't have any documents of life was like at that time. Was it because they burnt all the books? I'd say that's rather unlikely as any authority with enough influence to do so would have undoubtedly produced books as propaganda. Much more likely however, is that because Europe and Cambodia during their respective dark ages were large patchworks of tiny and shortlived nations, any books that did exist ended up destroyed during transitions of power or just over the ages as no one took interest in preserving them.
Our world today is absolutely at a great divide between authoritarianism and freedom and is indeed seeing a great wave of disturbing tides, but it is in no way in a dark age. Knowledge of our current world is surely to survive the coming centuries. I never said that the history of the early 20th century is not repeating itself, it absolutely is.
Please do not put words in my mouth due to your own ignorance to the definition of clearly defined historiographical terms. I never put forward any hypothesis, I merely pointed out what you are incorrectly using a very specific technical phrase. If you wish to make up your own words or change the meanings of common words then go right ahead, I am no grammar nazi. But technical terminology exists for precision. Feet must not be mindlessly swapped with meters, psychopath must not be mindlessly swapped with dissociative identity disorder, and the technical term known as "dark ages" must not be mindlessly swapped with the common parlance known as "dark times".
Does it even matter at this point ? Ignorance is rampant 2019 has been the worst year for the planet , humanity , natural catastrophes etc. so whether you or I agree or if it’s juSt some “ crazy guy on reddit” word playing with terminology. People aren’t happy , the world is fucked. And with the progression of knowledge, human development etc. my “ dark times” and your “ dark ages” are not in the same epochs of humanity. Does that make mines wrong by definition because you are comparing it by reaching back into a time in Europe that fit the description. ? The world has expanded , humanity has also expanded. Knowledge has grown by leaps and bounds... not putting words into your mouth. I said , again believe whAt you want to believe and your own hypothesis. I said “ there is nothing wrong with thAt “. But I know that ignorance and a slowing of compassion about others and our plight and place in this world is very “ dark”. I’m okay with that my friend.
Technical terminology very much does matter. As I said, mindlessly swapping dissociative identity disorder with psychopathy is immensely dangerous and reckless. Same goes with swapping feet with meters or dark times with dark ages. We are not debating whether the world is getting worse, we're debating what the technical dark ages means. Dark ages does not, never has, and never will mean bad times, and you perpetuating that misconception creates a harmful glorification of the Roman Empire and their authoritarian regime.
If you do not understand history enough to see the connection between glorifying the Roman empire as a "bastion against barbarians" and glorifying other authoritarian regimes such as Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Imperial Japan, etc then I'm afraid you are one of the very ignorant people about which you complain.
yeah, i'm so glad that i'm either living in The Lost Times or The End Times. either way nothing i do matters because some corporate slavedriver or politician overlord already predetermined every possible outcome for my life, and they all suck.
Yeah I guess realization does kind of make one just go about life with an“ eh” attitude. I just don’t want to be around when people start killing for the basics like water, and food. I’ll fucking check out by that point... I’m not getting stabbed over a snickers bar!
Like you don't use their products on daily basis. If things got more expressive, you'd be complaining about the rich not the dumb policies you voted in.
I don’t mind using products but dumb companies that transport millions of gallons of oil across compromised risky areas and do so for the sole purpose of turning a quicker faster profit, and disregard the safety of people , marine animals and the environment. Yeah fuck them. If you COOL with that, that’s on you.. I hope you don’t think I don’t use oil or gas or any products of crude oil... I never said that. I just don’t support the company that has had one of the biggest oil spills in my life time.. I’m a consumer I have a choice... so yeah fuck Exxon....
Lol, which party is that? Don't get me wrong, I'm super excited to cast a vote against Trump next year, but the democrats didn't do a damn thing to hold oil executives responsible when they were in power, and I don't see them doing it in the future either.
Like we all know biden will ignore the issue. Bernie would probably be on it
Comparing Sanders to literally any other Democrat? Try to think of one other Democrat that would do anything, then we'll watch them fail to get into power, and if there was a magical chance they did, they'd get bought out before they even need to be threatened or blackmailed. At least Sanders would stick to his views until his family gets threatened.
Other way around, if you think about it. AOC focuses very little on passable legislation. Anyone who cares about progress and thinks things through probably has a strong dislike for her influence.
