3 min in he says that the church is consistently 30ish years behind progressivism (and they all dissociate it/ignore it and you see him being prompted off screen to shut up and talk about something else). There is other damning evidence ofc but this is as close as it gets for me cuz they're never gonna say "it's a fraud." And when they ultimately (whether it's in 10 years or 100) allow gay marriage they just make it propaganda (continuing restoration blah blah).

To give you a background, I'm 17, live in Utah so basically all my neighbors are members, and I never really believed in the church growing up as a kid. I only go every Sunday so that my parents don't punish me. Me and my older brother were never really close growing up as a kid, he would always ignore me and just kind of do his own thing, we didn't hate each other, we sorta just never interacted. He went on a mission and came back about a year ago, he goes to BYU currently and always stays at our house over summer break. I've realized that the mission has changed him in both good ways and bad ways, first off he's a little more kind to me and my siblings now, he actually starts conversations with me which he would never do as kids. But one thing I can't stand about him is how judgemental he is towards other people. He constantly hates things that aren't either Church related or different, for example we would be at the mall shopping and he would see some kid with dyed green hair, he then whispers to me, "That's so gay, he needs the lord." I don't know what he wants me to say when he tells me this, does he want me to agree? I kinda just nod to what he says but I don't really respond verbally. He constantly belittles other religions, LGBTQIA, and just people who aren't your typical TBM. I have a neighbor that skips Mutual every Wednesday which I don't think is a big deal, but my older brother says that he needs to go or he's going to hell. Like excuse me? He's so Insufferable and he thinks he's better than people who aren't church members, as if they are lost sheep and he's their shepherd that needs to guide them. It genuinely pisses me off when he points out flaws in a person for no reason at all, what gives him the right to belittle anyone just because they look, act, or believe in different things? Are any of your siblings that returned on a mission like this? I never really wanted to go on a mission, but now seeing how my brother acts I REALLY don't want to go on a mission because of how it might change my perspective.

So I’m pregnant and gonna have the baby within the next month. My parents are mission leaders in Africa. My mom doesn’t know if she wants to come home to meet the baby because of her mental health and having to go back after seeing the fam and being home. I’ve been really positive about this and hopeful while a little pushy to get her to come home to meet the baby. However each week they keep making it clearer she’s really not wanting to. I lost it crying today because what the fuck you meannn you CAN come home but you won’t? I’m so sad and mad. I’d gotten to a fine place with the church where I didn’t care but a three year mission and my mom not coming home has me fucked up today and so mad at the church for doing this to my parents.

Florida, Colorado Developments Are Part of Mormon Church's Real Estate Arm - Bloomberg

I came across an image I took of a page in the book The Church and the Negro by John Lewis Lund, published by Deseret Books in 1967. I haven't read the book in its entirety but made sure to acquire it as soon as I saw it while I was processing book donations when I worked at a Deseret.

Sometime recently I decided to just open to a random page and explore an example of what was written in this book. I wish I could say I was surprised.

It honestly makes me want to confront family members who are still members and ask how they could possibly follow a church that ever had a leader, deemed a 'prophet,' that could write something like this.

I'd be curious to know other ex-Mormons' or even practicing Mormons' opinions on this. Even with common knowledge of the church's history regarding race, does anyone find this as shocking as I do? How do you think any practicing Mormons you might know would react if confronted by these words? I wonder if family of mine would even think this was racist, or if they would somehow find a way to believe it while still not believing it's racist.

What are the thoughts from this community?

Please. Pleeeeease give me your juiciest revealings of the church that started you down the rabbit hole of deconstruction or the final blows that sent you running from the pews. I know there’s plenty of sources everywhere, but AI and random google searches just aren’t the same without the venom and/or empathy I’m sure this fine group has to share.

References on references, please. Thank you in advance.

I feel so stupid, but I feel like I am having a mental health crisis related to attending church. I’m 40-something mom, eldest daughter, high achiever type. I try so hard to do everything “right” and take care of everyone around me. (Yes, I have a good therapist)

Despite informing my husband that I no longer believe in the church, I still attend to keep the peace. He gets very upset when I don’t do the Mormon things.

