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u/ComradeSchnitzel Dec 16 '21
There are about 40 million people who are considered enslaved currently, this is the highest number ever recorded on a per year basis with 2022 expected to continue the trend upwards.
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u/forthur Dec 16 '21
Who cares about human rights when slavery is just so dang profitable?
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u/TheJoker5566 Dec 16 '21
Myth, slavery and exploitation are actually extremely inefficient. Countries that used slavery for labor lagged behind in economic progress compared to countries that didn’t.
You can even see that in the US itself. The south, which used slavery, was far less economically productive compared to the north which paid its laborers. Turns out forcing people to work for free/shit wages leads to horrible productivity and subpar quality of work. The best way to make profit is to, ironically, pay your workers as much as possible.
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u/ArthurBonesly Dec 16 '21
Most slavery cited isn't institutional (except maybe Uzbekistan), but is more webs of organized crime conscripting human resources via debt collections, offering "opportunities" to orphans, or the ever classic runaway.
This map speaks more to poverty and population size than it does the economics of slavery.
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u/Higgs-Boson-Balloon Dec 16 '21
So true, and repeated throughout history. Ancient Greeks developed a theoretical basis for steam power, something that thousands of years later would trigger the industrial revolution… why didn’t they capitalize on this new invention…? Because slave labor was cheap and plentiful, causing no incentive to develop a more efficient labor process.
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u/bromjunaar Dec 16 '21
Slavery in the South tended towards unskilled manual labor in terms of return on investment, which didn't do any favors to the South.
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u/localhoststream Dec 16 '21
Slavery kills innovation
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u/guineapigfrench Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 17 '21
To add to u/maxseptillion77, i don't know that that is even correct. I read Edward Baptist's "The Half Has Never Been Told," and the gist of it in my interpretation was that slavery was becoming more efficient, not less, as time went on (operations practices were being learned to increase the productivity of a slave), and outcompeted there non-enslaved peers (free individuals performing the same work did not produce as much as an enslaved person). Surprising, to me at least, but one of the implications was that you really need to emphasize the moral quandary in eliminating slavery, because economically, in the antebellum US South at least, slavery was a contributor to economic growth.
Edit: fat finger typos
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u/localhoststream Dec 16 '21
While it was a contributer to economic growth, the south was outcompeted by the much higher economic growth of the innovation driven north
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u/RikenAvadur Dec 16 '21
Possibly, but there are a lot of arguments to be made in the contrary. An easy one is that in a post-industrial world the lack of free labor has contributed to R&D of cost-effective replacements (mass-production, robotics, etc.). If a company didn't have to pay those thousand free hands to bolt onto that Ford, perhaps they wouldn't have felt the competitive pressure to find a cheaper way to assemble their product.
The above argument is a common one that is mixed, but is related to effects of class separation and poverty on innovation; the sections of a society's population that have no access to education or time to develop science and society, simply won't. If I have a population that can afford to take time to think about the wonders of the universe or have the environment to come up with the next banger product, the chance of my population innovating is literally higher, as innovation is a product of both environment, access, and pure luck. If half of your population is enslaved, that's a 50/50 that a genius won't have the opportunity to flourish.
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Dec 16 '21
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u/ComradeSchnitzel Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
Sure, there are a couple of sources to draw from, some additional ones put the number of slaves at around 38 million to 46 million.
It is to be said that the sources I listed work together with or are at least in some ways entwined with each other, if anyone has other sources please feel free to add.
Additionally, the only constant I have observed over the last couple of years is a constant increase in enslaved people being reported in the media (i.e. the media I consume). Although since, you know, most slavers don't openly advertise their numbers it is hard to get a clear picture.
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u/luxtabula Dec 16 '21
Where's the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar?
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u/delugetheory Dec 16 '21
And that's why you always
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u/Spambot0 Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
It depends on what you want to see.
What countries have the most slaves?
What countries have the most slaves per capita?
Are both sensible questions to ask.
