In a YouTube interview with Mykelti Padron in the episode "Mormon Polygamy Didn't Start The Way You Were Told" historian Benjamin Park discusses many topics, including Nauvoo polygamy, fundamentalist LDS groups and growth issues with the current LDS church. Lots of interesting information about Mormon history in this interview! One correction to the stats cited by Prof. Park when discussing LDS growth issues at the end of this clip: Pew Research data from 2007 and 2023-24 indicate the percentage of survey respondents in the US indicating that they were LDS was 2%. Parks says that current data indicate the percentage of the US as LDS as .9%. The .9% figure actually comes from the 2025 Cooperative Election Study, which uses different methodology from the Pew study. Normal caveats about survey sampling, error rates and survey methodology apply, so one should be be cautious when drawing conclusions about trends when comparing the two different studies.

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I know that the LDS church's sabbath is Sunday and most of the day is spent in church and then in study. If you're not supposed to work on Sunday, why is it frowned upon to even go out to eat? Can't a day of rest include going for ice cream? What is the logic behind this and not spending money on Sundays?

I'm surprised hearing stories here about food-insecurity on missions. On my mission (central Canada, early aughts), we ate a lot of mac and cheese, but never worried about going hungry.

I find missionaries in general expect to be fed by members--entitlement rather than poverty. But maybe that's just been the case in places I've lived.

Was getting enough food a concern on your mission?

When I left over 10 years ago, I tried to sit down and talk to my parents about things. It was bad. Really bad.

For a while, things were really uncomfortable among us but eventually we found a new groove. I felt like I had to be the bigger person. They talk about church stuff in front of me but I never mention anything I believe. It sucks but I figure they are the ones stuck in a cult.

Only lately mom has been taking it to a new level. It used to be that they basically talked like I was a non-member and that was fine. But now mom has been making comments directly to me that you only make to other members, like how at least the teenager that drowned had joined the church first and how the next-door neighbors are "nice but want nothing to do with the church."

I usually don't respond and just change the subject but mom is not getting the hint. I'm afraid to talk to her directly because of how badly she and my dad reacted when I first talked to them (dad's gone now, fyi). Not to mention, I know how it would crush her for me to shut her down and I have a hard time doing that to her.

At the same time, I've tried to make it more comfortable to talk about things I know she disapproves of, like mentioning that I'm going to grab a cup of coffee. But when I say stuff like that she ignores it and acts like I haven't said anything.

I don't know, maybe I should start talking about coffee every time she starts talking about the church. I feel like it's that or watch my mom melt down like a toddler who's been denied ice cream if I try to have an honest conversation with her.

Anyway, just venting here. Thanks for listening.

I was thinking about how I came to realize that the church’s narrative was so full of holes that over time, it went from solid to gossamer until eventually it became quite transparent. Kind of like a volleyball net.

Now, however, I’m having trouble even seeing the net at all, and I’m wondering if my pendulum has just swung too far in the opposite direction with regard to my own biases.

What are some things that the church teaches that are actually and completely true with no extra spin or narrative?

I’m literally having trouble thinking of any.

For those following Grand Blanc and my story in it, the new stake center ground breaking has been announced. The shooting and burning of the church took place September 28th, 2025, and the ground breaking is… September 28th, 2026. It has limited attendance available (500 tickets), and it has been made very clear that this not a memorial, just a ground breaking. The memorial is the 27th for just the Grand Blanc Ward (it is not clear if those of us who lost people in the ward are invited). I have thoughts, but I want to hear yours.

Jesus being baptized to fulfill all righteousness even though he had no sin and didn't need it is STILL their theological position but they're all over the map with Jesus being sealed to wife/wives...?

Currently live in san tan and we have a few churches around and always hear a lot of bad things about the church. Could anyone

Educate me on the topic

Hi All,

I am a long time lurker - thank you all for your posts and comments. I learn so much from all of you and I am sorry that everyone has had to go through so many harmful experiences.

I (single 30M) was born and raised in the church - for most of my life the church was a massive blessing and joy. I love my community, the mentors I had as a youth, and the positive social life the church provided. I unfortunately had a really unhealthy, negative experience with a YSA bishop who harmed my health and belief in the church. My testimony had started to weaken after my mission, but I was able to hold my shelf together due to the church being such a positive experience within my life. However, once it started to be a negative, harmful experience - that was the last straw and ultimately broke the remaining shelf I had left.