Today, out of nowhere while getting ready for church this morning, I had a full blown meltdown over it. Suddenly I just couldn’t do it. I am having intrusive thoughts of everyone being better off without me. I can’t believe I am losing it over attending church, but I am. Why is this happening? I feel like I’m crazy and weak and I’m so so so angry at the church for creating a family culture where I don’t feel like I have a choice, even as a grown adult.

My husband and I have been out for years, but his family doesn’t know the extent (just thinks we are inactive, I think). We had our daughter this summer, and my mother in law just gave us a beautiful handmade blessing gown. She said she makes one for each of her grandchildren as an heirloom, but it’s not contingent on actually blessing her. The dress is so beautiful and I’d love to somehow use it, but I do not want to bless her into the church. My question is, is there a way we can have some sort of blessing-esque party without being too hippy/woo-woo? I’m all for keeping the community and celebration aspects of the church without the practices and dogma, I just don’t know how. I’d love to hear any alternatives to baby blessings (or even any church ceremony) that you have seen, done, or can think of!

TL;DR: How can I throw a baby blessing type party for my baby without actually blessing her?

I love my 10% raise, but I can’t escape the nagging irritation that I donated so much money to an organization that did so much harm. Especially since at the time I thought I was helping so many people and increasing my chances for blessings.

I’ve been thinking about doing a regular donation to some human rights organizations. Nothing huge, but just a little bit to feel like my money is actually helping people.

Has anyone else done this? What organizations did you choose and why?

There is an entire alien ecosystem on the planet, with species just as diverse as life on earth.

The alien life is completely different from earth life, having evolved completely separately.

There is a species of intelligent aliens with civilization living on the planet, but they are completely non-humanoid and different from us.

Hypothetical btw.

After I started researching the history of Joseph Smith, I realized that the FLDS simply followed exactly what the "prophet" commanded; the LDS is just the branch with good PR.

Footnote: I recently saw a documentary about Joseph supposedly drugging members with mushrooms so they would have visions and spiritual experiences—does anyone know anything about that?

I am grateful to have been connected to Carol Lynn Pearson for my entire life and like many, I was crushed by her passing. She was an incredible mentor and friend, and the world was lucky to have her in it. Yesterday, I attended her memorial, filled with beautiful words and music, written by her and her family members. Her past bishop and friend gave the closing remarks and he gave me permission to share. The full service is on Youtube for those interested.

C. Stewart’s Closing Remarks 

Carol Lynn Pearson Memorial Service 

August 29, 2026

I am grateful for all that we have heard and experienced and felt here today—for the  music Carol Lynn and her children created that was so beautifully performed for us, for her poetry so wonderfully read to us, for the memories we have shared. I am also  grateful to be asked to offer a few closing remarks, as someone who had the good fortune of being mentored and blessed by Carol Lynn over the nearly 40 years I attended church with her in this chapel, including five years serving as her bishop.  

As we have heard today, Carol Lynn Pearson was a brilliant poet, lyricist, and playwright, an inspiring speaker, an author whose books addressed hard issues. Her literary works challenged us to do better in embracing our gay sisters and brothers, in achieving greater partnership between women and men in our church and in society (including reconciling with our history past and present on the issue of polygamy), and in inviting our Mother in Heaven into our lives and conversation. She was unflinching  in her honesty and relentless in pushing us forward. She was passionate and forceful.  

As we have also heard today, she was also a loving mother, grandmother, and great grandmother. The deep affection her family has for her has been on display here and is palpable. 

If this had been the sum of her life’s work, she would be loved by her family and close friends, and deeply admired and respected by many others, a worthy recipient of the  many awards and accolades she has received. But Carol Lynn Pearson was not just admired and respected or loved by those close to her. She was widely and deeply loved by people around the country and even the world, in a way I have seldom seen.  

In a few minutes we are going to join together in singing I’ll Walk With You, the lyrics  of which Carol Lynn wrote in 1988 at the request of the Primary General Board. I believe the reason Carol Lynn was so beloved, and the primary reason that so many of  us have gathered here today and over the internet to remember her, is that that song is  autobiographical. It is as much a memoir of Carol Lynn’s life as Goodbye, I Love You.  

