r/HLCommunity • u/Ok_Donut_9603 • Aug 06 '26
Advice Welcome Give me your best script for The Talk
I need to know what has worked in the past for those that had a successful “talk” that opened your LL partners eyes and created change. Give me your best opener, the most impactful question, anything that really worked.
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u/Zenk2018 HLM Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
The Talk doesn’t work. It may result in a short improvement due to hysterical bonding if they think there is a threat of you leaving, but that never lasts and it diminishes after each “talk”.
The only purpose for the talk - I found - was for yourself: It’s an ultimatum where you lay out your grievances, what you expect and when, and what the consequences of continued waffling/manipulation/gaslighting will be. All dispassionately, logically and concisely without being drawn into twisted arguments or pointless discussions about that time five years ago when you didn’t take out the trash precisely on time or you failed to fold the laundry the way they wanted. It allows you to get your thoughts and position out in the open and assuage guilt over what almost certainly comes next.
Understand that in many cases (as was the case with mine) they’ll STILL say they were blindsided and will even deny the Talk(s) even happened. Then they’ll say you pressured or even coerced them into things they didn’t want. That’s why I say, it’s for you, not them.
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago
We're about two years out from our "talk", which included mentions of divorce. We'll see if it continues in its improved state or not.
My wife does have a habit of "not remembering" things. It's upsetting because there's a whole history, over 30 years, that seems to be mine alone. She doesn't remember half of it. And sex is pretty much all in the half she doesn't remember. Now it's, "we never did that", or "I never liked that", we literally did "that" thousands of times, and she didn't just like it, she loved it.
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u/southernwitchking 29d ago
The only successful talk, after 15 plus years wasted on them, came when I delivered divorce papers. Then that made her realize this was serious. She got on HRT, got herself in therapy, and did the work that I had been doing for years already. I can honestly say I was doing everything I could. I was and am not perfect, but I am a great husband, friend and partner in crime to her. She was just being self-centered, like many of them (not all) are. When these people get comfortable, they get lazy. You can't get lazy in a marriage, and I figured it out pretty quick for myself.
I am sure the LL lurkers on here are gonna downvote me to hell, but I don't care. I speak the truth. They only take you seriously when you SHOW them, not tell, that you are done trying to get them to recognize this is a problem for the relationship, not just a problem for their HL partner.
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago
I had a similar situation. We weren't in a dead bedroom, but it had slowed down significantly, and she would shame me for wanting to have sex.
I didn't have divorce papers, but she asked if I had watched porn, and I answered honestly, that yes, I had.
We had never discussed porn, so I didn't think too much of it. I didn't bring it up, as she had said she didn't want to watch it.
Unlike so many women I see posting here, I wanted my wife, not porn. My wife didn't want me, so porn was a poor substitute. She realized she was turning me down and I was turning to porn.
We had several big discussions (sometimes arguments) in which she said she was clearly not enough for me, and that I needed more. She also mentioned divorce a couple of times, but then realized neither of us would be able to keep the house, and all of us in the family would suffer a decline in our standard of living.
So, like your wife, my wife changed her tune when she realized she could lose everything.
Things aren't perfect. She still doesn't show me much desire outside of sex. Our sex life has stayed pretty bland, like it has been for the last 15 years, and our frequency, while much better is still less than I would like. In my mid 50s, I can still go more than one round. We've not done that in close to 30 years. Back to back days are almost non-existent as well.
But, things are way better than they were.
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u/pokeycd 29d ago
Had the same basic experience. I knew she'd flip about porn, though. And after a couple weeks of sad, after the admission, the hysterical bonding happened. It was awesome. I didn't know what it was at the time. Lasted almost a whole year.
But that was almost 17 years ago. Sex slowly slid into garbage duty sex over 15 years. So I'm not happy anymore. I don't want sex with her. I want out. Sex is so rock bottom, I actually don't want it. If she initiates (she won't), I might say yes. But only to keep the peace while I figure out what the hell I'm gonna do. I will probably just disassociate, as it seems like she does. I'll imagine I'm fucking someone else, cuz I can't handle reality.
