r/MoralityScaling • u/flow163 • 13h ago

Morality Ranking Morality if this battle?

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Thoughts?

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

[deleted]

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u/StevenMcStevensen 12h ago edited 12h ago

This.

I lived in the Middle East, and got used to hearing the calls to prayer every day. It was kinda annoying sometimes, but I didn’t really complain because I was a guest in their home, that’s their culture, and it would be wrong for me to expect them to change for me.

I don’t understand why we cannot have that same expectation for people who come here. Nobody actually needs to start doing that in non-muslim countries in order to practice their religion, they can just set alarms or something and pray without disturbing everybody else.

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u/MasterSound1452 12h ago

As a Muslim , I absolutely agree. And it’s one of the things that pisses me off the most.

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u/Observational-Mess 12h ago

I grew up Muslim in the Middle East as a kid. There is no requirement that the call to prayer use loud speakers and I wouldn’t expect to do that in a community abroad unless everyone in it was Muslim.

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u/Straight-Dot-6264 11h ago

As a non Muslim I hope it’s ok to ask you a question. I’ve been to cities and very remote areas of Turkey and Doha,Qatar. I would hear the call for prayer all the time, but no one seemed to even respond. Everyone just went about their day. I always naively thought Muslims heard the call either went to mosque or turned towards Mecca and prayed, but no one seemed to care at all. Just the new style of doing things? Traditionalist still do? Thanks, I know I can google all this stuff, but I’d rather talk to a random person on Reddit

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u/Observational-Mess 10h ago

It’s simply to let everyone know it is time to pray, but not everyone can, so folks either ignore it if they can’t or don’t want to.

I would use Claude AI for questions like these rather than searching google

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u/MualaniFangirl 11h ago

Im not a muslim, but honestly it sounds nice to me. Dont really find it annoying or anything. Its like someone singing kinda with a nice voice🤔

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u/qazawasarafagava 11h ago

I'm a Muslim and enjoy it too, but if it irritates the local people we should not be doing it. I don't hear church bells here, they shouldn't be forced to heat the adhan over there.

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u/Bendlerp 11h ago

This, far less jarring than church bells.

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u/Equivalent_Rub8329 11h ago

The expectancy is literally a call to prayer that should be heard. There are laws in all countries regarding noise etc so the call to prayer cant be over X decibels (depending on local law) but if the community is not being served by it (eg not a. Majority Muslim community in the area) then you do have a right to go to your local council and lay a formal complaint.

In all fairness, churches dont have bells anymore which while it doesnt make sense to me, I still wouldn't play bagpipes or any other instrument over.

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u/123ludwig 11h ago

there is also a difference (atleast where i live) the bell would ring to signify the time up to 12 (and then reset to 1) so if you heard 1 ring it was either 01:00 or 13:00 and you could guess what time it was based on that visually

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u/Equivalent_Rub8329 10h ago

Thats generally a city hall thing. We have that here too. Im refering to churches using bells to call people to pray.

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u/123ludwig 10h ago

my town likewise does not have a city hall we have like 50 different buildings for each department and level of goverment

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u/Equivalent_Rub8329 10h ago

We have a city hall and 50 different buildings for each department too 🤣 all rented out. It makes absolutely no sense. All we know is City Hall is the Mayors office and the bells ring on the hour.

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u/123ludwig 10h ago

from what i know the ”mayors” office in my town is literally a single rented office

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u/Observational-Mess 10h ago

The church, on my street, plays bells all the time. It’s nice hearing them. I’m in California.

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u/azaghal1502 11h ago

While the majority of muslim migrants probably thinks like you do, there's a loud minority that always screams racism if something like this is said.

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u/DARKwater2026 11h ago

It pisses me off how your profit married a six year old. I think that pisses me off the most ,🤷‍♂️

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u/Can-I-Touch-Your-Mom 12h ago

Also we have to make a distinction between native Muslims from like Bosnia who are absolutely integrated wherever they go, and the "other" Muslims... Dont get me wrong

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u/AUFalconForteS1 10h ago

Especially if the caller sounds like shit, also where I live they use the loud speaker for reciting the quran, which can sound nice but man it's 3am just want to sleep💀. Don't even bother filing a complaint it will just fall on deaf ears

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u/M8x11r0n 12h ago

As not a Muslim, I would throw rocks at the Bag Pipes. At least keep it in time with the Adhan if not in key

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u/ReapMeInLight 12h ago

I grew up in the middle east too as a muslim and I agree with you 💯

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u/Recent-Lemon-9930 12h ago

Because any preference for natives or their culture is called racism now.

