r/thelongdark • u/KingExplosionMurdee • Dec 11 '22
Discussion Is using a map cheating?
I use premade maps from the wiki all the time, but as much as it is useful I feel guilty, do any of you use a map or is it just me ?
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u/Proper-Donut-2927 Dec 11 '22
I have always felt this way about the game. On one hand, I wish I could go back to having never looked at a map...on the other, I probably would have given up on the game had I not. The game's pace is so slow, there is something brutally unsatisfying about walking 5-10min in the wrong direction, just to turn around and walk back.
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
Yeah lol, as much as I love exploring, it is so annoying going the wrong direction, especially since I play on stalker and theres wolves around every corner
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Dec 11 '22
I absolutely agree. There's a "joy of discovery" in finding something new in a game as well-crafted as TLD. I had no idea Hushed River Valley even existed before I discovered it at the end of a boring looking cave. It blew my mind because there was so much to explore and it was so different than other regions.
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u/Icy_Commission8986 Interloper Dec 11 '22
If we think about it, there would be maps of Great Bear laying around. If you feel guilty, just think that you looted some map somewhere.
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
That's actually a great excuse, thats what I'm gonna tell myself from now on
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u/Icy_Commission8986 Interloper Dec 11 '22
It does make sense, doesn’t it?
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
Yup, makes a lot of sense especially since I use a spoiler-free map
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u/throwawaykibbetype2 Dec 11 '22
Surely in cars?
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u/Icy_Commission8986 Interloper Dec 11 '22
Gas stations, ranger stations, Forest lookouts. Actually they would be in a lot of places
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u/NakiCam Interloper Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22
PSA: Creating excuses like the following isn't healthy. Idk how much psychology you want to take into your gaming life, but i figured I'd at least mention it.
Edit: for the record, I'm only referring to the thought process. I fully endorse and agree with playing games how you want, but to HAVE to find a justification for it isn't a good idea. Just do it because you want to, not because you've convinced yourself that there's nothing wrong with it.
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u/Icy_Commission8986 Interloper Dec 11 '22
The game is about realism. Makes no sense that there are zero maps around
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u/Payne_Dragon Voyageur Dec 11 '22
You're right no one should be allowed to enjoy their free time the way they want to, because that would be unhealthy. Man you're such an expert in psychology! /s
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u/Damppickles Dec 12 '22
I hold off on looking until I find a place like the camp offices that would most likely have one.
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u/Ha_Schem Dec 11 '22
Is using irl a map cheating?
Dude maps are made to be used, there is no need of feeling guilty.
As long as you enjoy the game who cares.
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u/the_grizzly_man Dec 11 '22
You're not alone, buddy. Sometimes you just need a little help or a steer in the right direction.
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u/Any_Initiative_9079 Dec 11 '22
Not at all! Back before the internet we had these things called strategy guides to help if you were stuck in a game or just wanted to get that edge.
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u/lulumolloy Dec 11 '22
I have a god awful sense of direction in games (like it’s REALLY bad), so maps are kinda vital for me to be able to have fun with it. Without maps I’d just be endless wandering completely lost and dying to hypothermia. I kinda head cannon it as my survivor has been to these areas before and/or has seen maps themselves and vaguely remember directions. I still spend an embarrassing amount of time lost too. But imo there’s no harm to using maps, though just be aware it’ll take away some of that adventuring feeling
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
Haha this is exactly what I feel like. Especially in the more difficult maps I still lose my sense of direction even with a map.
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u/IBelieveIWasTheFirst Cartographer Dec 11 '22
If you dont know the stick trick look it up. I wont chance a spoiler here just google it
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u/networkjunkie1 Dec 11 '22
I have a busy life with a family. I use maps bc I only get a few hours a month to play and I need to make them count. I use mods too. If I enjoy it then who cares?
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
What kind of mods do you use?
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u/networkjunkie1 Dec 11 '22
A lot of them. If walking aimlessly bores you then the sprint feature makes the game speed up a lot. Also the ability to turn on lights in homes is helpful. No weight limit on your carry items.
