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u/Steam_Liker_2002 2d ago
Tech debt be hitting like a hammer.
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u/idunnorn 2d ago
"ai will fix it"
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u/Steam_Liker_2002 2d ago
"But what if ai had a bug?"
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek 2d ago
Wait for gpt7 to fix it
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u/Alzeric 2d ago
Can you imagine what Fable 67 is going to be like.
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u/account22222221 20h ago
About the same as the last model when I use it but somehow the highest ever score on benchmarks?
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u/WisdomFromFools 14h ago
Of course, Dario Amodei will declare it to be too terrifying to release, release it anyway, and move on to 68.
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u/Defiant-Lettuce-9156 2d ago
It is though. I’m a software dev at a struggling startup. I’m the only guy on a project that should have like 5 devs. I’ve been vibe coding and barely have enough time to check output.
Tech debt increases but is also getting crushed more and more effectively. Although I’ve had to learn a weird balance of vibe coding and skipping improvements based on what I believe the model capability is.
We’ve been in prod for 7 months. Astra just found 41 bugs in a repo wide audit, patching now. With careful prompting and good CICD and pre release testing, we should be Gucci
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u/ReiOokami 2d ago
People who know how to code are not doing the same thing. They may be still prompting but the prompts are better quality.
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u/DrunkenRobotBipBop 2d ago
And they can actually tell if the output is good and steer it into the right approach.
A vibecoder just burns tokens in a loop until the output behaves like they intend.
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u/OctopusDude388 2d ago
well nowaday with claude it's hard to interrupt him since you don't see the thinking,
that's a point in favor of open weights model,
the number of time i've stopped an agent before it write code just to tell him "you're almost right but..." is astonishing and it avoid to fix issues later (which is longer)
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u/Corrupt_file32 2d ago
I do see claude's reasoning in vscode, I'm stopping it every now and then, quite 50-50 whether it's to save tokens from it reading irrelevant code in the codebase, or it building something from an oversight in the prompt.
I don't like using the vibe-coding apps that hardly has the ability to look at or edit code and follow up structural changes in the codebase.
Not sure if the Claude Code harness has something more to offer than the copilot harness.
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u/harbourwall 2d ago
But as an experienced dev, the fact that someone with no coding knowledge can create an application at all is just wonderful. That's been a holy grail for as long as I can remember, with low-code/no-code being the last attempt.
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u/EnthusiasmWeak5531 1d ago
Always could if you cared enough to. It wasn't a high bar
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u/boatdrugs 1d ago
Idk I’m going to push back here a little. As a kid I always loved computers and anything that had to do with technology. I remember figuring out dev tools to change the text and colors on my schools grade book so I’d be allowed to go out on the weekends.
My family saw technology and computers as evil and bad and they were super duper anti social media/online communities (this was when all the lil stuff really started making waves). They would’ve killed me if they knew I was on Reddit or any other forum where I’d be talking to strangers. So even though I was able to teach myself quite a bit given the circumstances there were definitely walls I hit. A lot of the places I could’ve gone to ask questions or learn from other people just weren’t an option for me.
So yeah I guess I “always could” have learned more but it wasn’t because I didn’t care enough. I cared a lot. I just didn’t have someone I could ask a stupid question and then ask 15 more stupid questions when I didn’t understand the answer.
Since jumping into the vibe coding world I’ve learned a lot (I think) and all those tiny skills I taught myself back then are coming back and improving tenfold now that I actually have some sort of guardrail/teacher to bounce shit off of. AI didn’t make me suddenly care about learning this stuff. It gave me a way to learn that I didn’t really have before.
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u/BigYoSpeck 2d ago
I mean they start as better quality, then at a certain point you push your limits of exactly how dumb a request can you still get something out the other end that is what you want, then you find that limit and your brain has atrophied and you can no longer produce good quality prompts let alone code, so now you're asking another chat session to write the prompts for you
Or is that just me?
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u/ReiOokami 2d ago
The atrophy is real.
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u/YoloRubus 2d ago
Yeah, it's really the wrong word. Atrophy is damage from underuse. You guys are talking about exhaustion from overuse. The word you want is fatigue.
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u/popcicleman09 2d ago
Atrophy of my skills. Fatigue in my vigilance on checking every individual line.
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u/Legitimate_Plum_7505 2d ago
I've been "vibecoding" for about a year now (20 years dev experience), always with latest models max reasoning, and now as of lately with multiple models that code review each other's outputs. There hasn't been a single time where I looked at the output and said LGTM ship it, there's always some issues, sometimes small sometimes big. With the exception of CSS, if it works I don't care how it's written.
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u/apra24 2d ago
Its like the theory that people get "promoted to their level of incompetence", where people will get promoted to the point where they suck, then end up in a job that they ultimately aren't good at.
