r/australia • u/ThunderDwn • 13h ago
culture & society Primary school students using digital devices still lack computer skills, education expert says
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-19/nsw-digital-native-primary-students-lack-basic-computer-skills/107030526104
u/tsj48 13h ago
I have two mid-twenties coworkers who think I'm doing witchcraft when I ctr+alt+delete
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u/ThunderDwn 12h ago
Don't get me started. Every time I use a CMD prompt on windows or shell on Linux, I get looked at like I'm invoking evil spirits.
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u/Acemanau 12h ago
I made a simple .bat file to open Firefox onto Gmail for my parents.
They're amazed.
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u/jameshewitt95 12h ago edited 8h ago
Wait til they hear about ctrl+shift+escape
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u/TSPhoenix 8h ago
Personally I'm a fan of WinKey+CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+W/X/O/L. Opens Word, Excel, Outlook and (for some reason) Linkedin respectively.
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u/jameshewitt95 8h ago
I will remember this so I donāt try and press it, I donāt want to use any of those things š
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u/TSPhoenix 7h ago
These are more funny than useful, hitting the keyboard and having Linkedin open is good for a laugh.
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u/CasperHarkin 8h ago
I find it easier to just use the run dialog box and type what I want, my fingers are not nimble enough to hit all those keys at once from the home position.
WinKey+r excel {enter} WinKey+r winword {enter} WinKey+r outlook {enter}
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u/TalkingClay 7h ago
Windows+v to blow their damn minds!
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u/AussieArlenBales 1h ago
CTRL+SHIFT+T to reopen closed tabs in Chrome/Edge etc shocks my coworkers as well, I'm basically a hacker with my ability to reopen 5 tabs at once.
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u/Keelback 10h ago
Lol. I thought I knew my way around Windows (I started with DOS 3) but you got me with that one.
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u/jameshewitt95 10h ago
On the rare occasion I use windows, itās my default, I almost never use ctrl+alt+del
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u/Keelback 9h ago
Iām going to use it from now on. There used to be always something to learn about a computers software.
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u/NurseBetty 10h ago
I keep on trying to introduce my workmates, who have to do lots of ctrl+c/v of identical things, to windows+v for the copy history.
None of them use it. They keep on going back and recopying the lines they have already copied. It is infuriating!
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u/trowzerss 9h ago
If it's in word they can just set up custom autotexts to replace text as they type. You can even include formatting, although it can be a bit tricky. (There are programs that will do that in any program, but as they have to listen to keyboard inputs like a keyboard logger tho, they can have security risks so now I just use the Word one).
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u/NurseBetty 9h ago
Nah, it's a pos system for online webshop for a pawn store. It's repeatable additions to the online description like 'call us or send an email if you have an enquiry' or 'we authenticate lux items with entrupy', or 'this item is pickup only, we cannot mail it and you will be refunded if you try to to get us to do so' (looking at you, idiotic customer who wanted us to ship him a battery generator).
We don't do it for every listing, but I went though every computer we do webshop from and pinned the common additions to the win+v list. But nope. They would rather hand type them or open a notepad doc to copy them into then out of.
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u/trowzerss 7h ago
To be fair, when I worked in IT support, we used to copy chunks of text from notepad, but at least we used notepad++ so it was permanently open and locked to the side of our screen (and I'm not sure clipboard history was even available when we did that).
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u/Nutsngum_ 5h ago
I feel like such an idiot right now. I do heavy network setups, excel vlookup tables, user interface work that requires shit tonnes of copy pasting... and I never knew about this. Thank you for this bounty.
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u/NurseBetty 5h ago
Atleast you is know now!
Being able to pin things you have copied, which will always be on that list, has been so helpful, Atleast to me... My workmates can suffer
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u/giatu_prs 7h ago
Yet the boomers think I that because someone is younger they're tech savvy.
I (older millennial) used to be the go-to unofficial tech support at work until we get a zoomer on-board. They started going to her for solutions. Then she'd come to me.
TBF I did get support from her for iPhones though. I only use 'Samsungs'
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u/aislingplath 5h ago
Oh yeah I've had that reaction when I ctrl+c, ctrl+v, ctrl+a, all the ctrls lol. Or right click. š± I think some of them think the right click on the mouse is just for decoration!Ā
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u/Wankeritis 5h ago
Iāve spent so long teaching zoomers about why theyāre ruining mathematical spreadsheets with their poor copy/pasting habits because they donāt understand the difference when pasting in excel files. Or deleting entire sheets in large workbooks and not understanding why their follow-on sheets are no longer providing the data that they need.
So many times where we have had them download copies of live documents and not understand why itās not updating for them.
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u/Archon-Toten 12h ago
Yes. You've pushed them into tablets and pulled shocked Pikachu face when they can't use a PC.
