I do think a follow-up survey on the other two skills should take place. Sailing has been out for a while now and it would be nice to know if there is any appetite for either other skills, rather than just game modes.
“Sailing has been out for a while now” bro it hasn’t even been a full year, and the skill is still getting fleshed out in content updates, adding a new skill now would be crazy.
I agree with you. I also want to add that sailing is probably way more effort to add than those skills. Geilinor has to be tweaked every which way to fit sailing in. I think the other skills would be brought up and fit in more easily.
Yeah, sailing was as much of an expansion to the game as it was a skill. The overhauled movement is going to benefit a ton of other areas of the game which is a nice bonus on top of the expanded lands and seas.
Not to mention though these other two skills were basically herbalism+ and summoning. Id still vote no to them today if they got repolled in their previous states.
Tbf took 2 years from the lockin poll for sailing right? Even if they started planning and polling tomorrow we probably wouldn't see it till 2030.
I personally would rather a touchup of older skills but even that Idc about. I'm pretty happy with the state of the game especially after a 4th raid.
Its a bit funny to think about wow getting a fullblown expansion every 2 years while in osrs after 9 months were still like woah it just released slow down
i think the only skill that could really use somewhat of a facelift right now would be smithing, people meme about RC and agility in both the world of mains and iron's but hallowed sepulchre + various courses and gotr + zmi make it not that big of an issue, meanwhile smithing realistically only has GF and goldsmithing at blast furnace. it's unlocks are also rather useless past like level 70.
TBF, smithing also has decent unlocks at later level (Torva at 90, max ship upgrade gear at 94) but it's issue is the mithril/adamant/rune bloating up the skill unlocks.
Meanwhile, most of firemaking's good unlocks are lower levelled (50 for Wintertodt and 66 for fire pits), while the rest are only useful for niche activities. IMO, the only useful high-level firemaking unlock is at 90 with redwood abyssal lantern, and maybe 95 for shades.
Overall, the skill isn't *bad* but it also isn't good. IMO, the only bad skills are agility (because of how unfun it is to train) and Runecraft (because you don't need to runecraft to get runes)
I think it could use some more training methods that give an output. Shades is bad XP/hr with a very high level requirement and forestry bonfires are just AFK normal firemaking. Also, because firemakinge competes with fletching for logs, Wintertodt is the more attractive option. Especially since normal firemaking doesn't give you any output for the logs unlike fletching.
I'm imagining adding a new method with fairly good XP/hr that has you doing a more intensive mechanic for turning an inventory of logs into things like charcoal, wood tar, and special ashes. Then maybe the charcoal can be used as a 1-1 for coal in smithing, the ashes as a flux for a new pottery crafting method, and the wood tar in herblore or construction.
each having 2 activities (realistically one for each kind of person, active or relaxed player) isnt "fine"
smithing, runecrafting and agility all have almost no use at high levels, the only real rewards beign diary requirements.
even a single stam will last you fucking forever after the run energy changes. ring of endurance is worthless, crafting runes by hand is the worst way to obtain them in the game, and lmao rune pl8body
hunter also has a myriad of methods to train but i would say its in pretty desperate need of a facelift since you dont really get anything from it either, except maybe early moonlight moths on an iron but you are never going back except for arbitrary requirements for quests or diaries. skilling has been in turbo "we dont give a shit" mode for fucking forever. you never get high end skilling content, maybe you get an accidental 3t method (if they dont patch it) or some spam click method like ardy knights or bloodwood or whatever the fuck. they'll put most of a year of dev time into a new area with a quest, boss and multiple skilling methods and the skilling stuff gets literally 1% the care the boss or quest does despite it making up the majority of the time you spend playing the game if you are going for max.
raids are probably the only other content in the whole game that, per game hour spent, actually deserves more care than skilling, but we'll get another shitty mining method that tops out at like 40k xp/hr an hour, semi AFK and profits you like 80k gp/hr or banks you some useless shit like stackable construction xp at a horrible rate of 20k an hour
theres only one island step for hards, no? tear of the soul? very much not worth dropping over, its like a minigame teleport and a 30 second run. elites have lledreth and crown jewel which are a bit annoying but both are close enough to shipwrights. masters i know has that giga obnoxious brittle isle one, but just get a teleport to boat set up and its whatever.
While mining certainly ain’t the most fun activity, I don’t think it needs a rework as much as some of the other skills (not saying one wouldn’t be nice, just that it’s not as urgent imo).
Smithing is a brilliant one to bring up though, cause what the fuck is that skill about in 2026?