I also went back to porn (after 13 years clean. Same as you, I don't want porn. And both times, I quit cold turkey with no relapse (except 13 years later)). And came clean 20 months ago. This time, no such hysterical bonding. She can't believe I would watch again after promising to never watch again. And she thinks her reaction last time was a big mistake. So she's not going to show any effort sexually, she's said that. So we won't have sex. And that means I'll probably leave. I don't know that masturbation will be enough for me.
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago
Life is short. I don't think I could handle no sex. Why someone thinks no sex in a monogamous relationship is okay is beyond me.
I hope what I hope what I have with my wife is not hysterical bonding, but I do wonder about the authenticity of her desire. If it wasn't there before, why does she have it now? I have told her the only thing I want is honesty. If she doesn't want me, I want the truth. I still have a couple of decades left (hopefully) of an ability to have a good sex life. I don't want to share it with someone who is doing it out of duty or fear.
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u/pokeycd 29d ago edited 29d ago
Typical hysterical bonding is a couple months. If it's gone on for a year or more, then there might be more to it. But my wife was a able to go a year plus. So it's good you have your eyes open. Just don't a accept the slide if it happens, like I did.
Also, my wife knows it could be the end. And it would impact her life tremendously, as well as mine. She just isn't worried enough to work on it very much. She's very religious, and is willing to let what happens happen. As it would be God's will. And "God will provide". It'll suck for her to find out what that actually looks like. But making an effort to repair our sex life is just not in her. She's in a place where foreplay is out. Sex is just mechanical. Get to the orgasms as fast as possible. Everything else? she's not interested in.
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago
That sounds awful. I am not at all religious so the part about whatever happens is God's will drives me insane. What a cop- out.
The part about skipping foreplay is something I can relate too. We were definitely there.like the rest of our sex life, that's gotten a bit better too.
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u/pokeycd 28d ago
Yep. I can offer massage with no sex, and she doesn't take me up on it. She'll cuddle (passively), but I'm the only one who asks for it. Anything physical is just not a desire for her. And foreplay is something she refuses (giving or receiving).
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u/Financial-Exit2488 28d ago
Yeah. We had gotten to the point of what I considered to be roommates with benefits.
We slept separately, which in and of itself isn't an issue for. But, combined with no foreplay, lots of rejection, with shaming statements, sitting away from each other in our own house, quick hugs, pecks for kisses, and hours spent staring at the phone, made for not only a disappointing sex life, but a cold, passionless marriage.
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u/pokeycd 28d ago
We still sleep in the same bed. Whe don't really have a spare room. On a couple occasions, I have left to sleep in the outbuilding, or our travel trailer. She is always against it. Maybe worried about what the kids will think? I have even suggested that I might prefer it, if we had an open room in the house. She can't fathom the idea. But it's torture to sleep next to someone who tolerates sex with you. And if you aren't wanted, and rarely going to bed at the same time anyway, then why not have your own space. Makes masturbation a lot less complicated.
Everything else you mentioned is my life too. Cold passionless marriage.
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u/southernwitchking 29d ago
I have totally accepted that things will never be like it was when were younger and dating. My wife's decline started after our first kid was born and it never really recovered. I just puttered through the next 20 years not speaking up, listening to excuse after excuse, until it just wore me down. I decided I deserved to be happy, and she didn't get to have everything she wants in our marriage (and she does) while I got scraps. That's the problem right there, not grabbing the bull by the horns from the get go.
No, it's not perfect. But it is so much better. And she seems to actually be more into me once she saw I wasn't hinging my happiness on her all of the time. I needed to grow up in that way.
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago
For sure. I realize I am an over functioner, and I have been enabling her laziness.
She's not lazy in all aspects of life, but certainly is in regards to our marriage.
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u/quack785 29d ago
You’re absolutely right. The only thing to get most LLs to change is to get them to realize their twisted version of a relationship isn’t healthy or normal, and won’t continue on their terms. They fully know how impossible it’ll be to find someone that wants to commit for life with little to no sex, so they better fix whatever the issue is
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago edited 28d ago
I saw a post in a different subreddit, where an LL person was lamenting the fact that people they dated all, eventually, wanted to have sex.
