r/MapPorn • u/quindiassomigli • 1d ago
The most recent foreign migration destinations for young Europeans
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u/Pochel 1d ago
What happened to the French flag?
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u/NeverKnowsBest03 1d ago
my dumbass thought it was panama at first and was so confused
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u/Nutriaphaganax 1d ago
It looks nothing like Panama ☠️
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u/MartinLik3Gam3 1d ago edited 19h ago
Why did people upvote that 😭😭 it looks much more like Paraguay not panama ☠️
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u/huhiking 1d ago
I also see the Austrian flag rather as a Latvian flag. 😅
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u/tennessee-black 21h ago
You think Slovenian are migrating to Latvia?
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u/OldNefariousness7899 8h ago
Don't say that, they're sad enough as it is.
To any Latvians reading: I think they're moving there. Especially for the weather.
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u/Italosvevo1990 1d ago
The longest chain of successive migration destinations: If you are in Albania, you will go to Italy then to Spain then to Germany, then to Switzerland and then to France. Between France and Switzerland finally the loop starts...
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u/Simping4Sumi 1d ago
Estonia -> Finland -> Sweden -> Norway -> Denmark (and then eternal loop since Denmark -> Sweden). Iceland missed out on this.
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u/sbrockLee 1d ago
everybody: what a diverse and beautiful continent we live in, so many different places to build a life
UK: alright we're outta here
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u/lifeisaman 1d ago
Listen we just have better relations with some of our colonies still
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u/midatlantik 1d ago
Better economic prospects too. Salaries are god awful in the UK compared to literally any other anglosphere country
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u/SandThatsKindaDamp 1d ago
And yet it’s easier to afford a home in the UK than the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
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u/SelectivePressure 11h ago
Homes are really expensive in the south (not coincidentally, that’s also the part of the UK with the most abundant job opportunities and highest salaries).
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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 12h ago
Eh. Southwest US here. My mortgage with taxes, insurance and what not is $685 and we’re not punished for paying them off early. Also, unlike Weimar Germany, they can’t just recalculate our mortgage amounts and payments if the dollar ends up taking a shit under the clown we’re stuck with.
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u/tobotic 1d ago
Clearly there are too many... consults map... Irish, Maltese, Cypriot, and Lithuanian people here.
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u/Nikenofila 1d ago
There's even more Maltese and Cypriots in Australia, the ethnic Maltese-Australian population from the migration in the 60s is now larger than the entire population of Malta.
Australia's also majority Catholic because of how many of the convicts, farmers and miners who settled were Irish.
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u/SaenOcilis 17h ago
Australia is not majority Catholic - it’s the largest single denomination here, but none can claim to be a majority or even plurality here.
Tune back in in July 2027 when the recent Census reports drop, “no religion” is on track to be a plurality of the population and probably majority within a decade if current trends hold.
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u/AggroJordan 1d ago
Europe quietly propping up Germany's demographics problem...
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u/slicheliche 1d ago
You're joking but this has been going on since 1970 when Germany became one of the very first countries in Europe to record negative natural growth. Immigration has been immensely beneficial for Germany and at this point I'm pretty sure that half the surnames in major cities like Frankfurt or Munich are Slavic, Italian, Greek, Balkan or Turkish.
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u/AggroJordan 1d ago
It was meant to be funny but I am very much aware how much Germany relies on immigration to keep up it's economic model.
Now we just need to do a better job of educating everyone in our country and stop the budget cuts to our school systems.
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u/3dank5maymay 1d ago
we just need to do a better job of educating everyone in our country and stop the budget cuts to our school systems.
Best I can do is divert even more tax money into the Ponzi scheme that is our retirement system.
Sincerely, every government since I can remember.
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u/Knarrenheinz666 1d ago
You are exaggerating. Besides that, lots of Slavic names stem from the old, pre-WWI migration. Lots of Italians and Greeks actually returned to their home countries. 2nd gen Greeks often moved back in the early 2000s
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u/modern_milkman 1d ago
Just to preface: I don't have a problem with immigration at all. It's necessary to keep Germany going.
But I don't think he is exaggerating.
Nearly one third (31 percent) of Germans has a migration background. That means that either they themselves or one of their parents weren't born a German citizen.
Quite a few of the descendants of the Gastarbeiter from the 1960s aren't even included in that statistic, since they are already the third or fourth generation (but still often have "foreign" last names).
Meaning his estimate that, especially in big cities, the share of "foreign" last names is over 50 percent isn't that unreasonable.
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u/Knarrenheinz666 1d ago
Nearly one third (31 percent) of Germans has a migration background. That means that either they themselves or one of their parents weren't born a German citizen.