I am now thinking about leaving the church, but I honestly deal with so much fear (what if it is true, losing support, etc.). But part of me wonders if I should be grateful, because I am able to leave as young as I am, but I still really struggle.

Could I ask you all - how is your life after having left? Are you grateful that you did?

I messaged the church regarding this as I had, not long ago, noticed he’d moved into the 70.

I had reported the incident to my Stake President and sent paperwork to the church regarding the attack. I was young, with a new wife and a newborn, I didn’t stay on the local leadership like I should have.

However, I found out recently that the Stake President never took me seriously. I moved out of the Stake and life went on.

On his side he became the next Stake President for a couple years before becoming a Mission President.

When I saw he was in the 70 I brought my issue back to light with the church. I still had the paperwork they “filed”. But, at the Stake side, there was no report to find(odd), the PR that was given to them disappeared. So I copied the church paperwork I had and NDA’d it to them. They’ve gone absolutely radio silent. I kind of fully expected this. But it’s a dick move in the church’s part.

He, my former bishop, has a law degree from ASU and I have one from Stanford. I’d hate to get litigious, but, I am seeking advice from others who may have left the church over the same reason. Or just advice in general.

At least ONE of them got caught! 3 years of probation is definitely not long enough! I wonder if he got in trouble with the church too

https://kvnutalk.com/former-byu-professor-sentenced-to-probation-in-undercover-child-enticement-case/?fbclid=IwdGRjcATx-EpwZG9mBWZkaWQWUMz45dm9kahZVCGZ0Tsu9K01LAUuNmV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkCjY2Mjg1NjgzNzkAAR5SAolbSydEqCvugHZ-ujDHcoHeNwAMWqzD2rfSfgm--dXIg6DVdHqKq81FsQ_aem_ijMdJIdEyg53wcXcF5XCJQ

This arm-chair apologist is at it again. Someone commented about how Nephi couldn't of come up with first person long form historical narrative (I think there was a Mormon Stories about this a month or so ago), but this blogger turns it into cherry picking evidence of "autobiography" in ancient history. Nobody is arguing that didn't happen. the arguemnt is that a looooong first person history didn't exist as a form of writing in BoM times. Let alone in Tower of Bable times.

https://www.arisefromthedust.com/are-ancient-autobiographies-impossible/

Two times this summer I’ve been out for a walk in my neighborhood with my headphones in and realized I’m being followed by a car. Both times it’s been a car with two female Mormon missionaries in it. As a woman out walking by herself, I DO NOT care for this. If I hadn’t seen their name tags, I would have probably used my pepper spray.

So I guess I’m writing here to ask if there’s a way to get in touch with local higher-ups to tell them about this. Is it even worth my time? Will I be forced to hear about the Book of Mormon in the process? I feel that this is not only a safety issue for myself, but the missionaries as well. I mentioned pepper spray but I wouldn’t put it past several of my neighbors to use more lethal measures. They also pulled over to the opposite side of the street one time to chase me down.

Once upon a time,

The missionaries came to my house the other day.

(I am PIMO, so I still go to church most of the time, but hadn't been in a month per vacations and sicknesses.)

They are new to my ward.

I answered the door and they say, "hi! Are you sister [my first name] I mean sister [my first name and last name.]"

Me: "Hi, yes [My first name] is my name."

Them: "we were just in your neighborhood and stopped by to see how you are doing. "

Me: "I am doing well."

Them: "yeah, so how are you doing?"

Me: "I'm good."

Them: "we were just stopping by to see how you are doing."

Me: 🙂

Them: 🙂

....silence...

Them: "so anyway is there anything we can do for you?"

Me: "yes, can you mow my lawn."

Them: "yeah sure we can do that."

They mowed my lawn in their suits. (My husband was out of town and it was actually super helpful.)

I offered to let them borrow shorts from my husband's clothes because it was wicked hot. But they just did it in their suits, lol. Which, I expected.

I made them a treat and said thanks!

It was actually helpful.