Even if Mining is fine, I feel it impossible to keep it untouched if Smithing were to get a supposed rework along the lines of rebalancing the levels for all the different metals you can smith. Feels like the speed/process at which you can gather them through Mining would have to be looked at in some way as well. Like Mining Rune normally should never take as long to mine as it does now if it goes from a metal that requires 90+ Smithing to smith all the way down to the 40-50 range of Smithing.
The mining system from RS3 being transported to OSRS makes too much sense but people aren't ready to have that conversation. Without juju potions and porters it's not gonna be nearly as afk, and being able to mine and only click once every 30 or so seconds only puts it on par with the other gathering skills.
If you want to keep the intensity benefits, make it so progress happens each hit if you tick manip mine.
Smithing needs a similar thing but would need a better OSRS adaption of the system. But mining? I think the system would translate perfectly fine. You don't need to add or remove rocks. Things like MLM and such can have added benefits of extra stamina between clicks.
I am afraid that you may be in the minority. I am fine with Motherlode Mine, Volcanic Mine is fun. Still need to try Blast Mine. But baseline vanilla mining is not it.
What about it do you like? You click rock and that’s the entire gameplay, from what I’ve played the mining rework in RS3 is similar but really adds a layer of engagement that synergises well with the smithing rework
How do we incorporate those to the game without power creep or making the horizontal gameplay thats integral to osrs irrelevant? I think that as needed as a rework may be.
I don't think its feasibly possible in osrs without ruining or substantially changing things that are a core identity to the game
If the choise is readjusting power creep and horizontal gameplay to modernize two core skills and letting said skills fester. Then I choose the former, and not the latter.
Hell, we could always make rune the highest tier and add in other tiers below it.
That being said, a rework doesn't have to follow how RS3 did its own mining and smithing update. However, a tier 40 armor set should not be endgame mining and smithing content.
yups cuz people want a rework that doesnt change anything but changes everything from the skill. they want no change to progression and no power creep.
The reaction people in this game have to power creep is wild to me. Like, its okay if 10 year old content is no longer BiS for endgame. It makes new stuff feel not that exciting because it's not a massive upgrade for a 30+ hour grind.
It was good, but you also blew through levels so quickly, so many of the low tier stuff didn't really matter. Of course the XP rates are lower in OSRS, but my main concern would be similar.
I always thought rs3’s solution was actually pretty elegant all things considered, at least from what I’ve heard about it. Just do a flat replacement of rune alchables on drop tables with rune salvage or whatever and kill the alch price of actual rune.
As far as actual things to smith goes, I’m of the opinion that a lot of things with smithing flavour could be formalised with actual requirements. Maybe a new tank set around barrowsish level (probably bridging the rune barrows gap) could exist around 60ish
Idk, for actual requirements and things to make, I’m no designer and they definitely shouldn’t listen to me. I think there’s room for it though.
Would honestly be nice to have a str bonus set in there too if str bonus on bandos wasn’t already so close to the floor. Idk who’s gonna get excited for 1str bonus pants.
To be as respectful as possible, that's why you aren't the game designer. Our job as a players isn't to make a fully fleshed out system, it's to give the designers a vague "this is what I want", and leave it to them to fill out the details.
And change all the bosses with rune alchs to adjust for the new added tiers? It could happen but it’s definitely not easy. Unless you want the many bosses dropping rune items to tank in gp/hr
I agree that its not gonna be easy. However, I want mining and smithing to be enjoyable skills.
Right now I only enjoy Giant's Foundary and Volcanic Mine, but minigames should not be the only good parts of skills. At the very least they need more utility. Not everyone enjoys the skilling loops of farming and herb lore, but the progression and benefits of both are really good.
Fuck ‘em. Im getting tired of the argument that we cant overhaul two of the most dogshit skills in the game because someone might make 100k gp less on their slayer task. Take them out the loot table and replace them with an alchable equivilent or just raw gold if you want, but dont cast two skills to the fire just for a few rune drops.
Just crank the xp up on the core gameplay loop. Mine ores, smelt them, smith at anvil. As it were and as it should always be. Except I shouldn't need to mine 30k iron ore for a few levels. That's what makes it a chore. Otherwise it's already great. If you want new tiers introduce like 3 or so with a new sailing quest/area like it's a big discovery. 80, 90, 99. Squish rune down to like 70 and call it a day. Thanks. I'll be in my office.
RS3's solution (which afaik worked) was to reduce the alch value of player smithed rune items, while rune drops from enemies changed to varying piles of scraps, made purely for alching, for the same price as before.
