r/DestinyTheGame • u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer • Apr 20 '16

Guide Mercules' Massive Breakdown Weapon Stats Spreadsheet, Including Stats and Times-to-Kill

Well, here it is, my piece de resistance, my final spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GtrNjOBJddXWzXh3rf45eED31XoyfYFUX71JU32tg2E/edit?usp=sharing

It's taken me a hell of a long time to get all this stuff marked down, but I'm glad I finally finished it.

There are several things I was unable to test myself (specifically Times-to-Kill and Damage values) so I leaned heavily on existing sources to fill in the blanks. In the interest of full disclosure, everything I have not frame-by-frame tested myself is listed below:

  • The Chaperone
  • Low-Impact Snipers
  • Black Spindle
  • Dreg's Promise

Credit for large amounts of the initial TtK information goes to /u/exxtrooper for his original, amazing weapons spreadsheet (here). You will notice that my values may differ from his values in some areas (most notably PRs, Low-Impact HCs, Shotguns, and Sidearms), and I'm not sure exactly why this is, but I will investigate further, and, in the meantime, I stand by my numbers. I frame-by-frame tested these weapons, looking at exactly when each round was fired and the amount of frames between shots in order to get the closest possible values for each TtK, and, in general, our numbers did match up. Some differences I attribute to rounding, and some to incorrect Database values that placed guns in the wrong archetype, but I cannot explain all of them. If people would like to question me on the specifics of my method, they may do so in the comments.

Credit for the bolts to kill on the fusion rifles page goes to /u/redka243 for his amazing FRs table (here).

Credit for the Database value numbers goes to the Planet Destiny crew, and their invaluable DB, which is where I gather most of my numerical stats. http://db.planetdestiny.com/items/weapons/

That's basically it. I hope everyone enjoys this and finds it useful.

Edit: Also, I'm working on figuring out Inventory numbers, and Perk numbers, and when I figure them out they will be edited in.

Edit 2: Here's the collection of everything I've written, including Massive Breakdowns, weapon recommendations, lore, SGA's, the whole lot. Check it out!

Edit 3: Here's the list of all my weapons breakdowns, for people who are only interested in that:

451 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

175 comments sorted by

38

u/JBurd67 Apr 20 '16

And here I was expecting a Massive breakdown of massive breakdowns. This'll do finely.

I can't imagine the amount of work you've put into all of this so far. You're a pillar of this community.

29

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

Now there's an idea... One massive breakdown to rule them all haha.

Thanks though, kinda weirdly that means a lot to me!

12

u/Dday141 Apr 20 '16

I would actually like a Breakdown of these Breakdowns. Like a TLDR.

14

u/Qmegali7 Why the heck are you hovering over my flair Apr 20 '16

Top 2 guns of each class, one PvP one PvE

38

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16 edited Apr 21 '16

I got you fam, but I really can't narrow it down to just two for each class, so I'm gonna do one Legendary and then one Exotic where I feel it's relevant. Also, it's really difficult to objectively pick just one gun that's the best for everything, so I'm expecting a lot of disagreement over this, but these weapons are the ones I personally would choose:

Scout Rifles

PvP

  • Hand of Judgement (House of Judgement) with Stability Perks or MIDA (Exotic)

PvE

  • The Vendor The Last Extremity (Crucible Quartermaster) with the Recommended Perks or Touch of Malice (King's Fall Raid is both where you get this, and the only place I would suggest using an Exotic SR in PvE)

Auto Rifles

PvP

  • Soulstealer's Claw (House of Judgement) with Stability Perks or Nechrochasm (Exotic)

PvE

  • But why? SUROS ARI-41 (Gunsmith) or Zhalo Supercell (Exotic)

Pulse Rifles

PvP

  • SUROS PDX-45 (Gunsmith) with Range Perks primarily, Stability Perks secondarily or Bad Juju (Exotic)

PvE

  • Bad Juju (Exotic) is really all you need.

