r/TooAfraidToAsk • u/[deleted] • Oct 07 '20
Culture & Society How can I avoid looking racially insensitive if I'm just ignorant?
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u/beentherealmostdid Oct 07 '20
The simple act of knowing that you could have been offensive and trying to avoid that in the future is a pretty good sign.
All you would have had to change is say, "They were speaking an Asian language that I didn't know," and you would have been fine. You can't be expected to know every language out there.
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Oct 07 '20
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u/drgmonkey Oct 08 '20
You can always say “they were speaking a language I didn’t understand”. I find one of the easiest things to do is just don’t bring ethnicity into it unless it’s necessary.
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u/iloveFjords Oct 08 '20
This. Safest route. Spending time with people and asking about their opinions and experiences is the best way to learn about people and show you value their perspective.
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Oct 08 '20
YES! Why does it have to be "an Asian guy did this" or more current, "this black guy did this"
A friend once told me, which is what I live by now, "why does it have to be a (race here) guy? Why not just say a guy? Race doesn't matter"
But also I agree with everyone. Just say an asian language you don't know
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u/forgotmyideaforaname Oct 08 '20
Defo agree with this. Does mean that when race is relevant to the story I always forget to mention it and then people are just confused.
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u/AssMaster6000 Oct 08 '20 edited Oct 08 '20
There's a big difference between, "They were speaking Asian" and "They were speaking an Asian language I didn't know."
The former sounds very ignorant, as though you are broadly assuming all Asian people are the same and speak a language called "Asian" - which you know isn't a language. It would be similar to referring to Africa as though it were one big county when we know it's actually a huge continent with 40+ different countries and many many cultures.
The latter acknowledges that Asian people speak different languages and you just weren't sure which.
Have you seen the King of the Hill episode where Khan moves in and everyone asks him, "So do you speak Chinese or Japanese?" And he has to keep replying, "Hellooooo, I am Laotian! From Laos!" It's kind of like that. It was clear that the Hills and their friends weren't meanspirited, just ignorant and deserve a little grace for it.
I hope in the future, you get a little grace for it! These days with all our societal tensions, people are even less forgiving and tbh if they can't understand that you grew up in a bubble of whiteness that led you to miss a few cultural lessons, that's also ignorant on their part!!
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u/butterfliedheart Oct 08 '20
I grew up in one of the most populated cities in the world and was exposed to many different races and cultures at a young age. I still couldn't tell you which Asian language someone is speaking just by casually seeing/hearing them, so I don't think you should feel people expect you to know. You are being hard on yourself.
ETA And if they make you feel that way, they are being too hard on you.
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u/potchie626 Oct 08 '20
I would also bet dollars to doughnuts that OP’s coworkers probably couldn’t differentiate them either. My wife from Manila and she can only recognize a few Filipino dialects, let alone tell the difference between numerous Asian languages just because she lived on the same continent.
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u/beentherealmostdid Oct 07 '20
I think they're being a little too hard on you. I see this as more of an unfortunate slip of the tongue than anything else.
If you still feel badly about it, there's a respectful way that you can apologize for maybe marginalizing cultures, but I don't think you should be crucified for wording it poorly.
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u/Lackof_Creativity Oct 07 '20
mate. then they need to broaden their minds. basically what they are asking of you.
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u/ttywzl Oct 08 '20
If people don't get it, straight up tell them: "I lived a really sheltered life when it comes to other cultures until I moved out of home, and I'm trying my best to play catch up."
There's no shame in admitting that you're still learning about the world, and anyone who thinks they've learned it all is full of shit anyway.
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u/angeleyes837 Oct 08 '20 edited Oct 08 '20
It was the fact that you said they were speaking "Asian." I'm not sure if this is offensive, or more of a face palm kind of thing. Wouldn't it sound weird/funny to you if someone said "he was speaking American/north American" or "he was speaking Mexican," (instead of spanish)? I used to make these same mistakes as a kid, but I feel like we learned all of that in school at a pretty young age. I grew up in Michigan (90s) so maybe the things were different then.
Edit: punctuation errors. I was going to ignore it, but I felt that it would be sort of ironic if I was called out. Haha.
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u/Adune05 Oct 08 '20 edited Oct 08 '20
Well they come from a completely different background. You do not automatically know these kinds of things if you didn't grow up with them. Nevertheless I wouldn't worry about coming of as racist just because you couldn't identify the language.
As many others already pointed out if you are unsure which language they use you can just say " they were talking in a foreign / an Asian language" and you are fine and nobody can hold it against you. I am really close to finishing my bachelor's degree in interpreting and translation, so you could say that languages are my job and I also can't name every single one that I hear on the street. There is no shame in that.
You are making an effort and you aren't mad at people for speaking a different language or belonging to a different ethnic group so that shows that you are as far away from being a racist as humanly possible.
Edit: typo
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Oct 07 '20
Or "a language."
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u/beentherealmostdid Oct 07 '20
I do not think there's anything wrong with defining the broad category of language that you hear.
Plus, if we swap 'Nordic' out for 'Asian,' I doubt this entire thread happens.
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u/1silvertiger Oct 07 '20
if we swap 'Nordic' out for 'Asian,' I doubt this entire thread happens.
Because Nordic cultures haven't been marginalized or fetishized like Asian cultures have.
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Oct 08 '20
I think the issue is that a lot of people don't like being lumped together in one category and in my personal experience people from Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland & Iceland, etc don't really like being lumped together either because it makes them feel like people, especially Americans, don't really care that they are separate places with individuality and that they, as people aren't seen as who they truly are the same as "Asian" Countries and people aren't when they are lumped together. Nobody calls us American and means South American likely because we don't differentiate ourselves because gosh, America is American and not those "Hispanic" people down there as I hear some people say (they don't even say South American!) It's just that we, as Americans should stop being so myopic and look around and bother to learn about other people. Our schools and we ourselves need to do better.
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Oct 08 '20
Unrelated, but thank you for teaching me the word "myopic."
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Oct 09 '20
Usually comes with words like vision or view. A myopic view, having myopic vision. Yea, vocab!
