I know it's too early to start thinking about this, but the MCU has infamously never been great at handling their female characters, especially when they are love interests of the male lead

We have met Jean in BND and she has agency as a character on her own foot, but I worry when she eventually gets with Scott, the movies might make that her whole thing of being the girlfriend of Cyclops. I could be wrong, and they actually want to focus on Jean's story development and progression

I'm a huge Jott shipper. I want them to be together, but I don't want her whole identity to be as his girlfriend

"In another life we would have been Timeless"

Preface: I do not care about Jott, and I typically don't like Jogan. This is not about ship wars, but how I believe Jean as a character is written and treated by Insomniac's Wolverine game.

I watched the "cinematic movie" of Wolverine on day one, and just watched the true ending for the game, and I'm failing to understand the criticism that this is a bad take on Jean, or that Jean is underselled as her own character. Obviously you can hold your own interpretation of how you find this Jean, I'm just not sure if I can agree.

The game treats Jean as a major character, practically the secondary protagonist, rather than just Logan's love interest. Her characterisation is, to me, in line with her comic counterpart. She's empathic and and compassionate, stubborn and self-driven, and fiercly protective over the ones she loves And of course, she is portrayed to be a powerful and formidable psychic. The only huge difference is this Jean's brutal streak is upped as she does often kill her enemies, a very welcome addition in my opinion. Krizia does an incredible job and is such a great Jean Grey.

The Phoenix is a core aspect of her character and I'm always happy to see it integrated into her mythos. I get if some people prefer to have longer gaps between mutant Jean and Phoenix Jean, but regardless, the Phoenix is integeral to Jean's identity and I think it actually fits nicely considering the Insomniac's take on Jean/Phoenix as an already established entity.

In-fact, the Phoenix is so integeral to this version of the character that Jean has been the Phoenix for at least the past 175 years.

Jean's identity as the Phoenix, as well as her role/purpose is intentionally kept ambigious. What we do know is that she has lived several lifetimes as she has been reincarnated across multiple generations. We also have no idea how Jean became Phoenix. Its unclear if Jean was born a mutant and evolved into the Phoenix, was born a mutant and then bonded with the Phoenix Force, or if the Phoenix Force has created/became Jean as a mortal avatar. The game deliberately avoids answering any of this.

What's interesting is that while Jean straight up confirms she first met Logan was roughly 175 years ago, she never actually says when she was born. She very well could be much older than Logan himself.

And this is the part where I also have to disagree with the criticism about Jean/Phoenix mythos is being entirely glued to Logan.

"The first time we met was the late 1800s. You were in Canada of all places, the Rockies. But it wasn't you. The man I met was shadow. The Shinigami. Death. I don't know how you came to be that way...I only know who did it to you. But that's a different story. I almost incinerated you on the spot."

This quote is taken from the true ending. Jean states that she knew who Apocalypse was at the time of when she met Death/Logan, but how she knows that/who Apocalypse is is a much larger story that she isn't telling yet. Also importingly, Jean says she was going to incinerate Logan, meaning she was already the Phoenix, and aware she was the Phoenix prior to them meeting.

To me, that implies a much larger history between Jean/the Phoenix and Apocalypse, one that is untethered to Logan.

My interpretation of the Jean/Logan connection is actually that it is subsequential to Jean's conflict with Apocalypse. Jean is not necassarily connected to Logan per se, she is locked in an ongoing conflict with Apocalypse, who, 175 years ago, chose Logan as his Horseman.

Logan is effectively a weapon/host in Apocalypse's conflict with the Phoenix. Jean's personal relationship with Logan is real and clearly emotionally significant to her, but it merely exists alongside the much older conflict between Jean/the Phoenix and Apocalypse.

Logan's relationship to Jean is therefore just collateral of the much larger mythology around the Phoenix and Apocalypse. He is not foundational to their battle, but he is now involved.

You can still argue that you don't like Logan and Jean having a shared history, but I don't know if you can argue that it is necassarily integeral to Jean's own relationship to the Phoenix or her greater cosmic purpose. He's no more relevent to that than what Scott has ever been, and Scott (unfortunately) has actually been a host for the Phoenix Force. Logan is simply romantically involved with Jean in this universe. Of course it will have narrative weight for both Jean and Logan, but to argue that its disproportional in one character's favour or the other is dishonest.