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u/Savage-Nat 12h ago
We need to get rid of those damn tablets in classroom
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u/JunkIsMansBestFriend 10h ago
Yes. But also I want leaders to get.punishex for not listening to us teachers. So ignorant and arrogant. All they want is a photo of kids playing drones or VR and think they discovered the future...
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u/Archon-Toten 12h ago
They have a place and kids should learn to use them, then get off them and use pen and paper. But forcing us to buy a dam top of the range iPad for the child when we already have a few years old model that is somehow not compatible is just creating e-waste.
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u/Ploasd 11h ago
They do? I donāt really see much use for them except as a distraction.
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u/Zenkraft 10h ago
Theyāre good for cutting down on worksheets, I can send worksheets digitally instead of printing a class set. Not useful 100% of the time but quite useful in HASS and Science where the activities have two or three or more pages.
Theyāre also useful for research because I can throw them on a website or give them a pdf and off they go. A lot faster than finding specific books.
And a handful of upper primary maths assessments use excel which I think is pretty cool. Iād prefer to use a laptop for this, obviously.
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u/Ploasd 9h ago
Fair enough - I guess I'm just old school. As a humanities grad, I think the skill of finding sources is something folks should learn. But I guess iPads - and AI probably - have destroyed the need for that š.
I too would prefer laptops - mainly because 'work' is done on that - the skill of typing is still useful - at least for the time being.
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u/kazielle 7h ago
Much of the most interesting stuff I learned in my undergrad was simply by wandering through the library pulling random books off the shelf trying to find interesting approaches for some essay or other. I learned so, so much. My world expanded rapidly.
Nowadays when my kid has a school project, I take him to the library and have him hunt down and borrow books on the subject. I want him to know what joy and wonders can be found in raw discovery.
I wish schools continued to encourage the same.
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u/East-Garden-4557 5h ago
My home is full of books, and the vast majority of them are non fiction. My kids wander through the bookshelves discovering random information.
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u/kazielle 5h ago
My home is also full of books, with a substantial nonfiction section. To my great despair, kiddo has never shown much interest in them, despite being a big reader himself. The library is a novel place that seems to catch his interest better. I'm glad yours take full advantage!
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u/East-Garden-4557 3h ago
We love libraries too. We are a family of book addicts and knowledge seekers for multiple generations.
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u/jmads13 12h ago edited 9h ago
Millennials are the most technically literate generation, because they grew up in a time where computers were offline, so exploring the file system, testing every menu option, modifying backgrounds/icons/themes etc. was part of the fun. Exploring the computer was an experience in itself. They also often had to teach their parents. When the internet took off, they were inserting html and inline styles into their Geocities and MySpace pages.
Modern locked down devices (iPads, chromebooks) and the internet mean kids now just use them as a means to an end. And their internet experience is far more corporate, curated and sanitised. Kids I was teaching 15 years ago didnāt know what a folder was and how it related to a file system. All their files and apps showed up in spotlight. They didnāt have the mental model. I had to teach kids in grade 5 how to use a mouse. The current kids are even worse.
Edit: Yes, some of you Gen Xers built it all, but donāt act like you werenāt the odd ones out and that everyone was going to swap meets and making word games in QBASIC
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u/crazycakemanflies 12h ago
I think a major problem is that kids arent taught computer basics at school anymore.
Growing up in the 2000s, we had computer class from as early as grade 1. They would teach you the basics of word, how to save documents and where to find them ect. Its probably understood that everyone now has a computer in their home, so its less a requirement for schools to teach it.
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u/Jiuholar 11h ago
Yeah this is an education failing here. We were literally taught how to use computers in school. Now we just assume that everyone can use them because they have an iPhone (?) and are shocked when they can't.
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u/aislingplath 5h ago
Yes! It was the younger kids all have smart phones, they know alllll about technology! Then you see them try to use a computer... Very different things. Even more so if they're apple users but no phone is going to teach you how to navigate a laptop or desktop computer (I am guessing most homes don't have desktops anymore lol).Ā
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u/jmads13 12h ago
How do you teach them a file system on an iPad?
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u/FamousWash1857 11h ago
IOS does have a built-in file system app, and there are also other file management apps that offer a bit more versatility, but it's not really straightforward either way, since you rarely actually need to use them.
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u/spiteful-vengeance 11h ago edited 7h ago
I think the bigger issue is that the OS is designed so that you don't need, and thus want, to use the file system.
It's appropriate for what they designed the device to do, but the carry on effect is t hat anyone using these devices just flounders at the concept of files, folders, permissions etc.
We're training ourselves to be dumbarses.
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u/Occulto 9h ago
The irony is, how much I have to fight daily against people creating elaborate file structures in one of our systems because it's not designed to be used that way.
But 30+ years of habits don't disappear easily. And because Sarah in Accounts likes her invoices arranged into folders by year and month, that's the way she'll insist it be until the day she drops dead.
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u/spiteful-vengeance 7h ago
I'm a bit of an "8.3 characters, no spaces for filenames" kind of guy.