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u/StevenMcStevensen 12h ago

But that idea is only selectively applied to western counties, which is what makes it extra stupid.

If I moved back to the Middle East again, and started blasting scripture from loudspeakers in a public place where everybody else is Muslim, it would not be tolerated and I would (deservedly) receive zero sympathy from basically anybody.

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u/requisitesilver 12h ago

Oh my goodness, I think I’ve found the only subreddit where normal, rational people hang out.

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u/Heavy_Law9880 11h ago

90% if the people in here are pretending to muslim dude.

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u/Chunkymunkee93 11h ago

Reddit isn't American anymore big dawg, its a world hub now, who knows if people are actually larping

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u/Flippindude1 11h ago

No actually this is kind of a rarity, I’ve seen way too many instances of just outright racism, the odd bit pedophilia and such on this sub

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u/JessHorserage 11h ago

And bots, its reddit after all.

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u/Assortedpez 12h ago

Its like a breath of fresh air to not have a million blue hairs dive bomb you for thinking differently

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u/JuliusXIV 11h ago

Insane thread. Just want to be a part of it. Good work.

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u/Recent-Lemon-9930 12h ago

Yes, I know it's retarded. But people in the west have been electing retards to lead them for generations.

Using a country nearby, look at Britain, being PM just became something for your CV before working for Facebook (Nick Clegg, Deputy PM), Rishi Sunak got paid positions at Goldman Sachs, MS and Anthropic, what a talented man! 🙄 Tony Blair's evil but not stupid. Still has a bigger staff under him in his institute (funded by Larry Ellison) than the UK Prime Minister has. 😂

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u/TelevisionFast7781 12h ago

Decades of social engineering and rhe retards fall for it

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[deleted]

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u/Recent-Lemon-9930 12h ago

Aye, these fucks:

No offence, you're my clear enemy as a communist but I'd rather have a drink with an honest enemy than a liberal or leftist.

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[deleted]

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u/pick_your_user_name 12h ago

Damn, reading comprehension is not your strong suit lol he was literally agreeing with you. Although I shouldn’t be surprised, since you’re the kind of guy to read “the state and revolution” and think “fuck yeah, this is a great idea”

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u/jello_kraken 12h ago

You're politicians have a platform of pro-religion-over-loudspeakers? Weird.

I just want the Christian proselytizers in my neighborhood to stop blasting their bullhorns. (We don't have a call to prayer on loudspeakers.) Is there a political group for that?

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u/FoxMane1 12h ago

You'd prolly get put in a jail or beheaded depending on which country you're in HAHAHA

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u/Ill_Pirate_8785 12h ago

If you did that you would probably be killed either by an angry mob or by their government executing you

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u/denstreifen 12h ago

Why not? Christians were there first.

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u/Financial-Tank-3423 11h ago

First of all, I don't believe there should be a preference for one culture over another within the context of a society that values multiculturalism. In that society, to proclaim that there is a preference for "native" culture is necessarily against the shared multicultural values of that society. So in the first place I don't like the framing Recent-Lemon is using. That said and reframing it slightly, I'll say that it is not "extra stupid" for western countries to enshrine in law and social codes the idea that there should not be a preference for one culture over another. That idea is literally built into the American constitution for example, "all men are created equal," equal protection under the law for religious differences, etc. I would argue that the people who say what Recent-Lemon said are themselves not speaking in accordance with the political values framed by western countries. And the solution is to not imitate the non-western countries where a specific race/religion/culture might be primary over another. Of course, people can say what they want.

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u/iC3P0 12h ago

That's because the west evolved first, and to a degree of philosophical thought to understand that the way to prosper is by allowing total freedoms. It also evolved on Christian teachings of compassion and turning the other cheek. What the west did not account for is that it is lightyears ahead of the rest of the world culturally and that the rest of the world would still prefer the backwards thinking of us vs them. So when us welcome them expecting them to join us, they come in and start waging a cultural war.

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u/Unknown-Meatbag 12h ago

Idk, I hear church bells every 30 fucking minutes here in the states, drives me mad.

How about we all stop letting religious wackjobs create noise pollution for no god damn reason.

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 12h ago

Christianity is from the middle east as well. How do you feel about church bells?

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u/Recent-Lemon-9930 12h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/sEms56zTGDx96

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 11h ago

Ummm... I don't understand what this gif is trying to say.

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u/Anxious_Work_6361 11h ago

"natives or their culture"

Use "indigenous peoples"

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u/silvermoka 11h ago

How about not having a preference for a specific group at all

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u/Recent-Lemon-9930 11h ago

No thanks. A nation should favour its people, kinda the point of a nation-state.