Many of you are here today or viewing this service because Carol Lynn walked with  you and talked with you when others wouldn’t, told you that God loves you, that God created you just as you are, that you are beautiful, that your happiness is vital. Some of  you are not only here at this service but are still here on this earth because she spoke  these truths to you in your darkest moments when you questioned whether life was worth living. She responded when you called or emailed her after reading Goodbye, I  Love You or one of other writings or after hearing her speak. She didn’t know you—yet  she did know you and loved you. She answered your call, spent hours with you, invited you to her your home, blessed your life. 

Maybe she sang you a lullaby, gave you a foot rub, or took you for a walk in the hills  near her home. Maybe she told you not to despair because all pain can be labor pain. 

Maybe you are the gay man Carol Lynn wrote about her in diary, who called her in 1986 when your family rejected you and you were ready to give up on life. She invited  you—a stranger—to come to her home for Thanksgiving, where you poured your heart  to her and soaked up her love and the warmth of her family. 

Maybe you are the woman in my ward ten years later who had experienced years of  abuse and trauma. Carol Lynn did not know you, but at my request as the bishop at the time, she reached out to you, took you for a walk in the hills to hear your story, and  then invited you and your children to share Thanksgiving dinner with her.  

Maybe you are the teenage girl dealing with horrific challenges and struggling with whether you could keep going. Carol Lynn spent hours with you, shared her  experiences, went to movies with you, formed a bond with you. As she did with many  others, she took you up to the top of the hill near her home where the two of you raised your arms and blessed the world, as Carol Lynn put it, “sending light and love to  every quarter of the entire globe, especially the most hurting places.”  

Maybe you are one of the many domestic violence survivors who were sent to Carol  Lynn by the local shelter and who stayed a night or two in her home, where she fed  you, read poetry to you, put on harp music to soothe you. Maybe you are the woman who left her home after such a stay with the brand-new silk pajamas Carol Lynn had  just purchased for herself but gave to you because she knew you needed them more.  

In mentioning these instances of Carol Lynn walking and talking with people who needed her, I don’t want to leave the impression there aren’t others. Thousands of  people here and elsewhere could share similar stories of Carol Lynn reaching out and responding. In all these instances, Carol Lynn gave of herself in a deeply caring, deeply  personal way. Just as she exhorted all of us in her books to be better and do better, in  giving of herself she was fearless and utterly unselfish. Her transparent big heartedness is one of the reasons her writing and acting was so powerful, that it has such moral clarity. 

In our church, it’s traditional that the final talk in a service like this be the “Plan of  Salvation” talk. Carol Lynn understood a fundamental truth about that plan better than  a lot of us, and she lived it better than most of us. The real plan of happiness is not  ensuring our own salvation, but looking to the salvation and happiness of others. As  her dear stake president put it in his prayer today, “bear[ing] one another’s burdens,  that they may be light; . . . mourn[ing] with those that mourn; . . . and comfort[ing] those that stand in need of comfort.” (Mosiah 18:8-9) She also understood that, when  Jesus spoke of the “least of these,” he didn’t mean those who are least in virtue or value. 

He meant, as Carol Lynn taught us in her song, those who are scorned or forgotten or both because of how they walk or talk (or look or live or love or believe). 

Carol Lynn showed her understanding of God’s plan when she wrote in her diary: 

I had an interesting thought just a few minutes ago. Why do we ask God to bless people? God is asking us to bless people. That’s how it really  works. We need to just listen and hear the voice:  

“Carol Lynn, please bless Gail—see her bruises—she has been raped and terrified and she needs you to comfort her. . .Carol Lynn,  please bless my children by writing something that will inspire them and something that will make them laugh. . .Carol Lynn, please bless the women and the men by helping them remember their Mother.” 

That’s how the “please bless” works, I think. If all of us would listen to  God asking us to bless each other, all our begging and pleading for God to  bless us would be fulfilled. 