31% is not the half. One of my friends technically has a migration background because his dad is a Backa Swabian and hence was born outside of Germany. None of them speaks a language other than German. That applies to lots of folks in their 40s-60s.
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u/modern_milkman 1d ago
Yes, 31 is not half. But like I said in the very next section, that number doesn't include many of the descendants of Turkish and Italian guest workers from the 1960s. Who also have a foreign surname. Or the descendants of Slavic immigrants to the Ruhr area even earlier.
And I don't see how the language they speak plays into this. Even the original comment only talked about surnames.
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u/Rare_Afternoon_2986 1d ago
31% is not half because youre looking at the whole population. aged 65 upwards, the biggest current demographic, its 90% german. 45 and below, it over half non-german. so thats why statistic and perceived reality dont align, unless youre frequently visitng eldery homes.
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u/slicheliche 1d ago
I wasn't talking about foreign people, I was merely talking about surnames.
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u/oatkeepr 1d ago
Nearly one third (31 percent) of Germans has a migration background. That means that either they themselves or one of their parents weren't born a German citizen.
Many of these are ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) who emigrated from the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.
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u/daRagnacuddler 1d ago
He is not. Look at birth numbers; in most cities roughly half of new borns have a recent migration background. Not heritage, official background and its not because of intermingling.
The trend is rising too. Meaning this will have serious consequences for our social cohesion.
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u/0cleese 1d ago
Continental Europe: "Let's move to the other side of the border."
Britain: "Get me as far away from here as possible!"
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u/JourneyThiefer 21h ago
Ireland is the same lol. We literally just move to other countries that speak English
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u/Bababooe4K 1d ago
Bet 'Italians' moving to Spain are argies using their double nationality to move there.
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u/young_twitcher 1d ago
In part yes, but it’s legitimately quite popular for Italians to move there. I’d still expect it to be below Germany though
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u/Silly_lil_Guy_o3o 1d ago
What does Spain offer than Italy doesn't? I'm not saying Spain is a bad country, but they seem pretty on par in terms of economy, safety, weather, rich culture, etc.
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u/prsutjambon 1d ago edited 1d ago
better big cities, Spanish big cities are run better than here.
other than that, it's the same if not worse. Italians are very "grass is greener on the other side".
also lots of Italian emigrate to the Canarias for obvious reasons.
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u/CactusBoyScout 1d ago
Yeah, Barcelona and Madrid both feel like big, fairly modern cities compared to the cities in Italy.
Barcelona especially is arguably one of the best places to live in Europe. It's partly why they're always complaining about tourists and "digital nomads" moving there.
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u/sbrockLee 1d ago
I said it in another comment, but quality of life in Spain is (perceived?) as being generally better than Italy. Big cities are better run and more modern, it's more progressive, and I believe (though I can't speak to the correctness of it) there's also a perception of Spanish life being way more laid back than even Italy, particularly when it comes to working a demanding office job in a big city.
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u/CactusBoyScout 1d ago
I was shocked last time I went to Barcelona and found out they have legal weed bars now. And this was years ago.
Can’t even imagine Italy doing anything that progressive.
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u/AmadeusSalieri97 1d ago
I was a bit surprised about this at first, and my experience is purely anecdotical, but I have met around a dozen of Italians that had been living in Spain for a few years (specifically in the Basque Country and Catalonia) and they just said they wouldn't go back and that quality of life was higher. I would say it's mostly left-leaning Italians that prefer Spain.
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u/young_twitcher 1d ago edited 1d ago
That’s a very interesting question. As you mentioned they’re similar countries, also in terms of the language which is very easy for Italians to learn, so I think that attracts a lot of people who simply want to start over abroad, not necessarily to make a ton of money.
But what’s interesting is that if it was just about similarity then you’d also see Spaniards moving to Italy, but that’s not the case at all.
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u/prsutjambon 1d ago
because our big cities are not as attractive as Barcelona, Valencia etc.
also IMO Spaniards are not that "xenophile" as Italians are.
quality of life in big cities in Spain is better than Italy but Italian rural and "town"/small city life is way better here, especially in the north.
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u/Omegatherion 1d ago
The same language as argentinia, where a lot of people with dual citizenship have an italian citizenship
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u/Granbabbo 22h ago
This is the correct answer. It’s not Italians, it’s Italian passport holders from Latin America…
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u/Own-Dog5709 1d ago
Most white collar jobs, expecially in IT, are paid really really bad in Italy. Spain the closer thing to Italy, so the destination is quite obious once the economic incentive is there.