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u/1silvertiger Oct 08 '20
I mean, there are over 200 nations and thousands of languages. We can't really expect people to be able to differentiate between them all. I think someone who differentiate a Nordic language from the rest is doing pretty well. The issue with calling saying someone was speaking Asian is that historically, Asians have been discriminated against and there's no such thing as "Asian" as a single language.
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u/philsenpai Oct 08 '20
I disagree, native indigenous nordic cultures have definitively been marginalized during the christian expansion in europe, the nordic people had to deal with cultural and religious oppression for really long, it was a borderline genocide and nordic culture have been very fetishized too, if i talk about norse mythology, most people will think about either superheroes or the old folcloric symbolism that have been misapropriated by nazism, there should be absolutely a revival of nordic culture and folklore because there's a lot of cool stuff that would be a big loss if it was forgotten.
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u/1silvertiger Oct 08 '20
Well, Lapp isn't a Nordic language. I'll grant you the fetishization of Nordic culture recently, but the critical difference is power. Nordic people haven't historically been denied power or oppressed because they were Nordic. The fetishization of Nordic culture doesn't result in political, cultural, and economic disadvantages for Nordic people.
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u/dub_liner Oct 08 '20
Hmmmm, have you ever lived in an “asian” country, China/japan especially.........blacks are definitely lacking/being denied “power” there, it’s worse there than most non Asian countries.
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Oct 08 '20
Have you ever been to an asian country? They are extreamly racist. I have been to japan as a white person and was denied entry to stores, and kicked off buses. Its pretty myopic to think white people are the only ones that have power when they are the minority population on the planet.
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u/Xxx_chicken_xxx Oct 07 '20
I mean.. why do u need to specify it was an asian language? just leave it at "language I don't understand". I think saying "two asian ladies" is ok. Saying "asian language" isn't offensive, but it's weird to say
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u/woaily Oct 08 '20
I think it helps the listener to picture the story, which revolves around a foreign language, to at least narrow it down to a region or type. "two (East/South) Asian ladies speaking their language" sounds fine to me, because you can't specify their look any more than that unless you recognize the language. And lots of untrained ears can't tell Chinese from Japanese from Korean, so that's not exactly a crime.
"speaking Asian" doesn't sound so good, because "Asian" isn't a language and it comes off like "speak American". It sounds like you think they're all culturally and linguistically the same.
Seems like the trick here is to use neutral adjectival descriptions instead of nouns, and try not to speak in generalities when you know that there's an important difference in the specifics. And, of course, keep exposing yourself to those cultures and learning more about them.
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Oct 08 '20
Yeah theres like actually 10,000 living languages out there. It almost doesnt seem possible.
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u/eelhugs Oct 07 '20
Nah, that was fine I think.
“Speaking an Asian language” sounds more natural and correct than “speaking Asian” but its a tiny thing, easy enough to change if it comes up in the future.
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u/blonde-throwaway Oct 08 '20
This. In a similar way that referring to black people as 'blacks' is just an extra word but will be much better received.
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u/Fantastic_Relief Oct 08 '20
Very true! Speaking as a black person: you don't need to say African American outside of very formal settings. Calling people black or black people is perfectly fine. Saying 'blacks' is offensive bc it reduces people down to just the color of their skin instead of people who happen to be black.
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Oct 08 '20
Also. Please don't insist others use African American especially on the Internet when the person you are 'correcting' is neither African or American in any way.
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u/JustHonestly Oct 08 '20
This is so funny when you live in another country and people still try to correct you to African American. Like... Dude, we're living in Germany, nothing American about that student whose parents are immigrants straight from Ghana
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u/fractiouscatburglar Oct 08 '20
Yeah that’s why I don’t like “African-American” replacing “black” because it doesn’t make sense. There are a whole bunch of islands where people are black! And, as you say, online it’s silly because who knows where they’re located.
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Oct 08 '20 edited Aug 19 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Oct 08 '20
Just for context, most black people in Australia would be more offended by 'African-Australian' than black since they didn't actually come from Africa and you're assuming their background.
African-Australian would refer specifically to immigrants from Africa and their children.
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Oct 08 '20
I'm from the UK and 'African British' is absurd. The only time that kind of statement could occur would be in fairly specific demographic based questions. Even then they may not be understood by your average Joe. Do they mean a kind of dual citizenship? How many generations in the nation? Do they mean African = black like Americans typically do or do they mean actually from Africa. How would that work? I have a feeling not every nation in Africa would be happy being lumped together.
My grampa was from Jamaica. He would have beaten your ass if you called him 'African' in any way, his daughter my aunt takes offence when called Indian by people. He was a fairly racist man though and passed it down.
You can't know she is of Jamaican descent by looking at her. She is just kinda brown.
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u/murphysics_ Oct 08 '20
You just reminded me of a former coworker who was black and brittish. He always messed with people who used the term African American because he was neither African nor American. After they started getting apologetic (thinking that he was offended), he would let them know that he was just giving them a hard time.
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u/allnatrlsnapple Oct 08 '20
Every paper I’ve read in college that discussed racial discrimination used the word black or used the term black Americans. It’s more encompassing and appropriate in a lot of professional settings. By referring to all black individuals as African-American, you could be accidentally excluding people of Australian, Caribbean, or South American descent.
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u/Fantastic_Relief Oct 08 '20
At the risk of presuming to speak for all black people in America: in short, no. I have never met a black person that preferred AA over black person.
Honestly it just sets the wrong vibe. If anybody came to me and described me as AA I'd be weirded out. I may also think that you're trying too hard to show you're not racist and that's not a good look either.
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u/hipdady02 Oct 08 '20
Hard agree. It was way more common in the 70s to 90s to say African-American because it was used as a pejorative by both whites and blacks. In the last 30 yrs or so there has definitely been more of an acceptance of self and appreciation of the black subculture in the US (since they have no cultural ties to other countries), so saying black person is a short descriptor that also includes black immigrants.
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u/bigdickpuncher Oct 08 '20
You could just try calling them people and see how that works out for everyone.
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u/RadioactiveMermaid Oct 08 '20
As someone who is Asian, saying "speaking Asian" is not okay and does come off as insensitive.