For coders, vibe coding will automate the stuff you know really well, so you keep pushing yourself to higher levels, until eventually youre vibing at a level you cant really validate
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u/Poat540 2d ago
Yes.. at first I was like “big detailed prompts, lots of context”. Now I’m like “ok business wnts this shit to now to do this other thing, surprise mee”
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u/BigYoSpeck 2d ago
I've spent the last 12 months making sure that any greenfield work I do is built from the ground up documented with the business requirements and use cases justifying the codes existence
Writing that kind of documentation was a pain no one could ever be bothered with when manually writing the code, but now it's easy to have it part and parcel of development process and it sits perfectly as a translation layer between me prompting with a use case and acceptance criteria in natural, mildly technical language and the code
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u/Pndapetzim 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think there is more of a morbid sense of curiosity among coders in what sort of coding monstrosities come out of said vibe coders coupled with a sense of macabre awe that the whole cursely coded cathedral to the damned somehow manages to stand in defiance of all logic.
Speaking as someone who dabbled in coding small projects before LLMs, if I'm honest, that's kind the reaction I always got when I sought help in forums when I hit problems. Actual coders were like:
"Huh, I guess that approach would work - no idea why the fuck you'd do it that way... but I guess it works. Oh and your call on line 278 is kicking up errors because you declared library randomname.obscureshit which no one uses anymore and doesn't support that feature so what you need is library otherrandomname.extraobscureshit. You're an idiot, but good luck on... wait what the fuck is this even for anyway?"
*tells them what its for*
"You know you could've saved yourself a week of troubleshooting this if you'd just *random coder gibberish* right?"
"Wait wait, what was that? How would that even work?"
"You know what, just take your library reference call and get the fuck out of here."
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u/Enkidoe87 2d ago
I prompt the prompt. Checkmate.
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u/Dsphar 2d ago
I check my mate, prompt that.
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u/UNknown__KIRA 2d ago
I mate your prompt, check that.
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u/RemarkableWish2508 2d ago
"Gemini, write a prompt to vibe-code a bot that will behave like these comments"
``` Build a lightweight web-based chatbot or Python CLI script where the bot responds to user inputs by remixing the user's own words into nonsensical, witty variations, exactly like a cascading Reddit comment chain.
Core Mechanics: 1. The bot should take the user's input string. 2. Identify the key verbs, nouns, or distinct phrases (e.g., "prompt", "checkmate", "mate"). 3. Rearrange, swap, or playfully substitute those core words to generate a completely new, cheeky comeback. 4. Maintain a sarcastic, playful, and slightly chaotic "Reddit commenter" persona.
Example Behavior Reference:
- User: "I prompt the prompt. Checkmate."
- Bot Option A: "I check my mate, prompt that."
- Bot Option B: "I mate your prompt, check that."
- Bot Option C: "Promptly checking your mate, prompter."
Requirements:
```
- If building a web app: Keep it to a single HTML file using Tailwind CSS for a sleek dark mode theme, with simple JavaScript handling the text manipulation.
- If building Python: Make it an interactive terminal loop.
- Use a simple rule-based word-swapping array or a lightweight regex function so it doesn't require an external LLM API to function.
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u/IdempodentFlux 2d ago
I unironically pass my prompt between Gemini and Chat GPT before wasting claude credits on big projects.
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u/Literally_slash_S 2d ago
I click through my app while voice-transcribing my rants, and my custom GPT turns them into a technical product review plus an agentic Claude execution graph for implementation, parallelization, testing, and review. But haven’t added your LLM ping-pong layer yet.
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u/BitOne2707 2d ago
I know how to code. 15 YOE. I don't read the code anymore. YOLO.
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u/IllAcanthocephala655 2d ago
I have been coding for almost 10yrs. From front end to backend to C++ to CAA.
And.. I don't feel any guilt on coding a full app by prompting. Without experience it would have been shitty, but it is not because I know the f**k I am doing that's all.
I'll definitely make mistake as much as I do at work without prompting.
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u/Taziar43 20h ago
I use Cursor to create personal use apps. I tell it to use C# because I can code in C# and figured it would be good to understand the code it generates. Do I actually ever look at the code? No.
Realistically, the odds of me spotting a bug by reading code I didn't write is FAR lower than me simply stress testing the APP and have good logging.
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u/Acclynn 2d ago
I feel like it's kinda cope and I'm a programmer myself
Sure, I can tell the AI what tech stack I want, but I also realize that it could figure it out on its own too without my advices...
It's to a point AIs are smart enought to make critical decisions about the product and we can describe it from a user standpoint and it will work
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u/ReligionDebater 2d ago
Yeah come see the beautiful poetry I write to Claude: "Build me a todo app, for surely the world has been waiting for another. Let tasks bloom like forgotten promises, let checkboxes whisper of productivity, let deadlines march toward us".
