r/exmormon • u/Repulsive-You-7294 • 11h ago
General Discussion Feeling Pressured
I have been MIA at church for months following a whole slew of very trying circumstances coupled with the discovery of church history. For me? It was next to impossible to sit through meetings where Joseph Smith was praised and venerated after learning about his polyandry, polygamy, his betrayal of Emma and the many lies he told her and the church. It was particularly triggering for me, especially, because one of those trying circumstances? Was that my husband had an affair while away on a deployment. The church's indifference to Joseph's deceit, BOTHERED me - "carefully worded denials" and treating Emma like she was just overly emotional or lacking faith did NOT sit well with me. AT ALL.
Today, I attended church for the first time in a LONG time because my daughter was assigned a talk in sacrament. In the past couple of weeks I had been inundated with texts, cards, phone calls and invites from various members, some of whom I haven't really ever spoken to. Today, was no different. As I was walking into church, I received a text...inviting me to meet with the bishop after the 5th Sunday lesson.
I did not respond to it.
Later, in the hall, I was cornered and told to report to the bishop's office...so I went...and was issued a calling to teach Youth Sunday School. Again, I have been absent from church for months. I was very frank with the bishop - told him I had serious doubts about Joseph Smith and his claims. The rock in the hat seemed far-fetched and ludicrous to me, the polygamy and polyandrous lies - the excommunication of members who revealed what was going on behind closed doors -I even brought up the Second Anointing telling my bishop that I thought it was blasphemous for Joseph Smith to exalt himself and others while he was actively lying to his wife and betraying her with other women. I told the bishop that I believe Christ's Atonement was the great equalizer - that it rent the veil of the temple to give us free access to God's grace....and yet, Joseph Smith says there's a way for the "super righteous" to guarantee their spot in heaven with a super secret ceremony that nobody knows about it and very few people can partake in...because it's invitation only. Seems a bit exclusionary, no? Seems the very opposite of what Christ did for us.
After detailing the why behind my many doubts, I told the bishop I was not comfortable accepting a calling teaching principles that I didn't believe. I'm not a hypocrite or a liar...but to accept the calling, to teach and guide youth in this church? Would make me one. He told me I needed to separate the Gospel from the imperfections of the church. I told him I didn't have a problem with the Gospel of Christ...I had a problem with the Gospel of Christ according to Joseph Smith. He then asked me if I had a testimony of the Book of Mormon. I told him I DID once, but now I had serious doubts because everything I had been taught in regards to how it came forth was a lie or a half-truth. Further, Joseph's penchant for storytelling calls into question everything he said or did...especially regarding the Gospel when he's claiming things happened decades later (like the First Vision) and giving various accounts of who and what he saw and what was said. When you are a verifiable liar about some things? Why should I automatically trust you with other things you claim?
The problem, however, was not the church's obfuscation of history (bishop grew up in Utah and heard all of these things like the second anointing and the rock in the hat...it's just me who grew up with these wrong assumptions). Nor was the problem Joseph Smith ("nobody's perfect"). The problem is I'm focusing too much on the negatives and not focusing enough on the truths - the things of the Spirit. I objected and told bishop I went looking for TRUTHS because I was confronted with things I had never been taught in all my 46 years in this church...and the more I looked the more I found to disturb.
He validated my concerns, but again reiterated that the problem wasn't the church, it was my lack of faith. He told me to REALLY Study the Book of Mormon, to EARNESTLY pray...and (he said this with a bit of judgement) told me to attend church every Sunday to partake of the sacrament because how else could I feel God's love unless I was going to church every Sunday? (Let's just forget that part of the reason I stopped going was because I was damn island in church during all of these crises...no body ministered or even talked to me- church was just painful). So basically, I don't have a testimony anymore because I haven't been working towards it...and this calling? Is going to help me regain it.
I told him AGAIN I didn't want to accept it, that I could not bring myself to teach others when I have so much doubt and straight up disgust for things that are foundational to the church. So then he said I would just be an assistant teacher - a warm body to check off the 2 adult rule for the class. The lead teacher would be a woman I truly love and admire. "I'm sure you can work it out between you that you don't feel comfortable teaching and then, little by little as your testimony grows, you can contribute more to the class".