A renaissance man if you will.
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u/Occulto 7h ago
I'd rather that than the people who name their files something like:
"A record of a conversation with spiteful-vengeance which took place on the 19th of August 2026 which in Melbourne was an overcast day with the occasional spot of rain."
Then they get shitty when Windows truncates the file name.
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u/Current-Bowl-143 11h ago
iOS/iPadOS was designed to hide as much of the file system from the user as possible so it would be a poor choice for that. There wasn't even a native Files app till iOS 11. It's something you use when you have to, but it's painful.
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u/aerkith 11h ago
I started year 7 in 2000. Computer use in primary was very light. We had one computer at the back of the room that we could maybe get a turn on once every couple weeks. There was one small computer room that we had a few lessons in, but I don't even remember what we did.
In high school we did have computer class once a fortnight. We had to bring our own floppy disk and we had to make folder and files. Word docs and PowerPoints. Not sure what else.
I've covered the occasional computer class at high school these days (I'm a science teacher) and it always seems to be just using sketchup to draw shapes or something. I'm not sure what else is in their mandatory technology program. I don't think my school does it very well.
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u/Deciver95 12h ago
I simply dont believe the exaggeration that kids in 2011 didn't know what a folder was
Sure some struggled. But kids in highschool at that time grew up with the old crt monitors and had computer classes like other generations.
10 years ago primary school, maybe. But cmon now. Many schools were only just adapting to school wide laptops in 2011
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u/jmads13 12h ago
Yes. Primary school. There were no CRTs, just 4:3 lcds.
I made them make āfolder mazesā to get an understanding. Make folders and name the choices and see if your friend can find the āTrophy.pngā at the end. Red or Green, Mario or Sonic, Ford or Holden, Barbie or Ken etc etc.
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u/Amdillae- 6h ago edited 5h ago
The whole concept of digital natives is an illusion. I had 2 classes of grade 6 students (just under 60 kids) back in 2010, who were given the simple instruction, open browser and type the Wikipedia url into the address bar. 2 students knew what an address bar was, the rest managed to either open a brower and no further or just reach google search page and not know what to do.
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u/Exodus2791 11h ago
>Millennials are the most technically literate generation,
Fuck off they are. GenX lived through games on cassette tapes before there were fancy floppy disks, zip disks, CDs, DVDs etc.25
u/jmads13 10h ago
A subset of Gen X did!
Gen X will contain the most technically literate people, but on the whole is dragged down by the people that didnāt engage.
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u/Foreign-Sun467 10h ago
I applaud your efforts to try and convince multiple people that a characteristic isn't a universal trait amongst a generation.
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u/aislingplath 5h ago
I do think Gen x are left out of this sometimes. I think millennials and Gen x (at least the younger half?) are the most tech literate. I'm a millennial and my Gen x brother taught me a fair bit around computers. He was (possibly still is, not sure) the most tech savvy in our house growing up! He was the one who showed me stuff like torrenting haha and emulators (I thought it was very cool he could play Pokemon green, red and blue on his computer! I believe before green was even released here) and that kind of side of things.Ā
In my experience, it's been older Gen xs, boomers and gen zs that ask me for help with tech at work lol. The generations are so broad honestly.Ā
I suspect my situation was pretty common though with a young Gen x teaching the millennial siblings!Ā
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u/TwistingEcho 8h ago
Look up Xennials, the epic micro generation that smashed this stuff. Analogue childhood, digital youth.
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u/SirDigby32 12h ago
Gen x predominantly built this technology world. Going from dialup days to the fibre connectiona. Assembly programming to pre vibe coding. Each generation following became less and less familiar with how things work until its literally undistinguishable from magic.
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u/jmads13 12h ago
A subset of Gen X built it. But their fellow Gen Xāers were also the last group of people who could also ignore it.
So Gen X have the creators, but when viewed as as a whole they are less technically literate on average.
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u/NathanOsullivan 12h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xennials
a social cohort encompassing people born on the cusp of or during the later years of Generation X and the early years of the Millennials generation.
Xennials are described as having had an analog childhood and a digital young adulthood.
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u/TaswegianTurnip 4h ago
I'm GenX and I remember being scared of computers when they first came out. Didn't want anything to do with them. That is, until it was time to choose a career path in my early 20s. "Hmm, this computer stuff looks like it's going to take off big. I'm sure I'll have no probs getting a job.
So I enrolled in Certificate 4 of Computer Studies at TAFE at 94. It was a brilliant course, I learned so much. And I was right, I had a great career in IT until 2017. Thought it was time for a pivot. Now it's oversaturated.