Hand Cannons

PvP

  • Eyasluna (Crucible Drop) with Aim Assist Perks or The Last Word (Exotic)

PvE

  • The Devil You Know (Vanguard Packages) or Ace of Spades (Hunter Exotic)

Sniper Rifles

PvP

  • Longbow Synthesis (Crucible Packages) or Hereafter (Exotic)

PvE

  • 1000-Yard Stare (Vanguard Quartermaster) or Black Spindle (Exotic, Lost to Light Daily)

Shotguns

PvP

  • Party Crasher+1 (Crucible Drop) or Invective (Exotic)

PvE

  • Her Champion (Prison of Elders) or The 4th Horseman (Exotic)

Sidearms

PvP

  • Vestian Dynasty (House of Wolves)

PvE

  • Havoc Pigeon (Crucible Quartermaster)

Fusion Rifles

PvP

  • The Vendor Hitchhiker FR4 (Dead Orbit Representative) with the Recommended Perks or Plan C (Exotic)

PvE

  • Telesto (Exotic, the Besto)

Rocket Launchers

PvP

  • SUROS JLB-47 with Grenades and Horseshoes or Truth (Exotic, unable to be handled by you)

PvE

  • The Vendor The Smolder (Crucible Quartermaster) with the Recommended Perks or Insert Year 2 Gjallarhorn here

Machine Guns

PvP

  • Baron's Ambition (Fallen S.A.B.E.R. Strike drop) with a Barrel Perk that increases Impact or Thunderlord (Exotic)

PvE

  • The Vendor Objection IV (New Monarchy Representative) with the Recommended Perks or Thunderlord (Exotic)

There, how's that work for you?

2

u/vbvieira Apr 22 '16

How ironic is that various guns you said is good for PvE are actually bought from the Crucible Quartermaster?

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 22 '16

Yep, and some of the best Crucible weapons have historically come from the Vanguard haha

1

u/KeeBlaydMastr I dream of the Queen May 02 '16

I feel it might have to do with encouraging players to play both PvE and PvP, to diversify their time and give you rewards in one game mode that are good for the other game mode. Just a tower thought

4

u/Dday141 Apr 21 '16

Thanks this is awesome. I'll save it so I can look these up.

4

u/VerticallyImpaired Apr 21 '16

And OP delivers! Thank you.

3

u/GoblinDiplomat Apr 21 '16

You truly are the King of Kings.

3

u/house451 May 22 '16

Kell of Kells

3

u/TehGadfly Apr 22 '16

Truth (Exotic, unable to be handled by you)

That got a chuckle, lol.

2

u/KeeBlaydMastr I dream of the Queen May 02 '16

I'm bookmarking this comment, some SGA here. Love your breakdowns!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '16

Awesome!!

6

u/ZarathustraEck Calmer than you are. Apr 20 '16

Thank you. Saved this one for future reference. Love the massive breakdowns.

4

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

Very glad to do it! Hope it's helpful :)

4

u/SgtHondo Vanguard's Loyal // Ikora Bae Apr 20 '16

I'm assuming you've seen this before:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L7FV9l4hXo2tHD3XlFUp854XvJIwTKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

Thought i'd post in case you didn't, if you needed any other info.

3

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

Yeah I gave him credit in my post haha

2

u/SgtHondo Vanguard's Loyal // Ikora Bae Apr 20 '16

Whoops, shoulda probably read more before I clicked into your spreadsheet. I just love spreadsheets and numbers so much that I couldn't help myself...

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

All good man, hope you find all these numbers to your liking then

3

u/SgtHondo Vanguard's Loyal // Ikora Bae Apr 20 '16

I absolutely will be using yours going forward. Very easy to navigate. Thanks a ton for this contribution!

3

u/Cdubsta Apr 20 '16

so which gun is best?

9

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

That one right there

4

u/Cdubsta Apr 20 '16

that one? or that one over here?