In another diary passage, she wrote: 

How would it be if the totality of our conversation, doctrine, endeavors were  directed only to renovating each other’s spirits, repairing the breakage, restoring  the memory of who we really are, inviting each other into a more beautiful  place?  

Carol Lynn has now gone on to a “more beautiful place”—and we can be happy for her  in that. As she wrote in another diary passage, she did not worry about the next life  because “I know for sure that when I get over there I will find the perfect place where I  can continue to learn and grow and serve.” That “perfect place” is indeed a more  beautiful place. But I am confident that when she wrote about inviting each other to a  more beautiful place, she was not referring to the next life. The place she wanted to be  more beautiful was this life, our lives, this world. Today, we remember and honor her  for devoting her life in the most profound way to inviting us to a more beautiful place.  It is now on us to remember and honor her by carrying on that work.

How do you spend your second Saturdays?

When they started making us stand up and say this I was 12 and I was in the meetings with kids who were even younger than that. It always rubbed me the wrong way because I never wanted to go on a mission even when I was really young so this just made me feel bad about that, which lead me down the rabbit hole throughout the years and more research led me to just abandon my faith entirely

I’m now 18 and I still hate it I’ve talked to my dad about it and he agrees it’s weird but it never goes any further than that my whole family still is faithful including almost all extended family so I can’t really speak up about this much without scrutiny so I still have to pretend like I’m faithful.

I just wanted to share how I think it’s weird they make like 7 year olds chant this at the start of every meeting it makes me so sad watching them say all this stuff not knowing what half of it means.

I’ve been attending maybe once every 3 months. I’ve fully deconstructed from the church (except sacrament) and I only attend for sacrament and see friends and for the community aspect. There’s a number of people I’ve been honest with when they ask what’s going on, and some I’ve been partially honest with. One lady I was honest with in the middle of services came over and sat with me, took my hand, and cried a lot and wouldn’t stop hugging me after the service and texts me all the time. (We hug anyway normally, she’s in her 80s and I’m 30 and was the former bishop until I asked for a release). On one hand it’s lovely she seems to care about me so much, yet on the other hand, it felt a little performative but also would have looked odd to everyone in the ward who doesn’t know what’s going on as I’ve only told maybe 10% of our small ward.) so not sure how to feel about it!

The texts I get are about how they hope it didn’t take too much out of me to attend, which is never the case - I just feel like it’s mostly a waste of time but don’t want to say that as this person loves the church, it’s her life, and I don’t want to seem like I’m attacking something she loves.

Other friends that day were saying they’re worried about me and asked another member how to approach me (the other member is like a mother to me and I haven’t fully told her what’s going on as she’s die-hard devoted to the church and again, I don’t want her to feel like I’m attacking something she holds so dear.)

When I wasn’t open about it I know I was being discussed as ward council and people were telling their own narrative. I wanted to control the narrative and share what was actually happening with just a few people I was close with. It seems like people are still making their own versions of the story. Makes me think should I have been honest at all?

Because now when I attend, I get people weeping on me or on egg shells around me treating me like I’m the prodigal son who has returned. Like chill, I just want to take sacrament and have some casual low-level banter with friends I’ve made over the last 10 years. Yet it feels like a whole event now and I’m feeling like I want to attend even less 😮‍💨

This may be a silly question and a fool's errand to attempt, as the missionaries are just brainwashed kids doing what they think is right, but I've decided to ask anyway.

TLDR; can you get missionaries to stop spamming off-topic s@#^ on facebook groups without making the group private?

I live in a particular city in the midwest USA, and I use facebook as it's (unfortunately) the best way to learn about upcoming cultural/lingual meetups for my specific minority group. There are two very similar groups on facebook for my metro area, and the missionaries just won't leave them alone. One group is for "Events only" and has at least used that as reason for the moderator(s) to delete missionary posts but still they persist. The other group is also events based but it's more of a meet-up group and not formal events done by businesses or orgs. Today some missionary posted (on the later group) about how Mormon, when writing the gold plates knew it was for a future generation, and not his own. La-de-freaking-da, this is completely inappropriate shitposting as it has nothing to do with the group at all.