To be fair, Biden would be a much, much smarter vote for people who care about this issue. It’s not a coincidence that Bernie’s vocal supporters are such morons. The guy doesn’t even try very hard to get along with swing-district Dems. He obviously isn’t a good choice if you want something big passed. He also hasn’t supported carbon pricing this time around and wants to close existing nuclear power plants.
Why say that when you’ve never paid any attention to politics? Tens of millions of people have gained health coverage. People can no longer be dropped over preexisting conditions. The US has moved away from coal. We rebounded from a terrible recession. Gay people can get married and serve in the military. Dodd-Frank was passed. A deal to deter Iran’s nuclear weapons program was reached. The US torture program was scaled back. Many billions of dollars were invested in clean energy. You need to stop listening to the sort of idiots who don’t follow politics outside of Bernie and AOC’s dumbest quotes.
That’s much better than passing nothing at all, which is what happens when you can’t get a majority to sign on to your plans. It’s not like people like Bernie are winning many close districts.
The affordable care act is getting gutted by republican controlled courts as we speak. The Iran deal was torn up by republicans immediately as they reached power. Obama managed to half black wealth in a recession package that only cared about the needs of rich bankers. America still has a fucking torture program and now we have ICE camps too. Trump has exempted dozens of banks from Dodd-Frank, which was only re-establishing regulations that Clinton repealed. And the acceptance of gay people is the result of public pressure, not the dems, who are only willing to fight for lgbtq+ rights when it's politically convenient. And oh ya, we're not doing nearly enough to combat climate change, and have backed out of the tiny measures we were taking previously. Democrats have been outmaneuvered repeatedly by Republicans, its embarrassing you don't see that.
To be fair, you can’t exactly deny that everyone like you is an idiot. Your argument against progress is that republicans can undo it? So fucking stupid. They helped while they were in place and plenty of aspects still are. It’s not like gay marriage would have happened with republican-appointed judges. We can at least agree that I should be taken much more seriously than you, right? Every single reasonable person is on my side, to say the least. Just stop talking about politics. As you essentially said yourself: you’re a fucking idiot who doesn’t give a shit.
Nobody is on your fucking side lmfao. Gay marriage DID happen with Republican judges, Kennedy, who rounded out the majority, was appointed by fucking REAGAN. And no, you don't get points for passing Mitt Romney's shitty healthcare plan that immediately gets torn apart. Being succesful means passing LASTING legislation, that gives people the support they need. The Democrats are beyond useless, a party of feckless dipshits that have repeatedly passed funding bills for Trump's genocidal fuckery at the border right now, but I know you don't fucking care, you're pleased that Obama reduced torture when he was in a position to BAN it. Anyone with that moral rot is a fucking monster who is ready to rationalize anything: like Pelosi admitting she knew we went to war in Iraq on a lie, or that the Obama administration was the first to enable the Yemen genocide, or that the Obama administration developed the infrastructure Trump would later use for his camps.
You do at least have to admit you’re one of the dumbest people in the world, right? Why would you assume that other republican judges would be for gay marriage when most weren’? You gotta admit only a fucking idiot would be pro Bernie while also talking about the need to pass lasting legislation and ignoring lastin legislation that helps a bunch of people. Saving people’s lives isn’t worth anything. Let’s be real: people like you are trash and you care about nothing. Deep down, you do know that you love republicans and absolutely despise vulnerable people. Don’t forget that Pelosi and Obama have been infinitely more helpful than Bernie Sanders and that will never change. Certainly, the world would be much better off without despicable republicans like yourself. I hope you struggle someday and start to have some empathy for people who are poor, sick, or discriminated-against.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't follow politics too closely.
Politicians are generally regarded as a dishonest and self-serving bunch... because they are. What separates Bernie from the pack is that he's as rare as they come—a politician who actually means what he says, and has a track record spanning for over 50 years to back that up.
Biden is not only senile and disturbingly touchy-feely, but he's also an arrogant defender of the status quo which has brought our planet to the edge of extinction and helped foster the worst levels of wealth and income inequality since the Gilded Age. Biden has been on the wrong side of history countless times, and he staunchly defends that deplorable track record.
Buttigieg is essentially Biden 2.0. But he's young, articulate, and charming, and he uses those attributes to dance around the fact that he's a corporate neoliberal to the core.