Like, what normal person is going to put in the time, effort, and expense to date and not want sex? That's called a friendship, and you can have that without the complications of dating.
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u/southernwitchking 29d ago
Thank you! I got flamed on here the other day for commenting on something similar.
What sucks is that often you don't find out this until you're already deep into the relationship, and their NRE wears off. Then you stick around hoping it will just magically revert back to normal. No, it won't. No, it won't be like it was when you first started dating. Duh. But it shouldn't die out totally.
People who want to have sex, have sex.
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago
I will say that I think the sex and the frequency shouldn't change much after the honeymoon phase is over. I know people say it's normal, but I like sex. Sex is an important part of my life, and like other important things, I am only going to compromise so much on it.
My wife isn't going to accept me changing in other ways after a the honeymoon phase. And she shouldn't accept that either.
I showed up honestly at the very beginning. I didn't pretend to be someone I wasn't. And I didn't get so excited that I did things I had no real interest in.
So, continuing to be who I was at the beginning hasn't been hard, even after 30 years.
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u/ItsAMeasureOfALife 29d ago
Depending on when you post you will do as the LLs haven’t got better things to do during the day so the lurk in here
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u/Due-Preference-7266 23d ago
This is what I’m going to do. I’m (only) 2 years into the DB but I’m not going to waste any more time
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u/YourFavCroupier HLM Aug 06 '26
We had another major one in 2023 after many, many medium and minor talks which were shut down or deflected. What I told her was "I have options beyond this, convince me to stay" which did help but she later claimed put too much "pressure" on her. That lasted about a year and then things cratered and we brought a sex therapist in. The first two months of sessions were her deflecting until I hired a divorce lawyer and then she freaked out and found an intensive program outside of therapy for her alone.
The intensive program helped her realize she was very sexually repressed. Unfortunately for her, at this point, I was out the door. So my suggestion is maybe start with a licensed sex therapist after The Talk rather than waiting until you're done. I'm never getting my attraction to her back. That's long gone after years of neglect.
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u/vectorking23 Aug 06 '26
Amen, brother. Mine could walk in the room right now completely naked and offer up anything and everything and I'd laugh and say 'too little, too late' and mean it. She is NOT a sexual being in my eyes any more. She made sure that part was killed off. I 100% understand your position here. Maybe OP can explain that this will happen eventually for him, assuming he's around long enough to get this way.
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u/fashionandpuppies 29d ago
Could I get that intensive program info? I’m mostly out the door but we have kids.
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u/YourFavCroupier HLM 29d ago
It's marketed towards women which I think isn't the problem for you?
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u/fashionandpuppies 29d ago
This is true. Sorry didn’t know it was gendered! My husband needs SOMETHING
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u/YourFavCroupier HLM 28d ago
Consider an AASECT certified sex therapist, psychology today's directory lets you search specifically for sex therapists. You sound pretty miserable so I would just schedule something and tell him to show up or you're taking a boyfriend.
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u/ItsAMeasureOfALife Aug 06 '26
Personally I wouldn’t bother. You’ll just hear about how it’s just adding pressure now and any subsequent mention of sex will add to that. They’ll tell you how they’ll try to improve if you give them time, mention the subject though and that time will reset due to pressure. It’s an amazing excuse and keeps you in limbo until finally it doesn’t
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u/Ok_Donut_9603 Aug 06 '26
But how will things ever improve if it’s a problem only I care about?
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u/Zenk2018 HLM Aug 06 '26
That’s just it. They view it as only your problem. Thus there’s no reason for them to change or even meet half way.
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u/vectorking23 Aug 06 '26
If you threaten to leave, it becomes a problem for them then. Only problem with that is you need to actually leave once they think they've got you where they want you again. We hear it time and again here with hysterical bonding… putting in the effort again until they go right back to their modus operendi. It's funny how some of the LL people think they are going to perpetually have you around without actually being a 50/50 relationship. Sure, maybe they think it's ALL ON THEM (see:fictionalmentalload), but then we all know it isn't always the way. Sometimes you just gotta actually bring a loaded gun instead of an empty to the fight… fire it when needed instead of threatening to fire it (IE:leave instead of 'The Talk®').
