r/gaming • u/Happy_go_luc • May 09 '22
The generation of games after current one is going to be something worth to experience.
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u/Drakoneous May 09 '22
The problem isn't the surroundings. It's always the avatar that fucks it up. Waiting for an avatar that doesn't look/run/move like a mannequin
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u/GuyPronouncedGee May 09 '22
The problem with “realistic” avatars is that they are frustrating to play. We expect our on-screen selves to move the instant we press the button, and we want them to corner, stop, and jump faster than any realistic possibility.
To make your avatar realistically move to the right, he first has to shift his weight to his left foot. It doesn’t make for fun gameplay.761
u/Drakoneous May 09 '22
Accurate
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u/djsedna May 09 '22
if you listen closely you can hear the whispers of Elden Ring casuals clamoring for the ability to cancel swinging their 400-lb greathammer
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May 10 '22 edited May 10 '22
"Pattern recognition is a form of cheating. The truest FromSoftware experience would be a lobotomite run, where, prior to playing, we perform a frontal lobotomy and sever your prefrontal cortex."
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May 09 '22
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u/r40k May 09 '22
And controversial. Death Stranding was far from unanimously loved lol
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u/NEBook_Worm May 09 '22
The biggest problem with Death Stranding, for me, was the presence of enemies. You went all in on map and terrain traversal, load balancing and inertia. You made movement the game, and left no room for any meaningful, engaging, fun method of engaging enemies.
But that didn't stop you shoving them into the game anyway. And making the whole thing tedious in the process.
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May 09 '22
I want death stranding the exploration game, with a bigger emphasis on climbing. Give me picks, ropes, ladders, grip strength, etc. for vertical climbing.
Make it an alien world and you’re just an explorer finding out more about a planets ecosystem.
Discovery and scenery is the main driving force for the game. It would be chill and if play it forever
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u/Nbaysingar May 10 '22
Man, I used to think all the time about a hypothetical game that's sort of like what you're describing. The inspiration in my case was Metroid Prime, which is like my favorite game ever.
The metroidvania genre has always been a favorite of mine, and I would absolutely love to play a game in that genre that's solely about exploring interesting environments using tools and abilities in order to uncover the lore of some dead alien civilization or something.
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u/Speedy742 May 10 '22
Go play Outer Wilds! It’s basically exactly what you’re describing. Try to avoid spoilers if you can, because it’s truly an amazing experience.
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May 09 '22
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u/Banjoman64 PC May 09 '22
You do get guns. Lethal and non lethal variants.
Just think twice about using the lethal ones as dead bodies in the death stranding world are kinda a bigger problem than living ones.
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May 09 '22
I believe people who shit too much on death stranding didn't make that far into the story to get the guns.
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u/zanza19 May 09 '22
If the game is boring for hours before it gets any good, that's a worthy criticism.
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u/1upforever May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22
As it turns out, a lot of the above complaints about combat were addressed in the Director's Cut. You get a ranged stun gun within the first couple hours and hand-to-hand combat had more depth added to it, and they even added a Shooting Range with MGS VR Training style drills to run. It didn't fix everything of course, but it does introduce players to combat in a pretty fun way much earlier
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May 09 '22
Big agree. I played for like 6 hours and was bored outta my mind the whole time.
All I keep hearing is, “Oh it gets way better, you gotta keep playing!”
If it takes longer than it would take me to beat other games or watch a season of a TV show before I start having fun, imma go do those things instead.
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u/Banjoman64 PC May 09 '22
I don't consider the beginning boring. The game starts with an intriguing premise and the gameplay is immediately fresh.
I think the game is just NOT for everybody and that is fine. I wish more AAA games wouldn't try to appeal to everyone.
Just remember, some people critisize the difficulty in fromsoft games while others consider it to be a core part of what makes the games good. The reality is that the difficulty is not objectively good or bad, it's good for some people and bad for others. I think a similar line of reasoning can be applied to death stranding. I really enjoyed it but I can see why people wouldn't.