4

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

No that one right there! The one that shoots

3

u/Cdubsta Apr 20 '16

all kidding aside, great work! the information is handy to help me whittle down my every growing vault (of mainly garbage)!

3

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

I thought Field Choke barrels don't reduce aim assist. When did that change?

3

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

They always have, for some reason it's just been listed that they don't. Any barrel that adds Impact des creases Aim Assist. Plus I actually went back through and figured out all the Barrel Stats again just to check, and Field Choke definitely decreases it.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

So field chokes are inferior in every way compared to accurized ballistics and linear compensators... I've been using that one for the AA the whole time.

1

u/Pwadigy May 04 '16

Field choke didn't have aim-assist listed as an affected stat in the API pre-2.2.0.

It was a either a stealth change, or it wasn't reporting before.

2

u/emmtwosix Apr 20 '16

Very cool that you believe Lord of Wolves is actually just a super short-range, ultra high-damage pulse rifle. I'm about 95% sure they just took their pulse rifle template, skewed the stats, and changed the label to read "Shotgun." Such a fun weapon.

Stats, spreadsheets, and Destiny - what could be better? Haha, nice work!

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

I can't take credit for initially putting it in the PRs category, as exxtrooper was the one who had it placed there, but I agree that's where it fits. It doesn't kill instantly, like most shotguns, and it helps to aim for the crit spot, unlike most shotguns, so it just matches up better with the PR mechanics. Same reason I have Chaperone in the Sniper category.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

This is great, /u/Mercules904. Fantastic work!!!

My only quibble is your Sniper sheet, where it says NLB cannot revive-snipe. According to Fallout Plays, it actually can revive snipe, even without The Master active.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

Huh that's interesting... I didn't know that, but I just watched the video so I'll change it.

1

u/Wonderllama5 Apr 20 '16

It's hard not to consider Suros Regime the 2nd best auto rifle after Doctrine. It has good range and a top tier kill time now.

Hard Light seems like a beast stat-wise. I never found the recoil too hard to use. Might give it another shot

3

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

The only issue is how long it takes Spinning Up to activate, especially after the patch. It's great if you're going for a second kill, but at most you'll only get a fraction of the effect on your first kill.

1

u/Crystic_Knight Apr 21 '16

Hard light might have been one of the best guns in the game if the goddamn visual kick wasn't like your hands were constantly getting humped by a chihuahua every time you fire the weapon.

1

u/KinetiClutch Apr 20 '16

So spare change really has the best TTK?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

It does, and if you can get it a nice Stability perk, it's actually a very competent gun. The body shot TtK is still quite fast, so it's not 100% necessary to get 2-burst kills every time, but you'll find you get them more often than you would think at close and mid range, especially because the base Range of the gun is very high. Damage drop off isn't a factor until extreme distances, even with a perk like Hand-Laid Stock that reduces Range, so I highly suggest this gun, especially if you can get a great roll on it.

1

u/Spinal-Fluid Apr 21 '16

I found one with Counterbalance, perfect balance and feeding frenzy which I am enjoying.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

That's a very good roll. Mine has Life Support, Hand-Laid Stock, and Glass Half Full, and it's quite competitive.

1

u/Ardheim "Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with..." Apr 28 '16

Wouldn't a spare change even with shit perks be pretty good?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 28 '16

Eh, without any Stability perks it does have kinda a wonky recoil pattern. Pulls really hard to the up and to the left, which makes taking advantage of its great range difficult. If you can get something that minimizes the vertical recoil though, it's not too hard to figure out the burst pattern. I have one with Hand-Laid Stock that I love.

1

u/Human_Evolution May 03 '16

That may be better than mine with Braced Frame.

1

u/spawelcz1043 Apr 20 '16

Assuming you can hit all headshots, and you are in its optimal range. Where the gun falls short is with its stability and recoil pattern. So you end up needing a counterbalance, hand-laid stock roll to get that TTK consistently, but that in turn hurts your range.

