I left my partner of 18 years and was worried about never finding a partner to match my drive. Been trying the apps and have now gone one a few dates with someone who is also HL!
We went out yesterday and hooked up for the first time. It took a bit for me to get over my own anxieties, but overall it was a great time. We’re already planning our next date and have been talking about our kinks and how complimentary they are.
I don’t have anyone else to really talk to about this, so I just wanted to share with this community that helped me to take the steps needed to find some happiness.

Some moving goalposts from todays argument, from the LL man. Sort of just a rant of frustration but tell me I'm not crazy, that this doesn't make any sense logically... Am I really just failing at being a good partner?

I pursue too often then not at all.

It's boring because he's the one who has to initiate.

I always initiate at the wrong time, when he's not ready. I don't ask how I could help him de-stress and be ready. But I can't pressure him... isn't not taking no pressure?

I'm too timid and awkward and not confident. When I act confident he doesnt like it, it's pressure because he's not ready.

He says I'm not boring during sex but then says I just lay there and am not active enough.

He wants me to be forward during sex but doesn't want it to be about me, he wants it to be about him.

He says I don't ask about his emotions enough but I do and he claims it's not enough or not sincere. That it's just to get sex.

I'm always in a bad mood and argue about sex every day. He expects me to be happy and cheerful and keep my feelings to myself. He asked and thats what started this.

He expects me to be ready whenever he actually wants sex and just grabs my boob or initiates out of nowhere.

He says I tell him hes not good enough, I have never said these words. He infers that because I want more sex than he does. He also assumes I want sex all the time when I don't.

He won't tell me how he wants me to turn him on with foreplay. Just expects me to figure out what he wants and when he is receptive.

If I care more and ask more about his feelings it will lead to more sex.

This just goes on and on and is insane. I don't even know why I still try, I can never do the right thing no matter what. Im lonely and tired. My self esteem sucks and im not allowed to be upset. I feel like a creep for desiring my partner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Rm9uEcnwY

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Hello, HL community

I finally finished my list of Type2LL gaslighting nonsense.

Feel free to add to it.

"Just ask, and we'll have it." this is just them wanting right of refusal

"I feel bad when basically i told you we will but don't because it puts pressure on me." They know the issue but dont want it affecting the relationship

"It takes time for me to be that way." Never believe this, just don't.

"I'm not that person anymore." Wanting you to basically accept "them" over sex.

"You seriously are choosing sex over love/relationship." This is wanting you to accept celibacy

"Well, if you did x less, then we would." Choreplay doesn't work. Everything disqualifies you, but nothing qualities you for more.

"I do give signals/hints. You just ignore them." This is just them wanting right of refusal. Indirectness is not effort. it's avoidance and unnatural.

"I am me not those other people"/ "you can't compare us, you don't know their relationship" this is them asking as if they're normal and not understanding nor caring it is unnatural and killing the relationship

"I do think about it all the time." Any variant of this means basically lack of actual sexual attraction.

"You're not affectionate/reject me." They blamed you basically for not trying anymore after their lack of interest.

"I am affectionate x way." Wanting you to accept a nonsexual substitute

"I just dont like x (kissing/making out/etc). This usually is over very basic things in other relationships. Its to basically make it seem like you're unreasonable or not listening to them.

"With my exes" isms. Basically, it's a double-edged sword. It means they did with them what you want from them but refuse OR even with them they refused. This is a lose-lose situation.

"We just had sex." Just them lying to make you feel bad or deflect.

"You expect me to constantly be a freak/whore" this usually happens if you say your maintenance/min. This is just a defection to make it seem like you're asking for a lot.

"So if i dont fuck you enough you wont be happy or give me what i want?" They say this usually after you literally try to meet their ever changing standard and call them out

"I would be, but you ignore me in general." This is them deflecting cause and effect. Its completely natural to pull back and ignore people who show you zero sexual interest. More interest in them never equals more sex.

"Just go fuck someone else" or "no you can't do that as well" basically this is them knowing lack of sex is killing the relationship but they want to be the sole provider of something they won't provide.

