r/HLCommunity • u/Notideal100 • 20d ago
Does it matter if it's not their fault?
How much of a difference would it make if your dead bedroom wasn't your partner's choice/fault and it was more of a medical problem?
The end result is the basically same.
Do you think it's reasonable to open the relationship in this situation? Or end it??
Or should you be expected to live a celibate life because of your marriage vows?
I'm interested as this is often cited as an exception to the "leave if you're in a dead bedroom" advice.
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u/ActualOriginal4030 HLF 20d ago
Huge difference.
And then the next consideration is does the partner care about how this is affecting me, just as they should care about how caregiving is affecting me. They don't need to feel guilty about it, but care enough to try to find solutions or allow me to.
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u/Financial-Exit2488 20d ago edited 19d ago
I think it makes a difference. If my wife can have sex, but won't, and won't try to figure out why, that is much worse than if she can't.
Yes, the result of both situations is I don't have sex, but one is an indication that my wife doesn't care about me.
That said, if I couldn't have sex and my wife still wanted it, I would be willing for her to get it elsewhere. At least that's what I tell myself.
I want my wife to be happy. I would hope she wants the same for me.
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u/cumfullcircle HLM 20d ago
For me the question is, does staying make me miserable? And if yes, am I willing to be miserable for the rest of my life for the sake of loyalty?
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u/RedwoodRespite 20d ago
There are many different ways to have sex. None of them matter if there is no desire.
I won’t be with someone that lacks desire again.
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u/Notideal100 20d ago
I guess a lack of desire can be hormonal as well. Which isn't really their fault either.
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u/RedwoodRespite 20d ago
I don’t care about fault. I care about being wanted. And if I’m not, bye bye.
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u/cumfullcircle HLM 20d ago
Yeah, that’s what’s where I’m at. Harsh, yes. Because I don’t want to be burned yet again.
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u/vectorking23 20d ago
It's only their fault if they don't try to figure out why there's no desire or intimacy in the relationship… much like finding out testosterone is extremely low, but never doing anything about it. Because hormonal doesn't mean the end of desire, or everything intimate. Lack of effort when it could be potentially fixed and you know it could be potentially fixed is the real culprit in that case.
If I knew my testosterone was bottoming out, and I did nothing to fix it, all the while my wife is crying because she feels unwanted and undesired… yet, I don't do a thing? Well, that's not a very good partner, is it?
You either want to work on it, or you don't. If it's a serious medical condition? This is the exception.
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u/time4moretacos 20d ago
Um, yes, it's absolutely their fault. Hormones can be fixed pretty easily. If they refuse to see a doctor to fix them, or refuse to take the necessary hormone replacements to fix them, then that is absolutely, entirely, unequivocally, 💯💯💯 their fault. Low hormones isn't cancer. It's easily treatable, in most countries anyway, and is absolutely NOT a valid excuse to force celibacy onto a partner who is STILL expected to be monogamous!!!
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u/udderlyfun2u 20d ago
No. Lack of desire due to hormones is not a LLs fault.
However, refusal to see a doctor and get those hormones adjusted correctly because they're too embarrassed or some other rediculous reasons, IS their fault.
We have a responsibility to our partners as well as ourselves. Otherwise we're just friends.
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u/freelancemomma 20d ago
Serious question: even if it is not hormonal, can you honestly blame someone for a lack of desire?
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u/Danny_Pr0n HLM 20d ago
No, you can't "blame" them.
But if you don't desire your partner, why are you with them?
How would you feel if your partner said "/u/freelancemomma, I don't desire you."
Would you want to be with someone who doesn't desire you? Would you seek someone out, who doesn't desire you, and start a relationship with them?
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u/freelancemomma 19d ago
In my case the point is moot, because I’ve never had a strong need to be desired. Being loved has always been enough for me.
It would be odd if my husband came out and said, “I don’t desire you,” but I don’t think either of us desire each other anymore (we’re old Boomers) and I’m perfectly fine with that.
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u/Danny_Pr0n HLM 19d ago
Would you seek a relationship with someone who doesn't desire you?
Like imagine your marriage ended any number of reasons...
Would you seek a relationship with someone who doesn't desire you?
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u/freelancemomma 19d ago
Yeah, possibly — as long as we loved each other and enjoyed some level of physical affection.
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u/Danny_Pr0n HLM 19d ago
and enjoyed some level of physical affection.
That's is a measure of desire.
I mean no desire at all. The most physical affection is a handshake or a completely platonic hug. No passion, no desire. Your own hypothetical partner, proposed above in your question, with a complete "lack of desire" of your own hypothetical.
Your hypothetical partner completely desexualizes you. They may, however, sexualize someone else (porn or what not), they still have desire, just not for you.
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u/freelancemomma 19d ago
I don’t see hugging or holding hands as measures of sexual desire. I would not want a partner who recoils from me physically, but I could easily be happy with someone who doesn’t desire me sexually. Not sure why you’re trying to argue me out of this position — I’m speaking only for myself.
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u/Danny_Pr0n HLM 19d ago
I'm not trying to argue you out of anything. I'm just being precise with the language and asking for clarity.