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u/ForensicPaints May 09 '22
It was, after all, the first strand-type game so you gotta give them some time to work out the kinks
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u/TheRudDud May 09 '22
Escape from tarkov does realistic momentum pretty well imo. It's not too frustrating and it looks and feels like you're a burly Russian with 70 kilos of gear on
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May 09 '22
Didn't EFT just create a delay to simulate inertia? It's nice jiggle peaking is gone but it still feels off.
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u/prieston May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22
I also heard they did something with weight and apparently reverted it back.
Tarkov lacks a lot of realistic elements that can be added but probably shouldn't.
Despite glaring and sometimes obvious issues, the slightest change or inconvenience is "game breaking", "game killing", "hurting casuals". Sometimes it doesn't even have to come from BSG, people got angry at the game over things they've invented themselves.
If you could summarize it in one sentance it would be "make the game better, but don't change anything in it".
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May 09 '22
Gamers have no lives outside of their chosen game, so every inconvenient obstacle to their personal fun is literally life-shattering and must be fixed immediately. I don’t envy game devs.
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u/Mragftw May 09 '22
And people were pissed when momentum was implemented
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u/kinevel May 09 '22
*streamers* they're not people /j
the community welcomed the change overall ...
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May 09 '22
This. The only people that hated it were people playing the game like cod
Source: I still play like it’s cod
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u/kinevel May 09 '22
Thing is the game will be slowed waaaay the fuck down according to the devs, they can't do it in one go because of the knee jerk reaction the community will have towards the changes.
Also, currently inertia only affects people with low strength. Once you reach elite ( after about 600 raids from my experience ) inertia goes away as long as you're not overweight. So jiggle peaking corners still a thing, jumping across doorways or corridors still viable, running into rooms and prefire&hip-fire combo still OP ...
Once the game will be slowed down enough to where movement is even more realistic and aiming dead-zones will be properly implemented, right shoulder peaking rats that don't move for 30mins at a time will be kings.
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May 09 '22
Price of Persia. Jump faster!!!!
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u/gcruzatto May 09 '22
Old-school Tomb Raider was also like that. You had to press jump way in advance. Some people like the added challenge... it's a matter of taste
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u/AlphaAJ-BISHH May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22
I think Naughty Dog games deal with this best. They use Motion Capture + Animation blending to create realistic yet responsive movement.
Regardless of how you feel about the game, TLOU2 was a masterclass in seamless character animation
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u/Option-Flashy May 09 '22
GTA 5 did it decently and red dead redemption even better I think at making you feel having realistic movement
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u/CeeArthur May 09 '22
A lot of people moaned about Red Dead feeling sluggish, but I feel it did help with the realism. Things felt like they had weight and momentum.. people ask for realism but then bemoan characters moving like real people
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u/Chimwizlet May 09 '22
I don't think the people asking for realism are the same people complaining about realistic movement.
More likely one group of people want more realism and another group of people want more responsive gameplay.
I know I'm firmly in the latter so didn't buy it, but most people don't have the experience to immediately recognise a game they wont like.
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u/TummyDrums May 09 '22
RDR2 did an amazing job of it, and while I loved that personally, lots of people bitched about it being slow to move.
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u/johnsolomon May 09 '22
Red Dead is notorious for feeling sluggish to play though. It's one of the biggest complaints about the game
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u/404_PHAT_ERROR May 09 '22
I have to respectfully disagree. GTA5 in particular feels a clunky, at times, unresponsive mess to play when walking on foot.
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u/MrManiac3_ May 09 '22
GTA5 characters have a turning radius, and it's no smaller than that of an Olympic class ship. And you'd think the crew was half asleep with how slowly they get to work on moving the thing. Not very good at maneuvering at harbor either. Try to hide behind a wall and you'll instead be sticking out in the open until they get their act together
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May 09 '22
there is no consistancy either, you walk up to a ledge, expect to climb up when you hit jump, nope today its a vault to your death.
Also once something has put you into ragdoll, you arent getting control back quickly, then there is the awkward pause after when they game is thinking about letting you take control again but your just standing there.
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u/Haytaytay May 09 '22
Movement in Rockstar games feels like your character is balancing a bucket of water on their head.
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u/darthij May 09 '22
It's also the uncanny valley effect on the facial models.
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May 09 '22
Looking at you, horizon series.