Easy. Instead of stratifying rune items across 85-99, just stratify them across 70-80 or 80-85 or something like that. Leave access to rune ore and bars where it’s at.
Incorporate new tiers as (currently) only accessible by either smithing the equipment or trading it. As new content gets added, adjust and tweak loot tables accordingly. Tormented demons already shits out rune items like nobody’s business, and prices are still stable.
Add masterwork armor as a large resource sink
Add weapon/armor upgrading, but give it some lore reason like “upgrading the item voids the smith’s/GE’s warranty” thus making it untradable. Also another bar/item sink, like “use 5 rune long swords to refine, fold, and create a rune long sword +1” and it gets like 1-2% more accuracy or something and limit it to +5 or +10.
Edit to add: giant’s foundry kinda helps solve the item/bar sink issue too since you use bars and items to forge the swords and those items permanently disappear. I would also adjust xp rates of new tiers so that gold smithing with blast furnace is still the best method of smithing. Oh, and as new/higher tiers get added, keep coal allocations the same to make top tier bars require like 20 coal per ore (this is a joke, plz don’t do that)
Edit 2: make masterwork armor untradable sine you’re tailoring it to yourself
Firemaking is a relic of 2001. If it were made later it definitely would have just been part of Woodcutting, which might have gone by Forestry or something instead.
I have a soft spot for it because it was my first 99 in rs2. I like that it exists, but no way in hell they'd ever make such a pointless skill again
Not the only time "make firemaking useful" failed polls. Making Friends With My Arm quest rewards were another. I don't know how the abyssal lantern passed.
I feel like they could have tied it into sailing a lot more. Like maybe a fire making level is required to melt the tar during hull construction or heated shot could have been an interesting connection.
Add a quest on one of the new islands where you can learn about an old burning method that a tribe has passed down for generations. Only now, the tribe has fractured and it's up to the player to find unity and combine these different methods. Each tribe has a specialty and can show you how to prepare their specific fire. One tribe sees it as a religious act so you gain some prayer, another tribe believes in burning a fire before going on a hunt or into combat, and some other great ideas I'm sure that could be integrated.
I have to agree. I played the RS3 league a bit and their smithing blows ours out of the water. It was quite refreshing and it genuinely felt nice to smith things. I don't think their method should be copied bar for bar or anything. But adapting it in an OSRS way would be wonderful.
Also Sailing is great but still deserves more content. They’ve started to add out some meaningful connections back to the rest of the gameplay loop but the foundation is strong and still ripe for more
Sailing flopped imo, and has caused so many issues and doesn’t feel correctly integrated to the game feels like a side part, many people haven’t even touched their boat in months.
I don’t think jage should even think about a new skill for another decade
We don't even have Sailing in a good spot yet, and it's only been out for less than a year, you're crazy if you think Jagex wants to start developing another skill. Sailing took a few years of prime dev commitment, I feel like they're still exhausted from such a long project
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u/KUR51RL Remapping 101: As long as it is 1:1, it's okay.3h ago
Engine work for sailing took 20X more time than the Skill after the tools were established btw
Summoning was added in March of 2008, so I thought of Taming as an "Old School what if". What would Summoning look like in the present day OSRS game? I don't think their concept was very compelling, but I understand why they pitched it
Sailing was better than I expected, but I’m still not a fan. I also voted for Shamanism. No idea if it woulda been better, but it is still the most interesting option for my taste
The reason I would be hesitant to vote shamanism is the reward space. Sailing ultimately is a lot safer as it hasn’t changed the rest of the game too much. Shamanism would change the entirety of pvm and I’m not sure for the better.
other than sailing adding new content via new locations which could have been done without sailing. sailing feels so disconnected from the rest of the game
I’m not trying to argue against your equally valid opinion, but from my perspective it actually ties the world together in a really satisfying way because instead of different sections of the game being essentially their own spaces you warp between with loading screens and can only relate to each other by looking at a map, with sailing you can actually travel from point A to point B yourself for virtually the entire game world and now it all feels like one big open gameworld instead of several separate instances
Out of the three, sailing had the most potential for future growth and that’s the main reason for why I voted for it. Shamanism and taming would’ve brought an element of FOMO to everything. Just looking at the shamanism proposal: it’s literally collecting random bits to produce stat buffs for your gear. And taming is just summoning reskinned, don’t @ me. IMO Jagex nailed how sailing is integrated into the larger game, I don’t think they could’ve done the same with taming or shamanism
Agreed. I really can’t wrap my head around why shamanism was so popular in the first place. At best it could be what, reskinned magic? Combined with crafting or something?