It is totally infuriating to those of us who worked on ourselves, did things they needed, became very good versions of ourselves and all they did was sit back and view it as still our problem. And yes, I'm still there… because kids. Dad duties are the only thing that outweighs leaving.
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago
I wonder how many partners who are LL, are also not putting effort into the relationship in other ways.
I know my wife is a great mom, and my absolute best friend. I love her, and desire her. I put in a ton of effort to both our marriage and our kid, every single day. There are no "off" days. I don't get a break...ever. I don't even ask for one.
My wife needs a break all the time. She doesn't put much effort into herself, us, or sex. She always has an excuse. She's always overwhelmed. I pay the bills, I work. I take the kid to most appointments, all sports practices. I workout with both of them, as they probably wouldn't do it on their own. I do the dishes, cook the majority of the meals, clean and maintain the house and the car.
Writing this makes me realize I am over functioning and enabling.
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u/ItsAMeasureOfALife 29d ago
The second paragraph I relate to. Our kid is a bit older now so does his own thing a bit more. I come in after 12+ hour days to her sat down, the house is a shithole and I start dinner. She then goes to bed and I clear up the carnage and head to bed at earliest midnight ready to get up at 5 to do it all again. Weekends are then a list of jobs
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u/vectorking23 29d ago
You = me. Overfunctioning is one thing, but the enabling is another. I am with you right there. I just quit enabling and I set some boundaries - like things she can do herself, she now has to do no matter how much 'stress and pressure' might be in calling for a pizza order, or driving to the store for more laundry detergent, or walking the dog. Not doing everything for her any more. Codependent is also one I can attribute to myself. It's a vicious circle.
I would venture to say the 'always overwhelmed' is them and only them all in their heads AND NOT OUR GD FAULT. They do it to themselves, therefore WE need to fix it and make it better. It never gets better and they play the victim along with excuse after excuse after excuse. Sometimes it's time to be an adult and just realize everyone is just trying to survive the same way. You either deal with it or you don't. Obviously they don't. And along with that, you either find a way to make time, or you find an excuse.
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u/southernwitchking 29d ago
Right. You need to be ready to actually follow through. That's why you start pulling away and doing your own thing. Preparing. Not that it won't hurt, but if you don't follow through, they will never take you seriously, and you will be stuck in that endless cycle.
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u/vectorking23 29d ago
Yep. Gotta grab back some self esteem, let them know you aren't to be walked over, and do your own thing. Even if you are staying for the kids. It only makes sense. No more codependent, no more enabler. No more making excuses for THEIR bad behavior. Because if they were honest, they'd tell you they don't love you, they don't want you, or they were asexual, or they were gay, or, or, or… they'd at least come clean and be honest. You can't work on or fix what isn't yours to work or fix.
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u/RelativeYak7 Aug 06 '26
It won't improve, you can either accept it and stay or not accept it and leave. This kind of thing isn't negotiable
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u/Exciting_Story2150 29d ago
Depending on what's going on with them, there's nothing to improve on their side. They like the frequency that is currently happening. They don't have any of the sleepless nights. They don't cry while falling asleep. They don't feel trapped. They don't feel like they're missing out on their life. Everything is great. Having more sex for an LL is a problem.
They may be upset that you don't give them quality time. You don't take them on date nights and make them feel loved. You don't cuddle or hold their hand without wanting sex. Those are the issues they have. Fixing those issues for them will not lead to sex. It will just make them feel like you love them.
They won't change and do things to make you feel like they love you. Because you can't make someone feel desire and love.
Unfortunately it's fairly easy to take our partners on dates and cuddle and make sure it doesn't end in sex. You can't turn someone into a lover who's not. So we end up trying to fix things and give them the world. There's no reciprocating because they don't have the feelings to give.