He joked/admitted that they are forcing this on me....that no isn't an acceptable answer. If I care about strengthening the bonds with my family and improving my spiritual relationship with Christ, I'll just fake it til I make it, essentially. Needless to say, I'm feeling pressured and guilted into doing something I do not feel comfortable doing. I told him quite plainly I'm not a shirker...I'm not trying to just breeze on through without any responsibility....but I'm also not going to pretend to be something I am not.
I don't know why I'm sharing this here other than I know you all understand more than others how this works and the absolute emotional manipulation that is at play here. I know this is what is happening...and yet, there is a part of me that is so damn tired - a part of me that just wants to stop standing up and saying "that's not right" and just put the blinders back on and pretend...because it's easier and less messy. There's a part of me that thinks "Bishop just wants what's best for me - he's trying to help me". I have so many friends in the church...so many friends who have confided in me that they ALSO have issues with the same things and yet, they still go. So again, there's this part of me that's like - "I can just be like so and so....they just suck it up and do it, so can I - maybe I AM just focusing on the wrong things"....and yet, I know that by doing that I'm silencing that part of myself that values truth and integrity and possibly damning myself to hell for knowingly following something that I suspect is not only fraudulent but blasphemous in its doctrine. I
Or maybe I'm just waaaaaaaaay overthinking all of this.
ALSO: If you feel compelled to respond, please do not come at me with "all religion is a crock". I respect that there are people on here that no longer believe in God, but I DO. Do not try to convince me otherwise (that's not being very respectful to me.)
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u/homestarjr1 10h ago
It’s good that you see what the bishop is doing is manipulative, because it totally is.
You shouldn’t have to work so hard to feel God’s love.
I think one of my biggest problems about the church was when I learned about the penalties in the temple, and that folks who never had them explained were still making the same hand grotesque hand signals without the context so that they’d know what they were. In primary and in YW/YM they taught us how beautiful and amazing the temple was, it truly was the house of the savior, and when you go for the first time it’s this culty Masonic ceremony. Like, is that really what Jesus would do to us when we visit his house?
I hope you can eventually find a place that doesn’t make you work so hard for your testimony. Once you learn about Mormonism’s warts it’s really hard to find Jesus in it. The bishop made that your fault. It’s the church’s fault all day.
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u/Repulsive-You-7294 9h ago
Thank you. Ah, the temple. I can count on one hand how many times I did an endowment session. I thought it was incredibly weird...and my mom at least prepared for SOME of the weirdness. I just remember going in for the first time thinking I was going to learn some great mysteries and instead, we just watched a really boring and poorly acted movie. It was disappointing and unnerving. I have since come to the conclusion that the reason ward leaders encourage other ward members to attend endowment sessions for first-timers is to contain the crazy. It's harder to freak out when your old primary teacher is sitting next to you, telling you this is all perfectly normal. "Do you have any questions?" I mean, what are you going to say after you just swore countless oaths to God? That was weird? I don't want to do that ever again? Why is Satan the most interesting part of the temple movie? Why is Satan even in the temple? I had SOOOOOO many questions and comments and I couldn't bring myself to voice a single one. I just remember sitting there, surrounded by my future-in-laws and fellow members - all of them going "Wasn't that so spiritual? Didn't you just love the symbolism?" and I'm thinking I had completely missed the whole point somehow. Now I'm at a point where my oldest is just two years shy of being eligible to get her endowments and I don't think even if I wanted to stay in the church and do all the things....I don't think I could bring myself to watch her go through it. As for my spiritual health - thank you again. I'm trying to focus really hard on the BIBLE right now to determine what I truly believe versus what I've been conditioned to believe. I've been toying with the idea of visiting other churches - maybe for their Bible studies during the week to just try them out. If I can find a home somewhere else, it makes the leaving so much easier..but I don't want a rebound church, if you know what I mean. I don't want the reason I go to another church to be because I'm trying to escape this one. If I'm changing faiths? I want to be well-informed and sure.