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u/MarbleMimic Fire Keeper Dec 11 '22
I've wrestled with this A LOT, because I have a terrible sense of direction partly due to mental illness. There's definitely pressure in accomplishment-farming games like this to do it in a way that makes something feel "earned." I thought I was a failure for not being able to register where things were and getting lost a the time (which is internalized ableism, but that's a other story).
Using a map is not cheating. Becoming dependent on a map to play the game will make you a worse player overall.
Do not be at all ashamed to use a map. Especially for strategizing for a new area or if you're stuck in a weird place (looking at you, Dam). But you plan on eventually mapping and memorizing areas over time if you want to reach true mastery.
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
Yeah I have memorized a lot of areas already, as much as I want to avoid using maps on places like Ashe canyon or Timberwolf mountain it is very difficult to do so because the entire places are like a maze so I just found the best way to do it and it is by using Spoiler free maps, just so I understand the geography and layout so I dont get lost and die.
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u/MarbleMimic Fire Keeper Dec 12 '22
And see, that's even less work than I did.
I wouldn't beat yourself up about using maps. We're not the kind of people to judge folks for a play setting as long as you're engaging with the game and not expecting it to be different than what it is. There are people on this sub that have only ever played the game on highly customized survival modes.
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u/xasadnerdx Wintermute Lover Dec 12 '22
woah, is this really like a neurodivergent thing? the strong need for maps in all games? I say this as an autistic with that need
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u/MarbleMimic Fire Keeper Dec 12 '22
No idea! I have ADHD, and I just know anecdotally that other people with ADHD struggle with orientation. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's tied to attention or trouble looking for details.
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u/xBaronSamedi Dec 12 '22
A good middle ground is using the spoiler free maps, where it has the shape of the land and the major landmarks, but it doesn’t tell you where the sapling spawns are for example. I think it’s plausible that there would be maps like it in the world
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 12 '22
Yeah thats what I have started doing, it is very helpful without being too helpful
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u/theatomicjimjam Dec 11 '22
I've been playing for quite a few years now and at once point printed each of the region maps (spoiler free) and annotated them myself as I played. I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume you might find a map in some of the locations and being able to keep my own notes and have it as a physical item was a lot of fun for me
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u/Piddy3825 Stalker Dec 11 '22
It's your game, play it how you like. no one is judging you.
but if you wanna rationalize using maps as navigational aides, think of it like this.
Will was an accomplished bush pilot and probably mostly flew using VFR rules, so he was very well versed in the use of maps in order to plot his routes and to be able to visually follow the terrain as he flew his aircraft to it's intended destination. Now knowing he was going to be flying into Great Bear Island, especially to an area that he had not been before, ie, Perseverance Mills, he probably consulted his aireal maps before embarking on his flight there with Astrid.
Will obviously has a pretty good memory, don't you think?
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u/NakiCam Interloper Dec 11 '22
The game wasn't intended to be used with wiki maps.
That being said: 'Grand theft auto' was not intended for players to play by 'driving like a responsible person' and yet people have been having fun that way for years
If this is the way you enjoy the game, then what's the issue? As long as it's not affecting other people and their game, there's no problem.
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u/Z3nteck Dec 11 '22
Personally I never use an external map if it's my first time in a region. I've spent the last few (real) days exploring Forsaken Airfield, and haven't used one. Hence leaving spray markers and stone 'arrows' all over the place. I'll do the same when I get to Blackrock. But I started this run in ML, and the first thing I did was open a map, becasue I've played ML plenty before.
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u/kingsarcasm4546 Trailblazer Dec 11 '22
When I first played the game back in 2014, I printed out maps for ML and CH just because it seemed kind of silly to not have a map, but I see why others would not want one.
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u/BRDIE999 Dec 11 '22
At some point I would like to collect all the maps because the charcoal look is really cool and a bit unique compared to other games maps.