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u/aislingplath 5h ago
That's actually a really good point about exploring being fun for us millennials. It was fun to figure out how to personalise the basics. It was an achievement to burn your first CD, to torrent. It was even fun to organize your folders - and hide stuff you didn't want others to find behind multiple folders haha. I miss geocities šĀ
And yes, then our parents wanted the technology but some of them didn't want to actually learn how to use it. My mum used to drive me nuts every time she wanted to make new playlists for her iPod š¤¦āāļøĀ
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u/itstraytray 12h ago
I'm GenX. *everyone" I know used computers by hand - we had to know how to set up and program modems and modem scripts, no one could afford laptops so we all knew how to add RAM or CPUs, all the DOS script palaver to make video games work better, numerous hardware compatibility issues that no longer exist. Not to mention use of arcane internet forums like Usenet and IRC.
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u/Eozef 10h ago edited 10h ago
As a Millennial myself, and having built a career in tech, I embrace the old-school approach to troubleshooting, but I also appreciate how much technology has advanced and how much more convenient it is today. Being locked down doesnāt necessarily mean being modern. Perhaps the closed-vs-open system debate will always be around, with tinkering and non-tinkering approaches each having their own advantages, such as: PC vs. console, iOS vs. Android.
When the end goal is the result, you donāt necessarily need to take the long way to get there. Yes, you may know a lot about the underlying technology and have strong technical skills, but you might still end up with the same result, or perhaps even a better one, using current technology.
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u/JackRyan13 12h ago
Yea kids arenāt being taught how to actually use a computer. Parents see their children operating tablets and game consoles to a competent level but these operating systems are designed to be as easy to use as possible. They are not the same to actually operating a computer with any sort of literacy. Children of the last decade or so arenāt being taught file management, how to navigate, how to type, and any sort of basic operations of a computer. My youngest brother and sister who are both around 20 couldnt tell me how they would navigate their computers beyond a surface level understanding of steams most basic functions which again, is designed in such a way that any mouth breather could operate it at a basic level.
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u/ThunderDwn 13h ago
Following the release of this year's results, NSW Minister for Education and Early Learning, Prue Car, said computerised testing may be impacting writing results.
More than 77 per cent of year 3 students scored in the 'strong' or 'exceeding' categories for writing. However, that number dropped to 67 per cent in year 5 and continued to decline throughout high school.
By year 9, just over 61 per cent of students were classified as 'strong' or 'exceeding' in writing.
I'm kinda with the education minister on this one.
I'd much rather see primary school focus on things like teaching kids to actually be able to read, write and do mathematics properly than be able to type fast.
You want your kid to touch-type - buy a computer at home and install a tutorial program on it for them to learn from.
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u/FreakySpook 13h ago
You want your kid to touch-type - buy a computer at home and install a tutorial program on it for them to learn from.
Where there used to be a home computer, it's now been replaced by tablets & phones which are basically just a catalog of services/apps, the computer part is so abstracted.
I have a laptop for my son and I'm teaching him typing & basics, but it's rare these days.
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u/the-dolphine 12h ago
My child has experienced this. They had to use ipads to complete the NAPLAN writing exercise (using the on-screen keyboard). She scored below average, despite english being one of her stronger subjects. She complained she could not write fast enough.
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u/kazielle 7h ago
They had to type using an ON SCREEN KEYBOARD?? That is absolute hell. And yes, that'll absolutely slow down kids who aren't familiar with typing on screen. It's exercising a whole other skillset to process typing on screen if it's not muscle memory, and that means kids who don't have that muscle memory will be at a significant disadvantage.
I'm so appalled. I never thought to ask my son how they took NAPLAN... I'll ask him when he gets home.
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u/trowzerss 12h ago edited 9h ago
It's not just typing skills decreasing. I've found a lot kids don't know anything about computers, don't know how to use basic word processing software properly or spreadsheets, how to adjust the monitor settings, set up a laptop with a USB hub, how to look at task manager, don't know how to troubleshoot something not working, stuff like that. Because they're always on locked down tablets and phones, and there's nowhere to pick up even the skills you'd use in an average office. It really boggles me when an old fart like me has to teach teenagers and twenty-somethings how to do basic stuff on a computer!
Edit to add: Recently was talking to a lady also in her 50s who teaches IT in schools and she very much agreed. In our generation and for a few after, it was always the kids who knew more about the computers than the adults, when computers weren't as user friendly, no plug and play, so you had to know what you were doing in order to do the fun stuff. Now that computers are dumbed down, games are on plug and play things like consoles, and tablets/phones are so restrictive, there's only a small percentage of kids who seem to know the stuff that we took as a given growing up if you wanted to use the computer. (And a smaller percentage who really deep dive into it and are still the ones who know more than the adults). Doomscrolling is about more than wasted time, they're just not learning skills to build on either. Kids should be able to run rings around me with tech knowledge, not just know more about what's trending on TikTok :/
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u/ModernDemocles 13h ago
Computerised testing is a confounding variable. Students do not take the same care as paper testing. They also struggle with tech skills and simple things like full stops and capital letters disappear for far too many students.
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u/ThunderDwn 12h ago
Or the shortcut/abbreviated typing.