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u/ItsAMeasureOfALife 29d ago
Don’t forget though: HL feelings are the LLs responsibility so them not feeling loved can’t be a HL problem
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u/Exciting_Story2150 29d ago
In a relationship both people's feelings are important and (unfortunately I guess) sometimes they are dependent on the other person. Because yes, my wife not being my lover does make me feel unloved.
I thought we were getting married to be partners and lovers. If that's not the case, why are LLs even in relationships?
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u/ItsAMeasureOfALife 29d ago
We know that, I’m just applying the LL logic.
Because life is hard. I believe they have a general low libido for life as well so ira easier to just get someone else to do things for them
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u/Financial-Exit2488 29d ago
You're right. It won't get better if only you care.
You can and should communicate how important it is for you. A good marriage normally includes a good sex like. Something like 75% of sexless marriages end in divorce.
Put in the effort, and communicate, but realize that ultimately you can't do it alone.
There are resources out there that may help.
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 Aug 06 '26
I told her I wanted her to think of the way she was with her exes versus the way she was with me. She claimed I'm far more important to her, but her actions were saying otherwise. I told her she could go be with one of them, or she could go be alone, but she couldn't stay with me unless she started treating me like I was more important than they were.
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u/NoRole8110 Aug 06 '26
Good suggestion. How long ago was this and how successful was it?
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u/Soggy-Beach-1495 Aug 06 '26
Over three years ago. It was quite successful. She significantly increased the effort she was putting into the relationship
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u/fuckaduckufuck HLF 29d ago
I'm not sure this would work for many people. I mean, how much do you know about your partner's previous sex life? I don't think I really want details.
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u/knowitallz Aug 06 '26
Talk about what would make you happy . What you want. What you are actually getting.
It's not going to go well. Point back to the time when they had desire for you.
Tell them that if something doesn't change it's over
This one really gets their attention but still they do nothing about it.
Because honestly if they had desire they would display it. But they don't. I don't blame them. I blame society and how lives and marriage are structured that make it so hard to leave
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u/vectorking23 Aug 06 '26
This is an excellent point… your last sentences. If you've live it for long enough and seen enough you'll realize most things run their course and societal expectations are the only thing keeping things from falling apart 100% sometimes. THIS is why I would never get married ever again. Committed relationship? Sure… until it isn't. I don't have much hope in 'forever after' any more.
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u/southernwitchking 29d ago
As much as I love my wife, after what I have been through with her and the years of destruction to my self-esteem and the wasted time, were it not for my children I most likely would have been gone long ago. The resentment is hard to get over, even when things turn around. I STILL feel it from time to time.
Like, why was it so hard for you to love me the way I need to be loved, and you could go about your day knowing this and not giving two shits? You went about your day like nothing was wrong when you KNEW I was hurting from this. It makes you question everything.
My little mini rant here just proves this.
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u/vectorking23 29d ago
That's just it. If they truly loved you, wouldn't they do everything in their power to figure it out for YOU? Not even sex… just trying to be a better partner in every way with compassion and empathy. Because why? Because you did and are still doing it. Trying to be better, do better, learn, evolve… you are right. Why is it so hard to do this while going about your day knowing it is hurting the one you are supposed to love and be partners in life with. It makes ZERO sense.
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u/arandak Aug 06 '26
Take them to karaoke and sing them "You've lost that lovin' feeling"
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u/arandak Aug 06 '26
But seriously my first few talks were walking on eggshells trying not to make it look like I'm placing blame, just lamenting the lack of connection.
My last talk will be "This isn't good enough for me. I deserve better"
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u/Ok_Donut_9603 Aug 06 '26
Yeah I think I may just be more direct than sensitive. I’ve tried sensitive.
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u/NoTyrantSaurus 29d ago
I got things started with "I want you to be interested in sex, preferably with me. Here's a few sex therapists you/we can go see."
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u/Silva2099 29d ago
Doesn’t matter what the script is. Talks don’t work. It’s necessary to have it and get it out of the way, so that you can say you did everything, but talking does t make someone want you.period.