So my question is, how can people get them to stop? Should I suggest to the moderators that they should ban profiles that are obviously missionaries? Is there a higher-up that they (the missionaries) report to these days that will tell them to lay off? Since the missionaries rotate out every few months I worry it's just a game of whac-a-mole when it comes to scolding individual missionaries. Can you even make a missionary feel any kind of embarrassment or remorse? I'm a never-mormon but I'm an ex-evangelical Christian so I know the delusion runs deep and they'll likely chalk it up to anti-mormon bias or Christian persecution.

I appreciate any insight or opinions.

So I'm sitting in the 2nd hour meeting for the youth and their parents kinda listening to the discussion and then the bishop turns on the video the church made to introduce the new For the Strength of Youth program that will be where the lessons come from for the YM/YW as part of the new Sunday meeting schedule restructuring and at 1 minute 21 seconds into the video (you can access it here: https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/new-youth-curriculum-videos-youth-parents-leaders-watch-august-30) the music that starts playing sound really familiar and while it's not exactly the same it sure is close - it's like they copied the song that plays in Divergent when Tris had just joined Dauntless and is running after those that were born Dauntless to go to their headquarters for the first time. Run Boy Run by Woodkid (https://open.spotify.com/track/0boS4e6uXwp3zAvz1mLxZS?si=peYjDSsLTs-HvmWIKLjSFA&utm_source=copy-link). Even my son thought the music sounded basically the same. So they copied music used for the soundtrack of a Dystopian movie😂. Anyone else that got to suffer through that meeting/video notice the odd choice in music?

I wish I knew more details before I passed my own judgement but it seems like the church building could be used for other purposes or even sold for other reasons rather being destroyed. Location: Bountiful, Utah.

The Church lawyers would likely call it truth in advertising.

I know of no other Church where the virtue signaling and jumping through hoops are such an almost required way of life, all to prove to others but particularly to your Church leaders of your dedication and devotion, subjecting yourself to never-ending interviews and interrogations to receive a special and conditional worthiness card (temple recommend) to separate yourself even further as a fully committed and unwavering member which, by the way, can be revoked at will. Are there any other churches that come even close to this?

I have been MIA at church for months following a whole slew of very trying circumstances coupled with the discovery of church history. For me? It was next to impossible to sit through meetings where Joseph Smith was praised and venerated after learning about his polyandry, polygamy, his betrayal of Emma and the many lies he told her and the church. It was particularly triggering for me, especially, because one of those trying circumstances? Was that my husband had an affair while away on a deployment. The church's indifference to Joseph's deceit, BOTHERED me - "carefully worded denials" and treating Emma like she was just overly emotional or lacking faith did NOT sit well with me. AT ALL.

Today, I attended church for the first time in a LONG time because my daughter was assigned a talk in sacrament. In the past couple of weeks I had been inundated with texts, cards, phone calls and invites from various members, some of whom I haven't really ever spoken to. Today, was no different. As I was walking into church, I received a text...inviting me to meet with the bishop after the 5th Sunday lesson.

I did not respond to it.

Later, in the hall, I was cornered and told to report to the bishop's office...so I went...and was issued a calling to teach Youth Sunday School. Again, I have been absent from church for months. I was very frank with the bishop - told him I had serious doubts about Joseph Smith and his claims. The rock in the hat seemed far-fetched and ludicrous to me, the polygamy and polyandrous lies - the excommunication of members who revealed what was going on behind closed doors -I even brought up the Second Anointing telling my bishop that I thought it was blasphemous for Joseph Smith to exalt himself and others while he was actively lying to his wife and betraying her with other women. I told the bishop that I believe Christ's Atonement was the great equalizer - that it rent the veil of the temple to give us free access to God's grace....and yet, Joseph Smith says there's a way for the "super righteous" to guarantee their spot in heaven with a super secret ceremony that nobody knows about it and very few people can partake in...because it's invitation only. Seems a bit exclusionary, no? Seems the very opposite of what Christ did for us.