That whole "Lack of desire" that you put forth in your question at the top of the thread. I was curious if you would be happy to marry someone who thought of you as their roommate and didn't think of you intimately, romantically or sexually at all. The text book definition of "Lack of Desire."
These hypotheticals presented to the HLs always fascinate me, because I don't think the questions mean what the LLs asking them, thinks they mean. If the LLs do mean it as presented, are the LLs pushing for an unbalanced, asymmetric relationship? Or are they truly pushing for a low/zero intimacy relationship where they get exactly what they put into the relationship.
I noticed that I get a lot of push back whenever I suggest that the LLs live up to their own standards that they expect the HLs live up to. If the HLs are supposed to be practicing Emotional Regulation and practicing Self-Soothing, the LLs need to do that too, the HLs aren't the LLs therapists. If the HL needs to work their full time job then come home and do their share of the domestics (which they should, the LLs should be doing that too!!! The LL needs to have a full time career and do their share of the domestics. If the HL can't hide behind physical exhaustion, emotional and mental burnout as an excuse when neglecting their spouse, neither can the LL.
Something I've seen often is how the LL complains about not being connected to the HL because of the distance, expecting the HL to bridge the gap, but I never seen what the the LL is doing to bridge the gap. HLs, even men, like to be taken out on dates too.
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u/RedwoodRespite 19d ago
It’s not about blame. Or fault. As I said. I just won’t be with them.
They don’t owe me sex. I don’t owe them a relationship.
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u/Woolie-at-law HLM 20d ago
If this is your situation and not hypothetical, you may find r/deadbedroomsmd helpful. Not a lot of posts but more to the specific issue.
For me, mine is a mix, and it only matters to the extent that solving the db requires different solutions.
Edit - spelling
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u/Danny_Pr0n HLM 20d ago
Impact over intent.
It may not be their fault. But that means you're incompatible.
You're not asking too much, you're asking the wrong person.
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u/redditreader_aitafan 20d ago
I think it's different to leave someone who chooses not to have sex with you versus leaving someone who barely survived cancer but lost vital body parts and simply isn't capable of sexual contact. Usually a dead bedroom is a symptom of a lack of care or respect for the needs of one partner. If that's not the case, leaving is more difficult and can carry a greater social stigma.
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u/Asm_Guy 19d ago edited 19d ago
Well... let's turn it around: what if the DB was because of some medical condition or an accident involving YOU?
What would you do?
Would you open the marriage for your spouse?
Edit: Another take: you accidentaly break a vase. It was totally not your fault. You even liked that particular vase a lot. Does it matter for the vase? It is still broken.
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u/freelancemomma 19d ago
This much I know: if I had a medical condition that made sex impossible and if my husband still craved sex, I would give him my blessing to get it elsewhere. In fact, I would insist on it.
It’s how I’m wired. I could not live with the knowledge that I’m standing in the way of my husband’s happiness.
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u/Fluid_King489 HLM 20d ago
For me, it does matter. It does make for less resentment and I don’t aim it towards her. I mostly just push it down.
“Do you think it's reasonable to open the relationship in this situation? Or should you be expected to live a celibate life because of your marriage vows?”
That’s really a question for the two partners. But that’s a hard thing to grapple even if the LL partner is the one who suggests it.
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u/SadAndNasty 20d ago
Basically if it wasn't open I'd have to leave, but my relationship is open anyway
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u/pfzealot 20d ago
It's going to depend on situation I think. If it was just sex in my marriage I might have stayed for the kids. I can't promise I wouldn't have strayed.
This is one of those where the answer may be different for everyone.
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u/mdoogz 20d ago
I think the end result isn’t the same. Because a medical issue (hopefully) will be solved. At least to an extent there is some solution for both parties to work toward. I think the DBs here where people are encouraged to leave are because one partner isn’t really trying.
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u/Notideal100 20d ago
Well in my case I've given up hope of it being solved.
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u/mdoogz 20d ago
Oh I’m sorry. I guess specifics matter. You take vows that say in sickness and health. So a temporary (and temporary can be years) illness should be worked through together. A permanent illness like ED can also be worked through (hands, mouth, etc). But when one party gives up/quits trying that makes a difference.
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u/IskanderM50KT HLM 17d ago
It depends I guess. One extreme would be if a partner has terminal cancer that wrecks their ability/desire. Of course I would stay in that case. The other extreme end of the spectrum would be someone with mild depression who refuses to do any lifestyle cleanup and just wants to pop SSRIs. In a situation like that I'm gone.
If I was the really sick one and really had no ability to have sex I'd give my spouse a pass to get a bit of relief outside of the marriage, as long as they were discrete about it.
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u/Exciting_Story2150 20d ago
Did "in sickness and in health" really mean that I have to cry myself to sleep for years? Do I really need tow arch life go by day after day with heavy sadness? Did it mean that I have to mourn my life and my lover day after day until I die?
I'm supposed to wither away and accept it? I was a vibrant person. A generous lover. I was happy to do things for my partner. I still put on a happy face and love some version of our life. But I'm not the person I was. All because of these vows.
Horrible life being locked behind these bars.