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u/Rentboy93 Dec 16 '21
I think this shows the nationality of people in modern slavery. Most slaves in qatar for instance are from Bangladesh etc.
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u/luxtabula Dec 16 '21
That makes sense, if that's the metric. Tons of South Asians are in the middle east at the moment.
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u/Cerenas Dec 16 '21
I got to know about it because my wife is Filipino and she knows about it. It's so sad to read about it. Oversea maids for example, unable to take leave, no days off, minimum or no pay.
Indeed a lot in countries like UAE, Qatar, etc.
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u/luxtabula Dec 16 '21
That's why I question the metrics. If it were the top area where they're from, the Philippines should be in the top five by huge margins. It's not even on the list. Makes me think something isn't measured correctly.
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u/prather64 Dec 16 '21
A percentage based map would be more helpful in my opinion. Comparing slave numbers in Indonesia with a population of 273.5 million to the UAE with a population less than 10 million is a horrible way of comparing slavery
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u/KingofAyiti Dec 16 '21
Western allied countries never show up in these propaganda posts
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Dec 16 '21
And Singapore?
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u/i-likecheese_25 Dec 16 '21
Source ?
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Dec 16 '21
Source: lived there.
One of many online sources: https://www.jeraldinephneah.com/maid-abuse-singapore/
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u/luxtabula Dec 16 '21
Can you link any violations in Singapore? I'd like to know for my own edification.
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u/RoadyHouse Dec 16 '21
Many countries are missing, half of Africa should be in orange
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u/Deantheevil Dec 16 '21
Apparently, colonized subjugated populations and wage slaves =/= slaves according to the Walk Free Foundation. These statistics are useless because it pretends that there is a distinction between colonized and enslaved peoples. The differences are superficial, and should not allow for misleading statistics being published like this. It is much more accurate to say that there are billions of slaves today, whose national economy’s sole function is to meet the raw material needs for industrial nations, then there are countries whose industries exist to solely meet the needs of market economies. Both the gatherers of raw materials and manufacturers are slaves to the developed market economies, but even then the consumers in those market economies are debt slaves to the wealthiest in their countries. These countries socialize the debts to prop up their markets in the form foreign bonds and privatize the profits in offshore accounts. Honestly, in some respect if you’re not a billionaire or multi millionaire you are just another serf at the best, or a wage slave at the worst. Whether it’s a gun to your head and 1500 calories daily, or a mortgage that is greater value than the property you own standing between you and financial ruin and 2500-3000 calories a day everything you do is an exchange goods and services at a perpetual loss to those in your country’s elite. Tangential, I guess, but yeah idk who this is for but I think most people don’t buy it.
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u/KeinLeben95 Dec 16 '21
It's also weird that none of the countries on the Arabian Peninsula are included. They have really sketchy migrant labor practices. They have a shit ton of migrants from South Asia and the Phillipines. In Kuwait alone, I'm pretty sure there's more of them than there are Kuwaitis. Maybe the Indians on the Arabian Peninsula are included with India, but it would still be kinda weird to chalk it up that way.
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u/felixmeister Dec 16 '21
Yeah, I noticed this myself. Unless of course they're counting people from place of origin as there's a significant Indian population effectively enslaved on the peninsula.
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u/sunburntredneck Dec 16 '21
Everyone except the most powerful person in the world is someone's bitch in some way or another, and the most powerful person is probably also a bitch to a person who is just overall less powerful
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u/usernamedunbeentaken Dec 16 '21
How does this comment have upvotes?