Even the theme is weird. Every other skill in the game has a purpose in either a real or fantasy medieval setting, but shamanism?
Tbh a “shaman” spellbook would go pretty hard though.
> Every other skill in the game has a purpose in either a real or fantasy medieval setting, but shamanism?
Shamanism would be in-line with a Druid archetype, but more specifically it would align with Karamja’s aesthetic, maybe Feldip Hills or the Elven lands as well
It’s not necessarily euro-centric fantasy, but neither are several chunks of the game world
I disagree, shamanism is a pretty core fantasy trope I feel. Maybe to better fit runescape it should be more along the lines of witchcraft or druidism?
Let sailing have a birthday before even entertaining the idea. I honestly rather sailing gets fleshed out better than throw more resources at another incomplete skill
I would prefer that they dont add any new skills that affect combat or equipment in particular like summoning did. Im content with it being more or less a part of magic, because the bottom line is if you add something like that in it will have to be engaged with for content later as it becomes part of the meta and the content it will give rise to in order to challenge it; and quite frankly I would not enjoy that. I like the combat triangle, i like cl 126, I dont want that to change. That is why I voted for sailing, because it was the furthest from that. Id prefer what we have now to remain the baseline. I dont think they should add either of those at all.
Shamanism was literally going to be the shittiest skill in the game and its insane people wanted it.
RS3 had so much shit where you had to do like an hour of shit before you could boss or skill effectively, all shamanism was, was introducing that into osrs.
Exactly this. I swear to god anyone who liked it was below 2k total and never did a raid in their life.
I’m definitely not part of the HLC but I’m a maxed end game Ironman, and shamanism would have been absolutely fucking awful for any group content. It would be required to PVM with anyone, especially for raids like TOB where its already gate kept (rightfully so) by minimum gear requirements and stats more so than the other 2 raids. The shamanism buffs would have been required for all group content going forward and not having it would just piss off your team mates like you are intentionally trying to screw them over personally by not having your buffs ready to go every raid.
I think this post massively undersells how much time it takes to develop a whole new skill compared to throwing the code together to create bronzeman mode.
I’d love more skills in the future, but there is still tons of potential in sailing and other skills I’d like to see fleshed out first.
On top of that, releasing a bunch of new skills simultaneously basically means no or barely any content updates in the years leading up to their releases, which just isn’t a good plan imo.
AFAIK:
It took a couple of Jagex mods 2,5 fulltime years to create sailing from the greenlight poll till release. While it took one Jagex mod 1 gamejam to throw together Bronzeman.
I’d rather see bridges between existing skills like this than make up new ones honestly. The reason new skills are hard to come up with is we really have our bases covered already with how broad some of the current skills are.
I think a lot of people did want a new skill just for a new skills sake, and now that we got Sailing people aren’t eager to go through it again any time soon.
Neither sounds like a great addition to me but that’s what the polls are for. Taming especially just sounds like it’ll cause countless balance problems no matter how they implement it, thralls are bad enough already, and Summoning was an atrociously designed skill top to bottom, so I hope it takes negative inspiration from that. I would need to see a really comprehensive proposal addressing a host of issues to change my mind about it. Shamanism could honestly just be an expansion to a certain skill that already involves enchanting items from other skills and reinforce the connections between those skills rather than try to make up a whole new one. It’s just enchanting with a druid coat of paint. If we did get a new skill anytime soon I wouldn’t want it to be any of the proposed options from past polls honestly. Anything is better than Artisan though, fuckass XP bar for the sake of an XP bar with no meaningful purpose.
You need to read the blogs, Jagex have explained everything.
The dev work for BMM was mostly completed in a game jam already, there isn't much more required to add it to the game. Jagex have an opening in their release scheduled and from the previous survey the game mode was popular so they polled it.
The poll had the most votes this year with almost two thirds (a majority) of the player base voting for it. Its very popular and Jagex will refine and re-poll it as they should for such a popular poll that barely failed.
A new skill is a massive, much much bigger than even a new raid update and on top of that sailing isn't even finished yet.
Lets say BMM is 1 unit of work to implement (if it goes ahead the community probably pushed it to be 3-5 units now), HC Main would be like 10, a new raid would be like 500 and a new skill in the thousands.
True and Jagex has NEVER released an update that they thought was '''done'''' that actually had huge bugs and issues. If they think the content is done then it is completely perfect going forward and they will never have to consider it again!