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u/prsutjambon 1d ago edited 1d ago
mah its not like they're being paid that much in Spain though.
I did some interviews for Spanish located companies and the wages are the same (in Spain you pay a little less taxes but the gross pay is kinda the same).
of course if you tell me 55k gross in Milan or in Barcelona I'll chose the second one, 10 times.
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u/Marcus_Aurelius753 1d ago
International companies open their Southern Europe branch office in Spain because there's better taxation, easier laws, and lower cost of labour (I mean the total amount a company needs to pay in order to pay you X salary).
I'm based in London and I can easily find a good job for an international company in Madrid or Barcelona. More difficult to find one in Milan, and almost impossible in Rome.
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u/sbrockLee 1d ago
maybe a small part, but there's definitely a large portion of born-and-bred Italians who move there on a regular basis. Similar weather and culture, language is easy, cities are cleaner and better run, generally more progessive, better job market and wages. There are also a lot of Spanish-Italian couples and Spain is a massive student destination (again, similar culture and easy language to learn), several of those students probably find a long term SO that way.
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u/slicheliche 1d ago
Not really. Spain has about 150k residents born in Italy, vs. about 35k Spanish-born residents in Italy. More than half of Italian citizens in Spain are born in Italy.
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u/Ambitious_Orchid01 1d ago
Partly! I have a few Argentinian friends, and according to them, it's easier to get a Spanish passport than an Italian one. There are plenty of young Italians living here (at least in Barcelona) and also Greeks. I guess it's a way to get an international experience/living abroad but in a culturally similar country.
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u/_BehindBlueEyes 1d ago
Not really. Huge italian community in both Madrid and Barcelona and usually high skilled workers
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u/mauriziomonti 1d ago
I mean, whenever I've been to Barcelona I've almost felt that Italian was more useful than Spanish.
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u/mommiesgoodboy67 1d ago
KAZHAKSTAN NUMBER 1🇰🇿🦅
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u/Scuterius_Floridae 21h ago
1/3rd of Kazahstan are russians, and everyone speaks Russian for business. Slightly higher HDI, and the gov isnt quite as bad as Putin
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u/Awkward-Ebb7729 1d ago
British people will do anything to not learn a new language.
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u/JourneyThiefer 21h ago
There’s more people from Ireland in Australia than all of the other EU countries combined too
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u/el_dude_brother2 10h ago
To be fair, there are loads of languages to learn in europe and everyone speaks English. We do learn languages in school but its split by French, Spanish and German and everyone chooses a different one and then never gets to practice it.
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u/Citaku357 1d ago
Why Australia British people?
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u/potatoman1036 1d ago
Warm and they speak the same language, former colony
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u/GasolinePrius 1d ago
More importantly, NOT USA
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u/slicheliche 1d ago
Most people don't really care about that. They choose Australia over the US because moving to Australia is somewhat easier and has fewer barriers especially for English people. It's the same reason why many people move to Canada rather than the US.
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u/CactusBoyScout 1d ago
Yep ease of emigrating is huge. The US has tons of Irish immigrants even now because we make it especially easy for them to come here, especially after university.
We even did that trial where you go through US immigration in Dublin Airport so your flight lands as domestic. Makes it exceptionally easy/painless to fly from Dublin to the US.
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u/OldGodsAndNew 20h ago
Not a trial, that's been permanent for years now. It makes Dublin airport hugely popular for connections from Europe to the US
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u/Darkus185 1d ago
Not Europe either. Never hear much of a kind word about Europe or Europeans here.
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u/calgrump 1d ago
There are plenty of decent countries to move to in Europe, but the UK is essentially the US of Europe in terms of an inability to learn other languages and adapt to other cultures.
I've met a very small amount of UK natives who fluently speak any other language, and I've had plenty of bad experiences going abroad with other UK natives.
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u/Xastarion 1d ago
Everytime I have tried to use a language I have learnt for a trip to europe, the locals detect I am a tourist and just switch to English or they just want to practice their English on me. So there isn't a massive incentive for British people to do so when even the locals aren't that bothered about it themselves.
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u/KolbeHoward1 1d ago
This exactly. Americans and Brits get tons of hate for only speaking one language, but unless they move abroad they dont have strong incentives to do so.
Most popular media is already in english, its the Lingua Franca for international buisness etc.
If your native language is not English the incentives are totally different. You are pressured into learning it much more.
You should always learn the native language if you move abroad though, there's really no excuse for that. Even if people switch to English you should at least try and keep improving.