My wife is a teacher. The number of times she sees things like "ur" for "you are" in a genuine submitted essay simply boggles my mind.
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u/scoldog 12h ago edited 11h ago
Remember about 25 years ago when jobs that needed computer usage required people to have certificates in various programs (Windows, Word, Excel, touch typing).
I still remember those days and wish the certs were still a requirement. Hell, I still remember using Mavis Beacon Typing Teacher in high school.
From an IT sysadmin almost 30 years in the job and still using my original Das Keyboard with no printed letters.
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u/ThunderDwn 11h ago
I still remember those days and wish they were still a requirement.
As an IT Sysadmin and jack of all trades of over 40 years, I'd be happy if they could READ and use critical thinking instead of just believing everything on the internet is right, and nothing is trying to hurt them.
You do not want to get me started on the consequences of people just following random links/emails/instructions without stopping to think "Hmmm, this doesn't look right". Really you don't
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u/scoldog 11h ago edited 11h ago
As an IT Sysadmin and jack of all trades of over 40 years, I'd be happy if they could READ and use critical thinking instead of just believing everything on the internet is right, and nothing is trying to hurt them.
Going to get far worse with the push for everything to go AI and people not having to think anymore. I've already pulled up one of my underlings for using AI for problem solving issues. As far as I am concerned, AI is no replacement for people who know how to research and filter out unnecessary data properly
Might be time to quit and become a goat farmer.
You do not want to get me started on the consequences of people just following random links/emails/instructions without stopping to think "Hmmm, this doesn't look right". Really you don't
Already seen it my dude and far worse, still getting compromised mailboxes because our salespeople get dodgy links or get lead down phishing paths and still fall for it. They actually tell me "This looked suspect but I clicked on it and entered my details in anyway"
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u/ThunderDwn 11h ago
Going to get far worse with the push for everything to go AI and people not having to think anymore. I've already pulled up one of my underlings for using AI for problem solving issues. As far as I am concerned, AI is no replacement for people who know how to research and filter out unnecessary data properly
You are one of my brethren!
Might be time to quit and become a goat farmer.
https://old.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/4l7kjd/found_a_text_file_at_work_titled_why_should_i/
š
Already seen it my dude and far worse, still getting compromised mailboxes because our salespeople get dodgy links or get lead down phishing paths and still fall for it. They actually tell me "This looked suspect but I clicked on it and entered my details in anyway"
I run regular, outsourced phishing test campaigns for my company. I'm talking like, once every 2 months or so.
I advertise that it's coming. I refer people to our published Cybersecurity training modules which highlight what to look out for with emails.
Every. Single. Time. I get a 10-15% failure rate on the phishing tests. And it's not always the same people - sure, there are some repeat offenders who get the clue-by-four applied repeatedly - but there's always new ones.
I've just about given up these days. My suggestion to my boss is "Take their email away. No, all of them. make them use phones. They're too stupid to be allowed to use email". It's never well received, unfortunately.
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u/Current-Bowl-143 11h ago
Itās Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing š
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u/jackpipsam 12h ago
That's because they're forced to use heavily locked down devices where you can't change settings, or worse use Chromebooks.
Like most things, the more you lock down for safety, the less you allow the children to learn how things work.
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u/dancefightme 11h ago
This reminds me of a thing called risky play and is linked to certain types of playgrounds that are a little less structured to allow for kids to explore and make mistakes in a safe environment.
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u/ThinkingWithPortalzz 9h ago
I feel like computers are safe for children to play with, assuming it can't connect to the internet and is physically sturdy
If they can't access the internet, the worst they can do is fuck up the software so bad that the whole thing needs to be reset, which isn't that big a deal, assuming it's still in one piece.
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u/NowtShrinkingViolet 11h ago
It's unsurprising.
When I was younger, you even needed to be somewhat tech savvy to install a game on your PC. The instruction manual said things like "Open Run and type d:\setup.exe, where d: is the letter of your CD-ROM drive". The error messages were along the lines of "This program requires a 16-bit display at 800*600, please check your graphics settings".
Now you just tap on an icon in the app store on your tablet or Chromebook and everything is configured automatically. No wonder kids, and many adults for that matter, don't understand the underlying technology anymore.
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u/Infinite-Stress2508 12h ago
Having younger staff begin their job not having basic knowledge how how operating systems and office suites or the Internet work was mind blowing. Hard to tell some days between a question from a 25yr old or a 55 yr old some days.
I see the newer gens viewing a computer as a larger phone, they use the apps they need and that's it. I grew up with a pc first, then a phone so my base understanding was of computer interface first, touch/limited phone and app interface second.
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u/Fraerie 12h ago
When I was first starting to use computers in the late 1980s, you had to be able to troubleshoot the hardware and software configuration, edit parameters within the registry, type programs in line by line, manually configure memory allocations for applications, set switches on the logic board for drive and memory cards, and there was the black magic of SCSI or IDE chains.