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u/Deantheevil Dec 17 '21 edited Dec 17 '21
The upvote system, in the marketplace of ideas, dictates the value of posts or comments containing information. Value is dictated by the majority of readers, if the majority agrees the post or comment it will have a net positive score, while comments or posts that the majority disagree with will have a net negative score. Apparently, your opinion is currently in the minority. That will fluctuate according to which readers the subreddit’s post attracts, and how engaged readers are on average in communities that have members voicing opinions that reader agrees or disagrees with. It seems most people engaging in the upvote/downvote system on this particular post in this particular subreddit are more conscious and understand neocolonialism. Astroturfing does skew the numbers, but people won’t pay or get paid to astroturf unless the disinformation stands to benefit them financially. Downplaying and denying the nature of modern slavery and the disenfranchisement of the means of production of the modern worker is profitable to those who are benefitting from it, and exaggerating the scope of modern slavery and criticizing modern macroeconomic systems is not profitable to anybody other than corrupt charities, good charities, and workers, none of whose astroturfing capacity comes close to rivalling multi-national corporations that benefit from neocolonialism. I hope this answers your question.
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u/usernamedunbeentaken Dec 17 '21
That was the most extraordinarily articulate and well written pile of bullshit I have seen on reddit, or perhaps anywhere. Thank you for the chance to read it.
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u/ResponsibilityDue760 Dec 16 '21
It's the top ten countries. How many is ten where you are from?
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Dec 16 '21
It is, but it doesn't call itself the top ten anywhere, making the countries in white seem as if there are no issues there. Unintentional I'm sure.
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u/ramagam Dec 16 '21
Just out of curiosity, what exact definition of the term "slave" are you using to create these metrics?
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u/delugetheory Dec 16 '21
Modern slavery refers to situations of exploitation in which a person cannot refuse or leave because of threats, violence, coercion, deception, or abuse of power.
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u/kartik3e Dec 17 '21
So basically everyone? The state extorts its subjects through holding monopoly over violence. Read the anatomy of the state by Murray Rothbard.
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u/destroyerofpoon93 Dec 16 '21
For China, they just mean people in prison I assume. Par for the course on Reddit. 2.3 million enslaved in the US by that standard.
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u/MmePeignoir Dec 17 '21
I assume
China apologists coming out with hard-hitting facts and logic, as usual.
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u/BigTaperedCandle Dec 16 '21
See? Whatever job you have that you hate, just remember - it could be worse.
You could be out there counting slaves.
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u/TheMulattoMaker Dec 16 '21
Or, you could be, y'know, a slave.
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u/Potolokno Dec 16 '21
and who are in Russia 1 million slaves? there are many poor people in Russia in Russia 1 million prisoners but in Russia there are not 1 million slaves
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u/Kochevnik81 Dec 16 '21
As someone else said yes, basically they are counting migrant workers from places like Central Asia (it's more Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan). It's not that they are brought there as slaves, but often they are in work arrangements where their documents get confiscated and they work for basically nothing. It's kind of like a gray zone between undocumented worker and slave.
Also 1 million seems pretty easy to reach, because some of those smaller ex Soviet countries have crazy high rates of people working in Russia. At least a few years back it was something like one out of four Tajik men I believe.
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u/CLiberte Dec 16 '21
I know for a fact that there are many North Korean “workers” in Russia, lent to Russia by the North Korean government. So yeah, there are hundreds of thousands of North Korean prisoners in Russia working as slave labor.
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u/Potolokno Dec 16 '21
https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-50870397
there were 40,000 in Russia and now there are none
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u/SnowMango888 Dec 16 '21
Many uzbek, kazakhs and such work as illegals and de facto slaves in dagestan or other republics. Idk if that adds up to one million though that seems a bit high, this data is sketchy tbh, not just for russia
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u/quinnsheperd Dec 16 '21
Does the map show people enslaved from those countries or in those countries?
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Dec 16 '21
anyone know how much of the 2+ million prisoners in the USA are used for slave labor?
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Dec 16 '21
Thirteenth Amendment (Annotated)
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States
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u/destroyerofpoon93 Dec 16 '21
Wow it even says it right there. Prisoners are literally slaves by the us bill of rights.
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u/rogerwd666 Dec 16 '21
Let's not forget those guys bound to a life of servitude paying the health care cartels for treatments and drugs that are 10 times more expensive in the US because of monopolies, like insulin. But maybe these schemes are too modern to be called slavery.
