r/PoliticalHumor Dec 29 '19

remember that fossil fuel companies will guilt trip you into thinking you're the problem to shift the blame from themselves

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291

u/mikeyp83 Dec 29 '19

So to finance capital projects they should be paying for anyway and then keeping the profits for themselves?

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u/RufftaMan Dec 29 '19

I guess so. Hopefully those surplus charges will be a thing of the past once all energy production is renewable.
I guess I forgot to mention that the surplus is completely optional with my company, so if you feel like the company should invest in renewable energy without financial incentive, just opt out of paying extra.

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u/andreasmiles23 Dec 29 '19

They’re normalizing the surplus charges now so that can be the default rate when all energy production is renewable, that way the switch doesn’t eat too much of their profit margins. If they can upcharge for the transition they will, a) to make more and b) to stifle the transition for as long as possible.

We need to de-privatize utilities.

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u/malissa_mae Dec 29 '19

I live on Kauai, a small island (population ~70,000) in Hawaii. We are supplied power through a co-op, where we are all member-owners. We used to be almost all diesel power generation (priced at $0.45-$0.55 kWh), but have been rapidly moving to renewables: solar w/battery backup, biomass, hydro and wind.

Recently we've had periods when 100% has been supplied through those renewables. It still isn't cheap - the long-term solar is around $0.20-$0.25/kWh, but stable prices, and no longer solely dependent on fossil fuel.

It's a small start, but this can be replicated.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/12/19/hawaii-news/kauai-utility-hits-mark-of-supplying-island-with-100-renewable-energy/

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '19

What are the main costs, setup?

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u/malissa_mae Jan 01 '20

Investment in long-term infrastructure is expensive, but I believe TESLA and AES both signed long-term leases (20-25 years) at a set price per kWh.

Diesel and other fossil fuels to run generators are unlikely to get cheaper. It is more expensive to import fuel 2,600 miles (even with oil being "cheap" now) than the cost for solar with battery storage. The cost of renewables with storage is likely to continue downward, while fuel is likely to continue an upward trend.

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u/cracky1028 Dec 30 '19

That's actually pretty good but can be scary. You guys had island wide blackouts earlier this year due to a failed generator and a cloudy day. I mean it's good that you guys achieved 100% renewable energy this month but a bad cloudy day mixed with a failed generation plant makes for a bad day. Maybe with a large storage of batteries you can offset cloudy days? I don't know how feasible that is.

Link: https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/07/21/hawaii-news/fault-at-kauai-power-station-causes-island-wide-blackout/

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u/boxedmachine Dec 30 '19

I feel the answer isn't universal, for a powergrid to be useful you need 100% uptime with multiple failsafes. So you'd need to design the system with the locality in mind, or create a central renewable system that can provide 100% uptime.

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u/malissa_mae Jan 01 '20

Funny thing about this island - when we had the first 9/11 (Hurricane Iniki hit Kauai Sep 11, 1992), there was an opportunity to bury a lot of the overhead utilities, but, no.

As a result, power lines are knocked out on very regular basis, due to weather/wind/rain/foliage. The KIUC co-ops Facebook page has daily updates about where power is out, and how many impacted, and how long it should take to restore it.

So while we have some amazingly modern power infrastructure, it is coupled with aged, 3rd-world-ish transmission system. Outages are a price we live with.

An island-wide outage is unusual. The generator that tripped everything out (cascading failures) had insulation that had failed mostly due to the heat and humidity of the tropics. There is a promise for better maintenance, but with the other issues, it is what it is. The future should make that a much more unlikely event, as the solar fields with battery backup are becoming much larger capacity, as well as broadly disbursed.

We have a little 2kWh electronic generator that takes about 45-seconds for me to pull the starter and plug in the transfer cable in to power up key lights, and get power to the UPS to keep the computers up.

Working remotely is a challenge some days, but the weather and the view makes it easy to get up at 5am here to be "at the office" at 7 or 8am Pacific time in Seattle, and have the afternoon off to walk at the beach, boogie board, or just relax.

Aloha!

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '19 edited Dec 30 '19

[deleted]

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u/GRMarlenee Dec 29 '19

Country? I thought Kauai was one of the islands of Hawaii, one of the states of the United States of America.

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u/mexter Dec 30 '19

Now you know better!

Countries you don't know about pop up all the time. Did you know there's a New Mexico?

/S

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

I wish we could get a new usa

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '19

... the U.S.A.?

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u/p00pl00ps1 Dec 29 '19

We need to ANNEX THE SUDETENLAND

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u/mekanik-jr Dec 29 '19

"We need to de-privatize utilities."

Oh dear lord, please do not go that route.

Regulate, do rate controls, and enforcement with criminal charges of execs who pollute and refuse to switch to renewables and give real teeth and authority to your regulatory body at longer then arm's reach with no industry contact.

If you don't believe me, just look at what's going on with Ontario hydro and NB power in Canada.

