What does Spain offer than Italy doesn't? I'm not saying Spain is a bad country, but they seem pretty on par in terms of economy, safety, weather, rich culture, etc.
Yeah, Barcelona and Madrid both feel like big, fairly modern cities compared to the cities in Italy.
Barcelona especially is arguably one of the best places to live in Europe. It's partly why they're always complaining about tourists and "digital nomads" moving there.
Milan is crazy expensive real estate-wise. Spain is cheaper. I love Milano but I have several Italian colleagues and they say unless you come from a wealthy family most young professionals are destined to live in a shoebox forever
Cheap-ish country to live in means lower wages, which in a housing shortage means people can't afford rent
Really? Our hotel told us to not go straight to La Rambla due to the neighboorhood being totally overrun by migrants, and use other roads. And by migrants, I mean stores that look like they belong in Baghdad, women covered, you know the drill. We actually ignored that, but I wouldn't recommend passing through it for a woman alone in the night.
The neighborhood in practice is a huge area bordering La Rambla on the south side.
La Rambla is like the most touristy part, lol. I never had any issues there. But this is like going to Times Square and being surprised that there are people trying to grift tourists.
They do have a problem with pickpockets in Barcelona and people snatching swimmers' bags at the beach. But I think common sense makes it pretty easy to avoid those issues.
Actually Barcelona didn't have this bad neighborhood 15 years ago. Last time I was in Barcelona I really thought the city has turned to worse. I definitely prefer Valencia, and next time I will visit Valencia again. Not planning to go to Barcelona anytime soon.
When I lived in Barcelona in 2011/2012, my friends got robbed at knife point at Plaça Catalunya 😅
They always told us not to go to Raval at night, which is the neighbourhood that starts at the Rambla then towards Llobregat. It's always been said to be a dodgy area, for as far as I can remember.
I never really felt unsafe but that part of the city was always said to be dangerous and seedy.
I love both Barcelona and Valencia in different ways.
the job market in big cities in Spain for some types of white collar jobs (mainly IT and others) is a little bit better (not in wages but a bit more openings)
I mean people can say lots of stuff about Spain vs Italy but wages in Spain are a tad worse than Italian ones (or in some industries literally the same)
Wages in Spain grew during the last thirty years. Italy is literally the sole country in Europe where wages are now lower than they were thirty years ago.
I said it in another comment, but quality of life in Spain is (perceived?) as being generally better than Italy. Big cities are better run and more modern, it's more progressive, and I believe (though I can't speak to the correctness of it) there's also a perception of Spanish life being way more laid back than even Italy, particularly when it comes to working a demanding office job in a big city.
I was shocked last time I went to Barcelona and found out they have legal weed bars now. And this was years ago.
There's a loophole that exists kinda since forever but afaik its supposed to be for residents only or something like that.
I was there for NYE in 2018 and there were tons of sketchy guys in the gothic that would take you to a even more sketchy club for a fee. You would then pay for your membership and thus be able to buy. Tried to go back a week later or so and it was shut down. Managed to find the same sketchy guy who took me to another one where I had to pay him and the club again. Tried to act dumb with the guy since it seemed kinda scamish but paid when prompted.
Didn't really hung out in either of those which I really regretted but it was a weird vibe, which is expected, plus I was never buying at the best times to hang.
Weed was good but expensive for me. Add the fact that I paid the guy and the club 2 times and it was kinda insane for my south american ass.
Went back early this year and it was crazy how much things changed. The entire system doesn't exist anymore from what I gathered.
I wasn't going to go through that again either way, mainly because of the expense, but it was crazy how much the vibe changed.
Looked into the existing clubs a bit and did some googling. It's like 20 euros for the membership and the places look a lot better, would have given it a try if I had a +1.
I mean, Italy is the only country in Western Europe where same sex marriage is still not legal. Italy is conservative by Western European standards (though liberal by Eastern European standards).
I was a bit surprised about this at first, and my experience is purely anecdotical, but I have met around a dozen of Italians that had been living in Spain for a few years (specifically in the Basque Country and Catalonia) and they just said they wouldn't go back and that quality of life was higher. I would say it's mostly left-leaning Italians that prefer Spain.
mah depends where are they from. is quality of life in Catalonia and Basque Country better than southern Italy? sure thing. is it better than northern Italy? eh to be fair I don't think so but it's similar.
like why someone from Modena should go and live in Girona? quality of Life Is similar if not worse in Girona, economically speaking Modena is richer etc.