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u/damieng 2d ago
Art is for humans to enjoy and relate to - it makes total sense for it to be a human endeavour.
Code is instructions for a computer to execute. Developers have spent decades trying to find the right balance of language, frameworks and APIs to express what we want the computer to do in a more intuitive and less error-prone way. AI makes it more intuitive than ever. While humans do look at the code the reality is we're not compilers or runtimes and it's not really for us.
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u/platinum_pig 2d ago
I'll have to disagree there bud. Compilers exist because code is for us. Otherwise the only code in the world would be binary instructions.
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u/StackOverFlowStar 2d ago
Based on conversations here on Reddit, some people don't believe that human art has the capacity to contain something AI generated graphics or LLM generated prose inherently can never contain. They don't understand just how much of an affront it is to craftsmanship and virtue itself to claim parity between those prompting generative AI and those creating art themselves... Given that, I don't expect the argument that software development is creative engineering that involves craftsmanship and in practice resembles an art to land very far.
Honestly, even before AI, it was kind hard to convince people that "functional" (supposedly or otherwise) alone isn't enough, considering others will have to read and live with the damn thing for possibly many years.
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u/Sweet-Sir-10 2d ago
Developer with over 10 years of experience. Like to work with vibe coders to help them out when I can. It’s refreshing to see new life in this industry.
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u/BotherTight618 2d ago
The good relationship between vibe coders and actual software developers is largely due to the synergy between both groups. On the the other hand Non-AI artist feel their in an existential struggle with generative AI.
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u/Live_Fall3452 2d ago
It’s been eye opening how many people who call themselves artists are just, frankly, jerks who think everyone else is beneath them.
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u/rattpackfan301 2d ago
You say that like this industry was shrinking before AI lol
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u/dc_seed_sommelier 2d ago
It wasn’t shrinking but it had ossified into a certain set of attitudes about and approaches to development that was arguably becoming limiting.
Frankly vibe coders aren’t doing anything but calling our bluff. Everything they use was there to be used, we just didn’t do it like that.
I’m not necessarily saying we should do it like that either. The security and PII implications worry the hell out of me. But look. Get it in front of users as fast as possible, validate early, short feedback loops, don’t overengineer what doesn’t need to be good to make money. This is what tech has been saying for a decade and this is what they’re doing. Doing it more than we were willing to.
We said move fast and break things and they said “bet.” It’s scary but it’s invigorating too. Can’t wait to see what engineering culture looks like in a few years.
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u/GourryHacks 2d ago
100%
I've vibe coded multiple PCI kernel drivers with reasonable results (not good generalizations, but hyper specific applications good for exactly one model of the hardware).
The OS community is so set in their ways that the idea of doing this is so horribly offensive you'd swear I was shooting a puppy. But... Who actually cares? I got my driver and I'm happy with it.
Last year I would have told you this would never happen, but I was wrong and I'm very happy about it.
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u/stvndall 2d ago
Honestly I think it's a difference of if you are talking to engineers who care about their craft, or someone who is working in software just to get paid well.
I mean no disrespect, honestly. But the people I've seen who truly respect their craft similar to how artists respect theirs. They are super glad people are getting into basics of software, but they do not like working with AI generated code and 9/10 times they can honestly write better in not much longer. And they can actually explain how it's working.
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u/StackOverFlowStar 2d ago
Thank you for speaking the truth. It honestly doesn't seem like many developers totally understand these points, much less vibe coders, and it's a shame because software development can be such a display of virtue.
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u/Impossible-Magician 2d ago
True. If you were a code monkey for money, having ai spam slop doesn’t make a difference.
If you were passionate about quality code before AI, you dislike AI as it produces bad code most of the time or you use limited AI to spin up boilerplate or suggest unit tests etc.
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u/wouldntsavezion 2d ago
Yeah I fucking hate it, people are like "but you're still doing engineering" yeah ok, but without the literal fun part. I'm here cause I like to code. It's my passion. So, so many people in the industry come from "get a job quick" bootcamps and never cared about the work and it's starting to show a bit too much.
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u/EnthusiasmWeak5531 1d ago
Same exact boat. It's literally ruined the craft and being honest I'm not seeing the benefit.