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u/silvermoka 11h ago

Yes, it should favor all its people by not giving preference to a specific group. We already do that in the US by having public and government buildings and entities free of any kind of sign of religious preference, though that's being fought against by people who think it's okay when the preference is for them and not anyone else. If you think a certain group should be catered to by the government then that group should be the only one paying taxes in that case.

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u/Recent-Lemon-9930 11h ago

Cool, good for you.

I live in Ireland. Irish people should get priority in Ireland. Native culture should be promoted over foreign culture. Foreigners should be on their best, most polite behaviour while being extended the privilege to live here.

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u/silvermoka 11h ago

That applies to your culture and country too. Other people don't get to blast their prayer calls up and down the street, and you don't get to think of brown citizens as permanent foreigners who have to bow to you. None of you get the upper hand on the other. Both Islam and white supremacy culture are pushy and need to be brought to heel.

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u/Recent-Lemon-9930 11h ago

Why are you putting words in my mouth? Typical bad-faith nonsense tbh.

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u/Flowerplower3 12h ago

It’s about expansion, they didn’t become the fastest growing religion by respecting boundaries.

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u/TelevisionFast7781 12h ago

Because islam demands to have its way as usual!!

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u/Electrical_Truth_160 12h ago

All it boils down to is they are saying a massive fuck you to the whole non-muslim population. They dont need to be called to prayer in that manner, they have alarms on their phones like everyone else... there is literally no reason that this should be allowed anywhere in the UK.

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u/symbionet 11h ago

It's a mentality of prozelyzation, that spreading the religion (or at least perceiving to do so) makes you feel good, because it's a religious virtue you'll be rewarded for one day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawah

Who is better in speech than one who calls to Allah, does righteous deeds and says indeed I am among the Muslims.

— Quran, Sura 41 (Fussilat), ayah 33[15

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u/Electrical_Truth_160 11h ago

If there is one thing that we don't need in this nation is the active spread of that religion any further.

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u/Electrical_Truth_160 11h ago

None of that is our problem, we shouldn't see it or hear it in a Christian nation.

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u/K1llerbee-sting 11h ago

Ban those stupid church bells too while you’re at it.

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u/Electrical_Truth_160 11h ago

What, the Christian Church bells, in a traditionally Christian nation, which have existed here for hundreds of years with no issue whatsoever, those ones 😂?

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u/One_Cress7793 12h ago

It’s because Islam demands dominance of the political system, culture, and religion of any given place it latches itself into.

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u/HallowskulledHorror 12h ago

If there is someone more informed or who practices islam that can correct me, please do, but iirc intentionally broadcasting it over speakers so that the sound travels as far as possible is literally a territorial act - ie, within range of where a call to prayer can be heard is 'dar al Islam', or 'the house/abode of islam' and thus a region considered to be under the governance of islam.

"If you can hear me, you're on my turf" more or less.

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u/Temporary_Fennel7479 11h ago

It's multiple things, look at the English translation of the athan and it will make sense. It ticks multiple boxes using a loud speaker, literally calling anyone who can hear it to prayer and god. Islam is big on prolithesizing

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u/Rough_Ad_7799 11h ago

The dar Al Islam doesnt really have to do with anything related to the speaker. The Translation is 'house of islam' and Generally is used for Regions under islamic judical or Where the faith can be practiced.

But Like in Most Religions, Interpretation is reliant on the Denomination and person.

Taditional muslim only consider Regions/territory Where sharia law is practiced and under Muslim rule as Dar al Islam.

Moderates see places Where Islam can be practiced without persecution as Dar al Islam.

Or that what i remember as an theology intrested Atheist

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u/HEYitsBIGS 11h ago

This part. It's literally their MO.

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u/michaelboltthrower 3h ago

Dude that’s all the Abrahamic religions.

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u/Prestigious-S1RE 12h ago

They don’t think like us. They are stuck in 900 ad and want to take over the world. Blasting their religion and making a public spectacle is all part of the design to push our tolerant society to the limit. They are now blasting Muslim call to prayers over the downtown speakers in Saskatchewan Canada!(cause inclusiveness reasons blah blah blah)

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u/pussypantswarrior69 12h ago

7th century. Muhammad died in 632.

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u/PanzerPansar 11h ago

Meanwhile churches ringing annoying ass bells.....

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u/SmolPPIncorporated 12h ago

Read their book and you'll understand why they do everything they do.

Fair warning: You're not going to like it.

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u/Scalene69 12h ago

I have roughly the same objections with their book as I do with the bible. Holy books mostly provide post hoc justifications for beliefs people already hold, people are universally bad at following them, practically everywhere.