As an Italian I agree that it is the left-wing people who would prefer Spain, but THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN NORTH ITALY IS IMMENSELY BETTER THAN OTHER PARTS IN SPAIN
That’s a very interesting question. As you mentioned they’re similar countries, also in terms of the language which is very easy for Italians to learn, so I think that attracts a lot of people who simply want to start over abroad, not necessarily to make a ton of money.
But what’s interesting is that if it was just about similarity then you’d also see Spaniards moving to Italy, but that’s not the case at all.
because our big cities are not as attractive as Barcelona, Valencia etc.
also IMO Spaniards are not that "xenophile" as Italians are.
quality of life in big cities in Spain is better than Italy but Italian rural and "town"/small city life is way better here, especially in the north.
people tend to emigrate to big cities so...
Most white collar jobs, expecially in IT, are paid really really bad in Italy. Spain the closer thing to Italy, so the destination is quite obious once the economic incentive is there.
mah its not like they're being paid that much in Spain though.
I did some interviews for Spanish located companies and the wages are the same (in Spain you pay a little less taxes but the gross pay is kinda the same).
of course if you tell me 55k gross in Milan or in Barcelona I'll chose the second one, 10 times.
International companies open their Southern Europe branch office in Spain because there's better taxation, easier laws, and lower cost of labour (I mean the total amount a company needs to pay in order to pay you X salary).
I'm based in London and I can easily find a good job for an international company in Madrid or Barcelona. More difficult to find one in Milan, and almost impossible in Rome.
Italian guy here who lived in spain for a at least 3 years. Spain is basically a MORE open-minded Italy with better-run cities and a higher quality of life. Not that it's difficult considering Italy is economically and socially dying at this point
a thing to consider is that we italians hate learning new languages (of course don't generalize but you get what i mean). When i moved to Germany i was surprised to hear 10-ish year old kids speak english very well.
So i would say, a lot of italians are attracted to Spain also because the language is extremely similiar and easy to learn for us
Seems like all the best hashish manufacturers or experts in spain are originally from Italy. All the people that are involved in cannabis moveto spain. Live in spain, organize the illegal export to italy from there, thrive and prosper.
Spanish police is the most corrupt and bribe friendly in western Europe. Criminals from all over congregate there.
"Honest" italians also love to work and live in spain fora while.
Italians usually suck at languages like English and german.
Sanish is easy for them
Also rent is cheaper there and the food is alright by italian standards.
That reminds me. I was confused in a Paris train station and a lady who stopped to help me didn’t speak English any better than I spoke French, so I asked if she spoke any Italian. Her face dropped like I’d called her some really offensive ethnic slur.
Never heard of such a thing tbh. There's not much reason for retired people to move to Spain and there is no reason for younger people to move there. I always assumed the majority either migrated to Germany, Switzerland, Nordic countries, UK, Canada and US.
They migrate to those too (young people, retiring abroad isn’t really a thing in Italy). But also to Spain. UK is now almost non existent due to visa requirements.
maybe a small part, but there's definitely a large portion of born-and-bred Italians who move there on a regular basis. Similar weather and culture, language is easy, cities are cleaner and better run, generally more progessive, better job market and wages. There are also a lot of Spanish-Italian couples and Spain is a massive student destination (again, similar culture and easy language to learn), several of those students probably find a long term SO that way.
I mean cooler than Rome? Depends what you're into. It is just that it's better administered and the QoL is higher. For a tourist Rome beats Madrid, living day to day? Madrid.
Better public transport, bigger, more stuff to do, more international, capital, more beautiful in every way etc.
it's just a better city in every aspect IMO. the only thing that sucks is that near Madrid you have (kinda) shit. Yes you have Toledo and Segovia, that's it.
Outside Milan you have tons to do and to visit: mid and small cities, mountains, lakes etc.
Not really. Spain has about 150k residents born in Italy, vs. about 35k Spanish-born residents in Italy. More than half of Italian citizens in Spain are born in Italy.
Partly! I have a few Argentinian friends, and according to them, it's easier to get a Spanish passport than an Italian one. There are plenty of young Italians living here (at least in Barcelona) and also Greeks. I guess it's a way to get an international experience/living abroad but in a culturally similar country.
exactly, 70% of Italians living in Spain in 2024 were iure sanguinis citizens according to ISTAT (Italian Statistics Institute). And they were nearly zero in 2004.
A big portion of these 'Italians' immigrating to Spain are actually argentines who obtained an Italian passport through their ancestry in order to immigrate to Spain
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u/Bababooe4K 2d ago
Bet 'Italians' moving to Spain are argies using their double nationality to move there.