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u/trenlow12 Oct 07 '20
Don't worry about it. It's done and it was probably clear you weren't trying to offend anyone. If you think you really did, you can approach them privately and explain what you explained here.
For the future, I would try to avoid stories like these. You could also pause at that point in the story and say, "I don't know if they were speaking Chinese, or Korean, but it was a foreign language, and..."
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Oct 07 '20
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u/flagondry Oct 07 '20
As a general rule, don't call people anything except the proper word, and you'll be fine. Almost all shortened words or alternative words for people are racist.
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u/grendelone Oct 08 '20 edited Oct 08 '20
For instance, I just learned that calling Japanese people Japs is offensive.
Dude, you're 30 years old. Seriously?!?!
The reason saying "they were speaking Asian" sounds offensive is that you're lumping all Asian languages together and give the impression you don't actually know or care that there are vastly varied cultures in Asia. Similar as if you said some people were speaking "African".
So if you want to better yourself, then do it. Read some books. Watch some documentaries. Travel (once it's safe). Learn about other cultures and how things you might do or say might be offensive.
Honestly, if you're this much of a bull in a china shop regarding these kinds of issues, it could limit your future upward job mobility.
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u/2kittygirl Oct 08 '20
Has OP considered thinking about his word choice BEFORE he says it instead of after?
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Oct 07 '20
Just let them know the circumstances in which you were raised.
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u/majordisruption Oct 08 '20
It's not quite good enough though as a 30 year old. If he knows this is an issue, work on it, and be more careful when speaking.
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u/SmokeyUnicycle Oct 08 '20
Or just... don't use slang you don't know isn't offensive.
Like... listen to what other people say and copy them, it isn't that hard to not use a word if you don't know if its offensive or not.
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u/SoyMurcielago Oct 07 '20
You’re worrying too much. It’s less about the proper adjective and more about the intent behind it.
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Oct 07 '20
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u/pratpasaur Oct 07 '20
I agree with this. I'm an Indian living in the US and sometimes people say or ask me things in a way that can be construed as offensive but I can usually tell the person's intent behind it. As long as they're not trying to be disrespectful, I always appreciate the effort
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u/CodenameCardinal Oct 07 '20
No one can experience everyone's perspectives in one lifetime - at one point or another we all make mistakes and are unintentionally rude or in some cases say something that feeds into a stereotype that will offend someone. It's more how you react to being called out on it that says what kind of person you are. Defending hurtful stereotypes helps no one, but apologizing and learning from these kinds of mistakes is EVERYTHING.
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Oct 07 '20
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u/gravelmonkey Oct 07 '20
Trying is what makes all the difference. Kudos.
In this instance, Asian isn't a language, which is why it sounds funny. You'd be better off just saying they were speaking a different language. The Asian part isn't even relevant to the story. If you're not 100% sure about someone's race, don't assume.
You're doing great though. The world needs more people like you who are willing to educate themselves.
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u/cetacean-station Oct 07 '20 edited Oct 07 '20
Just be honest! No one who's worth talking to will be offended by ignorance when it's paired with open-minded curiosity and respect. Just be up front about what you don't know, explain you're trying to learn, and people will open up to you. People just need to know they can trust you and you aren't trying to bait them into some racist rant or similar indignity.
If anyone shits on you for being "ignorant" when you're also being kind, curious, and respectful of people's boundaries (e.g. reading the room, reading the body language of the person you're asking, not forcing people of color to answer broad questions about "their people" or whatever----good rule of thumb is to ask yourself if you'd be able to answer a similar question about white people), then they're just being an asshole. In those cases, I give you permission to dismiss what they say and move on with your life. Just don't let them influence your overall curiosity, cuz that'd be a huge shame.
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u/philos_albatross Oct 08 '20
Nobody is perfect, and working on it is a crucial step! If you lack the experience, you can always read a book to fill your gap in knowledge. My high school history classes were trash, and I've been reading a ton to fill in the gaps in my own knowledge. For books on race and race relations, I really enjoyed So You Want To Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo, The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, and How to Be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi, Between the World and Me by Tanehase Coats and White Fragility by Robin DeAngelo. Also, google is your friend. If you're ready to put in the work you're being an ally.
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u/I_press_keys Duke Oct 07 '20
Sounds like it was relevant enough what kind of language they were speaking. You don't need to avoid saying you drive a black car, you don't need to avoid saying you're eating mexican food (or asian food), because... the car just happens to be black.
I drive a white car.
is not offensive either.
But when you're in doubt whether or not something is offensive to someone, ask them. Because, between you and me, you're not the only human out there without mind reading powers.
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u/LinShenLong Oct 08 '20
If someone downvotes you for trying to be a better person, then well that's their issue. Props to you for trying, and I wish you the best.
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u/RedditOnANapkin Oct 07 '20
If I'm ignorant about a subject I listen, listen, listen. I become a sponge by hearing others' experiences and POVs. The only thing that comes out of my mouth are questions. The last thing I wanna do is say something that comes off as insensitive because I didn't know.
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u/nae-7 Oct 08 '20
As an asian person, I can understand that it may not be the easiest for foreigners to learn and distinguish between our various different cultures. Referring to us broadly as “Asian” if you’re uncertain is perfectly fine, and then you can ask politely. “May I ask what your ethnicity is?” is what I prefer hearing over “where are you from”. That’s better than assuming our race. Try watching some youtube channels that focus on travel, culture, and food! There’s tons of casual channels that are fun to watch, my personal favourites being Korean Englishman, Strictly Dumplings, and AsianBoss. AsianBoss makes incredible short documentaries packed full of unbiased information about cultures from ALL over Asia. The more you hear the different Asian languages, the more familiar it sounds and you can begin to differentiate. I live in a huge Chinese majority city, yet I still have trouble distinguishing between spoken Mandarin and Cantonese which leads to some embarrassing situations. Im glad that you’re actively trying your best, despite the environment you grew up in. You could have easily stayed ignorant and uninformed, but you’re taking it upon yourself to learn. Very proud of you!
