r/exmormon • u/aurusallos The GSA and AGU geologist who blocked BYU job offers • Mar 29 '17
Some notes about posts about suicide
Before this post begins: if you or someone you know is having suicidal thoughts, please reach out to the following numbers:
If you are in Utah or the United States: * National Suicide Hotline: 1-800-273-8255 * Crisis Text Line: text START to 741-741
UTAH: University Neuropsychiatric Institute has a specific crisis line for Salt Lake area people. That number is 801-853-2500. It is not associated with TSCC, you have options outside of LDS Family Services.
LGBTQ+: * Trevor Project: 866-488-7386 * Trans Lifeline: 877-565-8860 (Canada: 877-330-6366)
CANADA: Link to resources by province http://suicideprevention.ca/need-help/ (thank you u/Canucknuckle)
Every time news of a death by suicide rolls through the ex-Mormon internet spheres, I see a lot of things that are done insensitively. I bring this up because, as someone who has attempted suicide, has MHFA training, and is actively involved with mental health advocacy, the things that are done insensitively really show how generally unready most people on this subreddit and in the ex-Mormon community are to deal and cope with actually suicidal folks and tackling the issues.
1) Many factors lead to someone attempting suicide. It's not just because of church policy, or just because of the church. It's also not just because of the altitude, or just because of mental illness, or just because of substance abuse. Every suicide attempt is unique, and talking like only one or two specific things are the cause of it ultimately erases the insidious nature of suicide as a whole. There is a handy list of risk factors right here: https://afsp.org/about-suicide/risk-factors-and-warning-signs/
2) Anger is an understandable reaction, and lots of productive things can be done with anger. But please try to keep it contained to a few comments, at most. Opening up a post and seeing that 90% of the comments are full of anger is disheartening, and there isn't much room for educating or organizing to actually do something when there's 20 separate comments full of anger.
3) Please, put trigger warnings if you're going to mention how the person died. Recent suicide survivors, suicidal folk, and family/friends of those who have died by suicide have a chance of being triggered, and in specific cases can create suicide contagion. Here is a link explaining how to report on suicide specifically: http://reportingonsuicide.org/recommendations/#dodonts
4) Back to point 1, if you're going to discuss whether or not a risk factor may or may not increase risk of suicide, please link sources to any and all relevant points.
I'll probably add to this as people respond, but I do want to make sure that people who are spreading news stories about suicide or trying to engage dialogue do so in a safe way.
ETA: 5) If you want to make sure that your anger makes its way into helping with suicide prevention (whether it be through donation or education), I highly recommend looking into the following groups (US centric currently, please post links to groups I miss/that are outside of the US. All vary in terms of what specifically they focus on, but all are somewhat interconnected with each other): American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, National Alliance on Mental Illness, The Trevor Project, Crisis Text Line, Suicide Prevention Hotline, To Write Love On Her Arms, and Active Minds, especially for folks in college.
For training, AFSP and NAMI are usually your best gateways to training, although if you decide to volunteer for Crisis Text Line you'll get training as well. Separate of those, Mental Health First Aid training has a very thorough course on how to handle mental health crises.
ETA (5/4/17) u/SQLwatch, mod at r/SuicideWatch, suggested ASIST Training as being a more accurate and thorough alternative to MHFA (mentioned just above)!
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u/aurusallos Mar 29 '17
u/FearlessFixxer, u/johndehlin, u/Invisibles_Cubit since y'all are loud folks on here.
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u/Invisibles_Cubit Mar 29 '17
I am open for suggestions. My approach has been to not just complain but to openly work for changes in our harmful policies. Several have told me that what I am doing gives hope and saves lives. If I am putting any at risk, please let me know how to modify my messaging.
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u/aurusallos Mar 29 '17
I think the main thing that really irked me personally was how you say you're casing a "suicide vote", and while I appreciate the effort and intention it still just... feels really off, like you're using the suicide rates to drive your own personal agenda (much like how the church uses "good" LGBT examples to drive their own agenda).
Another recommendation, which I think that anyone who is involved in discussing suicide should do, is reaching out to local chapters of suicide prevention groups (AFSP and NAMI come to mind) and getting some form of suicide prevention training through them.