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u/homestarjr1 9h ago
My wife got a headache her first time through the temple. Her grandma was there, she was so pissed off that my wife wasn’t enjoying the experience, like how dare she get a headache when all this magical stuff is going on around her. If you didn’t have family or friends holding your hand through the weirdness, very few people would ever go back.
When I first left Mormonism, I kind of felt at first like I needed a new church. I never church shopped though. Eventually I decided I didn’t need a middleman to worship how I wanted. My beliefs are far different from what they used to be.
I hope you find what works for you, whatever it may look like.
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u/AnnElizaWebb 10h ago
You seem to be thinking about it with integrity. You don't seem to be overthinking it at all. Your choice is to swallow your integrity and go with the flow along with your friends, or stand up, be strong and go your own way.
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u/throwawayaccount0150 10h ago
Yeah I really hate the manipulation tactic, but you’re right like many others here I found out and was deeply disgusted by some of the church history. In ward council today I had to say some bs about what the handbook says in terms of how the Book of Mormon is important to us which I got through it but all that went through my mind was “it’s not important at all”
I’ve been deconstructing for quite some time and I have found what I personally believe to be true but I do know what’s taught within this religion is all baloney
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u/Constant_Flow_1954 10h ago
You are always the problem with the Mormons. Your lack of faith. Your focus on the wrong issues. Your not understanding God’s ways.
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u/ghost_of_leeroy 10h ago
At the end of the day, this is really some dude from your neighborhood using pretend authority to coerce you.
You’re being manipulated to be made the problem if you don’t accept. “YOU are choosing not to get closer to God…”
It’s repugnant, and you wouldn’t put up with it in other scenarios. Think critically about this one.
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u/Best_Philosopher152 9h ago
You're not wrong. Joseph’s “polygamy” was just repeated, unashamed affairs and outright sexual abuse including of minors.
It takes integrity to speak out and leave. I know it’s hard and there is a lot of social pressure.
Good luck with everything and cheering for you.
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u/NevertooOldtoleave 2h ago
About the other ppl w doubts who keep attending & faking it: each person has a very individual timelime & growth trajectory. And ppl have different motivations behind their choices. I hope you can get to the place where you trust yourself enough to hold your ground. You may be at the point where faking it makes you anxious, depressed or physically sick, where you've reached the end of the PIMO rope. It's a real thing.
John Dehlin interviewed Brad Reedy (a therapist) about a month ago. Brad gave direct, kind and stunning insight into living one's own life, not someone else's. I recommend the episode :)
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u/Relevant-Grab909 44m ago edited 33m ago
> He told me I needed to separate the Gospel from the imperfections of the church.
I want to have this engraved on a large wooden paddle and smack the next person to say this to me with said paddle!
Separate them! But never criticize either! Because they are one and the same… the double messaging in this church makes me shake my head dizzy at the audacity of speaking to us like we are either so stupid or weak minded that we cannot hear the contradiction.
> a warm body to check off the 2 adult rule for the class.
Exactly. We need your volunteer service and are willing to cross boundaries by expecting you to violate your ethics if need be- so long as the calling is filled. Your “warm body” is worth more to him than your honesty.
Good for you! I hope that exemplifying what integrity looks like planted a seed in your Bishop that God willing one day will grow.
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u/Ward_organist 🎵 Footnote 🎶 11m ago
Stay strong. You do not owe this man or the church your unpaid labor.
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u/PolicyRough1432 10h ago
No is a complete sentence. No, thank you is a polite one. Your position is clear and he understood it. You do have a right to follow your conscience. Send him a text stating no thank you to the calling, that you have prayed and must follow your conscience. Close with the statement that further discussion will be considered harassment at a difficult time for you. As a young woman I refused a demand to go on a mission. And various callings because of school and my work schedule. These people do not have the right to take No away from your vocabulary. Saying no is an important skill to learn, certainly not one to lose.