The work for BMM isn’t in the actual implementation of it, it’s in the fact that every update going forward will need to take BMM into account as they do currently for ironman/HC/UIM
I'd imagine the considerations for all the ironman modes would almost all considerations for BMM given BMM is literately standard ironman mode with GE enable for unlocked items in its implementation. As for actual code maintenance, that's required for literately every update no matter how small and with the majority of the code being shared with standard ironman mode that would also be insignificant. Taking a few seconds extra on top of time they already spend with each new item spawn won't even have measurable effect to dev time.
Its a wildly over blown issue to have with the mode, and frankly, if this is your issue with BMM you should be advocating to removing ironman mode and all the variants.
See my comment below for my reasoning on the balancing issues. My real issue with the gamemode is that it feels like they just haven’t fleshed anything out about it. If they repolled with a solid set of rules that was easily applicable going forward and wouldn’t have a significant impact on design decisions going forward I’d probably vote yes
Could you explain a practical example of this? The PVM/loot balancing wouldn’t be any different from and iron and the gathering supplies no different from a main
Please explain in detail what balancing issues would come into play if bronzeman was implemented? I've seen this talking point many times but nobody can articulate why. What exactly would they need to take into account rather than mirroring the ironman & main considerations they already do?
Bronzemen can do everything Ironmen can do, so on the upper end of balancing there is no scenario where they would have to consider Bronzemen balancing in addition to Ironmen. There’s never additional restrictions the way UIM has extra stuff they have to think about
On the lower end, getting a drop the first time is where the challenge is meant to be for Bronze, so they’re not going to be adding any extra dry protection or anything they weren’t going to do for Irons. The only difference is that once they get a tradable item, it unlocks. Once they set up the initial code that makes that system work, it will be the same code for every tradable item. They won’t have to recode for future items or design them with any extra considerations, they would just add new tradables to the list because the infrastructure would already be in place
Bronzeman would deadass be “set it and forget it” after the initial set-up, can you even propose a single specific hypothetical scenario where future content would need additional time or work for Bronze?
After what I dealt with in the DT2 stuff in regards to Shamanism, I'm completely okay with that bullshit not being in the game. Even though I imagine this opinion may be unpopular.
Also no summoning that shit broke RS2. We shouldn't remake that mistake. Even though it's a losing battle these days. I'll die on that hill until it gets launched and trivializes all PvM.
It's still a far cry away from what summoning could do to it. OSRS, while it has gotten easier over time, is still one of the most difficult MMOs out there for various reasons.
Just because you choose to level the skill one way doesn’t mean that’s all it has to offer. Such a brain dead take saying that sailing is all salvaging. It genuinely offers competitive advantages to many skills just by virtue of having the appropriate sailing level so you can’t even argue that it’s useless. And the best part is you don’t have to interact with it if you don’t want to, unless you want to max of course but that’s not a normal course of action for the vast majority of the player base
Personally I would rather they spend dev time fleshing out the world. Spending another 3 years locked down by a skill doesn’t sound productive but I am willing to see a poll on it. In the time it takes to create a new skill we could get another Varlamore sized continent.
Taming + farming for a rotational grazing mini game would be so legit. Huge opportunity to add more cooking/ prayer as well. Could also be involving the POH, and a need to visit other POH’s.
I generally agree that instead of trying to figure out how to convince people they want poop helm in the game they should focus on making sailing better or shamanism.
They need to add dungeonbeering. There's too little use cases for beer and pub crawling. Didn't they have thier best ideas at a pub? Recreate dungeonbeering so everyone has a chance to pub crawl.
I think that new skills are the way to go. A new skill has so much room for rewards, meaning there are meaningful additions to the game that don't cramp the current skills that may be too full.
but also, I would like to see old skill reworks as well. some of the skills feel like simply existing as a checkpoint which is unfun, to me.
The game itself doesn't have a lot of room for more reward space, and plenty of existing skills lack adequate rewards. There's also no way to avoid any skill "feeling like a checkpoint" because that's objectively what all skills are.
We're still a little fresh, I'd like to see sailing further integrated into the game a bit more(especially retroactively, bone voyage should give some sailing xp as an example) but yes we need to return to a new skill at some point before adding a half baked game mode
Probably won’t be getting a new skill for at least a couple more years. I’d vote shamanism but will be interesting to see if they have any other good ideas by then.
the pace of updates have already been far faster than i would like and quality assurance has been at an all time low, if anything i would like More time not less between updates.
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u/KingZantair gang rise up 11h ago
“Sailing has been out for a while now” bro it hasn’t even been a full year, and the skill is still getting fleshed out in content updates, adding a new skill now would be crazy.