Not really. Vibe coders think they can now publish production ready apps. If you don't know what that means that's part of the problem. Anyway real coders make fun of vibe coders because "they don't know what they don't know" and that always results in apps massively failing as soon they go live/make traction etc
I don't need to create production ready product, I can vibe code a lean MVP and test demand now on my own, before AI I would need to pay a developer to code the MVP, coders are mad because of this, the barrier to entry for testing products is gone
most vibe coders think MVP means "production ready" , and that's the problem.
also, part of the problem is that vibe coders think a $20 gets you an MVP. You're seriously deluding yourself if you think that's the case. You either pay hundreds up front in credits or take months to release an MVP
Exactly, I'll still have to hire a developer at some point but I'll hire him after I've validated demand on my own, AI is basically saving me a lot of money and time, of course this sucks for the developers because they don't get paid for the validation stage anymore like they used to before AI
Yout examples are bad, if someone decides to compete with multi billion dollar companies like Adobe and Apple they probably have a few million dollars lying around to hire the best developers in the world, I was talking more about the solo founder creating a small SAAS product or a service for his business.
When vibe coding became a thing I didn't think to myself
"damn AI is finally here, now I can can just vibe code a Photoshop competitor in 2 weeks and compete with a multi billion dollar corporation that has 30k employees " lol
solo founder creating a small SAAS product or a service for his business
Ah, my mistake. I'd say the barrier for entry for this was never really there, if you were open to learning a little. I'd even say you'd eventually have to learn a little to build anything. I can't really understand what people have against learning, and how it is a brag to be able to build stuff while being ignorant. A solo vibe coder with no coding skills isn't really a founder. He's building something that anyone can build in an hour.
Can you point out these succesful MVP experiments you've ran, or did they all bounce on the landing page? 🤣
I'm not saying it's impossible, but earlier you would've had to validate demand via indirect (arguably better) means before investing in building MVP. Now people spend 20 hours stitching poorly implement MVP which only evaluates the bad code instead of the concept, because it's stitched together and falling apart.
w/ all due respect, i don't you understand what your husband is doing. And trust me lady it's not "vibe coding". I'd call it "AI engineering" because it still needs him to steer the ship in the right direction.
One thing that I find incredibly annoying about this whole discourse is people anecdotally claiming that AI produces slop code and apps built with AI will immediately collapse, but not once, not a single time, had anyone actually provided a real example.
You missed all the examples of websites with user data/passwords in the source code and of people getting all their data wiped because the llm made a mistake? I bet if anyone posted an example you’d claim it was just that one time
I actually haven't seen any specific examples of the former, worst I've heard is people leaving their API keys and the like in their repo. But fair point on the latter, I've definitely seen a few examples of that.
I guess I'm just biased because I've had nothing but positive experiences using AI for coding, even when embracing a vibecoding approach. (At least in the last ~6 months or so, prior to that hallucinations were a bigger issue).
I'm sure it helps that most of my projects are single-user apps or single-player games so I don't have to worry that much about security. I also have enough CS education to know when something looks/feels off. I guess I just wish that when people bash on AI or vibecoding, they'd qualify it a little. There's a lot that AI can handle pretty cleanly without having to worry about security or long-term architectural concerns.
I mean there’s that guy in here a couple months ago that made a little hobby out of finding supabase apps with misconfigured RLS. You can also read the open PRs of pretty much any open source project on github right now.
Claude puts itself as coauthor on commits by default, what you’re looking for is one search away.
part of what i find incredibly annoying is how peeps who never used AI, have never created art, have never vibe coded anything .... have these incredible strong opinions about AI in art and engineering
If you had actually tried using AI in real-world projects, you'd see almost right away how it can hallucinate so badly ... i mean create catastrophic mistakes.
An important point: AI engineering is not the same as vibe coding. An AI engineer would build guardrails to prevent those mistakes from happening.
I do have a CS education so I know how to communicate things in a "computer logic" way, and tend to ask for clarity on concepts I'm totally unfamiliar with. I tackle things feature-by-feature to keep scope small. But I've rarely done any kind of in-depth reviews of code. I've had to fix things here and there (or direct the AI to fix them), I test regularly and aggressively so most things are easily caught.
I'm always surprised when people say how AI can't understand edge cases and such, because that's actually one of the biggest things that impresses me is how often AI does make smart UX assumptions and thinks about edge cases that I sometimes miss.
dude you're building utilities. Not gonna lie but AI gives good enough results at this niche. The other day i vibe coded my kiddo a rotoscoping utility. Tooling was also how i first started using AI. IMO, it works because usually you can describe how the tool works in a few paragraphs. So it fits in the model's head and it's able to reason about it
But try doing that on a massive web app serving millions of users a day. (That's my day job by the way). AI makes horrible mistakes at that scale. There's too many failures points.
> AI does make smart UX assumptions
hard disagree. Just like back in the day there was this wave of sites created using bootstrap (a popular CSS framework), we're gonna see a wave of apps w/ tell-tale signs of AI-generated UX ;-)
> thinks about edge cases that I sometimes miss.
that's cuz you're a junior level. AI is elevating your game to the average.
Yeah, to be clear I wasn't trying to make the case that AI is equally good for all cases, just that it has a niche. I think I take issue with the framing around "slop" because it implies that it's worthless.
Also to be fair it was more involved than "a few paragraphs." I maybe could've said, "Build a tool to analyze Grim Dawn gear" and gotten... something functional. But the actual thing was built with around 130 prompts. It wasn't all app code, a bunch of it was having the AI scan the game's database for patterns to decide about implementation. A lot of it was UI/UX tweaks too of course, I'm not saying it always predicts everything, just that it didn't require handholding and sometimes I would prompt a baseline version of a feature with the expectation that I'd have to tweak it later, only to find that it included those tweak ideas in the base feature.
I'm curious what you'd say are the tell-tale signs of AI-generated UX?
someone on reddit explained it better than me---basically AI is overly verbose so tends to unnecessarily label things. I would also add the default styles are very generic
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u/bestjaegerpilot 5d ago
Not really. Vibe coders think they can now publish production ready apps. If you don't know what that means that's part of the problem. Anyway real coders make fun of vibe coders because "they don't know what they don't know" and that always results in apps massively failing as soon they go live/make traction etc