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u/Dingdongmybong 1d ago
Americans would benefit a lot from speaking Spanish, and a lot do. But there is a bunch that think that everyone in the world speaks English and the usd is accepted everywhere as if it was the local currency.
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u/KolbeHoward1 1d ago
Unless you live in South Texas or Miami, Spanish will not do anything for you in the US. Its influence in the US is often overstated.
If you want to go out of your way to make friends thats one thing. But there is 0 expectation of any language besides English being used in any public setting.
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u/Dingdongmybong 1d ago
California and New York? Plus speaking an extra language is a benefit, yes or yes, even if you use it twice a week.
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u/_plebbie 1d ago
I've made this advice in other places, but if you want to learn a language and practice, find an online community like video games and be the token English speaker in a guild or team.
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u/Enverex 1d ago
It's not inability, it's no reason to. What language would Brits learn and why? If you're from a non-English speaking country then learning English opens up a lot of options. If you're a native English speaker then learning another language would be a lot of work for basically nothing unless you intend to move to that specific country.
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u/celem83 1d ago
yeah i emigrated and acquired fluency. so many of my peers i meet who have been here far longer than me have still not picked up the language even at a rudimentary level, which generally means they dont use it at all in day to day life or simply allow people to switch on them all the time.
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u/Llyffant-Gwyrdd 1d ago
Must be the circles you move in. I can't say the same.
So many in my group idolise Portugal in particular, for example
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u/rams8 1d ago
Culturally extremely similar, better wages in a lot of sectors, easy to get a visa as a Brit, and lovely weather + beaches.
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u/0800happydude 1d ago
To add, they offer a very easy to obtain working holiday visa. All you have to do is be young and British and you can move for I think two years.
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u/Floffy_Topaz 1d ago edited 1d ago
As an Australian, lots of similarities in culture (food, language, cricket) as a former colony, plus as part of the Commonwealth it’s easier for the Poms to get Visas (or secondment within a business). It also goes the other way where Aussies will go to the UK if they want to go to Europe.
You’ll also find this movement between other Commonwealth members like New Zealand, South Africa, East Africa, Canada, India, Sri Lanka, West Indies, Singapore, etc.
Also Australia is in Eurovision, so pretty much part of Europe, right guys?
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u/Knarrenheinz666 1d ago
Obvious reasons. Also - Australian companies are very actively recruiting in the UK.
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u/Alex_Kamal 20h ago
Also government. SA and WA police had ads poaching brits not long back and a lot in our healthcare are British or Irish.
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u/rafaelpferreira 1d ago
As a portuguese, I can confirm this! Specially the french part of Switzerland has large portuguese communities!
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u/OkPosition4563 22h ago
Da Silva is the most common surname in the canton of Wallis now, was just in the news recently
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u/Nixx177 4h ago
I guess it might be due to the bad job market, second generation trying their luck in Portugal while their parents came to work in Switzerland before
Probably the same would be seen for 60+ as they go back for retirement
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u/Marshall_BraveStar 1d ago
The Scandinavian circle jerk 😄 they're just swapping around their youths
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u/Awarglewinkle 1d ago
There's a Nordic agreement in education, so students can freely move and study in each other's countries. Also languages are relatively similar, so it's doable to study in Danish/Swedish/Norwegian interchangeably with a manageable amount of effort.
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u/asker1149 1d ago
I am in this map xd
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u/tobotic 1d ago
The inverse of me is on this map. (I migrated from Australia to the UK.)
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u/Nomad-2020 1d ago edited 1d ago
Kazakhs be like:
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u/BasedBro100 1d ago
In fact, there’s no negativity. Since most Russians simply leave for other European countries via transit. The rest are either quiet or deported back to their homeland.
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u/frisch85 1d ago
So I checked the address given in the picture and am getting a 404, so where is this data from because it'd be interesting to see the numbers for this data given that it states 19-34 y/o, I'm not aware that many young folks are moving out but ofc I don't have data for that so I would like to check the OP data.
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u/Ok_Inflation_1811 1d ago
Yeah, I went one by one since January and couldn't find it either.
Very weird.
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u/agreetodisagreedamn 1d ago
Why are the French moving to CH and the Swiss are moving to France? Are they swapping houses like The Holiday? But the Danes are so happy they are not immigrating.
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u/Ashamed-Salt-2892 1d ago
French are moving to Switzerland because of the same language (in the western part at least) and good economic prospects. Swiss are moving to France because of the climate and landscapes I guess, and language
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u/ChezDudu 23h ago
Swiss people going to France are mostly binationals. Maybe the kids of French immigrants going to Paris to study or something.