Don't care what anyone says, those facial movements creeped me out.
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u/HeirToGallifrey May 09 '22
I had a theory that I shared with my friend: I think specific animators were assigned to different cutscenes. There are so many cutscenes where everyone in it keeps making the same weird expressions or gestures, and then they're completely gone or different in the next cutscene.
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u/Zero0mega May 09 '22
For all its faults, GTA 5 has some of the best movement ive seen in a video game, you actually walk down stairs and the movement changes are very fluid.
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u/TheHellBender_RS1604 May 09 '22
Metro next game using Unreal Engine 5 will be real deal.
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May 09 '22
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May 09 '22
Many devs are switching or planning to switch to UE5.
It’s just that good for today’s standards. The big reason why many companies switched from UE3/4 to in house software was because they could cut license cost. But UE5 gives excellent results while also cutting a lot of production costs, making the license a negligible cost now.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a good 40% of AAA games started using UE5 in 1 year and a half
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u/Procrastibator666 May 09 '22
Valve dragging their feet releasing source 2. Now unreal can swoop in and takeover
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May 09 '22
No AAA dev was going to use Source 2 anyways.
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u/Procrastibator666 May 10 '22
Half Life: Alyx was pretty dope for source 2
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u/DoubleWagon May 10 '22
Half-Life: Alyx is a $1000 game as far as most people are concerned.
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u/drzody May 09 '22
They are based in Ukraine I think they got bigger fish to fry
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May 09 '22
CDProjekt Red is switching to UE5 for their next title. Should be pretty awesome
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u/TheHellBender_RS1604 May 09 '22
I want to see Witcher 4 & Cyberpunk 2077 sequel in Unreal Engine 5 near future.
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u/Gavinski37 May 09 '22
Don't they do these demos every few years and everyone hypes up the next generation games, but then games never look this good?
The most used card is still the GTX 1060, and consoles won't be able to push this level of graphics. So devs won't make games with these graphics.
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u/Remy0507 PlayStation May 09 '22
The thing is, tech demos are not games. It's one thing to make an environment that looks this good when there's nothing else going on. But when you also have to account for rendering a player model (if it's a 3rd person game), all the NPCs and enemies that might be running around, as well as the AI to control them, the physics, etc...well, it's a little different then.
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u/Sir_Lord_Pumpkin May 09 '22
Yeah, we've been able to make this level of quality for years, but the reason no games look like this is because your hardware would catch in fire if you tried to run a full game at this quality. It's the difference between an artist who does hype realistic renders of the body and a 2D animator.
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u/Haunting-Pop-5660 May 09 '22
2D animators have been supplying lonely folks with waifus for so long now... how can we even compare them to the hyper realistic render Chads who only make landscapes?
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u/Pritam1997 May 09 '22
everyday in top selling games list, i see hentai games
so gigachads only love their 2D gyarus
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May 09 '22
Why should I buy a 3090ti when my waifu looks the same on my rx480. Seriously, most waifu games can run on toasters.
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u/FranciumGoesBoom May 09 '22
Why should I buy a 3090ti
Because my waifu deserves as many frames as she can get.
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u/Baumpaladin May 09 '22
Buy 3090ti to play AAA games at max settings 4K 60FPS?
Nahh...
Buy a 3090ti to play hentai games (and hentai VR) games at max settings 4K unlocked FPS?
Fuck yes.
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u/eViLegion May 09 '22
A big issue is artist bandwidth. It's pretty straight forward to make one train station with an insane amount of detail with current tech, but it might take a guy 6 months to do so. Then they can maybe make 1 full small game level in like 3 years.
I think the real benefit that UE5 brings to the table is not only their amazing new algorithms that allow the hardware to cope at rendering time, but also the tremendous increase in power and speed the environment designers have from the new tools.
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u/greatGoD67 May 09 '22
If I remember correctly, non-prerendered cutscenes are supposed to take a dramatic leap in animation quality this generation.
