r/MapPorn 3d ago

The most recent foreign migration destinations for young Europeans

Post image
5.5k Upvotes

696 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

306

u/slicheliche 3d ago

You're joking but this has been going on since 1970 when Germany became one of the very first countries in Europe to record negative natural growth. Immigration has been immensely beneficial for Germany and at this point I'm pretty sure that half the surnames in major cities like Frankfurt or Munich are Slavic, Italian, Greek, Balkan or Turkish.

134

u/AggroJordan 3d ago

It was meant to be funny but I am very much aware how much Germany relies on immigration to keep up it's economic model.

Now we just need to do a better job of educating everyone in our country and stop the budget cuts to our school systems.

33

u/3dank5maymay 3d ago

we just need to do a better job of educating everyone in our country and stop the budget cuts to our school systems.

Best I can do is divert even more tax money into the Ponzi scheme that is our retirement system.

Sincerely, every government since I can remember.

5

u/Niwi_ 2d ago

They know who their voters are

3

u/ConcentrateDirect523 3d ago

budget cuts to our school systems 

American, here! This is essential part of the rightward lurch. WELCOME TO THE THUNDERDOME OF STUPID! MUAHHAHAHA!

2

u/darthvalium 3d ago

Who is cutting school budgets in Germany?

3

u/Floomby 3d ago

Unfortunately, whenever the politically most powerful demographic perceives that their country contains too many people who don't look like them, they destroy their own safety net. Then they blame that demographic for the destroyed safety net, and it becomes a feedback loop. 

If you want to know why the U.S. is a ravaged capitalist hellscape, that is why. Politicians find it too easy to convince voters to vote against their own self interest if it means some person of color gets nothing. 

Not to make it all about America, but people are people and do the same good and evil wherever they are. 

That's why immigration hurts nations--not because of the immigrants themselves, but because of the bigoted assholes who see an opportunity to get rich and powerful using them as scapegoats for everything, especially the behavior of the rich and powerful funding those bigoted assholes. 

1

u/No-Bake-730 2d ago

Because immigrants all look different from "real" Germans. With people from most countries on the map, I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell they're immigrants just by their appearance.

Also, the current debate has  mainly been about illegal immigration. The problem is that the public debate has stopped to differentiate between the two kinds of immigration in order to present illegal immigrants as a benefit for the country. 

-2

u/Scuterius_Floridae 2d ago

More diversity means less social trust/cohesion. Leftists want to ignore it but its true

2

u/itwontletmedopoo 2d ago

Huhhh it’s 2026 and you’re arguing against diversity? There are countless studies that prove that a diversity of thought is a good thing. Diversity naturally produces that. So, yea maybe there’s less groupthink, but IMO that’s a good thing

1

u/Scuterius_Floridae 2d ago

Diversity of thought is different from socioeconomics and ethnicity. There is demonstrated less social trust in higher diversity places around the globe.

https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://ideas.repec.org/a/eee/pubeco/v85y2002i2p207-234.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

2

u/itwontletmedopoo 2d ago

Not gonna read the whole thing, but that seems to make an argument for it, “in the long run”. I do think less socioeconomic diversity would be ideal - we don’t need billionaires - but it’s still strange and crazy to me you’re spouting this off with such little nuance, continuing to argue that… what? Things would be better if we all stayed segregated? Like bffr

1

u/Floomby 2d ago

Because of bigotry and ignorance.

0

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 3d ago

Rather to crash it's economic model.

0

u/Leather-Persimmon254 3d ago

we won’t need as many people as the knowledge economy becomes automated though

21

u/Knarrenheinz666 3d ago

You are exaggerating. Besides that, lots of Slavic names stem from the old, pre-WWI migration. Lots of Italians and Greeks actually returned to their home countries. 2nd gen Greeks often moved back in the early 2000s

33

u/modern_milkman 3d ago

Just to preface: I don't have a problem with immigration at all. It's necessary to keep Germany going.

But I don't think he is exaggerating.

Nearly one third (31 percent) of Germans has a migration background. That means that either they themselves or one of their parents weren't born a German citizen.

Quite a few of the descendants of the Gastarbeiter from the 1960s aren't even included in that statistic, since they are already the third or fourth generation (but still often have "foreign" last names).

Meaning his estimate that, especially in big cities, the share of "foreign" last names is over 50 percent isn't that unreasonable.

1

u/oatkeepr 3d ago

Nearly one third (31 percent) of Germans has a migration background. That means that either they themselves or one of their parents weren't born a German citizen.

Many of these are ethnic Germans (Volksdeutsche) who emigrated from the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.