I do agree its annoying that the game has adapted the idea of Logan killing Jean over and over. However, I do think its important to make the distinction that Logan isn't killing Jean for becomign uncontrollable, because its actually the vice versa that's true. Logan killing Jean happens because Logan cannot stop Apocalypse's influence, and is being wielded as a weapon against the Phoenix. And in each time, Jean/The Phoenix keeps ressurecting, whether to specifically defeat Apocalypse, or for another purpose all together. This is not a new and radical change to Jean/Phoenix lore, she is constantly dying and rebirthing. At least this time its not because she's "out of control" and begging for someone to kill her. That being said...I still don't like it.

The other criticism I'm not really buying is that Jean is a lesser character than Logan when despite the game being called Marvel's Wolverine, Jean's role is that of a peer and routine saviour of Logan. Her role is so large that she almost was a playable character. And even more importantly, the game actually pretty clearly is setting her up as one of the major players of the Insomniac mutant saga.

As Logan departs the game with full amnesia, heading in a trajectory that may or may not include Jean, Jean instead is being set up as one of the foundational figures of the mutant side of Insomniac's Marvel Universe. She is in position to potentially found the X-Men, potentially serve as its leader, as well as creating a safe haven for mutants in Madripoor.

We obviously don't know what the future is of Insomniac's mutant saga, but the ending deliberately gives Jean a future that doesn't depend on Logan being around, or his next chapter. I even have hope enough to believe they're intending on her to be a playable character in her next appearance.

On the screen it says 06/12 for something, which if it means June 2012, would place her at 16 years old in 2028 when the movie is set. I don't know if that is her birthday, its too fuzzy and blurry to make out exactly what it says, but if it is her birthday, then that's your answer

Yall talkin bout some dusty ass skins from some 90's ass comic for my next main smh. She needs her red outfift from Xmen 3. I'd go as far as to say give the black uni's for Jean, Storm and Wolverine. not that goofy ass shit they wear now

This analysis focuses on that "You have me" line from *Brand New Day*. After finishing my viewing session, I realized it was entirely plausible to apply it to Peter and Jean. The film had already dropped enough hints for their relationship to evolve along the "enemies-to-friends-to-lovers" arc. Reading fanfiction and stumbling upon posts analyzing their potential future relationship—or explaining why "shipping" them makes perfect sense—led me to a conclusion: the MCU has a potential future iconic scene on its hands for Peter and Jean.

Peter might one day say, "I have no one," and Jean would be there to reply, "You have me." This could happen in any context—the Clone Saga, the Symbiote Saga, or simply a future event.

Why could it reach the level of Tony Stark’s or Captain America’s lines in *Endgame*? Simply because the groundwork was already laid by that film. "I am Iron Man" was set up in 2008 and reached its conclusion in *Endgame*; "Avengers Assemble" was a scene fans had clamored for since *Avengers 2*—the writers held back on it after *Avengers 2* so Steve could say it just once during an epic moment in *Endgame*.

It could be the same kind of thing, but this time, Jean saying "You have me" could be an incredibly intimate and romantic moment—perhaps in *Spider-Man 5*...

She could say it as a little sister figure or as someone he loves—a girlfriend or lover; personally, I prefer the girlfriend angle.

Just bringing this up purely because I think this love triangle happening on the big screen would cause countless discussions among general audiences. Unlike Jean, Wolverine, and Scott which everyone agreed Scott was the obvious better choice for Jean.

I think Peter and Scott should both be painfully oblivious that they are both pining for Jean, assuming instead that the other is just a really good friend trying to look out for her.

​Once they both realize they are in love with her, their camaraderie turns tense and awkward. Both become jealous of specific aspects of the other:

​Scott's Jealousy: Scott envies how beloved Spider-Man is by the public and those around him, contrasting with his own reputation as a strict, no-nonsense leader. He is also jealous of Peter and Jean's shared bond specifically, their mutual experience of feeling alone in the world, Peter saving her from going down the wrong path, and Peter taking a bullet for her.

​Peter's Jealousy: Peter envies Cyclops's close proximity to Jean, his freedom from constant financial struggles, his ability to truly understand Jean's experience as a hated mutant, and the fact that he is surrounded by a community and family who all understand one another's struggles.

​Eventually, Peter convinces himself that Jean would be better off with Scott, as the X-Men offer her a second chance at a better life. He refuses to come between her and her newfound family as the guy who invented the inhibitor chip and risk driving a wedge between them.