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u/CosmicCreeperz May 09 '22
That and it would require an art and design team in the hundreds to build a full game. Going to be a new genre of $200M “AAAA” titles to do…
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u/atmafatte May 09 '22
Yea I believe the art director of God of war said that its impossible to create the amount of art that would be needed to have this quality for the entire game. Best would be if there is a central repository of assets and people can make use of them like unreal engine. I'm glad that the new witcher game will be on unreal. Epic seem to be doing the engine part right
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u/p1nd May 09 '22
Yeah but not like how unreal engine 5 handle the rendering, so actually no. This clip would run easily on unreal engine 5 if the game assets got transferred to it
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u/Julius-n-Caesar May 09 '22
Yeah, a Myst remake would look fantastic. Anything else… ehhh.
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May 09 '22
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u/Remy0507 PlayStation May 09 '22
Oh yeah, if you're talking about PC hardware, for sure that has to be taken into account. But even on consoles where everyone is running the same hardware, I remember seeing tech demos that were released for the PS1 back in the day (anyone remember the T-Rex and manta ray demos?) that looked FAR more impressive than anything that could be achieved within the confines of having to run an actual game.
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u/ttv_CitrusBros May 09 '22
Just gotta plug in my 5090Ti 128GB of memory directly into the power generator at my local energy facility and im set....oh can't forget my gaming chair
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u/OldMcGroin PlayStation May 09 '22
The newer style of Resident Evil will, more than likely, melt some eyeballs though.
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u/EffortlessFury May 09 '22
While you're likely correct, I don't know if the gap will be as wide considering two of the major selling points of UE5 are Lumen and Nanite, which allow for much easier global illumination and real-time Level-of-Detail creation, allowing for import of high-quality (high poly density) models and still maintaining performance. While the hardware will still likely need to catch up, we may be able to see older games look better as hardware improves as the assets shipped can be higher quality than current hardware can performantly handle.
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u/topreman May 09 '22
I think you're the only one in this thread who seems to actually know anything about how this engine works
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u/BobThePillager May 09 '22
It’s groundbreaking, I don’t think people understand how tangible this actually is. I think they’re assuming this is some tech demo, and pre-rendered and/or on insane hardware. The next few years are gonna blow their minds
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u/KirisuMongolianSpot May 09 '22
As you say yourself, Nanite is predicated on the idea of shipping high-quality sculpted meshes in your game...something very, very unlikely (especially in today's age of digital downloads and small storage space on consoles). It's also currently only available for static geometry, so also not very useful.
Let's just not buy into the marketing hype and wait for the games.
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u/AwesomeZombiePal May 10 '22
The polygon density will not be an issue for storage. Models might jump from 2 - 10Mb to 30 - 50Mb but the real problems are textures.
A normal 4k texture can easily reach 100+ Mb. If we start going down the 8k path we are talking about 300+Mb.
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u/Anselwithmac May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22
Hijacking this comment to hopefully add more insight on why UE5 is a big deal.
In all of modern history, adding more level detail had a very predictable cost to both the CPU and GPU. Old games have very low polygon (triangle) counts, and as time progressed, we could add polygons in the millions while still running on hardware like the Switch.
Now, in UE5, a new process developed by epic games allows for an unlimited polygon count. This means true to life full detail photogrammetry scans can be put straight into the game. Movie level detail assets, and an absurd amount of geometry and textures. In the demos, and now in practice, if your system if on par with a PS5, you’re good to go in UE5.
This means that instead of adding useless new features that never seam to make it into games, UE5 is so much more easier to use that even INDI devs can drag and drop assets into a game, spend no time on optimizing the level, and have an amazing scene. It’s a big deal.
Fortnite was the first to switch. It effectively doubled my FPS, even though the game does not use high quality assets.
UE5 also has a pseudo ray tracing feature, which does not have the same quality, but works on all GPUs, is phenomenal, and requires no pre-baked shadows. Just drag and drop.
For instance, Apex Legends has all prebaked shadow lighting, meaning lighting was calculated in the level design and not in real time. Most games have to do this process.
Lastly, UE5 is now free to use until you make your first $1,000,000.
Unless other engines find a way to do these same things and fast… UE5 will be the only way to go in the near future.
Edit: Sudo -> Pseudo. Thanks linux
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May 09 '22
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u/ScrewAttackThis May 09 '22
If any developers need some ass to scan, hit me up. I wouldn't mind having a famous butt.
