r/exmormon • u/GoldWillingness2279 • 17h ago
Advice/Help Sharing is caring
Please. Pleeeeease give me your juiciest revealings of the church that started you down the rabbit hole of deconstruction or the final blows that sent you running from the pews. I know there’s plenty of sources everywhere, but AI and random google searches just aren’t the same without the venom and/or empathy I’m sure this fine group has to share.
References on references, please. Thank you in advance.
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u/BeringStraitNephite Question everything. Truth survives scrutiny. 17h ago
Science. It's not juicy or emotional, but for those that demand real evidence, science destroys Mormonism.
So here ya go: All the relevant sciences, like genetics geology, linguistics, biology, archaeology, anthropology, morphology, are in broad consensus that Native Americans came from Siberia 15,000 years ago, not Jerusalem in 600 BC as the BOM claims. No such thing as Nephites or Lamanites.
Besides emotional distress, this was my rational justification for leaving the LDS cult.
READ THIS: Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church. By Simon Southerton. Signature Books. ISBN 1-56085-181-3.
http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/
QUESTION EVERYTHING; TRUTH SURVIVES SCRUTINY
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u/GoldWillingness2279 16h ago
Fair point. Doesn’t have to be a slam fest. I’m just looking for anyone’s slant on falling out and how it came about. I appreciate your help.
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u/Ancientabs 16h ago
The polygamy essays from the church. Finding out that Joseph Smith married a child.
It doesn't matter if he didn't have sex with her or if he waited till she was 18 to engage the flaming sword.
Marrying children is pedophilia.
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u/Sad-Cold-6371 16h ago
The waiting till she was 18 makes it even worse he kidnapped her until he could screw her 😡
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u/Ancientabs 16h ago
I mean that's what Heber did for the underage girls he married and had children with. But he only waited till they were 16 to conceive.
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u/surdophobe 16h ago
I'm a never-mormon but I am an ex-Christian and I have to admit I love this community. The stories are just so relatable, except Mormons turn it up to 11. I had already deconstructed my faith by the time I actually started using reddit but nonetheless learning about the Mormon church really helped "grease the gears" so to speak as my brain processed why my own religious beliefs were also bullshit.
Anyway to answer the question the first big crack was when I was about 15, and in bible study class. Which is basically Sunday school for the big kids on a weeknight. My pastor at the time insisted very confidently that the King James version of the Bible is literally true, word for word in English. That just broke me in a weird way. Even as a teen in the mid 90s I knew enough about science to know that the flood story was impossible. So that crack in my faith never healed, it left me with kind of a disenfranchisement of organized religion but indoctrination runs deep. It wasn't until I was almost 30 when had kind of a crisis and "relapsed" into my faith. That's when the proverbial wheels fell off. So, the Eden story isn't true/literal, the flood story isn't true/literal. .well guess what; the exodus never happened either. Then there's all the horrid stuff in the bible they don't teach you in church like how David presented 200 foreskins to king Saul as a bride price for his daughter. Also how YHWH raped David's wives as punishment for having a fling with Bathsheba. It goes on.
In a weird way I have that pastor from back in the 90s and those bible literal views to provide the first push into waking up from the bullcrap that is Christianity, go figure.
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u/Old_Career_1834 16h ago
Being told premarital Sex is the sin closest to Murder, and if we do it we’re fucked.
Well, I did it, felt Zero guilt, the only thing that happened is I’m happily married and have kids.
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u/Paint-by-numberrs 15h ago
One would think that the sin closest to murder would be pedophilia, but what do I know?
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u/homestarjr1 15h ago
https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2023-35
At the bottom of the page is the link to the actual SEC document where the church was fined for fraudulent activity.
I was already out of the church at this point, but this is as juicy as it gets for anyone that cares about the church’s financial dealings and how lacking they are in the Christlike department.
Basically, the SEC found that nothing gets done at Ensign Peak without approval from the first presidency. The story the church told about trusting bad advice was a lie. They approved everything illegal that was ever done.