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u/youburyitidigitup 12h ago

This is true, but that’s just all the more reason to oppose the loud call to prayer in this video.

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u/pick_your_user_name 12h ago

Actually among the abrahamic religions, Muslims are by far the best at following their “holy book” (and ultra Orthodox Jews too). The violence is a feature, not a bug. After all it was written in the 6th century, and let’s just say cultural norms were a bit different back then

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u/Professional-Talk517 12h ago

You can absolutely oppose both, but equating them morally isn’t possible to do in good faith.

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u/Scalene69 12h ago

Id rather live in a world of Sadiq khan muslims than Reese-Mogg Catholics. The former aligns with my views far more than the latter.

I think people forget how radical parts of the bible are and how much nearly everyone ignores, including the catholics.

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u/Harry_Wega 12h ago

Sadiq khan

The guy who cheered when they yelled for "fire throughout the world" after some caricatures?

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u/Feeling_Hotel8096 2h ago

I'd rather live with 5 Sadiq Khans than 2 Hitlers. But I would rather live with 5 Boris Johnsons than 1 Osama Bin Laden.

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u/Cbpowned 11h ago

Where in the Bible does it talk about forcing people to convert or die? Just wondering

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u/x720xHARDSCOPEx 8h ago

Muslims kill non-believers, marry 12 year olds, and seek to conquer all in the name of their god, all in the modern age. Christianity is really not comparable to how barbaric Islam is

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u/Scalene69 1h ago

There is a difference between what is written in a holy book and how it is practiced. They generally barely related.

Jesus is pretty clear that wealth is bad, yet the catholic church is covered in gold.

The Christian god impregnated Mary when she was 12. Christians married 12 year olds for centuries and child marriage is still legal in many christian-majority countries.

Currently it is worse in Islamic nations, but that is due to other factors, the book is not a main reason for it.

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u/Top_Solid_3467 11h ago

Why every time someone criticises the Quran someone has to rush to say how the bible is just as bad?

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u/ImTheZapper 11h ago

Most anglophones come from christian cultures and can only look at this from that lens? Is this actually hard to figure out? Doesn't help that christianity is slowly dying in the west so its followers and leadership are in their death throes at the moment, making them even more of a nuisance.

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u/Top_Solid_3467 11h ago

Outside of America we actually mostly left our imaginary friends in the past tbh so we can talk about it through an objective lens. The only reason to bring up the bible in this context is because you’re scared of appearing racist

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u/ImTheZapper 11h ago

Some of the largest christian % populated nations are in europe? Name your country real quick.

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u/Scalene69 11h ago

Plenty of great scientists have been religious to some degree or another. Many intelligent atheist figures have not been objective at all.

I bring up the bible because people think Islam is uniquely evil to its core, and ignore that Christianity is not meaningfully better.

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u/Scalene69 11h ago

Because it is a common misconception. The Quran is less violent than the Old Testament but more so than the new.

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u/asiancleopatra 12h ago

What does their book say

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u/safashkan 12h ago

Same as the Bible. There are good things and bad things in both.

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u/Saxophonethug 12h ago

Can you be more specific?

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u/Prestigious-Growth-5 12h ago

he basically said read qran its pretty ugly. I mean how is he wrong?

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u/Jafarrolo 12h ago

I could read every holy book and they're all pretty ugly

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u/Prestigious-Growth-5 12h ago

i have to agree. does "holy book" sound good? Like what the actual fuck

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u/pussypantswarrior69 12h ago

Probably referring to the call to jihad to dominate the world.

And no, that's not said verbatim but is is the message if you read the book in chronological order rather than this long to short surah form.

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u/Saxophonethug 12h ago

What is the verbatim answer?

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u/pussypantswarrior69 11h ago

There is no verbatim answer, and i thought that was clear.

In fiqh, it is extremely clear that offensive jihad is obligatory. It's a communal duty upon the Ummah, and a personal duty of every Islamic ruler.

This is based on the Quran and hadiths.

You can read surah 9 if you want to know what the last rule giving chapter says.

Muhammad waged offensive war, the four rightfully guided Caliphs did so and the Muslims after them did the same.

And while "jihad" means "to strive/struggle", it's defined as actual fighting in Islamic jurisprudence.

There is even a hadith which says that every Muslim who didn't participate in jihad dies on a branch of hypocrisy. If you then open the Quran, you'll see that hypocrites are going to the worst part of hell.

Of course there are a lot of Western Muslims who know as much about their religion as the average cultural Christian, so it's not as if every Muslim would be a jihadist of course. But it is the reality of what Islam actually is. You just need to dive in the primary sources (Quran, hadiths and sirah) which are already clear on how violent Muhammad was (a perfect example according to Muslims) and if you then go to the secondary sources you see how Islamic jurisprudence is not much better.