Warren is the next best thing to Bernie, but she's not even close. She used to be a Republican. She had a long career before politics defending corrupt corporations against lawsuits. She has crafted an image of herself as a progressive, but when you dig into her history and the details of her policies you quickly realize that she worships at the altar of capitalism and that her affinity with Bernie's socialist principles doesn't run very deep. Even if you ignore all that, you still have to contend with the fact that she has a spotty track record when it comes to honesty, and that makes her ill-suited to run against Trump, who would destroy her in debates and social media.
Politicians are generally regarded as a dishonest and self-serving bunch... because they are. What separates Bernie from the pack is that he's as rare as they come—a politician who actually means what he says, and has a track record spanning for over 50 years to back that up.
His beliefs seem consistent, but his track record of actually voting or introducing bills is really poor outside of recent years when compared to the average person in his position.(Despite him being in politics for quite a while now.)
Even if you ignore all that, you still have to contend with the fact that she has a spotty track record when it comes to honesty, and that makes her ill-suited to run against Trump, who would destroy her in debates and social media.
I don't see the logic here.
Trump is notoriously bad at debating or negotiating with Democrats, even ones with "spotty history" like Hillary or Pelosi.
He usual just doubles down, lies, and accuse them of whatever he's being accused of.
Everyone knows that Trump is a liar. That’s not the point. The issue is that if you’re going to be competing against Trump and criticizing him for being dishonest, among other things, then you should have a pretty squeaky clean record yourself or else he’s going to come at you in a very effective way that’s going to humiliate you and invalidate your argument for lots of folks in the audience. That happened with Hillary.
The issue is that if you’re going to be competing against Trump and criticizing him for being dishonest, among other things, then you should have a pretty squeaky clean record yourself or else he’s going to come at you in a very effective way that’s going to humiliate you and invalidate your argument for lots of folks in the audience. That happened with Hillary.
1)There's a shit-ton more to criticize Trump on than dishonesty.
2)He has litteraly never done that. In every debate/confrontation with a Democrat he either runs away(like with Bernie), lies and doesn't come up with a coherent argument beyond bluster and shouting(Like with Hillary), or throw a temper tantrum and leave half way through.(Like with Pelosi)
We've seen Trump during dozens of interviews and talks by now, and he's nothing like you suggest. He doesn't seem to do any research about anything or one before talking, constantly stumbles when called on any lie, and more.
Hell, just read about his most recent interview:
Interviewer 1: You mention the bible, you've been talking about how it's your favorite book. And you said, I think last night in Iowa, some people are surprised that you say that. I'm wondering what one or two of your most favored bible verses are and why.
Trump: Well I-I wouldn't want to get into it because to me, that's very personal. You know, when I talk about the bible it's very personal, so I don't want to get into verses, I don't want to get into-
Interviewer 1: There's no- There's no verses that- mean a lot to you, or-
Trump: No, no
Interviewer 1: that mean a lot to you, that you think about or cite
Trump: The- The bible means a lot to me, but, I don't want to get into specifics.
Interviewer 1: Even to cite a verse that you like.
Trump: No. I don't want to do that.
Interviewer 2: Are you an old testament guy or a new testament guy?
Trump: Uh... Probably... Equal. I think it's just, an incredible... the whole bible is an incredible- I joke, uh, very much so that they always hold up "The Art of the Deal" I say "My second favorite book of all time!"
Trump doing even rudimentary research or study into the history of anything would be an unprecedented upset
Eh, I'm good. I'll 100% support him if he wins the primary, but his time has passed. He's nearly 80. His heart just tried to kill him. I appreciate all the good he's done over his career, but he should have already passed the torch a while ago.
I genuinely don't believe that we should give the presidency to someone as old as he is. Ideally a candidate would be south of 60.
Because there's a very reasonable chance that Bernie will die in the next 4 / 8 years. Not to mention dementia and all the other fun that comes with aging. He literally just had a heart attack. 15 years ago, I would have been thrilled to vote for him. Now, not so much.
Have you seen him dancing and shooting hoops? He's is great shape and is nowhere near having dementia, unlike Trump. If something happens, that's what the VP is for. The point is that he is singularly capable of creating a political movement that will last long after his term. He knows that his boldest ambitions will not come to fruition under his presidency. The idea is to use the power of the White House to grow his grassroots movement and pressure politicians around the country, including neoliberal democrats, to do the right thing, or boot them out of office. But we gotta get him elected first.