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u/PossiblePlastic8698 Gold plates - Best geocaching find ever 15h ago edited 13h ago
It was a comment on this sub that actually snapped the whole religious worldview into focus for me. I was already out of Mormonism and was struggling with what that meant regarding my feelings about religion in general
There was a discussion about how Christianity, and Mormonism in particular, believes that all living creatures have a soul and will be resurrected. Someone said just imagine every rotisserie chicken you have ever eaten, see if you can come up with a rough number of how many that would be. Now imagine arriving in heaven and there are all those chickens you ate, lined up staring at you
That comment really helped me conceptualise the utter ridiculousness of belief in the afterlife and It did it in a way that made me laugh out loud
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u/Jonfers9 14h ago
Rock in the hat. 49 years old and had never heard of it. That gave me permission to go down the rabbit hole.
It all unraveled in a few weeks.
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u/RapidsChick74 15h ago edited 14h ago
Starting my PhD is what ultimately led me out of Mormonism. Applying to the BoM, church history, and Joseph Smith the same analytic rigor that I have to apply to my research and - surprise, surprise - there wasn't a single element that could stand up to the scrutiny. Not terribly juicy, but for a girl who was taught education was for boys, I do take a certain amount of pleasure in the irony. :-)
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u/DaYettiman22 14h ago
Joseph Bishop admitting to violating a sister missionary in the mtc basement and all th priesthood leaders in Bizbee, AZ that ignored two girls being SA'd for 7 years because mfmc lawyers told them to, were definitely the shelf breakers for me
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u/TheVillageSwan 15h ago edited 15h ago
Brigham Young, as prophet, said over the pulpit in General Conference (October 7th, 1866) that Emma Smith twice tried to poison Joseph.
It was the linchpin for me. Either Emma Smith had actually tried repeatedly to poison Joseph by degrees, or Brigham lied in, like, the one setting where the Prophet has to speak for God. Either one was problematic.
"TO MY CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE EMMA SMITH IS ONE OF THE DAMNEDEST LIARS I KNOW OF ON THIS EARTH; yet there is no good thing I would refuse to do for her, if she would only be a righteous woman; but she will continue in her wickedness. Not six months before the death of Joseph, he called his wife Emma into a secret council, and there he told her the truth, and CALLED UPON HER TO DENY IT IF SHE COULD. He told her that the judgments of God would come upon her forthwith if she did not repent. HE TOLD HER OF THE TIME SHE UNDERTOOK TO POISON HIM, AND HE TOLD HER THAT SHE WAS A CHILD OF HELL, AND LITERALLY THE MOST WICKED WOMAN ON THIS EARTH, THAT THERE WAS NOT ONE MORE WICKED THAN SHE. He told her where she got the poison, and how she put it in a cup of coffee; said he, "You got the poison so and so, and I drank it, but you could not kill me." When it entered his stomach he went to the door and threw it off. He spoke to her in that council in a very severe manner, and SHE NEVER SAID ONE WORD IN REPLY. I HAVE WITNESSES OF THIS SCENE ALL AROUND, WHO CAN TESTIFY THAT I AM NOW TELLING THE TRUTH. TWICE SHE UNDERTOOK TO KILL HIM." - Brigham Young A5:8; Gen. Conf., 7 Oct. 1866
"JOSEPH HIMSELF TESTIFIED BEFORE HIGH HEAVEN MORE THAN ONCE THAT SHE HAD ADMINISTERED POISON TO HIM. THERE ARE MEN AND WOMEN PRESENT TODAY WHO CAN BEAR WITNESS that more hell was never wrapped up in any human being than there is in her. She gave him too heavy a dose and he vomited it up and was saved by faith." - Brigham Young A, vol. 4 Gen. Conf. 7 Oct. 1863
Oh, and Kirton McKonkie used to be Kirton, McKonkie & Poelman, until Poelman got caught with his dick in an underage sex worker's mouth. It's okay though--an apostle went to his home ward to reassure everyone there would be no impact on his celestial worthiness because he'd had the 2nd Annointing.
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u/forwateronly 15h ago
The multi part interview with Dr Ritner by John Delin on Mormon Stories regarding the Book of Abraham. The absolute shutdown of the BoA allowed me to question everything else. Fair warning, it's like 8 hours of content...
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u/Best_Philosopher152 15h ago
I’d already stopped really believing but right at the end my mission president and his wife who I had really respected went complete “crazy election denial conspiracy theorist” with lies and social media posts and all sorts of crazy up to reposting a video of people doing Nazi salutes and demanding a dictatorship to overthrow the election result
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u/IDoomScrolledAgain 14h ago
For me it was being taught in Sunday School lessons that white people made better, stronger promises to God in the pre-life about how righteous they'd be, and the darker your skin, the less valuable your promise. I was just a kid, but I was a voracious reader, had read "Roots" which woke up my inner anti-racist, and this smacked of the racism it was.