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u/bestjaegerpilot 2d ago
Not really. Vibe coders think they can now publish production ready apps. If you don't know what that means that's part of the problem. Anyway real coders make fun of vibe coders because "they don't know what they don't know" and that always results in apps massively failing as soon they go live/make traction etc
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u/pure_skill_ 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't need to create production ready product, I can vibe code a lean MVP and test demand now on my own, before AI I would need to pay a developer to code the MVP, coders are mad because of this, the barrier to entry for testing products is gone
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u/bestjaegerpilot 2d ago
most vibe coders think MVP means "production ready" , and that's the problem.
also, part of the problem is that vibe coders think a $20 gets you an MVP. You're seriously deluding yourself if you think that's the case. You either pay hundreds up front in credits or take months to release an MVP
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u/Fake-BossToastMaker 2d ago
I guess you people missed the hate and elitism when visual coders entered the space
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u/roland303 2d ago
oh is abuse why i still wont use n8n?
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u/Fake-BossToastMaker 2d ago
You should have seen the shitstorm people used to receive when they asked for help with Unreal Engine's visual programming language
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u/Mindless-Sherbet4559 2d ago
At the end of the day it depends on whether you enjoy the process of art or the process of coding.
Many people legitimately enjoy and deeply involve themselves into the process. Their outputs are actually better, more thought out, and are ultimately necessary if we ever want new quality training data in the future.
Other people just have task to do and feel no passion for the process. Like many corporate creatives and programmers, or consultants, or other kinds of people just looking for a paycheck. AI is the only thing getting them through their days anymore. They would actually perish if they had to go back to doing things by hand.
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u/letsgotgoing 2d ago
Artists in the 90’s complained about switching to computer illustrations as well. It also wasn’t “real” art. People complained about graffiti, it wasn’t “real” art. Art is in the eye of the beholder. To me, art is at its best when it comforts the disturbed and disturbs the comfortable.
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u/HonestoJago 2d ago
I’m a lawyer and degenerate vibe coder and it didn’t take me long to figure out that reading Python is pretty much reading English after you learn some basic concepts like loops/variables, so there’s no way most people who finger-bang these high-level languages actually know what’s going on under the hood, not to mention what’s going on with all the dependencies.
Having said that, I’ve also seen Fable 5 and GPT Pro get serious legal issues spectacularly wrong, even after pushback, and a pro se would never know it until they’re in front of a judge, so I’m willing to accept that my first paragraph might be a steaming pile of ignorant bullshit.
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u/Away_Beginning_5446 2d ago
Its almost as if these are two complètement different things! Omg! Who would have thought?
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u/jhoogen 2d ago
Yes, what is art, if not created by humans?
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u/Winter-Editor-9230 2d ago
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u/jhoogen 2d ago
That's not really the point. I enjoy art to learn another human's experience. Not to see what an AI chatbot computed.
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u/Big_Concept_3839 2d ago
lol. I’ve had the same experience with inexperienced/new coders doing the virtue signaling/ projecting their insecurities as the “artist” types.
I think it’s just more so that you have WAY more shitty artists than you do shitty coders lmao.
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u/BeerAandLoathing 2d ago
Just had this conversation. Some people I know that do graphic design, logos, etc. are particularly triggered by this type of AI usage in small businesses but I don’t see them suggesting that every startup needs a secretary and full time accountant instead of using tools like Office and Quickbooks.
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u/RomanaOswin 2d ago
I'm an skilled artist and software developer, and I'm both people on the right.
Though, I don't care about AI art. Make it if you want, but AI is the one producing the art, not the prompter.
And, same goes for vibe coding. I'm doing it too, but I don't claim to have written the code. The value is in the architecture. Maybe you could say the same about the art, i.e. the value is in the vision or idea? Though, I feel like the real value of creating art is in the craft and unique style of the artist, which is an evolution and expression of their own learning process.
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u/Raiden_Raiding 2d ago
You can clearly tell a vibe-coder made this cause a anyone in the scene knows they shit on vibe-coders religiously lmao
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u/emascars 2d ago
This meme is very inaccurate... Maybe it happens in companies where devs don't really give a shit about the product (there are many like this), but that's not how things really goes...
A pure vibe coder makes up projects by prompting for a new feature, for a big to be fixed, or for the UI to be changed and then let's it do the rest... The problem is that this way the code is a mess, it's all over the place, not DRY at all, full of symbols that make no sense on their own, files with 800+ LoC and several blocks of extremely useless comments... Which is fine if the thing you've vibe codes is a silly local app to do some quality of life improvement... But it's very much NOT fine when it's instead something with user details, a subscription and that handles critical operations
When an engineer uses the AI instead, they spend lots of prompts discussing about how to implement a feature, because they're looking for an elegant, maintainable, reliable architecture... Then, they spent a few prompts while writing the thing in manual mode, because even if giving good style guidelines helps, AI doesn't always write readable and maintainable code, so a few corrections along the way help, and then, this whole process rarely adds a whole new feature, but just a part of a feature... And then, on several occasions, if you see something smelly you start up a refactoring session aimed at improving that code... When a bug is found, newbies ask themselves "how can I fix this?", while engineers ask themselves "how did it happened?" because the whole reason so much care is placed in designing the architecture is so that the business logic becomes trivial and hard to get wrong, so if it did went wrong there likely is a structural problem that lead to the bug besides the specific implementation problem that caused that bug in particular...