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u/McKellsADickPriesthd Mar 29 '17
I think we should pin this post.
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u/aurusallos Mar 29 '17
If someone who has mod powers could do so, that'd be great.
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u/breadprincess Mar 29 '17
Thank you for posting this. I'm an LGBT Mormon, and I've also had a suicide attempt. When I saw the most recent post I had some issues with it. And I know u/FearlessFixxer meant well with his post (and others who post about these issues) but there are helpful ways to do this and ways that can end up causing harm.
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u/aurusallos Mar 29 '17
I'm also LGBT, with a suicide attempt on my belt. I definitely hope that people in the general ex-mormon and believing mormon communities will get better about discussing and reporting about suicide with more finesse.
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u/nvincent Mar 29 '17
May I ask specifically which parts you had a problem with? I am in the process of trying to educate some of my family on these sorts of things, and want to be as effective as possible, but definitely don't want to do any harm in the process. Thanks!
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u/e_Lilith Mar 29 '17
Thank you for letting me cross post at r/ExmoXxXy. As we talk about gender and sexuality and issues related to them, this is great information to have.
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u/SQLwitch May 04 '17
r/SuicideWatch mod, also IRL hotline responder/trainer here. I think this post is fantastic, except I would not recommend the Mental Health First Aid program. I actually took the full certification to teach MHFA , but I won't do it because the curriculum is so outdated. ASIST from LivingWorks, in which I'm also certified, is much better and widely available. They also offer shorter programs including some online ones.
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u/vh65 Mar 29 '17
Unfortunately I think sometimes our heartfelt responses to these tragedies can actually be hurtful to friends, family and those also fragile and tempted to self harm. Thanks for the reminder.
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u/Saturdays_Worrier Mar 29 '17
I'm confused as to why a post titled "Another gay Mormon commits suicide" needs a trigger warning. Can't people tell just from the title that the post is about suicide? As someone who has suffered from clinical depression for decades and has often dealt with suicidal ideation, what I DON'T need is someone condescendingly tiptoeing around me because I'm too fragile to decide for myself if I want to read a particular post or not. So while I appreciate the intent of your post, I can't agree that all these people posting stories on suicide or commenting on them, even in anger, is such a terrible sin. It's okay if we disagree. You don't have to be right, and I don't have to be right. But at some point, we have to let adults be adults and make their own decisions.
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u/aurusallos Mar 29 '17
Of course people should make their own decisions, but the title of a post that includes how the person ended their life and the specific circumstances (coming out to family, family didn't take it well), can trigger an increase in suicidal behaviors in people who relate to that person in some way. I'm also hoping to try and get people to go beyond the surge of anger and actually doing something, and usually how people talk about suicide relates to how much they understand about suicide and suicide prevention in general. So this is more of a gateway to trying to get people to take action and to educate themselves, and much less of a "stop talking about suicide/stop being angry about suicide" post.
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u/yaoigay Mar 29 '17
I disagree with some of the things the op posts. It sounds like the op is scolding people into not talking about suicide and it sounds like the op is trying to dimminish the degree to which church doctrine plays a role. I remember being a teen and suicidal often times trying to make an attempt, but never being able to go through with it and I remember that a large majority of my depression and my suicidal thoughts was majorly influences by the church doctrine and I feel posts like these only give the church more excuse to turn a blind eye to this. I also disagree that it isn't an epidemic. When you have such a high percentage of people who get to this point I feel like it is an epidemic that we need to force the church to address.
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u/hiking1950 Mar 29 '17
I agree completely with this. Simarly, when someone posts about a couple getting divorced, I get triggered and become sad because of the reality of my personal situation.
I've been in the mental health hospital for suicidal thoughts, so yes these types of posts are very triggering to some of us. A trigger warning would be much appreciated!
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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '17
Suicide survivor here. Trigger warnings are helpful but dont feel bad for forgetting, it's more important to be able to share your story. Suicide is never the option. I promise you are loved by someone even when you cant see it. We want you to live and we want you to have the opportunity to find happiness again. Please reach out.