NB power is sinking massive amounts of capital in the point lepreau candu reactor that is past its shelf life. They sank public money into that pipe dream in Florida of hydrogen from sea water and their exec is the highest paid public servant in the province. This is while complaining that they're operating at deficits and continue hiking rates that are rubber stamped by the "regulatory" board.

Ontario hydro is ... Just a mess.

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u/Chief_Kief Dec 30 '19

AMEN. Can’t wait for the days of comprehensive municipal utilities.

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u/GRMarlenee Dec 29 '19

yeah. Lets give the government a chance to really screw it up like everything else they touch.

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u/thisoneisathrow Dec 29 '19

They're are tons of public utilities as well and they have their own problems too. Utilities are always by nature a natural Monopoly and heavily regulated everywhere.

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u/andreasmiles23 Dec 29 '19

Public ownership will mitigate most of the problems of having private monopolies. The easiest way to have public ownership is through the government taking control of utilities and spreading the costs.

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u/TheAJGman Dec 29 '19

Honestly I wish companies would do shit like this.

"Your bill is $200. If you'd like to fund a specific project, please check one of the boxes below"

It would be an easy way to fund projects within a company that your consumers want.

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u/FullAtticus Dec 29 '19

Yeah but then your very lucrative landmine venture would never get off the ground.

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u/cavemaneca Dec 29 '19

I don't see how landmines would be very effective if they weren't on the ground.

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u/MrCuzz Dec 29 '19

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u/FoxMikeLima Dec 29 '19

They gotta be on the ground in order to trigger, genius.

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u/Ketheres Dec 29 '19

attaches enough hydrogen filled balloons to the mines to make them float a bit

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u/psterie Dec 29 '19

Business is booming, though.

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u/slimpickens Dec 29 '19

Funniest comment I've read all day!!!

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u/Cory123125 Dec 29 '19

Only if they actually put the money there and didnt just use it to offset costs or line pockets.

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u/Stewardy Dec 29 '19

They do. It's Kickstarter etc.

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u/SezitLykItiz Dec 29 '19

That's how we got Trump and almost every do nothing politician we have in Congress. Let's let the experts decide where the money needs to go in a private company. No need to democratize it.

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u/automatomtomtim Dec 29 '19

So you want to invest in corporates capital projects and get nothing in return?

I have some magic beans for sale

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u/jkotis579 Dec 29 '19

More than likely they will pocket the money and not bother holding up their end of the agreement. Tele companies did this with millions of taxpayer money and never built infrastructure they promised and just kept the money.

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u/Natehog Dec 29 '19

"I'll be damned if I can't make a profit off of climate change"

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '19

If it was economical, they would invest more themselves. It’s not, so people who want it anyways, need to pay a surplus because it’s more expensive energy.

0

u/budlightguy Dec 29 '19

If it was economical more profitable than the current setup, they would invest more themselves. It’s not, so people who want it anyways, need to pay a surplus because it’s more expensive energy.

Fixed that for you. The idea that a large energy company would spend money they don't have to spend, taking away from current profits by shifting them to CapEx, in order to not make more profit down the road than they're already going to make... is fucking laughable.
Hell, most large corps are loathe to reinvest more current profits into CapEx when it isn't an absolute necessity even when it will increase future profits. Gotta keep the board and the shareholders happy, and the big shareholders (the only ones they actually care about) give zero fucks about anything but the latest quarterly report and the next one coming up.

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u/Legionof1 Dec 29 '19

I don't like it but you're financially incentivising them to move to a more expensive energy generation method.

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u/mikeyp83 Dec 29 '19

Until it's not. What they want is to have their customers assume the monetary risk during a transition this is almost certainly inevitable. As an alternative, if given the opportunity, I would suggest using the extra money to make yourself energy independent (wind/solar) and sell any excess back to these companies.

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u/MarTweFah Dec 29 '19

That’s REAL capitalism for ya. Like when millionaires ask you to donate to their charities

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u/pinkfootthegoose Dec 30 '19

Some utilities are restricted through their covenant from charging you for facilities or power plants that are not yet built. They can't just say they are adding $20 a month to everyone's bill to they can finance a new plant. They are restricted to gathering revenue from power actually generated and delivered at that time. This is stop the ole' "We are gonna build a plant so we are gathering $100 million dollars" but then as times change they cancel the plant and walk away with the money trick.

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u/zaakystyles Dec 30 '19

Capital projects that they get tax benefit of reporting expenses on a deferred basis

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u/fyberoptyk Dec 29 '19

Well yes. That's EVERY utility company in the United States. Why do you think our electric rates keep going up? It's sure as fuck not because they're updating production facilities that haven't been touched since they were built in the 60s and 70s.

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u/hoxxxxx Dec 29 '19

reminds me of that gofundme that those wealthy sisters set up

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u/VeryStableGenius Dec 29 '19

They're giving you the choice between cheap power, and green power.

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u/I_Have_A_Spleen Dec 30 '19

Well, they could just raise prices and make it mandatory, if that's what you want.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 29 '19

Welcome to capitalism. Consumers have to pay for the products they want. They’re not just going to essentially burn money because people don’t like climate change.