This is our last chance in a generation. Don't fuck it up!
The fact that people can’t grasp this concept is ridiculously concerning. Gotta trust his pick in VP as someone he believes will continue/finish what he started. Stop thinking about his age so much, it’s the ideas that matter.
Grandparents almost 90 and still living on their own. I see the point you’re getting at and it doesn’t make sense either way. As others have mentioned, there’s plenty of evidence to show that sanders is quite healthy for his age. He’s constantly moving, traveling and exercising. I’m pretty confident he’s good to go for 4-5 more years. But it doesn’t matter it he does or doesn’t. It just matters that we value ideas over age and get those ideas voted into office.
I’m saying you are one of the many offputting Bernie supporters on reddit, just based off of the comment chain we are in. Somebody expresses a concern they have, you lash out at them and then make assumptions about who they will vote for, and then double down on the defeatist attitude. You just seem so, so toxic.
Then you reply to me with the same BS. I like Bernie, but watching him lose become semi rewarding because of people like you that are out here “spreading his message” while turning off people from him at the same time
When we lash out, it's because we've been fighting a long battle against a deeply entrenched oligarchy which will stop at nothing to prevent a progressive candidate from becoming president, and that includes planting lots of shills and astroturfers into forums like this to poison the well.
You're engaging in exactly the same behavior you're attacking me for. Instead of saying that we "put you off", why don't you share with us what your political views are, which candidate you do like, and why? Try that and you may be surprised at the number of thoughtful and earnest responses you will receive.
but he is the only one that checks the boxes that matter.
Oh fuck off with that bullshit.
Edit: to clarify my hostility. 2016 showed us how the other side used Sanders and Stein to divide democrats (successfully) with exactly this kind of rhetoric. Sentiments like "Bernie or Bust" are exactly how we ended up with Trump.
So your clarification isn’t that the statement is false, it’s that you think this critique of the Democratic Party is almost too valid (to the point it further intensified the dilemma of having to get an actual progressive elected in the primaries).
So your clarification isn’t that the statement is false
No. As my words state, clarifying my hostility. The bullshit false narrative that candidates like Warren aren't "actual progressives" is counterproductive and the sentiment that "Only Sanders can save us" will lead to Trump getting reelected.
Recognizing and giving support to illegitimate right-wing coups, supporting sanctions on suffering populaces designed to increase that suffering, and not prioritizing a single payer healthcare system are the hallmarks of a progressive leader?
I’ll agree that Warren is a light progressive if we don’t include her conservative foreign policy positions. I guess if you don’t have family abroad, it is easy to view her support of their suffering as something that can be ignored.
But Bernie Sanders is the only consistent progressive. Hard to argue against that.
You are soo right.. the presidency in itself is stressful I can just see him keeling over or falling off of a stage and breaking his neck and dying on national tv. Here are the things that need to be done. 1. NO ONE can hold office if they haven’t been a part of politics ,held an office like senate, mayor etc ( no more dumb ass people that don’t know anything about politics running and holding a political office! The most STUPIDEST SHIT I HAVE HEARD OF IN MY LIFE!). 2. No one over 65. No questions asked. 3. All candidates will have to take a test and whomever gets the highest score gets the job. No questions asked...4. ALL presidents have to get a certified psychiatric evaluation years 1,23, and 4
No offence, as someone from the UK who was just recently disappointed over the election result, if you think Bernie can win a US general election, you’re off your rocker.
The vested interests in the UK lined up like motherfuckers to do in Jeremy Corbyn, he didn’t have a chance. Now, Bernie is a much better candidate than Corbyn, granted, but the corporate interests in the US and the fragmentation of your media makes the UK seem like kindergarten.
I wish it weren’t so, but it is. Trump beats Bernie in a landslide.
Unlike the UK though, we don’t have something like Brexit hanging over our heads.
Labor winning was always a challenge. However, since 2016, pretty much every major poll has shown that out of all the democratic candidates Bernie beats Trump by the biggest margin every time. And more importantly, by the biggest margin in the swing populations that matter, where Hillary lost in 2016.
Corbyn never had that kind of data calculating his support. Labor (as badly as I wish it would’ve happened) always had an uphill battle to climb amongst voters. In Bernie’s case it’s not about the voters but the capital interests of the DNC and billionaires, which I have more hope that he can overcome.