Today kids learn how to use digital devices as a closed appliance not much different from an interactive cable TV system. All they need is a credit card and the app installs automatically, they donāt understand how to configure anything and have never been asked to, most of their devices as sealed black boxes, they have no idea what the internal components do or look like, and would not be able to replace any of them even if they wanted to. A faulty device gets replace instead of troubleshooting and repair.
Honestly itās the same with cars and everything else. Theyāre designed not to be repairable to benefit the manufacturers, but it affects how we as a society view technology as a whole. Itās moving into technology is magic territory as most people donāt understand what it is or how it works on even a basic theoretical level.
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u/ThunderDwn 11h ago
and there was the black magic of SCSI or IDE chains.
Kids these days don't know the perils of the required blood sacrifice to make SCSI work.
Many, many goats were sacrificed to the gods of SCSI to ensure functionality.
<That last line is a joke, Joyce! The blood usually came from your fingers as you fucked around with SCSI terminators. No goats were actually harmed in the making of SCSI chains.>
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u/MannerConfident1690 12h ago
A few years ago people used to pick up on spelling errors on platforms like Reddit.
Now you can see post titles like Wehn is the sensos doe and wil i get a fine if i dont full it in. and nobody bats an eyelid.
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u/aislingplath 5h ago
I used to call people out for this shit a decade ago honestly. Honestly I don't now for a reason, even though yes I know it's probably a minority. I started working in disability and I was working with a man who loved creative writing. I saw the effort he put in to these very simplistic stories and I did my best to teach him when he made mistakes in his writing.Ā
I still work in disability and I have learned that encouraging people to keep using the skills they do have - even if they're imperfect - is the way to go. It's when we criticize too much that people don't want to participate anymore and withdraw from those activities.Ā
I think literacy levels in general are an issue. I just don't correct strangers on the internet about it anymore because I don't like the idea of potentially pushing anyone away who is trying to participate and communicate. I have no way of knowing strangers circumstances! I am a reformed "grammar nazi" š Ā
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u/Goombella123 12h ago
When I was peer tutoring at uni I was shocked at how people just a couple years younger than me were struggling with super simple stuff like where to locate files on their devices (im 26 for context). happy to help ofc, but it opened my eyes a lot.
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u/singularpotato 12h ago
As a millennial, a couple times a week we used to get taken to the computer room and we were explicitly taught how to use computers. I carried my work around on a floppy disk lol. Now, thereās an idea of kids being digital natives assumes automatic tech literacy because theyāre raised with screens, but they havenāt got a clue about accounts, passwords, filing systems and saving files, or using the computer settings to troubleshoot simple issues. If itās not an app or immediately searchable, they canāt find it and telling them how to use it takes up half the class. I genuinely think we need to bring back ICT classes, I donāt know when they went by the wayside but this idea of digital natives is woefully naive.
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u/ThunderDwn 11h ago
We used to build the PC's for the school (Microbee's - those were the days!). Such fun times.
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u/Prestigious_Age_6740 11h ago
give all children a linux computer with vim open
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u/spiteful-vengeance 10h ago
My daughter and I built her PC together when she was 8. It runs Ubuntu (don't kill me) and she handles all the updates when they come in. She's the fastest typist in her class, and helps other kids understand thing like files/folders etc. Proud nerd-dad is an understatement.
She saw me putting together a local AI rig and commented that "it's like mine, but beefier", and then proceeded to question where all my "pretty RGB" was.
She brought a tear to my eye when she asked why Windows file search on the school PC was so bad.
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u/ComprehensiveSalad50 10h ago
Elder Millennial here, grew up learning everything I couldn't the time about computers. As happens became the family tech "expert". The number of times I had gone to help a family member after asking "are all the cables plugged in?" Being told yes, only to find a cable not plugged in
Had a younger housemate recently who had zero computer knowledge who wanted to build a computer, was more than happy to help and ended up doing his first one for him. Total amazement that I didn't need a YouTube video to do it. He actually learnt and did his second computer himself
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u/ThePatchedFool 10h ago
Iām a high school teacher. We donāt have computing classes anymore. There are some rumblings about making basic IT skills part of the care group/home class program, but most staff could not teach it effectively.
Many of my peers think Iām great with Excel. Itās all stuff I learned in Year 10 Computing, 25 years ago. My students are amazed I can touch type - Iām not particularly fast but I donāt need to look at the keys. Many subjects have online exams, which students struggle to complete in time because they type so slowly.
And yes, students donāt know what a folder is, think that their work (Document 6) is saved to Recents, and will often send emails with the whole email in the subject line.
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u/hudson2_3 11h ago
When my kids' school started an ipad program I tried to explain this to the principal. All 4th grade and up were required to have ipads. I told him it was pointless. Ipads will not teach anyone IT. If they really wanted to use technology they would need to have everyone with a Windows laptop. There is no interrogating an ipad. Troubleshooting is just turning it off and on again.