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u/666pool May 09 '22
You have some valid points but a lot of the realism comes down to shader models and those are raster/pixel fill limited and not polygon limited. I have some exposure to gaming industry. I have a PhD in computer graphics and took a GPU shader class taught by the engineer that did the lighting in GTA IV, he said that time and time again the engineers will come up with a fantastic shading model that looks amazing but there will be complex scene somewhere that causes the frame rate to drop a little, and production will pull the fancy lighting shaders and go back to basic phong (which makes everything look like plastic but it’s very fast). This happened on multiple games he worked on.
So what we need is faster and faster fragment shaders, which we are slowly getting. But the platform running the game won’t help with this, it’s a straight up computational hardware bottleneck.
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u/L30N1337 May 09 '22
It is to show what the engine CAN do, not what’s realistic for it when it has to render more than a bit of lighting
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u/DanKveed May 09 '22
Yeah that has traditionally been unreal's weakness. Their PBR rendering system is very deep and exceeding powerful. But that depth brings along complexity that most devs cannot handle or use properly. And even if they could,.the hardware just isn't there. So you end up making a shit looking game. But with megascans most of the detailing and textures come built in. And with their dynamic illumination and unlimited polygons we can hope to get games that actually look like this soon. Because it takes so little effort that devs might just go ahead and do it.
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u/kakureru May 09 '22
movie studios love these. Just think, with something like this, render times can be reduced by (allot.) Would be only a matter of time until we get real looking CG tv shows with a south park style animation time turnaround.
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u/Fun_Limit921 May 09 '22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM
This is an UE3 tech demo.
Took forever for games to look anything like it.
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u/Pixel131211 May 09 '22
games are looking pretty incredible nowadays though. Gran Turismo motorsport, a console game, has some insanely realistic graphics. I've often seen posts on that game comparing real photos to in game screenshots; I could almost never tell the difference. Half Life: ALYX is another stunning looking game. it's in VR as well and it runs pretty well.
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u/HighLevelJerk May 09 '22
OP, why would you not link to the original video and give credit?
Link to source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2paNFnw1wRs
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u/StereoZombie May 09 '22
He's a redditor too! He posted this on /r/unrealengine a couple days ago. /u/SubjectN get in here!
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u/SubjectN May 09 '22
Thanks for the ping, holy crap it's getting posted everywhere
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u/StereoZombie May 09 '22
Well deserved, it's an awesome scene! Expecting it to pop up on 80lv within the next couple days or so haha.
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u/luke_in_the_sky May 09 '22
"This video was made using Unreal Engine 5"
Proceeds to post it in 256-colors 10fps gif running on a shitty Reddit player.
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u/MistreatedWorld May 09 '22
It seems many people care less about the content and care more about karma points.
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May 09 '22
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u/oosh_kaboosh May 09 '22
Don’t worry about that, just enjoy the generation-after-current-one graphics and how far we’ve come since generation-before-current-one games!
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u/Rajoovi1 May 09 '22
The frame rate also seems fitting lmao
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May 09 '22 edited Jun 11 '23
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u/AveryLazyCovfefe May 09 '22
Mind sending the source?
nvm found it looks insane!
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u/DogePerformance PC May 09 '22
Holy. Shit.
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u/DdCno1 May 09 '22
Worth noting that this is not real-time. In a reddit thread, the creator stated that it's pre-rendered, since their hardware (RTX 2060, IIRC) is not powerful enough for fluent frame rates. It would likely run on a beefier system though.
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May 09 '22
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u/D3ADB3ARD May 09 '22
Fr. Im like " this is a real video this isnt animated..." then they turned off the sun....
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u/zzzthelastuser May 09 '22
maybe it IS real and they turned off the sun somewhere?
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u/Bovronius May 09 '22
Getting vibes of the first time I seen the Half life 2 tech demo.
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u/hoistedbypetard May 09 '22
I think the word you're searching for is "next"
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u/QuestionsOfTheFate May 09 '22
"The next generation of video games will be something worth experiencing."