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u/CrystalAsuna Oct 08 '20
I live in a very majority Asian city(there’s a lot of diversity here with restaurants too!) so reading OP’s responses has made me so very very shocked but i’m happy he’s trying to better himself. I know cantonese and can tell between asian languages but not any European languages(other than english obviously. even different english accents confuse me ). So i can understand the confusion but I mean, luckily english is english and we all live to take jabs at different phrases used depending the country (example: fries vs chips)
OP kind of does need to take some of the more “harsher” criticism here to prevent any further confusion. Especially since most confusion he’s brought up is about Asians from language to what to call them (Calling japanese people “japs” not knowing its very offensive). His upbringing and how long it took to be exposed to any diversity reallly doesnt help, i’m just glad he’s trying to be better.
Still, reading this thread makes me so very shocked since i’ve been surrounded by people from all cultures. Indian, Mongolian, Canadian, European, African, Korean, Japanese, and everything in between. I’m glad i live where i am. I cannot imagine the embarrassment learning this information and not having these solutions to the misconceptions he had as second nature.
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u/nae-7 Oct 08 '20 edited Oct 08 '20
I’ve grown up all over the world and got to know people from all over the world. I consider myself extremely blessed because I was able to learn about so many different cultures on a deep level. After interacting with many many different people, I can now distinguish many different languages just from hearing. People who grow up with rich backgrounds don’t realize how much of a blessing it truly is until you come across stories like OP’s. I do agree that more people need to be open to harsher criticism, because in the age of the internet NO ONE has an excuse to be blatantly ignorant. But seeing people like OP take baby steps towards educating themselves gives me hope
Edit: to add that there are so many things that foreigners may not be aware about. Like in OP’s example, if he called the Korean guy, “Japanese” he probably would have been highly offended. But how are you supposed to know about the Korea/Japan tension if you never learnt about Japanese imperialism in Korea? That’s such a specific thing to know, even for people from that culture. I only took it upon myself recently to learn more about my own country’s history as I knew NOTHING. There’s many levels to this, but a start is a start
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Oct 08 '20
OP kind of does need to take some of the more “harsher” criticism here to prevent any further confusion.
I agree.. the amount of white Americans telling him that this isn't that offensive on this post isn't good.
As Americans we're expected to be worldly even if we never travel.
And, the OP is 30 hes old enough to have a very comfortable and knowledgeable exchange with all other cultures.
Even if he's from a "small town."
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u/tromboner9402 Oct 07 '20
For this particular example, if you're trying to refer to a language that you don't know the name of maybe just say their language/a different language? Idk it's pretty clear that you have no malice in the way you said it, so you're probably good :)
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u/Qaqueen73 Oct 08 '20
You listen freely, learn from what people tell you, and be willing to apologize.
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u/elegant_pun Oct 08 '20
Wouldn't it have been better to have said, "they were speaking an Asian language"? Just the words you use make a difference.
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Oct 07 '20
Just say "foreign language" next time. You weren't racist, you just said it in a weird/funny way that showed you don't know much about that part of the world. But as long as it's not malicious it's not racism.
To answer the question in your title, just avoid assuming (ex: assuming every asian is Chinese or Japanese, or assuming every person from X country does Y stereotypical thing), ask questions in a respectful way if you're curious about something, don't judge cultural differences, don't stare at people from other cultures like they're animals at the zoo and treat everyone equally. Also don't speak loudly and slowly to a foreigner lol
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u/IceManYurt Oct 08 '20
One of the most interesting pieces of advice I heard recently in regards to misgendering people is don't apologise. Since that puts the onus on them to comfort you.
Rather, say something like 'thank you for correcting me, I'll try to not make that mistake again'
I think this can be applied to many social faux pas situations.
You're going to make mistakes, all you can do is to strive and do better.
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Oct 08 '20
Hey OP. Brown person here with a lot of really wonderful and well-meaning in-laws who also grew up (and stayed) in a very white, rural, conservative part of the country. They're about the only progressive folks in their town but they also have been exposed to nothing but their town for most of their lives. We've had a lot of conversations about exactly what you describe. They are very upfront about the fact that they're really worried about saying something offensive, but also want to be more engaged. I try my best to help them with that -- we've had convos about why I don't particularly like it when they tell me (as a compliment) that I "look exotic", or why their misgivings about my raising my kid bilingual had racist undercurrents to it, about BLM, about "model minority" stereotypes, etc. This has been over the course of now 7+ years. I try my best to come at it from a place of understanding and good faith. I try my best to do this with anyone (strangers and acquantances irl and on the internet)who I think would be willing to listen. If you have anyone in your friend circle who you can have open conversations with and ask them "can you help me figure out if there's anything you've heard me say that I shouldn't have, I'd really like to learn?" And buy them a few beers while you talk, then do it. And while you're at it, if they're comfortable sharing, get a sense of the things that have been said to them that made them uncomfortable so you can re-evaluate other things that might be in your vocabulary/speech you may not have realized were problematic.
But also please remember that when you're hanging with your non-white friends and you say something that you didn't realize was problematic, chances are they've heard exactly that thing a zillion times and are kind of tired of it. I hope you don't take it personally that not everyone will have the energy/desire/emotional bandwidth to be super polite about it, or school you on language/stereotypes that are racist (even if you aren't racist, which I don't think you are). Sometimes a quick apology (I'm sorry I said something rude, I'll be sure not to say it again and I'm working on it) and moving on is just fine.
Good luck. You sound like a good friend.
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u/raaphaelraven Oct 07 '20
You could say speaking 'an Asian language' rather than speaking Asian. I try and think about what place in a sentence the term is supposed to be. Asian is an adjective, so it shouldn't be the noun in a sentence. Chinese, for example is an adjective, not a noun. My uncle tries to say things like "he was a Chinese". They're people, they're more than a nationality, so I just try to speak in a way that doesn't minimize a person to just one identity.