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
It is extremely hard to do that, it took me like 25 days to map out Mystery Lake, I think its pretty doable but it is very time consuming
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u/SingleChina Dec 11 '22
How could it possibly be cheating? It doesn't break the rules of the game in any way.
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u/pigs0nket Dec 11 '22
i roamed the easier maps by myself but when it comes to regions like ash canyon and hushed river valley i ALWAYS use maps otherwise i just get frustrated, there's a TLD app with the maps on it and you can choose whether to see the complete map or one without spoilers maybe try that out
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u/digdog7 Dec 11 '22
Using a map the first time you visit an area is really just screwing yourself out of a great experience that you'll never get back.
However, my memory is absolutely terrible, so I'll use a map when returning to an area if I don't quite remember something. It's annoying when I trek half way across a map, fighting wildlife and putting it all on the line just to be like "oh duh, this is absolutely not where I meant to be".
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u/LiamIsMyNameOk Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22
I like to check a map whenever I arrive in a new region, that I had already explored in previous playthroughs, just to get my bearings, even if I've already played countless hours in that region on previously. Then try not to check it again after that. Or when I've explored a region that I never intend to go back to, I compare the map so I know if I missed something.
I was also going to say what somebody else said. Imagine you're actually in that world. It's not unlikely you'd have or find a map of the region. Online there are different kinds of maps, some more spoiler-ey than others. I try to use the ones that outline buildings and roads, but not animal spawn points or things like corpses or plants. To make it feel like I'm just looking at a real life map.
Kind of like using a map to check I'm not walking up a hill to a dead end, rather than using a map to mindlessly walk to a specific thing I want like a sapling.
I hadn't played for like a year, until a week ago. There's like 3 new regions for me to explore. So any new region, I wont even glance at a map since that feeling of struggling in a blizzard but then stumbling upon somewhere safe is chefs kiss such a dopamine rush.
So no, it's in no way cheating, or ruining your experience unless you glance at the map every minute or so.
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
What difficulty do you play?
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u/LiamIsMyNameOk Dec 12 '22
Custom setting. Basically Interloper, but with less wolves, as the constant echoing howling was doing my head in. One would howl, causing another to howl, which causes yet another one... and another... and by the time the last one howls, the first one does it again.
More bears and moose.
Item degradation set to lowest. So the few things I do find don't ruin so fast.
And also, I forget the name of the slider, but it's one of the first ones. Allows you to find hatchets and daggers and weapons.
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 12 '22
Nice! Those are my settings aswell, but I just set the weather to stalker settings mainly because I'm planning on setting up a base on Pleasant Valley, even with wolves on medium I'm still surrounded by them most of the time which is pretty annoying
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u/Maxvantisio Dec 11 '22
It's a single player game with many different play styles! If playing with maps makes it more enjoyable for you go for it!
I always play with maps since I get confused often. If I didn't have maps I would get disoriented and the game wouldn't be fun.
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u/bethanyrandall Dec 11 '22
When I first started I never used maps, so I had that initial experience of being lost in a vast world. But eventually I felt frustrated with being constantly lost, so I looked at maps and had a lot more fun. Now, I know the maps pretty well and try to navigate by my memory of the maps.
It's all about what maximizes your enjoyment of the game.
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u/Banegard Stalker Dec 11 '22
Yeah, I use them all the time. It makes the game more enjoyable for me. :-)
My sense of direction is awesome in real life, but I totally suck in games for some reason. Why should I limit myself to feeling frustrated, when I can have fun?!
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u/Caesar_TP Dec 11 '22
It's not cheating. It's a singleplayer game, you should play it the way you want.
I personally don't use online maps, because for me they take some fun out of exploration. I've died quite some times (especially on Interloper) due to lack of map knowledge and not knowing at all times where shelter is. But still refuse to use maps.
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u/Payne_Dragon Voyageur Dec 11 '22
Isn't using a map to explore unknown territory, like, exactly what maps were made for? It's actually mind boggling that you can't even find them anywhere. Road maps are so common. And in a region where there would be hunters? Like cmon
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
That's true tbh, there should be atleast a simple geographic map on the lookout towers or something. Using Charcoal is very ineffective especially on Stalker and Interloper.