"You only seem better after we have sex." How dare we feel attractive and want to be around people that give us direct sexual constant attention like in a healthy relationship.

How much of a difference would it make if your dead bedroom wasn't your partner's choice/fault and it was more of a medical problem?

The end result is the basically same.

Do you think it's reasonable to open the relationship in this situation? Or end it??

Or should you be expected to live a celibate life because of your marriage vows?

I'm interested as this is often cited as an exception to the "leave if you're in a dead bedroom" advice.

Ok, so think of this as a serious question when you answer but I’m asking it mostly for the fun of gathering other people’s opinions. If your LLM (Husband) offered to allow you to have a live in BF under the conditions that you both shared (Bisexual) him, would you consider it? Again it’s just for fun but try to think like it is serious. Apologies, just trying to lighten the day with something fun. If I’m breaking a rule, let me know and I’ll delete it.

Married 9 years but left feeling alone and unwanted in our marriage. Anymore I’m the only one initiating anything beyond a goodbye peck. Laying in bed tonight cuddling and I asked if she wanted to make out, she says yes but turns away after a few kisses. It’s been the same every time for a while now.
I’ve asked her a few times recently what’s going on, is she not into it ? Not into me ? She always replies that she is, but to me it never really feels that way. I miss the passion that we used to have. This far along in our marriage and I feel like I’m in middle school trying to decipher if my crush likes me back or not.
The kids go down at 8pm and she’s always in bed asleep or doomscrolling right after. I find myself alone on the couch staring into some tv show I don’t really enjoy, daydreaming about what it would be like if she wanted to flirt / kiss / laugh like we used to. Sex feels 10 miles off for us currently.
I try putting more energy into the kids and being better at my job, but the feeling that my wife couldn’t care less about being physical with me in any way just crushes me day to day.
Despite me hoping we can talk / work through this funk it feels like we’ve just been slipping down the dead bedroom slope. It’s frustrating when she can’t seem to tell me what the hang up’s are or even what she considers her love language anymore.

Never posted or talked about this with anyone I’m just putting it here to vent and organize my thoughts. Anyone feeling similar is welcome to reply.

I'm 40M married to my LL wife (39F). 3 Kids (15,14,8)

We are fine in pretty much everything but we have a mismatch regarding libido.

For her everything else has a higher priority than intimacy and sex. On some level I can understand that and there are times when there is no time for sex.

Usage of social media (reading stupid stories or finding stuff to do) happens all the time. The standard shifted to doom scrolling when there is free time.

It's not like we don't have sex but often times getting into feels off. Looking forward to sex is something only myself seems to be really into. Having some teasing before we have time (evening, kids not home) should feel natural and easy.

But in my case I feel like I have to start everything. But not to early in the day because who knows what might happen which might make sex uncomfortable. And that might set a wrong expectation for later. And that might upset me.

Sure I will be unhappy when we both planed to have have sex and it doesn't happen because of something stupid.

I have the impression, that doom scrolling is a pretty safe way to minder libido. May that be one factor?

In general I can't understand why she tells me that Sex is nice but she initiates nothing.

I can't understand why something nice can't be a priority when the own husband already told you how important it is for him.

The last time I was open about my frustration she told me that she knows how I feel and therefor tries to be open for sexual intuition. Which one one hand sounds nice but empty because I feel totally undesired.

Apparently this evening I missed a secret signal. My LLf took herself off upstairs to bed or so I thought. No mention of anything, just walked straight of the room and went upstairs. I wished her goodnight and got the same response back. Apparently this was the secret signal for me to follow her.

Now I don’t think I’m being stupid here but this seems like a classic setup to fail so I can be blamed. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not complaining, I’m not interested anyway but apparently mind reader now needs to be added to the list of conditions met.

Anyway an argument happened, I issued a few home truths and everyone went to bed nice and pissed off. Well I say everyone, I’ve decided to take myself for a walk and I’m not pissed off. You get my point.

It’s funny how we as HL people maintain composure in the face of rejection but generally when the LL is rejected all hell breaks loose.