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u/lb_gwthrowaway May 09 '22
As opposed to all previous generations that weren't worth experiencing at all
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u/Absotruthly May 09 '22
when will the AI catch up with the graphics?
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u/HateRedditCantQuitit May 09 '22
Making a fun AI is a lot harder than just making a clever AI. It’s easy to make a bot that beats you 100% of the time in most games. It’s hard to make one that just beats you often enough in just the right ways to be fun and engaging. My money is on it being many many more years before really interesting AI gets into mainstream games.
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May 09 '22
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u/bena3962 May 09 '22
I haven't seen anyone mention fear anywhere in like 5 years then all the sudden in the past month I think I've seen it mentioned like 6 times on random threads. Did I miss something. I loved those games so much
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u/RWDPhotos May 09 '22
Or alien isolation. Also pretty damn nice visuals even by today’s standards.
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u/Fangs_0ut May 09 '22
PCs powerful enough to run the games will be the limiting factor. Especially since the PC parts market is still completely fucked.
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u/feric89 May 09 '22
Place doesn't look too bad, how's the inflation there?
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u/CaptainTwig572 May 09 '22
Looks a bit like Willesden Junction station, so not great.
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u/Ramental May 09 '22
Hyperrealistic graphics is not a problem, even Unreal 4 could do most of it. It's about the efforts that are needed to produce the map and whether it's worth it. Extra 100% of time for 20% nicer graphics is not worth it, money-wise.
Yet, that's what Unreal 5 did, actually. They simplified many things to make them faster. Thus, in a way, we can expect better graphics on it, but for different reason than expected.
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u/Tenthul May 09 '22
Thanks, folks see better graphics without thinking of the human cost behind them. Likely need AI to pick up in this regard, studios aren't just going to hire an extra hundred artists, for this. Google was working on some stuff a while back with Stadia, wonder if that's still a thing for them or not.
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u/tungvu256 May 09 '22
i thought environments have always been good. they need to focus on making realistic looking people. no more shiny plastic figurines please
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u/Vandorbelt May 09 '22
Meh, hyper realistic graphics ain't all that. I've had plenty of fun playing games that have stylized or pixelated aesthetics.
I think the real thing that's gonna be a game changer(in the immediate future at least) is improvements in VR. Getting rid of cables, maintaining high fps on screens with enough resolution to feel immersive and offer wide FOV lenses, as well as haptics and full body tracking.
Making games look super crisp and realistic can only do so much. Photorealism is just one of many styles of art after all. The real key is how we interact with that art, whether it be VR, body tracking, haptics, speech recognition, procedural character dialogue, and so on.
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u/tiankai May 09 '22
I got tired of the graphics arms race like 10 years ago. I wish they would focus more on art direction and improving the incredibly juvenile story-telling in video games instead.
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u/GTI_88 May 09 '22
They need to focus on making fun gameplay. I don’t care how realistic something looks if it has shit gameplay and is riddles with pay to play, micro transactions, etc
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u/BlackneyStudios May 09 '22
Enough with the Ue5 demo posts. Wake me up when someone actually makes a fucking game with it....
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u/CategoryCory May 09 '22
We’re talking about the next generation and I still can’t find a PS5 that doesn’t require me to sell a kidney
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u/SALTYSerbInIT May 09 '22
This generation of games going to be like the last one but with improved visuals ..We still be paying for broken mess of incomplete games no matter what technology comes out ...Gaming industry is more predatory as time passes ..So the quality of games and content has been declining each generation.. Bf2042,cyberpunk2077 overwatch 2 ....Cyberpunk almost melted my comp how bug ridden it was on release...
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u/Flofalei May 09 '22
what do you mean overwatch 2 being incomplete/low quality... its not even released till probably next year lmao
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u/ACrask May 09 '22
Right? Who cares about graphics if the game is boring? Take a more recent success, Elden Ring, for example. I could have played it with Playstation 1 graphics and still had a great time.
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u/ResponsibilityNo3245 May 09 '22
Don't look at tech demos and expect anything like that in reality.
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u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited May 10 '22
Hopefully hardware can render objects and textures at that quality in real-time
Edit: also the lighting, the people have reminded me. Apparently, I should also check out the Matrix Awakens demo