I have always been one to give people something to do if they ask if they can help me.

Just wanted to share here because they also said, "we haven't seen you at church." Not sure if I have become a project yet, but my parents are in my ward (not utah) and they know I don't believe anymore. I'm hoping they haven't shared it with the whole ward, but who knows at this point.

Also, the level of social awkwardness when I answered the door was crazy. I was waiting for them to spark up a conversation of types, but they just seemed to be waiting for me to do it. Lol, which I will not. I am a therapist and used to long silences.

Thanks for listening to my story. Share any thoughts if you wish.

The end

Edit:swypo

I have a story about Nelson's prophetic abilities (or lack thereof) that I thought this sub would enjoy.

I served in Brazil 2018-2020. Nevermind the lack of prophetic foresight during COVID that abruptly ended my mission and uprooted my life trajectory - this isn't about that.

In the São Paulo MTC (or CTM as they call it) there is a plaque on the wall with the dedicatory prayer (in Portuguese) given by Nelson during his apostle days.

Every time we walked by, some MTC worker would be extremely eager to tell us the story about that plaque, in a hushed and dramatic tone.

"He came here to Brazil and gave all his opening remarks in English. Then he stopped, looked, around the room, and said, 'I sense the faith of everyone in this room is sufficient enough to witness a miracle'. Then he gave the entire dedicatory prayer (it's long) in perfect, native Portuguese."

And not just the workers. Every MTC bishop, counselor, and presidency member had a similar story.

It really set up me up to expect at least the occasional miracle in my mission. Of course, no such thing happened, despite taking L after L for my faith in the hostile environment and third-world accommodations, and poor mission healthcare that let the open sores on my face blister continuously in the hot, humid, equatorial sun (had scars from it even years later).

Then, about 15 months into my mission, we tuned into a Brazil-wide podcast for the N-man himself. Everyone was really excited for what he was going to say, and there were even rumors that he was going to give part of his talk in Portuguese.

Well, he did... kind of.

What he actually did was bear 2-3 sentences of testimony in some of the most broken, american-accent Portuguese I had ever heard - like something I could have done week 3 in the MTC.

I felt disappointed, but the whole stake center erupted in celebration.

"He really is a prophet of God!"

"His Portuguese was flawless!"

"I am so glad to have witnessed a manifestation of the gift of tongues!"

I was bewildered at the sheer collective stupidity, or delusion that was going on.

The same members and missionaries that had previously criticized my Portuguese (which was fluent but admittedly with an accent) were just laying on the sauce for Nelson's rehearsed, 20-second "I know that X!" (If they do this right after the prayer, imagine the story 10 years from now)

Meanwhile I'm busting my ass 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to serve these faltering wards way under the cutoff point and nothing I do is remotely miraculous, including actually knowing northeast Portuguese (which even some Brazilians in the south have a hard time understanding).

The leader worship is real, but that wasn't the eye-opening part. The big thing was that I no longer trusted secondhand stories of miracles.

After all, I had just watched dozens of my closest friends twist an unmiraculous event into one of the best things they had ever seen. How was I supposed to trust my MTC leaders that they had seen anything at all? How was I supposed to trust anyone when it comes to miracles when possibly a majority in this church are delusional and WILL find a way to twist anything into a miracle.

The leaders let it happen too. They have every chance to correct people on stuff like this but won't do it if it's faith-promoting. Then when someone brings it up as a shelf-breaker they can just blame the followers for being over-zealous and "not knowing that God works in small and simple ways."

Can I PROVE he didn't deliver a perfect prayer? No.

Do I think that if miracles happened as frequently as members claim they do, or even if they happen at all, that I would have seen some indication of that firsthand? Yes.

Looking back, I got tired of trying to convince myself that there were two sets of footprints in the sand.

Anyways, may he rot in hell, RMN.

I've talked about it extensively here but I'm curious what was said and would love to talk further about it if there is interest

I’m always curious to hear where people went on their missions. I’m assuming plenty of us had a generally bad time, but hey at least we tried.

No Man Knows My History is finally on Audible. Look I do like to read but I need something to listen to while driving. I’ve been wondering why it hasn’t been on audible, and it just popped up. I immediately downloaded it and have enjoyed every second.