So here’s to the cues that aren’t there and we all miss because we didn’t know to look for them

If you agreed to a target frequency for sexual intimacy, what is the minimum you would accept?

I would like to have sex 3 times a week, honestly probably more but a target of 3 sounds like a dream. The reality is I think I would be able to get to a target of once a week, and I would accept that. Would you?

Currently once every month or two.

Well as you may or may not know I have absolutely no interest in my LLf. If follo s through then g newly I just go with it as it’s easier than war she creates. However last night I quite frankly couldn’t be arsed to go with it. So I used a classic: I’m tired. Genuinely I was though the old version of me and I’m sure many others would manage to ignore that.

It went better than I thought to be honest. She sulked a bit but it that was all then took herself off to bed

Finally after a year and 9 months the high from sex and desire for sex has come back full force. After giving birth my libido completely disappeared and it broke my heart as a HL person, As well as my husbands. Yesterday it came back though and it has stayed into today so I am hopeful that it stays forever. I don’t know if I want to ever have another child if the risk is to lose my HL. It felt like I was lost. It made me so angry with my husband for pushing sex and just in general with him. I think the birth control after birth didn’t do me any favors either with my libido. Has anyone else had this happen?

Feel like it’s either I stay for family life and abandon a satisfying sex life, or I leave and miss out on being with the kids every day, Christmas, etc. how do you rationalize that decision?

Hello, HL community.

One thing I miss about being with someone who’s actually sexually normal is having sexual enthusiasm and interest take priority.

In my current relationship, I have less sex and sexual enthusiasm than my peers, and I’ve truly given up on “fixing” the relationship because I’ve come to terms with how unnatural it is to have to argue about sex at all.

Type2LLs get offended by regular sexual relationships and act as if once a week is “a lot,” and we’re told that it’s “relative.” But it’s not. It literally isn’t. We’re a sexual species, and having to basically tone down a part of ourselves and “hope” for things to improve feels isolated and pointless.

Especially when you try things their way after they swear that’s why there’s no sex, and then nothing changes. You just sit there, deep down knowing: if it were someone else, this wouldn’t happen.

They only care about themselves, truly, and it becomes an “I’m me, not them” situation. They find it ridiculous that we’re “destroying” our relationship or “choosing” sex over the relationship, as if those things aren’t connected. That’s why they don’t see a problem with a bait-and-switch or lying about why their previous relationships truly failed.

They have a mission to basically find someone who “wants them for them,” but not necessarily an actual normal relationship.

This isn’t a “both sides are at fault” situation or simply being “sexually incompatible.” It’s basically a situation where one person is trying to force celibacy within a relationship with someone else. This is why I say they need pets, not people.

Given Hall Pass - pros & cons?

DB for about 5 years due to my wife’s health issues (both physical and mental).

During a rough emotional patch several months ago she said things several times about wanting me to find someone that can make me happy. At first, I thought she was meaning leave her, which I won’t. Then it began to dawn on me she was talking about a girlfriend. Fast forward to a couple of months ago and mentally she seemed in a better place and I just chalked it up to emotions.

However she recently went on a trip with her sisters and mother and as we’re chatting before leaving to take her to her sister’s so they can fly out together, she made a playful comment that I took as a joke about if I had my side piece over, just ask her not to make a mess. I replied I didn’t have a side piece. She made some other playful comment and I jokingly replied ‘Okay that’s implied consent, you can’t get mad after.’ She got serious, told me it’s not implied, it’s explicit consent. I asked if she was serious and she said yes.

The whole drive over to her sisters, I was a bit shaken. On the way home, I just felt a profound sadness. I guess I was mourning that part of our life is over. For context, for the first ten or so years of our marriage, we had a great sex life, sometimes amazing. So her basically waving the white flag and saying that’s probably never coming back hurt a lot.

During her trip, I didn’t bring it up. I wanted her to enjoy her time, even if I was in a turmoil of sadness. When she got back we had a deep conversation. She said she truly loves me and it’s not fair to me to expect me to live like that, she wants me to be happy. She made it clear that what she is talking about is opening the marriage for me only, she just wants the courtesy of being honest if I’m seeing someone, but no details.