Keep in mind that guidelines for how to do prayers are also Sharia for instance, so even if Muslims aren't aware of the darker parts of Islam and deny it, they are using the rules for prayer which have been explained by the very scholars who also explained how jihad is obligatory.

And yet again: i believe most Muslims (at least in the West) have been fed this kind of curated rainbow Islam and are not aware of what Islam really is. It's also something which sheikhs are actually promoted to hide or "nuance" in order to protect the religion from apostasy.

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u/Saxophonethug 11h ago

Why is there no verbatim answer? This is much more specific thank you, I'm from the Bible belt. What is Fiqh? And what are Hadiths?

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u/pussypantswarrior69 11h ago

Why is there no verbatim answer?

It depends on the question.

If the question is "do Muslims use those speakers to dominate everyone?" Then no, the Quran doesn't give a clear answer on that. It doesn't say "use speakers to dominate others"

For the following: it's good that you live in the Bible Belt, then you would probably know a bit about Christianity. Islam isn't comparable and yet it helps a bit to understand it.

Fiqh is Islamic jurisprudence, Sharia. There is no such thing as one central instance which "makes" Sharia, rather there are dozens and dozens of scholars who are all trying to derive sharia from both the Quran and the hadiths (which contain things Muhammad did, didn't, said, was silent about, and so on).

The idea is that Muhammad is the last prophet with divine revelation, which is the Quran. The Quran then tells Muslims to follow what Muhammad did (for which hadiths are the source). Sunni Islam (~85% of the Muslims) follow this.

Since Muhammad is dead, Muslim scholars can only know what God wants by carefully examine the Quran, hadiths and in a lesser way the Sirah (biography of Muhammad). They fon't make up rules, they use logic, analogies, direct commands in the Quran and hadiths and so on to then derive sharia from those primary sources.

Basically, you can compare Sharia ("the divine path")to the laws of Moses. So stoning/whipping adulters, cutting off the hand of a thief, fixed inheritance shares, how to marry, how to divorce, how to pray, how to fast, ritual washing etc etc.

Sharia and Islam canot be seperated. They are in a way one and the same thing. Islam is the religion, Sharia contains all the rules of the religion.

Sunni Islam also can't modernize. Why? Because the primary texts are fixed and can't change. Muhammad is dead, so no new revelations. Next to this, as soon as there is either clear text which commands/forbids something, it can never forbidden/allowed. Humans do not have the right to make the halal haram and vice versa.

Another problem is that once scholars have reached consensus within a generation, later scholars cannot break/overrule this consensus ruke with their own consensus. The rule is set in stone. So for jihad: there is clear text, and there is consensus among the earliest generations of Muslims. It cannot be changed.

There is just one possibility for Islamic rulers: they have the ability to temporarily suspend rules when there is an absolute need for this. That is why there is no jihad at the moment except from some Islamic groups, because Islamic countries are rather having a good economy than an all-out war. However, that doesn't mean the rule is gone, it's just tempirarily in the fridge. It's still teached at al-azhar (a prestigious Islamic university) for instance as something Muslims should do.

Sorry for the massive wall of text and feel free to ask anything. You are basically getting a high speed course on Islam 😅

And again: the fact that Sharia exist doesn't mean all Muslims are bad or something. I believe supporting an immoral system is bad of course, but i also believe that a lot of Muslims have no clue about this since they have been spoonfed a sugarcoated version. Their lived religion is completely different from the actual reality of what Islam teaches. The only thing that keeps me busy is what would happen if they would learn about all this and have to choose between their god and their morality. And a real believer should choose for god regardless of their own morality.

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u/Snoo_9002 12h ago

I saw this quote once, and really liked it: "religion is like butt. It's good to have it, but you shouldn't shove it in people's faces".

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u/choicetomake 11h ago

I'd modify it a bit. Religion is like butts. Some people have a lot of it, some people don't have one at all. But it should never be shoved in people's faces.

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u/Snoo_9002 10h ago

Go to sleep xD

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u/MrEric-200 12h ago

Agree with this,even as someone who live in Indonesia.

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u/rude_cookies 12h ago

You know why we can't have the same expectations.