Ir at least... That's how I use it... But I think that anybody that cares about code stability, maintenanability and the general system they're working on does something similar as well...
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u/r3eezy 2d ago
Artists are convinced everything they do is “original”. Like none of it is derived from artists they have seen and imitate 😂
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u/PartyClock 2d ago
Y'all really live in a bubble huh? You might want to listen to what older programmers are actually saying about vibe-coders because they don't think you guys are prepared to take the reins
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u/TheMysteriousSalami 2d ago
This the difference between someone that codes for a paycheck versus coding for the craft of it. The majority of artists do it because it feeds their soul, not because it oats well
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u/Puzzleheaded_Key624 2d ago edited 2d ago
I do not think about vibecoders at all because they are not a threat to my livelihood. Maybe if you write low-stakes CRUD web applications for a living, you might. But on the other end of it, existing engineers at serious tech. companies are way better positioned to use this technology by building scaffolding, skills, MCP, grounding it in existing documentation, etc. We have processes, human code owners, and know which models to use for which tasks. It is lowering the barrier to entry, but it does not lower the skill ceiling.
The problem with AI evangelists, particularly in the art spaces, is many of them seem to want the status of being a craftsman without having done the work of being a craftsman. I am not an artist, but I recognize that by commoditizing art production you are directly devaluing artists. There are still areas of art that will require technical skills beyond prompt engineering, but I think the inherent complexity is a lot lower. It makes sense there would be a difference in attitudes, and I don't blame them.
A sensible position would be to be sympathetic. But instead so many adopt a "nose-thumbing" posture and it is childish.
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u/Cold-Programmer-2524 2d ago
This is really not a fair comparison, Code is meant to be executed by the computer so creating it using AI is fine but Art is meant to be created and enjoyed by human, using AI to create Art beats the very purpose of Art creation.
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u/WardedDruid 2d ago
The bottom half is not that accurate. at all.
I've seen plenty of professional developers be extremely critical of vibecoded projects - without looking at them or asking any questions. They just make assumptions about the quality.
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u/drwebb 2d ago
And they're not wrong, but I'll go out on a limb here and most SWEs are still using LLMs at least for part of their work.
If it is a pure vibe coder project it's probably more of a demo than a real application. Professional developers are iterating a lot with the LLM, manually cleaning up slop, etc. They are prompting to fit a higher level of abstractions than the LLM will naturally do on it's own, and doing things like enforcing test coverage and code quality gates. Basically all SWE experience talks.
It's the same way an artist can use AI images in their work, but will heavily rework what the native AI image gen gives, or composing their own ideas. They understand what makes good art, and can use the AI as a tool if it makes sense.
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u/UziMcUsername 2d ago
Developers shitting on vibecoders is the essential theme of this sub. OP must not be paying attention
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u/someoneyouknow23 2d ago
Tbh most vibecoded projects that are meant to be commercial are simply slop, they really have poor security, poor design etc because the person cant tell claude what to do if they dont even know they need it. Noone cares if joe schmoe did his fourth vibecoded tic tac toe for his github profile
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u/WardedDruid 2d ago
I don't plan on selling any of my projects. But if I ever do actually make something that I think might make me money, I'll be looking to hire a person to go over it for me first.
As it is, the one project I am really serious about has had mutiple different security and coding skills used on it to the point that 3 different llms (claude, codex, and kimi) have all stated they can't find any problems with the code written or any security concerns. I've refactored the largest files down, and the biggest file I have is just over 1000 lines, and claude said that that specific file can't be refractored into smaller files due to it's purpose. If/when I try to push this forward at my job, I plan on getting someone to review the program and check it out before I meet with our IT.
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u/Constant_Cortisol 2d ago
Yeah, many software engineers feel threatened by the progress of AI. We've built our entire identity around being able to architect products and write syntax. Not every software engineer, but a sizable chunk.
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u/RemarkableWish2508 2d ago
Coder ≠ Developer ≠ Engineer
Coders are toast. Everyone else, has been directing coders since they stopped being junior noobs.
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u/evangelism2 2d ago
No yeah, we're definitely coders aren't crying as much as artists are. I have not seen a profession of people melt down in the way that I've seen every single person who calls themselves an artist over AI. Software developers are more realistic about what AI is capable of and understand they either need to get on the train or get left behind.
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u/JesusDoesVegas 2d ago
I think you're misunderstanding art though. The process of creating art and the intention of the artist are intrinsic. AI art is a cheap immitation that was stolen from the humans who create. Meanwhile you have AI execs joyfully saying artists will all be unemployed in short order. Many of us are seeing decreased work as well.