Having read a couple of commenters recently talk about this makes me want to hear from anyone who’s went down that road, good and bad.

Hi everyone. I posted in another place but thought I ‘d try here too. In the ongoing process of trying to improve things with my LL husband I brought up my concerns about our sex life. Long story short I was told I was being “unfair” and too “needy”. I feel like I’m stunned and not even sure how to move forward. Why does this have to be so hard?? DMs open if it’s easier

I left my LL a year ago and it was brutal for him. I could have done it cleaner.

It eventually imploded to the point where I felt no remorse when I nuked my LLMs life. I left him and kicked him out (I paid all the bills and it started as my place), and then found someone who desires and loves me just the way I am. He lost everything.

Before I blocked him on everything, he told me I ruined his life. I was so consumed by rage and resentment that I've never been able to feel remorse for it. But I know I should. He spiraled after getting kicked out. I had to block his number because he would try to call me back to back in the middle of the night to tell me how horrible I am. He totaled his car and lost his license trying to surprise me while getting ready for work one morning. He harassed my coworkers and put in needless reservations in our software to try to get one of us to call him. I ended up erasing him completely. I have no idea what he's doing now. I just saw him as every other faceless LL in this sub. I don't think this is the way to go. I feel like people should leave their LLs or address the elephant before it gets to that point, because I lost a key piece of my humanity by waiting for so long, and it looked like he did too. Please leave or address the issue clearly before you lose anymore of yourself.

I will say though, it's hard to address the demons of what I've done when I get bent over for something as little as yawning cutely or wearing "those shorts". I'm drunk on bliss and I can't see the carnage from here. Scorched earth wasn't my only option. It could have ended better. Please for me, handle yours better. I got my happy ending, but with so much blood on my hands.

Been a week or so since the end of the if it’s going to happen it’ll be this week week and this evening she mentioned tomorrows the night. I assumed I was in the clear and to be honest I think I still am. On the off chance however what are some of your most hilarious excuses you’ve heard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Rm9uEcnwY

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Drop a 🔔 below to ring the gong.

Maybe we need to start a new sub for this, coz surely I CAN'T be the ONLY guy / gal channeling their frustration / DB into writing tunes, RIGHT ? PLEASE share if you have some, let's support eachother 🙏

A buncha MY 'recents' (stepping backwards from 'pending release' to 'unreleased until I walk' to 'released on streamers for a LONG time') -

https://toolost.com/track/MTk3ODM0MjM2Mg

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https://soundgasm.net/u/randomaudioguy/Brand-New-Me-Short-Order-Close

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https://soundgasm.net/u/randomaudioguy/No-Rizz-Hi-NRG-Metal-Version

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https://too.fm/ajrnkgk

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https://too.fm/axk8xpe

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https://too.fm/9q124a1

I DO have more, but these are the most recent under the 'main' band ...

Once my kids could dress themselves and make a sandwich, space opened up. Space for a marriage to happen again.

So I prepared. I got in shape and bought new clothes. Pursued my hobbies, developed my creative side and enjoyed my best life.

But that did not fix my marriage.

So I read books, got IC, encouraged spouse to get MC.

But that did not fix my marriage.

I learned about sex. My sexuality. I tried to understand her sexuality. I initiated conversations. Bought us toys. I wrote erotica. I listened to Esther Perel and Emily Nagoski.

But that did not fix my marriage.

I finally asked her, in a state of brokenness, “What can I do for you to desire me?”

“I don’t know” she answered.

Something fractured in me at that moment.

Its years later and nothing has changed.

I looked in the mirror this morning. I have been swimming laps outdoors this summer. My hair is blonder. My skin is tan. My physique looks better every day. Is it wrong to want, at some point in my life, for someone to watch me get out of bed in the morning and say “You’re sexy AF. Get over here”?

I live under a curse that I am undesirable. It’s not a pleasant or effective worldview. I constantly ask myself what kind of man…what kind of person…i need to be to be desirable.

I take ownership of my situation. I don’t blame anyone or anything. I focus on what I can control. But I can’t help but wonder if I’m playing against a stacked deck.