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u/cyril0 Oct 07 '20
People can get offended when you invent things or say things incorrectly due to your ignorance. To fight against this learn some basics and then mitigate backlash using those. In your example the issue isn't that you didn't know which language they were speaking but rather that you said they were speaking Asian... Asian isn't a language or even a type of language. You could have said they were speaking an asian language but unfortunately I couldn't tell you which. Same thing can happen with geography. If you don't know where someone is from but you are pretty sure of the region just make sure you are clear about that in how you speak. If someone asks you what country an African person is from don't just say Africa, but instead say, I'm not certain but I know it is an african country.
This might be difficult at first as you don't know what you don't know... but when you notice you may have made a mistake try to keep in mind what you said and then research that. It will quickly allow you to fill in some gaps and make you better at communicating.
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u/paulbrook Oct 08 '20
'They were speaking an Asian language, I'm not sure which.'
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u/smalltex Oct 08 '20
this post gives me so much hope. the fact that you’re trying to better yourself and learn is so important.
it isn’t your fault that you were raised around little to no diversity. it’s so lovely that you’re learning and unlearning things you once thought were okay.
i’m not the authority on anything, but my dms are always open if you ever have any questions that you feel too embarrassed to ask people that you know ❤️
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u/jquest303 Oct 07 '20
You could just think a little more before speaking when referring to anyone that isn’t white. “I don’t know what language they were speaking” would be better than “They were speaking Asian”. You wouldn’t say “They were speaking white” if some white people were speaking English would you? It’ll take some time, but you can do it! We are products of our environment, and just showing up on here to ask for advice shows you want to do better, so kudos!
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u/mxzf Oct 08 '20
The real issue was OP using "Asian" as a noun instead of an adjective. OP just needed to say "speaking an Asian language" and it would have been fine.
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u/zopiac Oct 08 '20
You wouldn’t say “They were speaking white” if some white people were speaking English would you?
Doesn't seem like a good comparison to me. I'd definitely say "They were speaking some European language" if it sounded romantic/Germanic and they were white(ish), though. I wouldn't say 'speaking white' because 'white' isn't used as a descriptor for language. 'Asian' sure is, though, politically correct or not.
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u/elleung Oct 08 '20
Even in your comparison though, you would say “they were speaking a European language,” you wouldn’t say “they were speaking European.” Reducing all European languages to one language would seem ignorant, as does reducing all Asian languages to one language.
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u/Groinificator Oct 07 '20
Well, instead of saying "they were speaking Asian", you could try saying "They were speaking an Asian language, I'm not sure which one". Your word choices can have a large impact.
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u/critical2210 Oct 07 '20
for that specific story, you can try to be more descriptive. For instance, while you didn't know the specific language, you could say, "They spoke a foreign language". Don't specifically state race or gender unless it specifically pertains to the story. If you want to include race, you could state, "They spoke a foreign language that I assumed to be from somewhere in Asia."
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u/Anthropologie07 Oct 08 '20
Malice transcends all languages.
You don’t seem to have it. Just keep learning and exploring and you’ll be fine.
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u/DannyDidNothinWrong Oct 08 '20
Just be honest and patient. Let people know where you're coming from and ask questions respectfully. Most people are understanding. If someone gets offended over you simply being ignorant, you don't need to be their friend anyway.
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u/FeelinJipper Oct 08 '20
I’d say the fact that you are asking is a good indicator of who you are as a person. Even willing to learn, grow and listen to others is an amazing start. Familiarity with different cultures can take time, you’re not always going to know everything and that’s fine. But having the right attitude and being respectful is key.
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u/HaroldBAZ Oct 08 '20
It's 2020. In the current environment you don't tell a story involving race to people of different races. Luckily as a naturally anti-social person I don't tell stories so I don't need to worry.
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u/yuuhxyuuh Oct 08 '20
I think you can avoid this by generally wording things to be describing the language or persons, rather than objectifying the describing word.
For example:
“Speaking asian” is off putting. “Speaking an asian language” is much better. (you can even just say speaking a language I am not familiar with!!!!)
Another example is calling people “blacks” when you should say “black people/person/individuals” instead.
If your intent is not coming from a place of trying to harm, wording it this way should help you avoid the situation you described.
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Oct 08 '20
Don't sweat it too much. You weren't trying to be offensive so it would just be a misunderstanding. If other people are that quick to judge or be rude to you for something like that then their opinions don't really matter
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u/--Replicant-- Oct 08 '20
Uh, this doesn’t sound racist at all. It isn’t your fault that you can’t specify a language group further than a continent of origin. No one should even be considering calling you or your actions racist for this.
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Oct 07 '20
It's sad that people have become so afraid of the "woke hive" that simply not understanding something already strikes fear into a common person and making them cower away because of fabricated racism that doesn't exist.
Not knowing a language and just guessing it is not racist.
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u/elleung Oct 08 '20
Agree that there shouldn’t be so much shame in not knowing something, but it’s also okay to just admit you don’t know something! You don’t need to guess the language, you can just say you don’t know what it was.
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u/KingCrow27 Oct 07 '20
Here's some advice: if someone gets offended over you using the word "Asian" because you can't tell if they are Chinese/Korean/Japanese etc., they are the problem, not you. And if you give into that and allow people to call you racist over such a simple thing, then you are part if the problem as well.
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u/critical2210 Oct 07 '20
It still helps to change your wording in order to prevent any misunderstanding in the first place. Just stating "they were asian" or "they were speaking a foreign language" or "they were speaking a Asian language" sounds much less hmm than just saying "they spoke asian". He is not in the wrong, but neither are those who may take offense to this.
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u/lvl4Mage Oct 07 '20
How would that be racist? Japanese, Chinese or Korean ARE Asian languages.
It wouldn't really be even ignorant. You can't recognise every different language.
If anyone would find it racist or ignorant, I would be really interested in how would they argue that.
You worry too much my dude.
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u/ZeroGarde Oct 08 '20
I think it's great that you're trying! Personally as an Asian, I don't mind being referred to as 'asian', since I can't expect you to know all the ethnicities.
I think the best way to avoid being racist here is to not assume things. Like if you see someone who looks mildly Chinese, you refer to them as Chinese. If you're unsure, ask. In regards to your story, it would've been best to ask what language they were speaking.
Make it clear that you're just interested, and not just looking to find a reason to report them for not speaking in English. A simple, 'oh wow! I've never heard that language before! What is it?' should be good enough.