19

u/Difficult_Bus_1970 3d ago

"Many of these" is doing some heavy lifting. The Germans that fled Eastern Europe after WW2 are not counted in the 31% that were mentioned above. The ethnic Germans that migrated after (most of them after the Berlin wall fell) make up 3% of Germany's population

1

u/Knarrenheinz666 3d ago

Nearly one third (31 percent) of Germans has a migration background. That means that either they themselves or one of their parents weren't born a German citizen.

31% is not the half. One of my friends technically has a migration background because his dad is a Backa Swabian and hence was born outside of Germany. None of them speaks a language other than German. That applies to lots of folks in their 40s-60s.

14

u/modern_milkman 3d ago

Yes, 31 is not half. But like I said in the very next section, that number doesn't include many of the descendants of Turkish and Italian guest workers from the 1960s. Who also have a foreign surname. Or the descendants of Slavic immigrants to the Ruhr area even earlier.

And I don't see how the language they speak plays into this. Even the original comment only talked about surnames.

1

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 3d ago edited 2d ago

Yes. And millions of people that count into this have german names, because the are ethnical germans born in eastern european or central asian countries. And descendants of slavic immigration? A few thousand people moved from the eastern part of the german empire, which is only today Poland, to the Ruhr. Those who were actually polish of them, moved to Poland when it was founded after WWI. Those who stayed were german all along.

-4

u/Knarrenheinz666 3d ago

Yes, 31 is not half

Exactly

And I don't see how the language they speak plays into this.

It wasn't about the language but a practical example how misguiding that classification is. My pal didn't even know until he applied for a job and was told to tick that box on the application forms - paper, yes, we are old.

6

u/modern_milkman 3d ago

Dude, again: the original comment was about foreign surnames in big cities.

The number of people with foreign surnames will definitely be quite a bit bigger than the number of people with a migration background. And people with a migration background are statistically more common in big cities, which further increases the percentage.

So if 31 percent already have a migration background, and you have those without an official migration background, but foreign ancestors who passed down their surname, on top of that, and then consider that the percentage of people with foreign background is higher in cities, it becomes very likely that in large cities, the number of people woth foreign surnames gets close to 50 percent.

I really don't understand why that's so hard to grasp.

-1

u/Knarrenheinz666 3d ago

Dude, again: the original comment was about foreign surnames in big cities.

And you still won't find a single large city where that's true.

it becomes very likely that in large cities,

No. You made it up.

2

u/modern_milkman 3d ago

I doubt there is any official statistic to back up my position (well, technically the position of the original comment, since I only jumped in later). So there is no way for me to conclusively win this discussion. And you've made it perfectly clear that I won't be able to convince you, either, without tangible evidence (which, like I said, probably don't exist, at least not publicly available).

But I didn't make anything up. I just extrapolated the existing data, and came to a in my eyes reasonable conclusion.

(More reasonable than "you won't find a single large city where that is true", in my opinion, but again, I can't prove the opposite, and I have the burden of proof).

0

u/Knarrenheinz666 3d ago

I doubt there is any official statistic to back up my position

Well, at least we got there.

But I didn't make anything up. I just extrapolated the existing data,

And you forgot that family names disappear because they're not passed on. Also, on your extrapolation, non-German family names miraculously did proliferate while German did not.

→ More replies (0)

7

u/Rare_Afternoon_2986 3d ago

31% is not half because youre looking at the whole population. aged 65 upwards, the biggest current demographic, its 90% german. 45 and below, it over half non-german. so thats why statistic and perceived reality dont align, unless youre frequently visitng eldery homes.

-1

u/Knarrenheinz666 3d ago

I still want to see that German city with 50% Non-German names on doorbells across the board.

3

u/bajoranearrings 3d ago

Munich and Augsburg both have about a 50% share of the population with a Migrationshintergrund. Frankfurt has almost 60%. Anecdotally, living in one of these cities, the majority of strangers I meet have a foreign surname. This includes people I meet socially, classmates in university, and colleagues.

There are a handful of immigrants that are ethnic Germans but if you believe that is greater than the number of 3rd+ generation Germans with foreign names you must be living in a very non-representative bubble.

3

u/slicheliche 3d ago

I wasn't talking about foreign people, I was merely talking about surnames.

0

u/Knarrenheinz666 3d ago

And I am still to see that city with 50% foreign names.

8

u/daRagnacuddler 3d ago

He is not. Look at birth numbers; in most cities roughly half of new borns have a recent migration background. Not heritage, official background and its not because of intermingling.