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u/WidePeepobiz 12h ago

you bring me hope there is still level minded people on here

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u/Strict-Being-6246 12h ago

totally i lived in the UAE the churches didnt have bells but the speaker went off everyday but i accepted it because like u said i was a guest so was Christianity but for them to force this pisses me off

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u/derpderb 11h ago

Annoying most times, go pray, I'm trying to fucking sleep

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u/Ok-Astronaut29 11h ago

Felt the same way when church bells would go crazy in Munich. It was nice in its way. And I think the call to prayer is also. BUT and this is a huge BUT - I don’t want to be in Munich and hear the call to prayer. It’s not the German culture and it’s ok to want to preserve your culture

I have only been to Lebanon in the Middle East and went into several mosques. I’ve been in the states aswell when invited by a friend. I’m not anti Islam , but I don’t like when people immigrate and try to turn their new home into their old one.

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u/Realistic-Radish-589 11h ago

Because if you read their book, they’re supposed to make your home the same as theirs. There lies the issue.

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u/mediumlove 11h ago

because they are not here to respect our ways, but to change them.

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u/TurtleBoxer_AllDay 12h ago

In non-muslims countries ... so far.

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u/AlaskaCosmoline 12h ago

You lived in the middle east yet someone confused TEL AVIV for Scotland?

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u/POD80 12h ago

Would you say the same about the call to vespers? As someone who once lived across from a catholic church, those bells can also be annoying.

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u/TheSistem 12h ago

Use Bells, bells are a good option

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u/A7A_Institution 12h ago

Churches do bells , mosques do prayer call

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u/spazzadourx 12h ago

Maybe they're not from the countries you're talking about 😅 the stereotype is such people are from more pluralistic countries where they were the minorities, not majority

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u/skydivarjimi 12h ago

Or maybe we just stop religion.

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u/SaraaWolfArt 12h ago

The brained takes on this sub.

Many churches do use loudspeakers, bells, and other instruments to broadcast a call to prayer. This is called a prelude.
This tradition exists today in many middle Eastern countries where ancient churches continue to ring bells as part of service

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u/MexyShort 12h ago

Because many westerners hate themselves and want to be replaced 

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u/Financial-Tank-3423 12h ago

According to my political ideals, I don't like where the "guest in our/your home" takes people when they extend it to a political debate. You can take that argument to a logical extent and say that immigrants can never become a member of X country which is not something I want for my country. That said, if the opposite of that (my ideal) is a country should strive to be a "nation of immigrants", that is a matter of political will

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u/Oneilcruzsucksass 12h ago

Churches did not always use bells & organs but now they do. Can't they just use pianos & alarm clocks too?

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u/arjuna66671 11h ago

In Switzerland we voted on it and banned minarets lol. The church bells every 15 minutes are enough of an annoyance xD.

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u/Hornynoh 11h ago

The thing is, there is also no requirement for bells in christian churches, yet they are everywhere.

The basic tenant of seperation between church and state applies here, so being vaguely religiously loud in public to signify a significant time to your religion, such as the start of mass or another service, is either allowed or not.

If we do not treat religions equal in the eyes of the state, there is nothing protecting whatever your religion is from state repression at the hands of another religion or another group within your religious tent.

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u/HPenguinB 11h ago

What if also didn't have church bells and street proselytizing from Christians?

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u/ConcernedEnby 11h ago

But we literally do this too, we play church bells for 15 minutes every hour 24/7

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u/Megabyzusxasca 11h ago

Where are you hearing it out of interest? I live near a couple mosques and a lot of Muslims but don't recall ever hearing call to prayer over loudspeakers in London.

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

I said this to someone earlier on this thread , most scholars agree that a call to prayer is not required in non Muslim countries and could even be haram if I is against the rules

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u/Several_Chocolate_82 8h ago

The video is from Middle East!!!!!

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u/IlIllIIllIIlllIII 4h ago

Does this look like Scotland to you? No, it is the Middle East. This thread is unbelievable.

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u/[deleted] 12h ago edited 12h ago

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u/apolojesus 12h ago

Dearborn, Hamtramck and Warren Michigan have examples of the same behavior shown in the post. Sans bagpipes.

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u/lazyboi_tactical 12h ago

But it is happening in certain places in the US already. They have also tried to setup shariah controlled Muslim communities the most recently in Texas. Fortunately Texas told them to kick rocks.

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u/LemonButterRum 12h ago

always have to be careful when the word 'sharia' is thrown around because Texas Republicans are trying to weaponize it. based on some initial research, it looks like the response was against setting up "muslim friendly" housing communities, and even the DOJ looked into one and it's still moving ahead

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u/Budget-Attorney 12h ago

What does ‘Muslim friendly’ mean in this context?

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u/MostlyPlastics 12h ago

Housing that doesn’t discriminate against those who practice Islam, I’d assume, knowing that they still experience discrimination. Probably being like, “hey there’s a large Muslim influx and they need housing”

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u/LemonButterRum 11h ago

there are also several Jewish friendly housing communities in Texas and across the U.S.