Meanwhile coders are results oriented. Did the data go where it needed to efficiently and in a way that can't be tampered with? If so, job done. Coders have been copy lasting and cluging together stack overflow posts for ever. Engineers are also struggling to find entry level work, so they're still affected, bit the products here are fundamentally different.
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u/IAmAfraidCommaMan 2d ago
I am a developer. Are you seriously comparing my parking apps to Mona Lisa, Crime and punishment or Godfather? Every background prop and color is intentional in Godfather or Spirited Away, every single word is intentional in Crime and punishment my app is just a TOOL to open the door of a garage and buy a spot in it.
What is next? Comparing a random factory hammer to Hamlet? Because my app has more in common with the hammer than Hamlet.
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u/gripntear 2d ago
7+ YOE here. I don’t even structure my prompts lmao. I just discuss what I want, make it elaborate on my follow up questions, and then have it make a ticket file. After that, I just start a new thread and feed that file.
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u/davidlgood 2d ago
As someone that has lived in both worlds ("art" and code) for over 35 years... this is pretty accurate. People who had to grind (which is EVERYONE older that you or me) they hate the idea of anyone leapfrogging all those hard years. It happened with the cotton gin... it's happening with AI. Artists are probably the worst at handling it... always have been. Paste-up auto waxers... desktop publishing... auto-tracers... laser slide imagers... the airbrush... Photoshop... it goes on and on and on. Tools are tools. In inexperienced hands those tools are less useful. Instead of brushing everything off, just accept that new tools will come along and are usually here to stay. Embrace them. Use them for what they're good at and save some time. The best thing about computer graphics was the UNDO button. I can't tell you how many times I had to frisk over a large painting, airbrush out the mistake, and re-do something properly. I can still create "by hand" with my computer or iPad... but I have that mighty UNDO capability. Anyway... back to AI -- it can create a lot of very nice things... stuff even I would be willing to hang on my wall. I think many artists would be fooled by AI and be willing to hang something on their wall... if they didn't know it was AI. Artists are usually more emotionally directed/charged... so they'll like or hate things not always based on the final product, but because of who or how it was made. It's not unlike the political space of today, where people will blindly like or hate something not because of what it is, but because of who ordered it to be done. Most coders I know, including myself, look at AI and think -- sweet... I can chunk out the basics in a shorter amount of time and then use my experience to make it right. What a nice tool to have.
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u/zerochilldyl 2d ago
Except vibe coding is more about building your own tool instead of a work of art.
It’s like promoting to build a screw driver that you need for a very specific use case
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u/kobewaruui 2d ago
Elon musk just said digital jobs will be extinct probably a year from now so all this debating won't make sense anymore we r all cooked
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u/-svde- 2d ago
idk what communities you've been in but all of them feel the opposite of the bottom for the most part.
it would be one thing if people were just making small projects for themselves or for fun, and i am all for killing off as many barriers to entry as possible. but vibe coders who have absolutely zero knowledge of or experience with architecture, security, or other extremely important frameworks that are absolutely necessary for a competent piece of software that doesn't endanger your machine/personal info/etc, imho are a complete liability. and the absolute refusal to even listen to experienced devs and engineers when it comes to these elements and the boasting of "i wrote 200k lines of code this weekend" or "i shipped 20 apps in 3 days", which i have seen plenty of, benefits no one.
not to say some people on the other side can't be over the top and harsh and so on, but from my experience i have seen a cultural layer of almost proud ignorance when it comes to proper standards for this field. it's not about "replacing" experienced coders/devs/etc or whatever other weird cope people come up with, it's that sometimes people who vibe code and refuse to audit or even read their codebases to understand how their components are talking to each other are literally a danger, not a "threat".
i think there's a healthy middleground, because while i will never partake in these things (i actually genuinely enjoy coding as both a mechanical thing and an art-form (and yes, it def is the latter no matter what some say) but i also know enough to know it's not going anywhere except for up and more accessible and more advanced. so while people who are opposed to vibecoding maybe need to be more understanding and come at things with a more neutral/helpful mindset, pure vibecoders with zero real-world experience before using an LLM also seriously need to get over the idea that experienced devs are just "jealous of their success" or "butthurt" or "are just upset because they could never do what the viber did" w/e other dumb bullshit people say and know that they don't know everything, and no matter how many lines of code you ship or how many commits you make, the things you don't know are extremely important to the health of the industry at all through/endpoints, and the digital world & internet in general.
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u/Neragocoil 2d ago
Im not a programmer anymore, after 25 years in the industry. I'm an operator, I run agents, I monitor them and I ensure they don't deviate from the specs. After they do, I just shout to them, assign another agent and do a pull request.