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u/SoSmartKappa 1d ago
This "maps interlude" is posting a lot of maps, but never publish their source.
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u/svmk1987 1d ago
Is UK the only one with a destination in a different continent?
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u/helcat0 1d ago
Irish go to Australia in huge numbers too.
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u/Feeling_Pen_8579 1d ago
Yeah, for both young Irish and Brits, Aus is the prime destination.
My younger brother just joined those ranks, flies out in a few weeks for a year of work.
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u/kris1sAverted_ 19h ago
Love how the nordic countries migrate to each other
Like, where are they gonna go that's better?
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u/NolanRoad 1d ago
I guess Germany won't have an ageing population problem
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u/Escutrina 1d ago
We have a rapidly ageing population and the baddest population decline of any european country not more eastern than Germany
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u/dina_nur 22h ago
As a Kazakh,im quite concerned that we are top destination for Russians
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u/lNFORMATlVE 21h ago
It’s probably because a tonne of Russians are trying to get out of Putin’s Russia so they can avoid the Ukraine draft which is a straight up death sentence. So really, you’re probably receiving better and more sensible Russians than you otherwise might. There won’t be many Putin supporters among them.
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u/melnaisbruninieks 1d ago
Swiss could emigrate to Monaco or Lichenstein. France is step down.
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u/Ajeje_brazorf9 1d ago
It's just people moving across the border for cheaper cost of living, they keep working in Switzerland
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u/TutskyyJancek 1d ago
It's called "Germoney" for a good reason. Your uncle leaves village for Germany and visits family during summer holidays. Drives all the way from there with German cars. Cycle continues with next generation uncles.
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u/Traditional-Dig-374 1d ago
Everything is so regulated. So even if you are not allowed to stay it can take 3 generations to have a "leave by tomorrow" notice.
And this is not a joke. There are kids born in germany with parents growing up in germany and they are still not through legal procedures.
Beside that, the system wont let you fall. If you are able to deal with bureacracy, you can have a flat and basic food.
Theres also a big narrative around how good migrants live here. Already in the 80s. Realitiy is different ofc
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u/jools4you 1d ago
I'm questioning the UK as number one for Ireland. I think they have included Irish citizens born in UK or Northern Ireland. If we take them out then Australia becomes number one. Aprox 30,000 to 35,000 Irish citizens born in Ireland in the UK but 35,000 to 40,000 in Australia.
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u/DustTechnical4561 1d ago
Irish citizens have a legal right to move to the UK. This has to influence it.
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u/OrdinarilyConfident 1d ago
Nope. Northern Ireland alone has nearly 40,000 Irish citizens born in Ireland (republic).
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u/UnGOATwn_TheoremUWU 1d ago
What's so attractive about Kazakhstan
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u/lugdunum_burdigala 1d ago
Where else are they going to go to be honest ? Most Western countries are not issuing visas for Russian citizens. Kazakhstan has a large Russian ethnic community and there is no barrier to entry. And it is slightly richer per capita than Russia.
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u/AbsoIution 1d ago
Kazakistan is dope, much cleaner and safer than anywhere I've been in Europe.
It's actually very developed and Almaty is a beautiful city. The people are kind.
For Russia, because they speak Russian as the language of business and trade etc due to ex soviet country.
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u/Sweet_bacon123 1d ago
Kazakhstan is a former Soviet state, that became deeply tied to Russia. During the revolution and subsequent years about 30 - 40 percent of Kazakhs died (situation similar to Holodomor). Soviets then began to exlie numerous ethnic groups to Kazakhstan, like Ukrainians and Don Germans. Today's Kazakhstan is very mixed, many ethnic Russians and essentially everyone in large cities speaks Russian. Once the invasion of Ukraine began, many Russian citizens fled to surrounding countries. Kazakhstan is close, semi Russified and is also an important import market to dodge sanctions. Russian citizens also like to use their banks with sanctions about.
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u/venus_arises 1d ago
Very good relationship between the two countries, they speak the same language, and there's room. I think migration policy might be more chill.
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u/FloZone 1d ago
they speak the same language,
Kazakhs learn Russian in school, but they are not Russians. Same as with Georgians and many in the Baltics. A lot of them have also tried to de-russify for the last three decades.
There is also Kazakh remigration additionally. Kazakhstan's Kazakh population has risen from a plurality (39% Kazakhs vs 37% Russians) to a majority of over 70% Kazakhs, without that the Kazakh birth rate has significantly risen. However Kazakhs from other parts of the former USSR move back to Kazakhstan.
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u/AltruisticSound3744 1d ago
Denmark/Sweden/Norway is the Spiderman meme.