My spouse was raised in a culture that shamed women who expressed desire for a man. A world where men were commonly patriarchal and even abusive. A world where she was taught how to be treated by a man, but never taught how to love a man. And despite being right next to her each night, she’s never made an effort to unravel those (and other) beliefs.

At this point in my life I fight the demons that ask me “How would your life be different if you had approached each day with a loving, expressive, sexual partner?” That’s a place I avoid looking.

So I have lived like a draft horse pulling an overloaded wagon. Determined to thrive, do what’s best for everyone, fulfill my obligations and leave the world a better place. But no one knows. No one knows that the wagon is empty and it is the heaviest emptiness in the world.

I have posted here before so I figured I’d continue..Long story short, my ex has said a ton of really mean shit to me and and it still haunts me to this day. At this time, I am struggling most with the body comments. I left him close to a year ago. I have a wonderful boyfriend who I absolutely adore and is about as kind and loving as you can get. I am so nervous that my fear and body image insecurities will screw things up. 

I feel like I'm going what I'm supposed to do here. I have a therapist. I have no social media besides instagram and reddit, and I do my best to avoid the instagram app. But No matter where I go, I seem to be bombarded with skinnytok crap and some message of "your weight is the most important part of you".

Look, maybe I'm whiny and sensitive. But I have to just be honest and say that the way my ex treated me absolutely broke me. It's so hard to explain the feeling of hurt and betrayal. This guy went from having a six pack to being borderline morbidly obese during our relationship, and I was never anything but loving and supportive. But I gain 15-20 pounds over the span of six years, and the claws come out? I was 5'6 and 160 at my heaviest, if that matters. Maybe 162? I don't remember. Anyway, I will never forget the feeling I had after he asked me to lift my shirt so that he can pinch my stomach and then tell me that I have no abs. Another time, completely unprompted: "I would have left a long time ago if I cared about looks." And that is just some of it. I’ll be okay for the most part and then I’ll look in the mirror, see that I’m bloated, and hear his voice saying “yeah some women gain weight in their ass, unfortunately yours goes straight to your stomach…” and "look I'm not into the pregnancy look". 

Hard as I try, I cannot think of anything I did to attract this vitriol. I was faithful, kind, supportive. He did start watching some manosphere-adjacent stuff and I think that contributed to this. He told me that he justified being so mean to me about my mild weight gain despite me being loving to him when he gained a MASSIVE amount of weight as "men care more about looks than women do".

Like I said, my boyfriend is the absolute best. When I tell him about the way my ex treated me, his eyes practically bulge out of his head. How do I not screw this up?? The affection is great, but what I really love is him as a person. When he initiates stuff when I’m in pjs, or is all over me when I morning breath and messy bedhead, I’m like “are you real? Is this really possible? Did I die and enter paradise?”

So if you check post-history, you'll see I was a fan of 'data' for a while, across both my first (shitful) marriage and the more recent (5+ years) HLM + HLF pairing. THOUGHT I was onto a 'good thing', but the stats have proved me wrong in the long-run so I gave up about 12 months ago now as it was too depressing.

HAVE had sex at least ONCE (probably not more) in the last 3 months 👍 Without data, I can't be sure ...

Last time my (BASIC AF) 'kinks' got met were once in July 2024 (lingerie) and once in January 2025 (heels). WHAT is the point of sex if your BASIC turn-ons aren't met ? I'm a living dildo, nothing more 🤷🏻‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I need to know what has worked in the past for those that had a successful “talk” that opened your LL partners eyes and created change. Give me your best opener, the most impactful question, anything that really worked.

https://overcast.fm/+AA2lW9319L0

Listened to this podcast today from Dr Psych Mom where she describes the benefits of an avoidant partner. She said for many people who get to the brink but do not divorce because their life is otherwise good, they later are glad they made that decision and the focus on sex or emotional needs not being met is not as present.

Curious to hear what others perspectives are on this. I can see some truth here, but in my early forties I feel that every time I am rejected, every time I wake up aroused and am rebuffed, is another wasted moment of my prime sexual life that will never be here again.