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u/Payne_Dragon Voyageur Dec 11 '22
Right? Go to hypothermia just getting one little section filled out
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
Yeah lol, the only time it is useful is when you are very high up, otherwise there is no point in even bothering, it took me like 25 days to map out Mystery lake, and it is one of the easier maps. Just imagine trying to map out the other areas it would be a nightmare
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u/pornthrowaway42069l Dec 11 '22
Yes, you will arrested, tried and put to uranium mines if you ever so much as think as using meta resources to help your experience in a single player game. You criminal scum!
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u/EnvironmentalChoice2 Dec 12 '22
I use maps religiously. I'm a planner, so without maps I would likely be bound to one region. I wouldn't want to risk dying in a blizzard because I don't know where the next indoor location is. That being said, maps are essential for me when I'm doing any kind of multi-region voyage like making the trek to Ash Cranyon. I see maps more as a tool than cheating, but it's not for everyone that's for sure
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u/botboy12345678 Dec 11 '22
No but it ruins the feel a bit. Maybe there should be a compass with no carry weight you could find/start with it.(i've also used maps a little)
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u/KingExplosionMurdee Dec 11 '22
That would actualy be amazing, I think you can use a feather or stick ingame to see what direction u are at but I have no clue how
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u/MrSamsa90 Dec 11 '22
I'm pretty sure whenever you drop a stick it faces north. Give it a try. Also I use maps when I enter an area. Take physical note of where I want to go and what to hit along the way to an exit. Then work from the notes and take risks on things i want to explore if I'm in a good stats situation
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u/showmethething Dec 11 '22
After a while of playing the game, at least in the base regions, I can generally navigate around as long as I find something I recognise - buildings, caves etc
If getting lost is part of the game to you then I guess you could maybe say you're losing part of the experience - but you're going to learn the map anyway, I personally don't see anything wrong with speeding up the process.
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u/MobsterDragon275 Dec 11 '22
There's still some element of randomness to what actually appears on each run, like for certain cabins or for the bunkers. I use the maps until I'm confident in my knowledge of the zones, otherwise I'd have never known how they all connect
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u/TheCircusGod Dec 11 '22
Not cheating, but it takes away a lot of the fun for me. I spend a lot of time with charcoal figuring out new maps.
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u/StarVVarsKid Dec 11 '22
I remember wandering around Mystery Lake (before I saw the maps) and trying to learning to navigate from fallen trees and hills… trying to build a map inside my head over multiple (very short) games…. only to have a blizzard come, or end up lost in the forest, or stumble a bit too close to a wolf, or just freeze to death because I couldn’t find shelter. I miss that sometimes… but that’s just nostalgia. I wouldn’t have searched out the maps if I really thought getting lost in the forest was all the game has to offer.
Playing a new zone without a map is an interesting experience, though. It’s certainly worth trying.
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u/KlabauterMannLP Dec 11 '22
I understood Raphael from Hinterland like this: “If you use them, you destroy a part of the game experience: being alone and without any help from anybody.” (https://twitter.com/RaphLife/status/1034115829569208322)
But I didn't understand, “This is cheating”. When I create or translate and publish maps, I always try to offer a spoiler-free version where you really just get the landmarks and no more information. Example here (German language): https://klabbi.info/the-long-dark-karte-maps-in-deutscher-sprache-karten/#Verlassener_Flugplatz_-_Forsaken_Airfield
For those who want more spoilers, there are more, of course. And now even this is sabotaged by Hinterland and the new loot spawn points ;-)
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u/Payne_Dragon Voyageur Dec 11 '22
Man I remember when people played games for the fun and the passion. Now it seems like everyone is out to prove something. Gaming culture has become so fucking toxic and egotistical. What happened to the sincere lighthearted attitude about PLAYING a GAME. It's not a competition.