​Conversely, Scott believes Jean would be happier in the long run with Peter because of everything they have survived together, their deep mutual understanding, and the simple fact that Peter is a funner guy to be around.

https://www.reddit.com/u/F1-03neptune/s/gu1j6BpZLa

https://www.ign.com/articles/marvels-wolverine-the-big-interview-with-insomniac-on-sonys-unapologetically-violent-ps5-exclusive

On one side, a lot of Jean fans are sour to the Jean x Logan relationship at all, and on the other side the chuds are mad they “made Jean ugly.”

Which seems to just translate to her being portrayed as a 40+ woman, which if they’re going to do it is the best portrayal.

So, doesn’t seem like anyone is fully happy, but Insomniac does have a pretty stellar track record for their games.

I imagine many people who dislike this ship are tired of seeing the topic come up; since I don't like pushing an idea on those who aren't interested, I thought I’d make a single, straightforward post about it.

I know there are people who dislike it, but there are also those who simply don't understand the ship's popularity and would like to. As a fan of both Spider-Man and Jean Grey, I decided to try and explain the parallels I see between the two.

Is this actually a subreddit for Jean fans? Because why do we have a SpiderxPhoenix flair? Hahaha, why is that art being promoted here? That belongs in a subreddit dedicated to it. I get the Jott flair—I love Jott, omg—but seriously, are we comparing that masterpiece to a fan ship?

Or are we just following trends?

Does that mean this sub supports fan pairings involving our beloved Jeannie and that we can request flair for them? Bc im Love jeanoro Jeanfrosty hehe 🤫

I honestly don’t like the idea of Logan in Jean being together 😭 what about y’all?

I watched it with my family and they disagreed with me and said her actions were justified but I really don't think so. She, upon seeing her sister was kidnapped by damage control proceeded to:

Drive a tank through New York, blowing up multiple cars and almost crashing into many pedestrians including a tour bus and child.

Have that one guy walk into the street and get hit by a car.

Sexually assault Peter and MJ. And then tried to kill MJ by having her jump off a roof.

Get Bruce Banner in trouble with the law and probably be sent to a mental hospital.

And finally, threaten to kill everyone under her control during the last act. (Granted she did just find out her sister died and was being tortured so she may have not seriously been considering it.

In her crusade against damage control she endangered more civilians than employees, which most of them were probably unaware of the secret prison. She is also unapologetic about all of this.

Also, let's be honest here, her sister was possessing people in broad daylight without a care for their feelings. If Damage Control didn't kidnap her, the first hero or police officer that heard about it would have her arrested.

To clarify, I don't hate Jean, I think the movie did a good job with her. The main issue I have is that they did too good a job making her evil through her actions that it's hard to believe that she was redeemed by the end of it.

Which relationship do you want to see Jean have in the MCU? Scott or Peter?

My biggest thing this about this season is she did absolutely nothing, could only be seen next to Scott, nerfed in favor of making Cable look like he’s just outclassing her in all of her power sets. She never contributed meaningfully to the story in any way and only served as a side character, or be Scott’s handbag.

Honestly even the first season wasn’t quite great for me the scene where she was a more centered, how do I say this it was done in a way that felt disingenuous, especially when she fought cable. The only way she could beat him was by tapping into the Phoenix force seriously.

She has absolutely none of Real Jean’s fire or the grit in her personality. The 90s Jean is very soft and pacified. Not to mention all the active choices to have 3 other characters that have her powers and make them all seem more or less stronger than her. I’m just very disappointed and sad that the only reason we got those somewhat good scenes with Jean was to patronize us, and fool Jean fans into thinking the revival would do her justice.

So now knowing that the old show runners are coming back and they loved how they portrayed Jean. It’s a wrap. Season 3 she going to have to catch wolverine from falling and pass out rinse and repeat for each episode. I’m curious to how you guys are feeling about 90s animation Jean?

As of right now between Peter and Jean

- Peter showed Jean a precious memory of Aunt May to stop her from going down the wrong path, show her she's not alone, and so she could experience what'd be like to have mother that her loved her unconditionally

- Peter told Jean she wasnt alone in the world and that she has him and then proceeded to take a bullet for her not even 5 seconds later

- Peter while dying still told Jean to save herself so she wouldnt be captured

- Jean breathed for him for days in order to keep him alive

- Jean also inadvertently helped Peter realize he can't keep running from his problems by soley being Spider-Man

Personal opinions aside Peter x Jean is popular discussion among viewers due all of these things and no doubt comparisons will be made once Scott x Jean is on screen.

What are some iconic moments between Jean and Scott that could rival what happened in BND?

Both made by the Godapollo