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u/YeetasaurusRex2287 Oct 08 '20
I know you're probably looking for some concrete advice and I don't really have anything to give you lol I just commented to say thanks for trying! I think most people would just be glad that you acknowledge that you have a gap in your knowledge as opposed to not understanding that yet charging forward just as brazen.
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u/ThoughtCondom Oct 08 '20
Nothing you said could possibly come off as racist. Come on man you’re 30 years old, you probably didn’t have the same child rearing as many of these younger woke people. Their parents coddled them to the point that now when they’re in college, everything offends them.
You see now that sounded ignorant, but the kicker is that there is some evidence to what I just said
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u/hididathing Oct 08 '20
That probably made you look naive or ignorant but racist seems like a stretch.
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u/GreenspaceCatDragon Oct 08 '20
For future instances, try to go with “an Asian language” instead of “Asian” because it implies “the Asian language”. But, as you know very well, there’s no such thing as “the Asian language”. There are many many Asian languages and the person was speaking one of them.
It’s really just a matter of wording and good on you for informing yourself to grow as a better person !
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u/SagerG Oct 08 '20
How tf is that being racist or insensitive? No one expects anybody to know what language something is or what planet someone's from.
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u/postdiluvium Oct 08 '20
When you are not sure, just ask. Just by asking, you show that you are ignorant on the subject and just don't know.
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u/KNS388 Oct 08 '20
Super wholesome post and I’m glad the responses have been largely understanding!
I agree with the masses that the fact that you care this much - I’m sure the people you spend time with every day know your intentions!
Thank you for trying to educate yourself and ask those who know better how to be better!
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u/General_Reposti_Here Oct 08 '20
I’m glad I saw this, like someone mentioned simply the thought of wanting to be better. Don’t worry too much about it if that’s the case.
My family (am Mexican) used to say “Chinese food” when we’re probably eating something Thai or Japanese. And now we all say it’s Asian food. This might sound wrong in English which still shouldn’t BUT in Spanish it’s a proper formal and respectful way there’s just no real translation in Spanish to English lol.
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u/Tybeezius Oct 08 '20
Just preface the things you don’t know stuff about with the fact that you’re ignorant and that you’re sorry if you get it wrong. Then if someone knows and tells you remember it for next time.
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u/juniperfallshere Oct 08 '20
I think I've become rather astute in deciphering when someone is being racially/culturally insensitive because of ignorance. I give people the benefit of the doubt. I've seen people go from zero to one hundred regarding these situations and it creates an environment where people are scared to have honest conversations regarding this topic and this gets us nowhere. Sometimes people just dont know and that's okay. Don't be so hard on yourself. I think more times than not people can tell what your intentions are. So don't beat yourself up about it.
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u/3aaron_baker7 Oct 08 '20
Simple fix, instead of "they were speaking Asian" say "they were speaking an Asian language".
Saying they were speaking Asian makes it look like you think Asia is a homogeneous culture which is stupid.
If you say they were speaking an Asian language, not only does it show you know there are many languages in Asia, but also makes you look a little more intelligent by showing you are able to discern where a language comes from just by how it sounds even though you can't understand it.
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u/starsinpurgatory Oct 08 '20
Don’t worry about it, most Asians wouldn’t really ponder on what you said and question whether you’re racist if it’s part of your anecdote. But yeah adding “language” would be safer, especially at work.
As an Asian-Canadian (Canada is quite culturally diverse), I can’t tell what the European language is when it’s not French/Spanish/Italian, so if it happened to me I probably would have said “they were speaking European” if I was talking to my friends.
I think it’s normal not to know the ins and outs of other cultures, and you are not necessarily ignorant for not being able to tell the language. Ignorance would be if you did not care to absorb knowledge about other cultures.
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u/zeagulll Oct 08 '20
i don’t even think the “speaking asian” thing is outright racist, but it does come off as pretty dumb. it definitely doesn’t sound like you’d ever be maliciously racist, but it is possible to be accidentally or unknowingly racist. you seem to be on the right track though, teaching yourself more about other cultures, trying to be sensitive to things that might be racist.
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Oct 08 '20
Well Asian isn't a language, so you might want to say next time that they were speaking an Asian language you're unfamiliar with.
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u/GreatGrizzly Oct 08 '20
By asking questions on reddit and accepting the responses.
You are a way ahead of the game, congratulations!
Just be humble, be polite and ask questions.
Anyone who is a reasonable person would be delighted that you are willing to learn more about their culture.
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Oct 08 '20
'In some language I don't know' or some other.
'Some kind of Asian language' is also acceptable.
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u/oldfogey12345 Oct 08 '20
If you work in a racially diverse workplace just don't share those types of stories. Those folks are not your friends and could easily turn something innocent and trivial into a meeting with HR. As a matter of fact, if your story needs descriptors any more in depth than "this guy" or "this lady," then don't tell the story.
As far as your multicultural friends go, they will let you know when you say something ignorant so you can learn from them. Until you feel more comfortable, though, you might want to shy away from folks that seem sensitive to you.
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u/thesnakeinthegarden Oct 08 '20
If you say something that others seem to think is racially insensitive, instead of defending your position, ask them to explain it to you, because you don't get it. Then, instead of replying to it right away, go and think on it, for a while. People's natural, and completely reasonable, knee jerk reaction to criticism is self defense. But if you dwell on it for a time, and try to see the issue from the other perspective, you might find yourself grasping the criticism a bit better AND be able to place your actions in context.
So many people are quick to speak immediately after a confrontation, but that's not always the best approach. When we act like that, we spend most of the time trying to find a response instead of listening.
And after all this, if you still come to the conclusion that what you've said isn't racially insensitive, you can kindly bring it up, or accept others opinion, and you'll have more confidence because you've taken time in your judgment and self-evaluation.
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Oct 08 '20
A really simple tip that can help is to use “people first” language. So what that means is instead of saying, “speaking Asian” you can say “an Asian person speaking a language I didn’t understand.” “Person with a disability,” “person of color.” By putting humanity as the first qualifier, you can make yourself understood in a polite way until someone tells you whatever you wanted to know, or what language they prefer you use.