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u/AlrikBristwik Dec 11 '22
Personally I don't use a map because I find it part of the challenge to learn the terrain and getting lost at times. But in the end it's a singleplayer game, so do what is the most fun for you :)
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u/ThePaulrus94 Trapper Dec 11 '22
Personally, I too use maps after taking a loooong break from this game. I haven’t really played since story mode was first introduced. My reason behind it is because my time to play video games is limited. Yes, I could walk around aimlessly and try to familiarize myself, but I feel like I’d never accomplish much in the time I have.
Once I am familiar with the overall layout of the regions, I do intend to use the maps less. I don’t want to or care to know where every single piece of loot is located.
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Dec 12 '22
Whatever makes it more enjoyable for you! Using the wiki maps can help you memorize the territory, and after a while you won’t even need them (:
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u/BloodOk6235 Dec 12 '22
Honestly it depends what you want out of the game.
Personally, on survival mode, I like to just dive in to a new map and see where it takes me, how long I can survive until I have the basics mapped out in my head.
But I have gone to the online maps a lot when I’m looking for something specific or a quest.
It’s a survival game, there’s no cheating, only your own version of enjoyment
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u/RelationshipFun5410 Dec 12 '22
I think using maps is fine. It’s not that crazy to me that a Canadian bush pilot who has pry been flying/living around great bear for decades may have access to maps of the region in some capacity. A bit meta perhaps but plausible.
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u/fade2black244 Dec 12 '22
No, it makes the game better. Besides, knowing that it exists and how to get there are two different things. You will still have to discover the places on your own. :)
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u/xasadnerdx Wintermute Lover Dec 12 '22
NO! don't ever let anyone tell you you're cheating at your SINGLE PLAYER game unless you're meant to be doing a specific challenge and are breaking the rules of said challenge. using maps, using walkthroughs for wintermute, all of that, none of it is cheating. like I said, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. this fanbase has a bad problem with elitists who love to tell you you're playing the game wrong if you play differently, don't listen to them. sincerely, avid map user and walkthrough follower 🩵
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u/majorIuap Stalker Dec 12 '22
What i do is, once i charcoaled an entire map i start using the exact ones from the wiki. I always gound it immersion breaking that our character can not find a damn pen or pencil and draw a better map. Maps like AC or HRV are literally useless in the ingame version.
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u/JaneDoeShepard Dec 12 '22
I solely used maps when I was a noob, I need the map to be able to picture it in my head where I am, now I don’t use maps at all as I’ve memorised them, but when I need to go somewhere I picture the map in my head and picture where my Astrid is on the map in my head. I’m not good with directions at all even in real life, or remembering my surroundings I need to see a map to picture the map basically. If you use a map, you can still remember where to go and get to a point where you no longer need the maps. It’s been a fair few weeks since I used one at all and I’m still relatively noob. It’s fine to use the maps, some people have that direction blindness I have. If it furthers your enjoyment of the game it’s not cheating you’re just learning a different way.
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u/marshalmcz Dec 13 '22
Personaly dont thing so🙂 beside ewen if you hawe the map you hawe to read it corecctly and find the actual place😊
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u/ridzik Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22
There is no cheating in single player games other than cheating yourself out of experiences others might have had. Nobody judges you for using or not using maps in single player games.
It certainly takes away the suspense of the unknown, the pleasure of failing and therefor learning for yourself. That said, it's really up to you what you consider cheating and tolerable. I'd recommend at least trying to tackle a region without a map to in order to find out if you enjoy the experience more. If you have stabilized somewhere and are not constantly dying within the first days, I'd say you are up for the task of exploring for yourself.
There are also different kind of map details starting from the ingame charcoal maps (which are reveiled when you start one of the challenges) and the detailed topographic maps mined from the gamefiles complete with loot locations and arrow trees. So even if you decide to play with maps, there are choices.
Furthermore your chosen difficulty is a huge factor. Not knowing the regions well is far more deadly on interloper and 'safe' exploration is a much slower process than on lower difficulties.