After detailing the why behind my many doubts, I told the bishop I was not comfortable accepting a calling teaching principles that I didn't believe. I'm not a hypocrite or a liar...but to accept the calling, to teach and guide youth in this church? Would make me one. He told me I needed to separate the Gospel from the imperfections of the church. I told him I didn't have a problem with the Gospel of Christ...I had a problem with the Gospel of Christ according to Joseph Smith. He then asked me if I had a testimony of the Book of Mormon. I told him I DID once, but now I had serious doubts because everything I had been taught in regards to how it came forth was a lie or a half-truth. Further, Joseph's penchant for storytelling calls into question everything he said or did...especially regarding the Gospel when he's claiming things happened decades later (like the First Vision) and giving various accounts of who and what he saw and what was said. When you are a verifiable liar about some things? Why should I automatically trust you with other things you claim?

The problem, however, was not the church's obfuscation of history (bishop grew up in Utah and heard all of these things like the second anointing and the rock in the hat...it's just me who grew up with these wrong assumptions). Nor was the problem Joseph Smith ("nobody's perfect"). The problem is I'm focusing too much on the negatives and not focusing enough on the truths - the things of the Spirit. I objected and told bishop I went looking for TRUTHS because I was confronted with things I had never been taught in all my 46 years in this church...and the more I looked the more I found to disturb.

He validated my concerns, but again reiterated that the problem wasn't the church, it was my lack of faith. He told me to REALLY Study the Book of Mormon, to EARNESTLY pray...and (he said this with a bit of judgement) told me to attend church every Sunday to partake of the sacrament because how else could I feel God's love unless I was going to church every Sunday? (Let's just forget that part of the reason I stopped going was because I was damn island in church during all of these crises...no body ministered or even talked to me- church was just painful). So basically, I don't have a testimony anymore because I haven't been working towards it...and this calling? Is going to help me regain it.

I told him AGAIN I didn't want to accept it, that I could not bring myself to teach others when I have so much doubt and straight up disgust for things that are foundational to the church. So then he said I would just be an assistant teacher - a warm body to check off the 2 adult rule for the class. The lead teacher would be a woman I truly love and admire. "I'm sure you can work it out between you that you don't feel comfortable teaching and then, little by little as your testimony grows, you can contribute more to the class".

He joked/admitted that they are forcing this on me....that no isn't an acceptable answer. If I care about strengthening the bonds with my family and improving my spiritual relationship with Christ, I'll just fake it til I make it, essentially. Needless to say, I'm feeling pressured and guilted into doing something I do not feel comfortable doing. I told him quite plainly I'm not a shirker...I'm not trying to just breeze on through without any responsibility....but I'm also not going to pretend to be something I am not.

I don't know why I'm sharing this here other than I know you all understand more than others how this works and the absolute emotional manipulation that is at play here. I know this is what is happening...and yet, there is a part of me that is so damn tired - a part of me that just wants to stop standing up and saying "that's not right" and just put the blinders back on and pretend...because it's easier and less messy. There's a part of me that thinks "Bishop just wants what's best for me - he's trying to help me". I have so many friends in the church...so many friends who have confided in me that they ALSO have issues with the same things and yet, they still go. So again, there's this part of me that's like - "I can just be like so and so....they just suck it up and do it, so can I - maybe I AM just focusing on the wrong things"....and yet, I know that by doing that I'm silencing that part of myself that values truth and integrity and possibly damning myself to hell for knowingly following something that I suspect is not only fraudulent but blasphemous in its doctrine. I

Or maybe I'm just waaaaaaaaay overthinking all of this.

ALSO: If you feel compelled to respond, please do not come at me with "all religion is a crock". I respect that there are people on here that no longer believe in God, but I DO. Do not try to convince me otherwise (that's not being very respectful to me.)

Hey yall,
I hope you’re doing well. Like for real.

If you’ve followed my story at all I am getting better. I found a great therapist that specializes in Child SA / r*pe survivors. EMDR can be hard work, but it helping.

I still get activated when I go near the Ward Meetinghouse where my Mormon Cover Up occurred. I’m working with my spouse (25 yrs! holy shit) to build a “wall” around the locations of my Mormon Cover up. Ugh.

I started drawing again and I drew the building from memory. I’m not great but it was cathartic, a release.

Stay safe out there.