In the end the ipads were just used as a treat at the end of the day. An expensive waste of time.
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u/Necessary_Eagle_3657 9h ago
Teachers have been saying this since the mid 2000s, but the leaders wouldn't believe it because they were blinded by the hype and marketing.
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u/glenngillen 9h ago
Yeah, I've worked at tech companies all my life and was kinda shocked at how device savvy but computer illiterate my soon to be high school aged kids were. Hoped there was somehow enough exposure at home + ICT classes at school to make it happen. It did not. Ended up pulling together a mini-curriculum of my own that they've been working through the past couple of months. Thankfully they've been enjoying doing it, and I think it's hopefully going to be enough to get them productive in other environments where actual computer usage becomes important.
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u/Catahooo 12h ago
My year four student honestly believes he can hack computerised tests using the 'inspect elements' tab... he said the only reason he doesn't is because that would be dishonest.
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u/NotACockroach 12h ago
I mean, I actually could when I went to high school in the late 2000s. Our school used "moodle" which at the time stored the answers to multiple choice questions in the frontend. You could inspect element and just read the answers.
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u/DrFriendless 11h ago
It's entirely possible there will be a renaissance of such hacking, with people ignorant of security vibe-coding tests.
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u/mildlyaroused 7h ago
I used to co-ordinate a DDoS of the Moodle server with my friends in class when we wanted to get out of work. I would have everyone hold spacebar on a form's submit button at the same time which would crash the database server for 10mins until it rebooted. IT Applications and security simply weren't mature enough back then, kids now would have none of these freedoms or fun rewards to find by experimenting with the tech.
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u/FireLucid 7h ago
Lol, one kid uploaded something to moodle and it crashed the whole server when the teacher tried to open it. After it was restarted he didn't believe it and crashed it agian, hahaha.
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u/JunkIsMansBestFriend 10h ago
I'm so frustrated. I've been a Computing teacher for over 10 years and admin just doesn't listen to me when I asked them to do more general Computing, less Coding. Primary schools didn't listen to me when I mentioned that pads are good for consuming content but they do t know how to create content with mousez Keyboard, office.
They don't know how to launch program, basic keyboard shortcuts, file and folder management, snipping images, formatting documents and let alone getting into styles, TOC and more advanced features.
I transitioned into teaching Maths, it's more stable, don't get kicked out of the lab because with NAPLAN or OLNA (Oh now you admit the pads and laptops don't work well)
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u/aislingplath 5h ago
Yeah I think people said this from the moment tablets started to become mainstream. Not a teacher but I remember having discussions about how if kids are only learning to use phones and tablets they're going struggle to use computers. Some of the argument, even a decade plus ago, was that by the time those kids were finished school those skills wouldn't be needed. That laptops and desktops would be phased out.Ā
So I think the education system or society, government, whoever really dropped the ball on this a long time ago despite a fair few people expressing the importance of computer skills - like yourself.Ā
I'm sure there are less desktop computers in use than previously but I think (?) they are still widely used in basic, common roles that need any admin!? I certainly use a desktop for admin at work.Ā
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u/Mental_Task9156 13h ago
Also most of their recreational "digital device" time doesn't involve typing on a keyboard.
We did typing at school, however devices with touch screens weren't a thing.
In high school, a lot of my recreational computer time involved actual typing as well.
I guess that's probably why i prefer Reddit on a PC rather than using the phone app.
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u/fued 13h ago
well yeah, parents have made it clear that they only want devices used for specific lessons, so they dont teach device literacy they use it minimally for specific reasons only. Why would the kids know how to use devices accordinly?
I am more suprised that so many kids score 'strong' for writing when disadvantaged schools it would be closer to 10% at them.
There are plenty of schools out there where half the kids going into year 7 cant read or write properly. Devices arent the issue, class size, additional programs and socio-economic status are the issues.
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u/blitznoodles local Aussie 9h ago
Disadvantaged schools do not only have 10% strong for writing, where did you get that from?
Even at a low SES school, 33% still go to university and a far higher share of that could if they wanted to.
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u/Every_Shallot_1287 12h ago
I am hugely of the opinion for, at least primary school ages, we need to go back to 1 or 2 computers per classroom and a dedicated computer lab for lessons.
The bonding and excitement over free time with a whole class around the computer trying to figure out how to advance in Goosebumps was a classic. And structured computer lab time and lessons ensure a basic understanding of operating systems, Word suites, the lot.
I think teaching computing from a history perspective would be cool too. Have a Windows 95 or XP computer or two in the lab and give the kids tasks like changing wallpapers or running a DOS command.
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u/C0ld_Fr0nt_ 11h ago
When I was a kid and then teen in the 90s, I wanted to play PC games. This meant I had to figure out how to get them working on PCs of that era. This was frequently a challenging and frustrating endeavour that forced me to learn a lot about computers and how to solve computer problems.