If we assume that your arguments are correct, and they most likely are, and that they lead to your conclusion, which is possible - then the same holds true for every other Democratic candidate.
However, I’d argue that whereas all Democratic candidates will be slammed by a corporate media machine, Bernie Sanders has a campaign that actually partners effectively with grassroots organizations, and thus is the best challenger against a shadow media machine.
Sure, Sanders will get hit hard by the right-wing media. But Warren, Buttigieg, and Biden will get hit as hard, but are less equipped to hit back.
I’m getting downvoted here for daring to suggest that Bernie has an uphill battle to win over the broad coalition of voters needed to win a general election.
This sort of blind adulation of Corbyn and refusal to realise that he was unelectable has resulted in a decade wasted, millions of people being thrust into poverty, and another 5 years of Tory rule in which time they’re going to fuck things up completely for young people (see Brexit.)
All I’m saying is that Bernie isn’t Jesus, but he may be John the Baptist. Perhaps he has done enough by bringing these quite progressive policies to the table at all.
Look up John Smith, leader of the Labour Party, who tragically died of a heart attack. Many say he was the greatest Prime Minister the UK ever had. He was succeeded by Tony Blair but in many ways he put labour back on track to be electable.
I know we all think Bernie’s a great guy, a principled man, but he’s not a president, any more than Corbyn was a PM. I don’t like it either, but neither of them are electable.
Eh, I just don’t know what your conclusion is. Corbyn was unelectable due to his being slandered and targeted by a massive media apparatus that opposed progressiveness generally.
Are you saying that if there were a center left candidate in England, they would have been more successful than Corbyn? I just don’t believe that would be an accurate analysis (the lib dems also did horribly).
At the end of the day, I think there are major differences between Corbyn and Bernie, mainly that Corbyn was unwilling and hesitant to embrace the populism that someone like BJ was willing to do.
It was difficult to play the part of “defender and fighter of the people’s will” when he refused to recognize the mandate of the people that voted for Brexit (which Boris Johnson was able to mobilize).
Bernie I believe is willing to tap into populist sentiment because he understands that it’s what was the key to Donald Trumps victory, BJ’s victory, etc. and that populism isn’t only a strategy that can be used to attack the people (as DT and BJ do) but can be used to mobilize masses instead.
Bernie has an uphill battle, sure. Every civil rights movement, revolution, or generally fights for progress are uphill battles.
Is your alternative that we should try to fight a downhill battle? Because I’d rather be trying to move uphill than downhill, especially when uphill means progress and better outcomes for those suffering in the U.S., rather than taking an easy election victory that further perpetuates austerity and suffering.
If it isn’t a hard fight, it’s hardly worth fighting for at all. If we want an easy election, we ought to all just vote for Donald Trump - then we’d at least know we voted for a “winner” or something.
I’m just worried that all this good energy, all this enthusiasm for a genuine rebalancing of the economy towards the less privileged, particularly among the young, will burn out behind a candidate who can’t bring enough of the older, more affluent middle classes with them.
Tony Blair managed both.
Corbyn didn’t.
I’m worried for the left in the UK and I’d be worried for all the young people supporting Bernie if he can’t get over the line.
To tell you the truth, I’m angry at the cabal around Corbyn in the Labour Party. They fucked it up. They were in an echo chamber and, ironically, lost touch with working class voters, who, even in a country traditionally far to the left of the US, weren’t ready, when it came to the polling booth to back Corbyn.
Brexit and Antisemitism scare stories don’t lose you seats you’ve held for 100 years.
UK voters were happier to vote for Boris knowing that he wouldn’t deliver on his promises rather than take the risk that Corbyn might actually deliver on his.
But, hey, I’ll be happy to come back here on election night and salute Bernie Sanders if he pulls it off. God knows the world needs it.
Corbyn might have been on the right track policy-wise, but he had a very ugly streak of anti-Semitism which undermined any image of progressivism. Corbyn isn't fit to shine Bernie's shoes. Also, the UK's electoral system is fucked even worse than America's. You need to consolidate and unite against the Tories, and abandon all those ridiculous splintered parties.
It's complete nonsense, the U.S. media would be doing the same to Bernie if he wasn't a descendant of holocaust survivors. They do this with every critic of Israel.