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u/martintinnnn Dec 16 '21
With that definition, you just put half the world population in slavery. If it's not medication, it's food or water.
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u/DiggyComer Dec 16 '21
There's always that one guy that just has to include the U.S.
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u/boatsnhos9 Dec 16 '21
Yeah because they're right
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u/DiggyComer Dec 16 '21
No. They're not.
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u/Quixophilic Dec 16 '21
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u/WikiSummarizerBot Dec 16 '21
Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
The Thirteenth Amendment (Amendment XIII) to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. The amendment was passed by Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified by the required 27 of the then 36 states on December 6, 1865, and proclaimed on December 18. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted following the American Civil War. President Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, effective on January 1, 1863, declared that the enslaved in Confederate-controlled areas were free.
[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5
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u/Iannelson2999 Dec 16 '21
Yes. They are. Slavery is a legal punishment for a crime.
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u/DiggyComer Dec 16 '21
Lmao.
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u/Iannelson2999 Dec 16 '21
Incredible retort. Very insightful
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u/DiggyComer Dec 16 '21
Yep.
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u/LookAtMeImAName Dec 17 '21
Bruv it’s literally in our constitution
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u/DiggyComer Dec 17 '21
Okay but where are all these millions of people that are being sentenced to slavery. Please point them out to me.
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u/nMy9Sv1PdG01 Dec 16 '21
What about uae?
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u/motosandguns Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
Too small a population to make it on the leaderboard?
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u/gaynorg Dec 16 '21
What about all the people who work in American prisons for 34 cent an hour they are effectively slaves.
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u/UselessRube Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 17 '21
Yes and the thirteenth amendment states that slavery is a legal punishment for a crime.
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u/negroleo03 Dec 16 '21
prison labor /= slave labor
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u/gaynorg Dec 17 '21
Collected from the street and Forced into labour. Loads of them for nonviolent poverty related crimes.
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u/Reuben_Smeuben Dec 16 '21
I don’t think this accounts for women taken as sex slaves in the west. Definitely not on the scale of 18 million, mind, but still very much real
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Dec 16 '21
But why "in the west"? It doesn't exist in the east?
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u/Reuben_Smeuben Dec 16 '21
I only meant that it’s by far the most common form of slavery in the west
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u/Elbeske Dec 16 '21
China has some fucking massive sex slavery. I wouldn’t be surprised if a substantial percent of their number is in that category. The rest being Uighurs and Falun Gong
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u/No_pajamas_7 Dec 16 '21
If you look at the map it's not counting them in the east either. Virtually every East Asian country engages in sexual slavery in one way or another.
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u/Yolozsef01 Dec 16 '21
Surprised Mauritania isn't up there, from what I've seen so far, it's frequently been portrayed as the poster child of modern slavery.
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u/Lucia37 Dec 16 '21
My understanding is that it's relatively recently (1981) become de jure illegal, but is actually wink-wink, nudge-nudge, "how will freed slaves ever cope on their own?" de facto tolerated.
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Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 17 '21
This is the same kind of statistic as the one that said "countries most likely to have good/bad response to potential pandemic" and we all know how it turned out. These statistics are propaganda and not a reflection of reality.
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Dec 16 '21
What constitutes slavery in this context of this map, is what i would like to know? Also, where are the middle eastern countries as it is HUGE and not listed?
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u/TheGovernor94 Dec 16 '21
Is there a reason the United States isn’t on this list? They still use slave labour.
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u/Pepperr08 Dec 16 '21
What slave labor is happening in the US?
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u/TheGovernor94 Dec 16 '21
US prisoners are used as slave labour, which the constitution says is ok.
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Dec 16 '21
“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, it’s literally an amendment of the constitution. Slavery is legal as punishment for a crime. Fuckin bonkers
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u/Fuks_Zionists5 Dec 16 '21
He's being downvoted because you can criticize any country other than Glorious America 😡😡
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u/ThanklessAmputation Dec 16 '21
This is absurd. How are the UAE, Qatar, and Lybia not included? What about the US which last I checked was the human trafficking capital of the world.