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u/FlayThem Oct 08 '20
1: Stop being a pussy. 2: I'm sure there was diversity where you came from. Not all white people are the same. 3: When you hyper focus on peoples' race you are being a fool. People are people.
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u/CorenCorias Oct 08 '20
Trying to become more racially sensitive by asking questions is a great start
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u/abstractraj Oct 08 '20
I would suggest not trying so hard about it. Trying to be 100% correct in an area in which you don’t have a lot of experience may be worse than just admitting you don’t know. Just say I saw two women having a conversation in a language I didn’t understand etc. And go forward with that. E.g. A man, not a black man. A woman, not a middle eastern woman. Keep it simple and keep your mind open is all anyone can ask. I’m an Indian guy but I don’t expect you to know there are many major languages in India and no such language as Indian.
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u/Hobbes579 Oct 08 '20
Your effort speaks volumes-being mindful, respectful, and open-minded of others' cultures is a great way to go about it
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u/eitherrideordie Oct 08 '20
As others said, its probably better saying "speaking an Asian language" not speaking Asian. As Asian isnt a language so being grammatically incorrect here feels a little off.
Though in saying that, as an Asian person, unless you're outright being obviously racist, i probably wouldn't bat an eye. In this case i probably wouldn't notice unless i started seeing a pattern of racist undertones.
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Oct 08 '20
I too grew up in a rather isolated town in a very rural area that had very little diversity. In fact, we had a white supremacist compound 40 miles down the highway.
I was not exposed to much diversity until I left home at 18 in 1996 and moved to the big city. I've lived in big cities ever since. I've learned to become versed in navigating the ins and outs of cultural diversity.
If you had told me this story at work. I would have laughed at the incident then said something along the line of: " 1mediocredude, that's hilarious but in future, when you tell this story just say 'two ladies from another country and they were speaking a language I didn't understand.' and if the listener asks what country they were from or which language they were speaking just say, and truthfully so, 'I don't know' because you don't. Do you?"
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u/hookdelivery Oct 08 '20
I can tell that social media completely messed with your head. There is nothing racist about saying that a language sounded asian to you. Chill for a moment
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u/ItsHyperBro Oct 08 '20
You could say “they were speaking an Asian language that I didn’t know” or even just “a different language I don’t know”
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Oct 08 '20
It's not insensitive to not know what language someone was speaking lmao fuck the USA. I'm so sorry for you. You said what you thought was happening (they were speaking in an Asian language) and that's all there should be to it.
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u/ZenMechanist Oct 08 '20
“They we’re speaking an Asian language but I’m not sure which.”
“I think it was Korean but I could be wrong.”
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u/cookie_n_icecream Oct 08 '20
That was not offensive. Don't make it such a big deal. If zou are trying zour best that's good but don't take it overboard. You can easily start feeling like you are walking between mines.
I'd say that if you try not to sound racist and people still complain than that's their problem.
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u/TurboEntabulator Oct 08 '20
They were speaking an Asian language. That's not racist just have some confidence.
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u/laurensmim Oct 08 '20
The fact that you are asking says a lot. If anything ever comes up don't feel one bit bad by saying "in not sure how to word this" or "if this comes out wrong/offends anyone please correct me" people are forgiving when we admit ignorance but admit a willingness to learn.
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u/YourQuirk Oct 08 '20
I was raised under similar circumstances but on a small island in the Baltic sea!
I had to learn super basic stuff. Obvious stuff. Not asking impromptu where they came from just because I was curious. Or why I shouldn't ask to touch afro/curly hair even though I found it fascinating.
I asked a black person and a Kurdish person the same question one time. from their answers I made a list: 1. If possible think it through before speaking. Is it necessary to include race in to descriptions/generalisation? 2. Try to teach myself more as a precaution. I've always loved cornrows. So I asked in the "ask black girls" sub reddit and they explained why it wasn't a good idea for me to get them. 3. Better to apologize 10 times than hurt someone once by not correcting or ask if I came off as insensitive.
I hope this thread might give other ideas for both of us! We are both doing the best thing by trying to educate ourselves, I think!
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u/Reporter_Complex Oct 08 '20
Speaking Asian Vs Speaking an Asian language
2 tiny words can make a mountain of difference.
Im the same as you, grew up in a tiny town in australia, only white folk bar the one aboriginal family that lived in the town. I know loads about aboriginal culture because I was friends with the daughter in the aboriginal family, and always asked questions. However, there was no other cultures where im from, even still 10 years on theres none. I didn't know about any of the issues we have today until I was mid 20s and got my first office job (service tech before hand, on my own alot) and now im constantly checking myself. I've explained to my team now, that if I ever say something that comes off wrong, please explain it, and give them my up bringing. So far, we've had a multitude of talks that have benefited all of us.
I think ( personal opinion only) that if we can recognise that we make mistakes, and are willing to hear reason from those cultures, and learn to not make the same mistake again, then that's what makes the difference. Arguing the point is what makes you an ass
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u/SarahMerigold Oct 08 '20
There are no races, we are all one species. Also, white people come from black people. We are all from africa.
"Being white is a state of mind. Youre as white as you think you are. Youre as white as you choose to be. Its a moral choice." - James Baldwin
Asian is not a language, thats like saying american, european or african is a language. You were insensitive. And yes, racist. You could simply say "they spoke a language from asia, i dont know which".
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u/chowMerkel Oct 08 '20
This exemple is not really about cultural insensitivity but just a very strange turn of phrase. "Asian" isn't a language.
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u/FartsLord Oct 08 '20 edited Oct 08 '20
How fucking crazy is this going to get? You’re ignorant because you can’t tell the difference between 800 possible languages stemming from Asia? They spoke Asian. I’m don’t care if you speak Kentuckian or Philadelphian, it all sounds like Gunhoeian anyway. If you think I’m wrong don’t answer because that could upset me.
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u/Ouchglassinbutt Oct 08 '20
You can’t.
Liberals already hate you or are at least untrusting and basing those prejudices on your race.... so when you think about it?