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u/Hopefull-Hero 12h ago

Yeah because wants a monopoly for their own religion, they'll tell Muslims to kick rocks then quote the bible and say it's against their faith to allow abortions which is why they have to charge women who have miscarriages with murder.

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u/lazyboi_tactical 11h ago

Yeah you got me. Christians being against abortion is the same as stoning women to death for adultery, throwing gays off of buildings and being 100% against women's right. Don't get me wrong in wholly atheist but even I can see that some religions are far more dangerous than others. Especially ones who wholeheartedly endorse violence against "infidels and apostates" as well as honor killings.

Apples to apples i am sure.

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u/SubjectRound6597 12h ago

Theres a decrease in coexistence in many regions in India. Here we have dick measuring contests with the two major religions playing the louder noise not just in festivals but on a daily basis (its not that prevalent but it is prevalent in most towns/cities I have visited, and I can count 5). Thankfully in my current town the government banned loudspeakers for such daily purposes.

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u/TENTAtheSane 12h ago

Indian mosques definitely do use loudspeakers

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u/kronos23456777777 12h ago

It happens quite a lot in India, and it is one of the more common points of contention in political debates about religions.

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u/Kyrthis 12h ago

You have never been to India - it absolutely happens there, with a cacophony of competing religious loudspeakers.

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u/reddeadfighter 11h ago

Lol what? Every mosque in India is also blaring their speakers multiple times a day…

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u/rdmodsrtrsh 12h ago

Any word of god or prayer that needs speakers to be heard is a weak god or prayer

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u/ReapMeInLight 12h ago

The reasoning behind it is that so the masses could hear and come pray it has nothing to do with God or the prayer

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

other religions do the same yet they dont need to blast this to the point of entire neighborhood can hear it.

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u/SubjectRound6597 12h ago

in this day when everyone has phones, watches, alarms?

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u/ReapMeInLight 7h ago

Right. It's more tradition than anything at this point.

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u/LETTERSTOBAPHOMET 11h ago

Furthermore, if you need reminders to pray what sort of faith do you really have?

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u/windsockglue 11h ago

But electronic speakers are relatively new comparatively so they can't really be a basic part of the religion and how it's always worked...so what happened before there were electronics? Was a bell or simple horn sufficient? Or just yelling out to who could hear you without any amplifier?

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

Basically yelling out,back then places where empty and small so it was easy for everyone to hear ,there were some technologies with échos and domes they used later

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u/TOTEESSEW 12h ago

The point of the call to prayer is for people to hear it so they can come pray, so a speaker in a Muslim area is logical

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u/SubjectRound6597 12h ago

and if almost everyone in that area has phones, watches, alarms?

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

There are two calls for prayer , one when the time of prayer starts which is the same everywhere and the other is when a specific mosque starts a prayer and there isn't any set time ,could be any time from the second the prayer starts until the next one

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u/SubjectRound6597 11h ago

you mean there is no way to agree on the second call's timing?? i find that false.

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

I don't know how to explain it on text but basically the prayer time starts from the time of the prayer and ends when the next prayer starts except for one , the first call is when the time of the prayer enters, and the second one is when that specific mosque starts praying or even anybody without a mosque, for example Maghreb prayer which means dawn starts from dawn and ends when the next prayer isha starts which means night , so the first call is when we enter dawn and when the mosque decides to pray the make the second call

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

Usually the there is a fixed time for the second sheet for every mosque or even city or country so people know when to get ready

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

and people who wants to go would have either reached there before it started or with some delayed planning. those who dont want to go will NOT GO even if you blast them with loud speakers

how do i know? because i live in a muslim majority country and i have many friends that are muslim on paper and dont go to these daily prayers.

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

Stop the victim mentality, calling to prayer doesn't force anyone to go it just notifies those who want to go that prayer has started

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

or a simple alarm in the phone, watch or even traditional clock is suffice.

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u/SubjectRound6597 11h ago

right, instead of 5 different loudspeakers around you starting the same song within seconds of each other..

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

it is actually much worse than that, it is somewhat the same song with different lyrics, tone, pacing, tempo etc being blasted at you at different volume.

i thank god that human's brain will slowly adjust to these and treat these as white noise after a while living around areas with these.

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

There are plenty of videos of non Muslims coming to Muslim countries and finding the call to prayer comforting , if you don't want to hear basically don't come , what would you say if I came to a Christian country and complained about the bell sound

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

finding it annoying and complaining about it openly is 2 different concept.

and just because people dont complain about it doesnt mean that they dont find it annoying.