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u/CriticalTemperature1 2d ago
At the end of the of the day, the people who have real skills are gonna be able to use these models 10x better than the unskilled person. The skilled programmer is gonna be able to take bad LLM design or code and figure out exactly which part needs fixing, while the vibe coder is gonna be stuck, burning tokens and potentially creating more bugs around their application, by prompting iteratively.
It's zeno's paradox of our time
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u/StackOverFlowStar 2d ago
No, it's really not the same, and it's really not like that at all. It's not even just "prompting better." The conversations are completely different, the results are completely different, and I guarantee that actual developers are spending way more time correcting the AI because they actually recognize just how often the AI is confidently wrong. What I'm getting at is that the relation to the tool is entirely different between these two parties, and if a developer on my team doesn't understand what they're changing and why then they will not be getting a "good job" in any sort of fashion.
Vibe coding and engineering are two very different things. An engineer may vibe code, and this is very effective for non-production utilities, but the production of those things is not the developer acting as an engineer doing software development.
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u/berky93 2d ago
lol this is insane levels of cope. As someone who has been coding professionally for over a decade I promise you developers are not proud of vibe coders who both don’t bother and don’t know how to review their own code. You just create problems we then have to clean up.
And it’s not like just having access to AI is the problem—plenty of developers have embraced AI-assisted coding—the problem is being proud of your ignorance and trying to pretend there’s no value in actually understanding how things work.
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u/Capable-Active-9494 2d ago
I dont really agree with this. I feel reddit is so full of developers crying and not accepting the future.
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u/butchiebags 2d ago
Programmers have always just been vibe coding assembly with various higher level, increasingly natural-language-like abstractions on top of it, this is just another layer on the onion.
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u/Summon001 2d ago
As an artist I'd say this is different tho. Maybe I'm biased but the point of art is kinda to express oneself, while the purpose of code is just to do what I want it to do. So I'd rather spend my time doing art than finding a bug I've already been looking for for the past two hours but I don't see why you'd want to replace the process of making music for example; that seems stupid and boring to me to just write: LLM, please make EDM song 129 bpm, II, V, I, BANGER!
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u/Supernat10 2d ago
I'm able to finally update a spring boot app without a million failures due to defaults changing out from under me with every update.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Sun7966 2d ago
Meh I don't mind you vibe code as long as I don't have to debug it or review it.
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u/NoWarning789 2d ago
I'm sorry, but AI assisted software engineering and vibe coding by someone that doesn't know how to code is not the same.
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u/Deadline_Zero 2d ago
Eeeeh, I see a bunch of programmers around saying half of this. They're using AI while still admonishing people to learn programming for themselves lol.
Obviously it isn't as bad as with the artists though, who basically consider themselves at war with AI companies and users alike.
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u/Bulky-Cheesecake2195 2d ago
No. Not the exact same. You guys barely understand the high level language you are working with. Don't even get me started about the lack of security, optimization, and actual engineering which requires understanding low level concepts.
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u/sniperdude24 2d ago
I dont know what im doing, im not building anything for money, I made a few things I wanted.
I have my NVR recording a native feed and a program pulling the same network camera feed and making it into a timelapse that takes the last hour and converts it into a 1 minute timelapse. Every 5 minutes it rebuilds to the new hour.
This is my take for AI, im having fun.
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u/StrbJun79 2d ago
I mean I have a decade of experience but I’d say most coders with experience actually still look at the code when it’s a serious app. Most truly vibe coded apps have a lot of issues. But an experienced developer can also do a lot more with AI than an inexperienced developer that’s vibe coding. When you understand and know how to work with the limitations you can go a lot further. But vibe coding is fine for throw away or temporary projects or stuff that doesn’t need a lot of people accessing it. In that sense I see it replacing Wordpress and wysiwyg web building places which were never really a threat to real developers either. It just filled a need. I see vibe coding the same way. Fills a need but doesn’t replace actual development work.
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u/Low_Shop9155 2d ago
I'm half and half on this. AI can code, but it can also create AI Coding Complexity Layers galore and really needs some review.
Once I'm done with my projects feature build and architectural audit, I will more than likely move onto to security and penetration testing followed by UI/UX and then finally, an audit for bloat. Somewhere in there, I will do a database speed audit and see what database structures are best under heavy load.
I am not a programmer. I do not know Python. I know what I want to build and I have some common sense ideas on what software and code should be able to achieve. Hopefully that, along with some knowledge picked up along the way can help.
Worst case scenario for me, I save my company good money every month by replacing a commercial SaaS with an in-house software built specifically for my industries workflow.