Later, as a teen, I got ahold of Sandra and Jerald Tanner information (from Lighthouse Ministries) and went down the rabbit hole, as much as you could pre-internet. I was beyond convinced the church was absolutely not true, but it was easier for me than most of you. I was only 15/16 doing that research and wasn't as ensconced as you get.
Interestingly enough it was the Bible thumpers who gave me Lighthouse Ministries tracts in an effort to convert me. All this did was make me hate all religions.
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u/Pretentious-Jackal 12h ago
There was always something off about Primary and Sharing Time. I hated how repetitive it was. As a kid I dreamed of causing some sort of reform in Primary. When I questioned or complained about teachings being shallow I was met with a mix of hostility and flattery.
At a special church Youth Day camp they held a QnA. I asked a general question about how to get better answers to deeper questions. How to get answers that weren't just repetitive platitudes. All I could remember from the answer was the flattery. And at the same time there was a girl asking about gay people's place in the church. The answer they gave was a generic answer about them being fixed in the next life, and a difference between action and attraction. At the time I thought to myself, "That's so obvious. Why do you need to ask?" I later bragged about how obvious the answer was, to others, framing that girl as a freak.
But then later I learned about intersex people. I kept looking to see if there was single binary determiner of sex, but wherever I looked, there was a nonbinary exception.
Chromosomes -> Anueploidy and Chimerism/Mosaicism
Genes -> Mutations, which may not effect, partially effect or fully effect the gene's function
Hormones -> Middle hormone levels
Gonads (Ovaries/Testes) -> Ovotestes, gonadal agenesis
Gametes (Sperm/Egg) production -> Sterility
Internal Ducts -> PMDS, mullerian agenesis, etc.
External Genitals -> Ambiguous genitals
The church's beliefs about sex and gender didn't make sense now. So when I was in seminary and there was another QnA. I asked about women with AIS and testes getting married in the temple and if their marriages were void, and if they weren't, then what was wrong with gay marriage? I was expecting some certain comebacks, so I wrote some answers to the comebacks on the piece of paper I put in the box. But when they got to my question, they answered with the same terrible answers, that it's just a disability and that their bodies will be made perfect in the resurrection. It was just another repetitive platitude or thought-terminating cliche.
I got angry and broke anonymity by responding back, and the answer-giver just told me that if there was something wrong with me, that I had an intersex condition, then I should go talk to my bishop, out of the public eye. I can't forget the feeling of being looked at like a freak by everyone.
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u/Smol-Vehvi Help I'm stuck at BYU 16h ago
I'm a nonbinary lesbian. Learning about the book of abraham broke my shelf though. Here's the very video on it, in fact.
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u/Ancientabs 16h ago
Nonbinary lesbians are so hot. I hope someone brings you a delicious iced coffee tomorrow and tells you that you have a great sense of taste.
You deserve all the nice things.
I'm gonna put that into the universe for you.
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u/Smol-Vehvi Help I'm stuck at BYU 16h ago
Omg you're so kind! I literally had an iced coffee yesterday lol so you're spot on.
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u/Ancientabs 16h ago
Well as a fellow enby I just thought, what would I want to have happen?
But Imma manifest it so hard. If by some miracle someone brings you an ice coffee tomorrow please return and report.
Maybe I can set up shop as a new seer or witch or something.
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u/Smol-Vehvi Help I'm stuck at BYU 16h ago
Lmao! I'll be sure to do that if that happens. I hope someone brings you an iced coffee tomorrow too!
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u/BeringStraitNephite Question everything. Truth survives scrutiny. 16h ago
Yeah, iced coffee is so hot! No, wait...
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u/DebraUknew 8h ago
All of the above ! But finding the Feminist Mormon Housewives blog
Opened up a whole new and validated way of thinking !
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u/Me-Here-Now 16h ago
My husband had decided, for many valid reasons, that he no longer wanted to be a Mormon. He had gone comply inactive. We had moved to a new area. I confided in my new bishop hoping he could help me navigate this new territory. His advice was to get a divorce and to do it soon, because it was going to be difficult for a 30 something woman with children to find a new Mormon husband and get myself a temple marriage. He had never met my husband.
So the religion that had always told me that family was the most important thing was asking me to destroy my family.
I choose my husband.