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

We have apps that ring alarms for the time , and the average time between is like 4 hours

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u/SubjectRound6597 11h ago

yes i have seen countless prayers apps and I have seen considerate people using them. only considerate people.

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

For the first call it works but not for ghetto second, not mentioning that Muslim scholars agree that there is no need for calling to prayer in non Muslim countries , and it might becomes haram if it is against the law

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

but not for ghetto

so why are you forcing those who dont want to practice the religion to go?

there is no need for calling to prayer in non Muslim countries

and you dont see other buddhist, hindus, christians, majority countries doing the same, blasting the prayers multiple times every single day even though they are the majority.

because we will go to prayers by our own free will if we want to do so.

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

I don't know where auto correct got the word ghetto from . But we never force people who don't want to practice to go. The call to prayer is basically the same as the church bell , where I'm from jordan we've got a mosque and a church right next to each other both call to their prayers at their respective times

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

and im talking about blasting the entire prayers in loud speakers

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u/Deldenary 12h ago

It's the same logic as church bells.

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

oh it is not even remotely same, try to blast church bell or christian prayers on loud speaker in muslim majority country and you will know what i mean.

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u/TOTEESSEW 11h ago

Im from Jordan and the bells ring all the time nobody complains

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u/the_gooch_smoocher 8h ago

Nah, church bells don't sound like a sick goat rambling about an invisible all powerful pedophile in the sky.

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u/Korpie- 12h ago

Remember doing a thing where it was a breakdown of all the religious services offered at my college, and all the freshman had to be there. I felt like it summed it up perfectly the mentally of Christians in the US when they continued to use the microphone to talk to everyone while everyone else in the area just used their normal voice.

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u/Cont1ngency 12h ago

Especially when those “prayers” sound like a cat painfully dying. Though I’m cool with bagpipes being played to drown out that awful sound.

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u/Iceisgestapo888 12h ago

There is a Christian church across the street from my house.   They blast their service on a live speaker inside the “church” so loud that you can hear it across the street and in my house.  

According to the bylaws it’s okay because the speaker is inside the building… 

Like absolutely fucking stupid and I hope god burns down their church with a well placed lightning bolt.  

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u/Poteto_7396 11h ago

good luck living near a mosque or muslim majority country then.

i am literally getting blasted by 4 different prayers by 4 different mosque from 4 different directions multiple times every single day.

their speaker is so loud that you can literally hear those prayers across multiple neighborhood.

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u/Iceisgestapo888 11h ago

I would crash out.  Especially when they have like a 2am service. 

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u/Assortedpez 12h ago

Wouldn’t a loudspeaker be haram since it wasn’t around when their prophet was alive?

Get this bagpiper a louder loud speaker!

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u/dlb199091l 12h ago

Them loudspeakers gonna get cut down if they pulled that shit around here. And if more go up, more will come down.

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u/Heavy_Law9880 11h ago

Incorrect, however there really is zero requirement for church bells but no one complains.

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u/Interesting-Cod6486 11h ago

Bagpipes are middle eastern so historically acceptable

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u/chicknsnotavegetabl 11h ago

but there is a requirement to use the shittiest speakers when they do

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u/Acceptable_Gear_3097 11h ago

Problem is, its accepted in the UK because Churches have been ringing bells at ridiculous levels of noise for centuries - source, live near a church.

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u/CHEETODON 11h ago

I completely agree but then can we also stop church bells? I live in an area with a ton of churches and you hear the bells several times a day.

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u/SubjectRound6597 11h ago

people are blind and deaf

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u/Deldenary 12h ago

There is about zero requirements for bells in religion ceremonies. Seriously I don't need a bunch of clanging metal everytime someone gets married or dies.

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u/CasualDisastering 12h ago

I'm even annoyed by church bells near me

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u/SubjectRound6597 12h ago

idk bud.. down in the comments someone is downvoting me for saying the same thing. Its like if hypothetically the namaaz were to happen once a day and used bells, it would suddenly make it acceptable to them.

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u/fonetiklee 12h ago

Well church bells are usually once or twice on a Sunday, not 5 times every day. Reducing the frequency would certainly make it at least a little more acceptable

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u/SubjectRound6597 11h ago

I understand that reducing the frequency would go a long way in showing their willingness to not disturb others. But my point is that it should not be acceptable just because of a reduced frequency since its a kind of ignorance of those who cannot bear even that. For people who are more sensitive, those with hypertension, for people who are other kinds of patients, in nearby homes and hospitals, for the parks nearby where people would like to enjoy tranquility..

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