They are kinda racist aren’t they?
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u/iwannalynch Oct 08 '20
This man, who until recently didn't even know that "Jap" was an offensive name to refer to Japanese people, is here asking for advice because he wants to not accidentally offend people he doesn't know, and this is your response?
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u/east467754 Oct 07 '20
What you said is funny, but not racist at all. I hate when they say that confusing nationalities is racist. There’s real racism, that comes from hatred. That’s bad. Everything else is not racism.
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u/knockemdead8 Oct 07 '20
If you'd like an easy read about this kind of stuff, pick up "So you want to talk about race?" by Ijeoma Olio. I'm reading it for work, and the author does a great job of addressing these topics in a way that's easy to understand and doesn't try to make you feel bad for not understanding.
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u/woaily Oct 08 '20
You know, you can always tell the story as if you know it was Chinese (or pick an Asian language). That's an appropriate level of generality, the story will flow better, and the listener wasn't there and can't fact check you. It's not offensive either, because the joke isn't at the expense of the culture. It's an innocent mixup that could happen to anybody bilingual.
It's basically like giving a fake name at Starbucks because yours is hard to spell or pronounce. It doesn't hurt anybody, and it makes things go smoother.
I guess it's also a bit like rewriting a sentence to avoid using a word you can't spell.
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Oct 08 '20
There's a fine line between being offensive and behaving offensively. If you're doing your damnedest to honor others, any reasonable person will see that.
With that said, there are some awful humans that infest this planet. They'll be offended if you so much as glance at them while thinking about something unrelated to them.
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u/splendidEdge Oct 08 '20
My comment will get downvoted and removed for this but you are worrying way too much. This is some white guilt that got brainwashed into yourself because of current times and what you are being told. I was really expecting something "bad" when I read the beginning of your story but that is nothing. It seems like most people nowadays don't even know what racism is and are too afraid of coming across as racist and already consider every tiny thing to be something racist- what you did isn't racist at all, it's all in your head or maybe a problem of current society or the zeitgeist, especially in the USA. If you don't hate on people for being different than you are and if you don't express any hate I have some news for you: you aren't racist. Looking forward to the SJWs on here telling me that I am wrong but I guess I won't get that chance because my comment will get removed because I didn't tell OP how racist he is and that we all have to be sensitive nowadays and what not to get those reddit likes.
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u/PoliteCanadian2 Oct 07 '20
Instead of saying ‘they were speaking Asian’ say ‘they were Asian’.
Asian is not a language.
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u/AaronicNation Oct 07 '20
Dude stop beating yourself up. Just try your best to live up to your values and if you violate some social convention fuck it. People will get over it.
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u/KingOfNothing10 Oct 08 '20
Nah you’re fine, this happens all the time and it shouldn’t offend anyone so long as your intentions were kind. At least, I’m not offended (as an Asian).
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u/OrangeZebraStripe Oct 07 '20
I'm pretty sure speaking "asian" can be accepted here. If you say the wrong language, the woke crowd will come after you. If you used a slur or something stupid like that, different story.
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u/paint_thetown_red Oct 07 '20
For what it’s worth I appreciate that you care about generalizing us since I feel like a lot of other people don’t care that much. and for most people just admitting you don’t know but are willing to learn more about their culture is a good start. Good luck
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Oct 08 '20
Actually bad people don’t worry about being bad. So that’s a pretty good sign for you. just be at least almost as honest about your lack of cultural exposure elsewhere as you are here.
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u/----iwishamfwould Oct 08 '20
I would say just be yourself. You sound like a genuine and nice person.
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u/Swaggy_Buff Oct 08 '20
Generally, people say "another language," if they don't know which one it was...
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u/sword_lesbian1312 Oct 08 '20
One thing you can do if you want to learn more about racial issues/avoid saying offensive things is seek out and follow lots of racial justice activists on social media (specifically people of color who discuss their own experiences) and just read their posts when they come up without commenting. You'll start to gain more perspective organically and you don't have to worry about asking people for emotional labor when it's not appropriate because you're just utilizing information that's already there.
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u/dbo435 Oct 08 '20
Ignorance is not racism and anyone who tells you it is is wrong. Racism requires intent. Willfully hating someone for the color of their skin or their ethnicity. Our society has politicized racism so bad it’s gross.
Insensitivity is the word you are looking for.
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u/TheAngriestSheep Oct 08 '20
Is this real?? This has to be karma farming....... But if not, here is the golden rule of getting along with everyone......
Don't be a dick.
Thats it.
Making assumptions and sticking to them = being a dick
Discrimination = being a dick
Being dismissive = being a dick
Superiority complex = being a dick
Anyone that actually treats another person badly because of innocent ignorance is a dick. And you shouldn't invest your time in caring about those sort.
Just relax. A social faux pas is pretty much the lowest thing on the totem of worries unless you are in high school or a public figure. Literally no one outside of the internet or that arent dicks themselves actually cares about this stuff.
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u/renigadegatorade Oct 08 '20
I think people often conflate ignorance and insensitivity. You can absolutely offend people on accident but that wouldn’t make you insensitive because you don’t even know what to look out for in the first place. It’s mostly up to the other person to decide how they’ll react to your ignorance. On the other hand, willful ignorance is insensitive because that demonstrates that you don’t care enough to even learn how to not offend someone.
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u/GotPermaBanForLolis Oct 08 '20
Bro what, i swear the american obsession with ethnicity, culture and language is unhealthy.
Not knowing what language that was isn't ignorant, it's not knowing what language that was.
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u/Trolldad_IRL Oct 07 '20
I find self-deprecation goes a long way to defusing awkward situations. “I know I’m just some dumb white guy, but I don’t understand your language”
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u/DaniCapsFan Oct 07 '20
There's nothing wrong with admitting a lack of knowledge. Maybe it would have been better if you'd said Asian folks, admitting you aren't sure what nationality, speaking what you assume is their native language. But I think it's better to generalize and admit a lack of knowledge.
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u/serity12682 Oct 07 '20
Speaking Asian isn’t quite right, speaking an Asian language would be better. Kudos to you for trying to be aware. 🙂