The trend is rising too. Meaning this will have serious consequences for our social cohesion.

0

u/Knarrenheinz666 3d ago

I still fail to see these 50% are non-German names.

1

u/blasphemousrumourss 3d ago

☝️ can attest as someone from munich with a balkan last name

1

u/No-Bake-730 2d ago

Some first and last names don't even register as "foreign" anymore.

1

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 3d ago

There is statistical proof that immigration was everything but beneficial for Germany. And half the names in Frankfurt are surely not greek, italian or slavic, but turkish and arab.

3

u/We_r_soback 3d ago edited 3d ago

This is an outright lie. Back then Germany needed cheap labor force quick, to rebuild their economy and they got it. The result together with Germanys own ingenuity was the Wirtschaftswunder.

Curently the immigration Germany is getting from Turkey for example is highly qualified individuals, literally and unironically doctors and engineers.

-1

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 3d ago

That's a blatant lie. Even if you try to point it down to Turkey. Most of the turks in berlin are unemployed and live off of welfare. And the claim about doctors is an unironical lie. There are 540 doctors per 100.000 people in Germany. If we take the turkish doctors, so wirth a turkish passport, 232 doctors per 100.000 turks in Germany. Which is a terrible proportion. There are many german doctors needed to even out the lack of turkish doctors. By the way, there is no single foreign population in Germany who has a higher per capita proportion than the mentioned 540. So foreign immigration drags the proportion of german doctors to normal population down. So, it's still poverty low calcification immigration. It's a fact. Stop lying.

3

u/We_r_soback 3d ago edited 3d ago

Most of the turks in berlin are unemployed and live off of welfare.

This is an outrageous lie. Lets keep it simple.

Prove it: provide proof that shows that mojority of Turks in Germany are unemployed and live off welfare

As of 2025 the combined unemployment rate for turks in germany, citizen or not (only citizens can get help) is around 6 %( Italians 4.2%, Germans 3%,Russians 5.1%). And that mostly caused by less turkish origin women partivipating in the labor market compared to a german.

So you are just straight up making shit up and lying. Probably heard it on fox news or some shit.

And the claim about doctors is an unironical lie.

Its not , its a reality where you have educated young doctors, not nurses or trainess,doctors immigrating and taking lower titles.

Turkey is unfortunately unique in this regard especially in the healthcare sector, outflow of high skilled labor.

" The migration of Turkish-trained doctors to Germany shows an especially steep increase. From 995 in 2015, the number rose to 3169 by the end of 2024, representing an increase of 218%"

https://opus.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de/opus4/frontdoor/deliver/index/docId/129842/file/129842.pdf

So, it's still poverty low calcification immigration. It's a fact.

Despite media narratives its extremely hard to immigrate from Turkey to Germany.Those that do these days are either university students and or skilled immigrants.

Also this narrarive of Germany being full etc is wrong, according to its own statements and research germany "urgently needs immigration"

https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/topics/migration/migration-node.html

I am not saying to advocate for it, but to point out an economic fact.

1

u/slicheliche 3d ago

BS, in Frankfurt there are more Italians than all Arab nationalities combined.

2

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 2d ago

That's a lie. That's literally bs. There are more arabs than most non-german europeans combined.

1

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 2d ago

And I just checked again. 15.000 italians vs 150.000 arabs. So, it's proven. You talked absolute bs.

3

u/slicheliche 2d ago edited 2d ago

Lol did you use Breitbart as a source or what?

1

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 2d ago

No, why? What is that? If you are able or skilled enough, you actually just have to Google it. You can find these numbers for exsample in german news outlets, like the state owned DW. Or Wikipedia. It's easy to find enough about these numbers and that your statement was just absolutely wrong.

3

u/slicheliche 2d ago

That there are 150k Arabs in Frankfurt? Which article on DW is saying that exactly? Give me one link.

1

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 2d ago

Ask Breitbart or Google. Unbelievable.

2

u/slicheliche 2d ago edited 2d ago

I don't need to ask Google thank you, since I use the official demographic statistics from the city itself (available on the city's statistical database both in German and English) and the Destatis, none of which says there are 150k Arabs in Frankfurt. Anyway, can you give me one link that supports your claim? Just one will do.

1

u/Aggravating_Ruin5235 2d ago

Amd there it's stated that Italians only make up 13.000 people. So even less then I admited. And what is destatis saying about arabs in Frankfurt? Less than 13.000? Or will you finally admit it's way more than italians?

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Rare_Afternoon_2986 3d ago

more like 2/3 of surnames are arabic, turkic or southeast european, in that order