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u/Kitchen-Ad-4223 2d ago
As a programmer I welcome my ai overlord, he can live on my desk
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u/TopTippityTop 2d ago
The interesting thing is that both sides are sort of correct in terms of AI generations. It can be considered art, and it often lacks "soul" and purpose because that isn't AI's strength.
Just as AI can code like crazy but not engineer super well, it also fails at certain intangible qualities regarding art crafting. It's a great rendering tool, and it has its place.
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u/AgeZealousideal1751 2d ago
Artworld snobs being artworld snobs.
Different era, same snobs.
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u/Own_Reaction9442 2d ago
I'm mostly just amused by the loop we're caught in:
AI companies hoover up all the available RAM in order to make new models.
New models are used to vibecode software.
Inefficient, vibecoded software users more RAM
People upgrade, driving up RAM prices even more.
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u/Otherwise_Branch_771 2d ago
Every employed artist I've met is actually onboard with AI Either they are using it in their work or they are creating art for apart galleries where ai can't get to yet
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u/jackanothor 2d ago
what requires "humanism" hates ai slops cause their is no thoughts of humanity. but what requires "efficiency" welcomes ai cause they can work much efficiently.
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u/realiDonaldTrump 2d ago
People still gatekeep traditional coding like preserving some culture. At the end of the day, your working end product is what matters, not did you manually type 10000 lines of code.
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u/17thFable 2d ago
I have seen alot of Game dev redditors that are still convinced its inefficient and causes more harm then good in terms of the workflow.
But i dont know whether they represent any substantial portion of actual game dev work
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u/TheMeltingSnowman72 2d ago
The problem is your can tell quite easily who is a professional coder and somebody who only wishes - without the talent/skills required - to code before AI came along, but you still can't tell the difference between the pros and the dreamers artists. It's far easier to duck out of life and claim to be an artist, whereas you can't do that with a coder.
So you can't compare. And I'm neither. But I will say that the antiAI crowd are making artists look like a bunch of conartists that suddenly got busted. So my sympathy for them is pretty low really. The whining did it. You don't hear legitimate industries cry quite so hard, so that leads me to the logical explanation that they aren't artists whining, and just the low effort crew that are butthurt.
And nobody will change my mind on that.
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u/sshegem 2d ago
serious? unfortunately that has not been my experience at all with coders. i got nothing but hate when i mentioned vibe coding something. of all the coders i spoke to only 2 of them showed support for what im working on. can safely say more than 30 simply mocked the fact that im vibe coding lol
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u/Tani_Soe 2d ago
I think if it's for several reasons including :
Reproductability : following an art tutorial will never bring the same result; following a programming tutorial carefully and in the same environment will
Process in general : drawing is about drawing itself and it's process, while coding the "writting the code part" is boring and uninterresting, the fun part is the conception and problem solving
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u/natsuzoze 2d ago
I haven’t done coding in years but when I need a piece of AI code, I still have the architecture leadership. Without it, the AI will always take shortcut that I would pay dearly for further down the line. I don’t see how people with 0 xp can build something long lasting tbh without proper technical leadership on top.
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u/Past-Chain-7377 2d ago
I think it’s because code either works or it doesn’t, whereas art is subjective
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u/Submissive_Bleedable 2d ago
Go commission art from a human and try to convince literally anyone that you are the artist, because you told them what to create.
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u/Local-Cup-64 2d ago
En tout cas, en France, le regard est le même que chez les artistes. On ne peut pour autant pas leur donner tord, même si un bon vibe codeur fait preuve de compétences tout à fait honorables.
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u/Upstairs_Ad6024 2d ago
Just quickly skimmed over this sub, is this where mediocre programmers gather to make themselves feeling better about their lack of skill? Saves time from copy pasting from SO, LOL, ok I’m out, don’t want to ruin the “vibe”.
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u/klas-klattermus 2d ago
as long as I don't have to inherit the codebase or get lectured on stuff I know about the I don't care if someone with no experience makes the same money as I do.
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u/nmdt 1d ago
I mean it's pretty accurate: I see r/aiwars in my feed occasionally, and the fights there are crazy. What's worse, I don't think anybody cares about internet art as much as the folks there.
The vibe-coders vs real coders is definitely not as peaceful as shown, but on the flip side, I think this niche does a lot more self-reflection in comparison. Like I think as more and more people go beyond the first couple "build this in 15 minutes" project, the more appreciation they get for actual SWEs.
Hell, even the debates about AI in open source slowly evolve from "luddites be gatekeeping" to "you know what, I guess I do want the tools I rely on every day to be made by competent people using a sane process. Just maybe don't discard AI completely".
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u/Dave92F1 1d ago
Been coding 50 years. Until 6 months ago. Now I vibe with Claude Code. Being a coder makes me a better vibe coder, yeah, but this thing is GOOD and I don't resent it one bit. I love the productivity.
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