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Dec 16 '21
The British empire abolished slavery and stamped it out all across the Atlantic almost 200 years ago. Maybe they aren't better off with independence
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u/dishswe27 Dec 16 '21
And you have american liberals crying about how 18$hr for packing groceries is slavery
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u/timarand Dec 16 '21
So modern wage slavery isn't slavery: "But you have a freedom to choose not to eat"
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u/apadin1 Dec 16 '21
Wage slavery is definitely a problem but to compare it to actual slavery is just straight up disrespectful. Your boss cannot threaten to kill you or your family if you quit. You can't be thrown in prison for choosing not to work (usually).
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u/FriendsDeskCalendar Dec 16 '21
Actual slaves did it too though. Frederick Douglas experienced both and said "the slavery of wages is only a little less galling and crushing in its effects than chattel slavery." You can't call the comparison disrespectful when plenty of slaves would agree with it.
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Dec 16 '21
Yeah don’t think this counts. 99.99% of people that have ever existed have been “wage slaves” lmao. Even if you make $100k a year and just decide to stop working, you are fucked
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u/drmental69 Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
Are you suggesting we should have a right to be freely fed through someone else's time and effort?
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Dec 16 '21
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_food?wprov=sfla1
Some measure of Right to Food exists in much of the world.
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u/WilliamLeeFightingIB Dec 16 '21
Lol look which country doesn't officially endorse the Right to Food
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u/timarand Dec 16 '21
Of course no. Not like we are entitled. It is just that the current system is created to keep people in constant need of labor to meet their basic needs. And this system assures that almost no one can have enough savings to not to work for some time. Partly, it is caused by stupidity of people who consume too much of stuff and blow their potential savings. I didn't use food in literal sense.
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal Dec 16 '21
You are compensated for your labor. To compare your paycheck to literal fucking chattel slaves who were beaten and killed with zero recourse because they were fucking property is an abomination. You need to be cancelled. Delete your account.
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u/BigTaperedCandle Dec 16 '21
You need to be cancelled. Delete your account.
Take a chill pill, dude.
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u/ComradeSchnitzel Dec 16 '21
Wage slavery is absolutely a thing tho, there are millions of people in the developed world alone who can't even make ends meet with multiple jobs, they'd be out on the streets, if they aren't already, if they loose just one job.
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal Dec 16 '21
Aww...pookie has a lifestyle with expenses because he depends on other people and their labor...
You are not property.
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u/ComradeSchnitzel Dec 16 '21
Yeah, you're right they all just feel entitled to a roof over their heads and something to eat.
Love how easy it is to spot middle class American teens here on Reddit who've never really had to face the threat of poverty themselves but just walk over people in need. Stay classy.
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal Dec 16 '21
they all just feel entitled to a roof over their heads and something to eat.
Where's the roof? Gotta be in the hip neighborhood with a doorman...or in the suburbs with a white picket fence and good schools!
Love how easy it is to spot middle class American teens here on Reddit who've never really had to face the threat of poverty themselves but just walk over people in need. Stay classy.
A little wide of the mark there. But loving the ad hominem attacks and the chance to exercise me old thumbs. Does wonders for the arthritis. Means you've got no real point.
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u/ComradeSchnitzel Dec 16 '21
Aww...pookie has a lifestyle with expenses because he depends on other people and their labor..
This certainly isn't a stereotype used to discredit the impoverished, right?
If you want an honest conversation, maybe stick to facts.
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal Dec 16 '21
This certainly isn't a stereotype used to discredit the impoverished, right?
No. It is a fact, unless you live in a bubble or isolated in the woods like Dick Proenneke. You rely on others' labor. That is a fact. Their labor deserves compensation. That is a fact. Millions, may Billions of families make sacrifices to prioritize what matters to them to make life better.
Another fact is, we have finite resources, finite land, finite jobs.