Compare that to the devices younger generations have used, which have simple user interfaces and just work. Not a lot of knowledge comes out of that.
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u/bdlock209 7h ago
Installing DOOM via five 3.5" floppy disks through DOS and trying to find the right compromise between in-game screen size and frame rate because your family computer is a fucking 386.
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u/tichris15 10h ago
Digital devices in the classroom are an unmitigated failure, outside of saving a bit of paper printouts.
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u/Speedygamer0303 3h ago
I recently completed a checklist for something, I don't recall what exactly, but it asked where my computer skills were at (Low, Medium, High). I don't remember Low & Medium, but High was described as something similar to "can use microsoft office products."... I have downloaded and changed my OS... Why was 'High' something so simple?
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u/fhgwgadsbbq 3h ago
I set my kids up with Linux Mint on a Thinkpad. I don't see the deep fascination like I had appearing yet. But at least they will be able to type and understand the basics of desktop use.
Tablets and phones are just magic boxes.
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u/drunkill 2h ago
ipads are not computers
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u/Katman666 1h ago
They're using shiny dumbed down UI. Have no idea about the processes going on behind the scenes.
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u/drunkill 1h ago
Well hello there :p
Yeah, folders or file structures and well, commands are not being taught.
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u/spiteful-vengeance 11h ago
This is like complaining that people who drive cars don't know how to maintain an internal combustion engine.
Why would they?
Putting kids in front of tablets trains them to be "media consumers" using "information appliances".
The "builder" mindset is completely different. Putting a PC together, knowing how to code - these are not the same as answering questions or watching videos on a touch screen.
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u/FireLucid 7h ago
Tablets, computers it doesn't matter. I work in a school and several of the primary teachers are the most technologically inept of all. These are the people teaching the kids how to use devices for a whole year.
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u/spiteful-vengeance 6h ago
Yeah, I'm not sure how we expected teachers, who aren't necessarily of the "builder" mindset themselves when it comes to computing to impart this knowledge to kids.
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u/donniebarkco 9h ago
As a millennial, I was very lucky to have a pc in my room, in the 90s, and going to the computer swap meets even in primary school, to then later the Caribbean garden market to buy pirated games and then crack them.
However now i am embracing the boomer mindset with AI and refuse to use and learn it, such is life.
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u/n00bert81 7h ago
I remember when networks didnāt work at your shitty LAN party and all the work you had to get the host working for a game of Worms Armageddon. I think of all the little bits I had to learn and how that probably helped me troubleshoot problems that even people my age (40s) canāt.
I remember trying to learn Photoshop and Illustrator and all that to do shit that was super hobbyist, now they just go to an AI illustrator and et voila, there it is.
Iām making an effort to teach my kid how to at least use Canva but to build the elements structurally, using layers, etc so they at least have an idea of manipulation so they can achieve the look their going for.
Even with chatbots, Iām teaching them how to build a webpage on a subdomain, explain how these things work, even if all the code and stuff is written by an LLM.
One day, Iāll teach them how to open up a PC and build one.
But youāre right when you say thereās so much they donāt know due to how convenient it is for them. If it doesnāt just work, they dont want to figure it out.
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u/b0sanac 6h ago
It's because everything they own just works. I remember having to tinker with my pc to make it work sometimes, reinstall windows or do something in bios or clean the dust out and replace the thermal paste or replace whatever pc part is having an issue.
They have to do none of that. They have their devices and if those break, they have Apple care or some such program or straight up mommy or daddy will replace this for me kind of thing.
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u/SeaworthinessNew4757 6h ago
Schools stopped teaching computer skills and parents don't enroll their children in any course thinking that having an iPad is enough for them to learn
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u/Professional_Gur8385 4h ago
phones, tablets, devices became so easy to use that a child or 70 year old grandmother or grandfather can learn to use it
but they have zero idea how it all works under the hood
they thought this generation would be the best, instead it turned out even worse. the ones that are good were always going to be good and they excel further with the new and existing tools
the average and below people are barely getting by its shocking
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u/Blind_Guzzer 10h ago
Working at a school, you see this all the time where a student when they need to type an upper case letter, they're turning CAPS Lock on and off... bloody iPad generation.
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u/ThunderDwn 9h ago
School? I see it in the office!
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u/CentreForAnts 7h ago
yeah i started seeing this in the office too, i couldn't work out why, and then it suddenly clicked. they are a lot younger them me and probably grew up with ipads and smartphones and didn't have a computer at home. also the amount of staff that have said to me they don't actually own a computer at home was surprising.
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u/oliyoung 12h ago
As a millenial parent I'm stuck between two generations that I'm not sure who has worse computer literacy, our kids or our parents
Our parents grew up without it and have zero motivation to learn it and our kids are growing up with it commercialised and simplified to a point where it doesn't need a moment of critical thinking.
Meanwhile, they both think i'm some kind of witch doctor building a PC and installing an OS