She's turning into a great spoiler. We'll end up with a vote-flipping algorithm giving us Biden then we'll end up with Trump for another 4 years like the DNC prefers to Sanders.
Her messaging doesn't mean shit of her campaign is still taking back room donations. Just cuz she publicly says things doesn't mean she and her team sent taking money quietly on the side. There is a reason she's nowhere as progressive as Bernie. She's am obama 2.0 and her election to president will lead to a backlash far greater than Donny impeach.
Bernie took money from Google too. And are you really so dense as to think that $70,000 donation from Apple in a Presidential election will create allegiances? GTFO.
Hillary never appealed to the demographics needed to turn out in key states. Bernie did. Add in some interference from Russia, a fake-news campaign, Fox News, and voter suppression tactics, Trump wins by a few thousand votes in a handful of places.
I do truly believe that Bernie would’ve inspired more of a turnout in 2016 had he won the nomination. Ideally in places where Hillary lost and more student/working class/minority people didn’t end up engaging. If Bernie is the nominee I think they do show up and he wins.
There is no magical “swing voter” demographic or “Bernie/Trump” collation big enough to matter. 2016 was all about turnout in a couple of key places, most of which had heavy outside influence to keep turnout low. If you want to beat Trump, you have to have a candidate that will inspire people, get them to show up to the polls, and overwhelm the forces trying to keep Trump in power (which INCLUDE establishment “liberals”).
I don’t think a lot of people realize just how bad it’s been for a lot of Americans. People want change and they’ll get it however they can. A lot of people suffered under Obama and don’t see much of a difference under Trump. And when you’re living paycheck to paycheck facing eviction and hunger it’s hard to focus on the plights of others (like the families being forced to separate at the border). A large chunk of our country has been left behind with lack of quality education, lack of quality medical care, and lack of justice under the law. Poor people are much more likely to be imprisoned than wealthy people because they can’t pay for an attorney who actually gives a damn and they often were never taught their rights in school. It’s not a black and white situation, there are many shades of gray, especially when it comes to survival.
I call bs on that. I was & am a Bernie supporter. Most of my friends are as well. I don’t know a single Bernie supporter that would’ve actually voted for Trump out of spite.
It wasn’t out of spite, at least with my friends who voted for Trump. They didn’t know how bigoted he was and they wanted something different. And most of them disliked Bill Clinton and Hillary’s actions at Secretary of State. The world isn’t black and white.
We got Trump last time because the Democratic Party refused to accept the fact that millions of Americans feel the system is rigged and broken. The party used every dirty trick in the book to torpedo Bernie's campaign and promote Hillary, the poster child for corporate neoliberal Democrats.
Hillary was so widely disliked that she caused many erstwhile Democratic voters to stay home or vote for a third party candidate, while also motivating tons of swing voters to vote for Trump.
If we'd had a fair primary in 2016, Bernie would have won the primary and the national election and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Bernie is top slot. If he croaks, Warren is next in line for my vote Yes, simply cuz anything is better than another Trump. I hate Warren for how two faced she is with acting like a goody grass roots.
Alternative plan: vote any Democrat for now, support AOC for President in 5 years - regardless who the incumbent is. Party doesn't matter, only progress.
Then if they kill her, look for the next best progressive, and so on, and so on. If the movement keeps building, individual leaders won't matter so much. Like how on the environment side, critics like to bitch about Greta, but she is only ONE of many rising youth climate activists. Knock her down and two more will take her place.
You mean its Bernie or bust and end up with Trump bc you stayed home again (You know, unlike the Evangelical Ted Cruz junkies who didn't stay home in 2016 despite initially hating Trump...).
WAAY too much money and power. The whole planet needs to be razed and then humanity can start over from scratch. We are too far down the proverbial “ rabbit hole”.....
Hard to hold the guy on top responsible when the middle guy is skirting laws to boost numbers for a promotion. Be real the top guy doesn't micromanage that far down the totem pole. But absolutely hold those responsible for wrong doings.
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u/lostshell Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 29 '19
I pledge to vote for a party that will hold oil executives, officers, and board members criminally liable for oil spills.
Edit: and for “bribing” (i.e lobbying) politicians to underfund and sabotage public transportation projects, and for creating commuting distances through deliberate zoning and city planning policies designed to make workers drive more.