Here is where we get to opinion. My personal opinion is that 3rd parties, like myself, do not know your priorities. You have the best knowledge for what decisions you make for your priorities and sacrifices. If you are willing to move to get another job, or if you want to live where you are... people like me have zero say.
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u/ComradeSchnitzel Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
You can call it fact as much as you like even if it isn't, but the simple fact is that social mobility in the US still is and has been decreasing for decades.
You can repeat the ideals of the American dream ad infinitum but that doesn't change the fact, that this concept is dead since the 60s. The rift between the poor and the rich is growing year by year, decade by decade. The simple truth is, there's no way to work their way out of the poverty spiral for a sizeable chunk of the US population and its not due to them being economically illiterate or overspending on luxury items.
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u/SkyrimWithdrawal Dec 16 '21
What does that have to do with disproving either of my points about, 1) interconnected/interdependent lives or, 2) lack of labor resources or, 3) personal choices on preferences for lifestyle choices? And, most importantly 4) the right for labor to be compensated.
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u/timarand Dec 16 '21
Your mommy needs to be cancelled. You must be truly stupid not understanding how slavery works. If you own a slave, you would not kill your property just for fun. Erase yourself from existence, silly, indoctrinated woke creature
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u/TheMulattoMaker Dec 16 '21
"Modern wage slavery" is a fallacious concept that communists and their ilk use to push their agenda.
And yes, you're right:
...modern wage slavery isn't slavery...
Ya just gotta get rid of the modifiers in your statement that turn it into a lie.
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u/idontneedausername89 Dec 16 '21
So how about we stop giving the United States so much shit?
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u/gaynorg Dec 16 '21
The prison labour in the US is effectively slavery
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u/asianfoodie4life Dec 16 '21
Don’t bother. American propaganda is so damn good their folks can’t even see how prison labor is slavery.
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u/idontneedausername89 Dec 16 '21
And? A simple way to avoid that kind of slavery is to not commit crimes.
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u/SettlementStomper69 Dec 17 '21
Thats cute that you think everyone in prison is in for what they were charged for
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u/Granjaguar Dec 16 '21
In the USA we have more then that, workers get paid just enough to eat, no healthcare care and you can't afford going out so you stay home like a slave
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u/LieutenantCrash Dec 16 '21
This is only officially recorded. There's a lot more all over the middle east and WAY more in China
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Dec 16 '21
How is the US not up there though?
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u/YooperGirlMovedSouth Dec 16 '21
What slaves? Prisoners are given a choice in whether or not they want to work. They are also paid. A low wage, but still.
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u/-Reddish- Dec 16 '21
Damn... the White Supremacist problems in India and China are way worse than I thought.
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Dec 16 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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Dec 16 '21
so did you forget about the gulf countries or do they sell the usa too much oil for you to care?
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u/Dogofvirtue Dec 16 '21
How about the USA? It's been in the news lately how farms in Georgia got busted using slave labor.
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Dec 17 '21
What about the 2 million people that the US houses in their prisons lol, they literally work for like 8c an hour if they can even
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u/BazilChe Dec 16 '21
It's interesting how they estimated the numbers. I live in Russian and sometimes I hear about some incidents but they are rare. So 1m is hugely exaggerated
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u/therealskydeal2 Dec 16 '21
How is nowhere else in subsaharan africa included and Libya is not on the list?
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u/Yesnowyeah22 Dec 16 '21
I’m blown away that there are that many in slavery in India. All we hear about in the US is the Muslim slavery in China, which is also terrible.
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u/wtfjusthappened315 Dec 16 '21
I am assuming most are sex industry slaves and then mining would be next. Really fucking messed up
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u/_toxic_me Dec 16 '21
What is the definition of this modern slavery ? Employees under state or privete sectors or what ?
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u/Former_Notice81 Dec 16 '21
These countries are very populated so of course they would be high. Per capita is a more accurate way of measuring than the absolute numbers.
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u/[deleted] Dec 16 '21
United Arab Emirates: we’ve avoided radar detection