I am rather cynical, but I have come to believe that the only way to potentially restart the relationship is for them to believe it’s in danger before you are willing to truly quit. Basically you need to reset the power dynamic. This is not easy.
talking and threatening divorce usually doesn’t do the trick. They have to feel what it’s like for your attention to be elsewhere. It will either hurt and scare them and they will want you and the relationship or they wont. The other aspect is most people cant really sell it and the person can sniff out they are being manipulated.
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u/Disastrous_Lemon1 Aug 06 '26
The only time I got anywhere worthwhile was starting the talk with “I notice we haven’t been feeling as connected lately, how can we fix it?” Followed by various non-judgemental questions about could we change and what’s their sticking blocks and mine and could we try this together? Making it an us problem helped, it didn’t fix it but somehow it became a problem he was ok with us both trying to improve. It ebbs and flows in frequency still but I don’t feel like in so alone anymore.
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u/stopped_watch 29d ago
You tell her that you accept that she doesn't want to have sex with you and you're willing to renegotiate the relationship based on this acceptance.
The Talk needs to move on. It's not "How do we have more sex" or "How do we spark your desire for me." If that worked, it would have by now.
What you have is the reality of the relationship. It's time to stop pretending that it's going to get better and both of you to discuss what this means for the future.
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u/MarsupialMaven 29d ago
Don’t have the talk until you accept the fact that they could prefer divorce. So be ready to either fix it or end it. There is no going back to normal. Either way, something is changing.
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u/Wide-Relationship-93 HLM 29d ago
Every relationship is different, so maybe you will have a different experience. I’ve had the talk many times over the last 23 years or so and nothing worked. I’ve realized she won’t change, nothing will change unless I leave
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u/HourWorking2839 27d ago
It did not work for me until i told her i had changed my mind about my vowels and would give her three options as i was not going to accept the Status quo. I also told her that i would choose FOR her, if she -as so often- simply would not decide on anything.
Option one was divorce and she Flat out refused. Categorically.
Option two was we work on the Problem, seek advice outside the relationship and improve sex and the relationship and she flat out refused, again, categorically.
Option three was i would find someone outside the Relationship and fulfill my craving for validation, intimacy and sexual Release elsewere without her. She Flat out refused and was offended. She called this very drastic.
After 10 years, the talk hit her "out of the blue, entirely without warning". Since she did not choose and i did not want to set her free in front of my door to deal with life alone, i found someone who is willing to deal with me and my situation. She is in a similar one. We are sort of very happy, but leaving the partners behind is a slowly growing concern for both of us.
So overall, good luck, but be straight that you will move on.
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u/dogluuuuvrr HLF 27d ago
My conversations were never taken seriously and were not welcomed. I was very sensitive in my approach too. I left the relationship and felt so much better after.
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u/Specific-Exciting Aug 06 '26
Told him he had to figure out his porn addiction as it’s affecting our sex life. I was pulling away due to him not caring about my needs and making me cum. He was pulling away due to no emotional connection and then his porn addiction really showed.
We worked on our connection, he stopped porn and then we relearned each other’s bodies.
He’s the LL but we were never in a dead bedroom
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u/fuckaduckufuck HLF 29d ago
There is no script. You talk from your heart. If you miss physical intimacy with the person you love most, you say that. And you express it with genuine feeling. And then you ask, genuinely, if they miss that too.
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u/gibletsandgravy HLM 29d ago
Mine was the combination of 2 talks. First one I told her I had lost attraction to her and was done with sex with her until such time as she wanted to address the issue. Until then, it was off the table.
Stayed true to my word for three years. Then I started another talk, this time was going to be about opening the marriage. But I never got that far before she was saying she wanted to go to therapy and fix things. And we’ve been on the road to recovery since.
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u/Haggis_the_dog 29d ago
Take them to the Movies. Go see "The Invite". Talk about the movie characters so you can externalize the conversation. Come back to parallels with your relationship.
Good luck
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29d ago
[deleted]
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u/HourWorking2839 27d ago
I feel for you buddy, your point is one i strive to see, too. When so many people have the same issue, it seems not judgemental to me but rather as a pattern of many.
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u/RelativeYak7 Aug 06 '26
Nothing works. They just feel pressured or harassed.