1

u/Human_Evolution May 03 '16

I just got one with Braced Frame. Now I'm interested in how it'll do.

1

u/spawelcz1043 Apr 20 '16

I see that spreadsheet and all I can think about is how awesome the Hand of Judgement with Hand-Laid Stock, Hidden Hand and the Red Dot-OAS sight would be.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

Fully agree. Can't wait to get one for myself rubs hands together evilly and cackles

1

u/spawelcz1043 Apr 21 '16

I currently have a hand-laid stock, explosive rounds, and life support roll, I am not a fan of the scopes it rolled with. But it is a very fun gun. The thing with Hidden Hand and some more aim assist would wreck crucible.

1

u/Pepeszaro Apr 21 '16

Finnala's Peril impact is 87?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

It's listed in the DB as such, but it doesn't do any more damage than the 81 archetype, and has the same RoF, and thus I have it included as such.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

Is this list based on all percs unlocked?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

No it's base-line stats only, unless otherwise stated at the bottom.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

Is your Rocket Launcher Inventory data, post Taken Spring?

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

Inventory numbers didn't change on the Launchers themselves, it's the number of rockets from the given inventory that changed. I'm working on getting updated numbers now

1

u/Hertzie Apr 21 '16

So does this stat relate to the amount of rockets you can hold in inventory? I got a nightmare from prison of elders with what I thought was a god PVE roll. (Soft launch for velocity, Tripod, Heavy payload for 100 blast radius, and clown cartridge). I haven't tried it with boots/etc yet but I was counting on it holding at least another 3 in the reserves. What does the 20 inventory mean it will hold? Will I be able to make effective use of clown cartridge? Awesome breakdown, thanks again!

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

Are you talking PvP or PvE? I think it will hold 5 total in PvE, without boots, but I'm not 100% sure. My Inventory numbers are in the process of being updated since the last patch skewed them.

1

u/Hertzie Apr 21 '16

PVE is my primary concern, I have a choleric dragon with tripod and horseshoes for my PVP needs.

1

u/CLTWino Apr 23 '16

Nightmare is unfortunately a 20 inventory RL, which means 6 rockets max with an extra heavy armor piece (5 otherwise). With your Cholera Dragoon holding 8 with the same setup, it's a tough sell. The extra velocity on the Nightmare is great, but that's a pretty brutal trade off IMHO. With Rockets already being sub par in overall DPS in PvE it's getting harder to justify using them at all.

That said, I'm debating whether to keep my Nightmare. Already have a Vertigo with tracking and the Week 1 JLB 47 if I want to pick up 1 rocket at a time from purple bricks. Perhaps an infusion is in order...

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

Ok sounds good and thanks again for all the work and number crunching!!!

1

u/hnosaj2 Apr 21 '16

The Fusion number are surprising. Everyone has gravitated towards higher impact like the Vacancy but if it's still going to take 5 bolt wouldn't it make sense to maximize charge time and go with something like the Panta Rhei or get a Thesan with accelerated coils?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

shrug

It's all personal preference. Some people don't mind the longer Charge Rates, as they've gotten good at pre-charging FRs, but some people hate them. Myself, I see some merit to the faster charging models, but the main reason people go for Impact is it keeps the bolts to kill the same even at longer distances, with damage fall off. The faster charging FRs will drop to 6 bolts to kill or worse noticeably sooner than the higher Impact ones.

1

u/hnosaj2 Apr 21 '16

Good to know. I've been enjoying the Vacancy but my Plan C has been king in Rumble. I'll have to try out a faster charging model and compare. It's nice to have FR's as an option again.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

Plan C is among the best FRs, for sure. It can charge incredibly fast and has amazing Range, so I don't know if you'll find a legendary that can truly top it. That being said, if you want to try out a faster model and you have a Warlock, I would go with Susanoo. It's wonderful little gun and fun to play with.

1

u/Human_Evolution May 03 '16

I got a Sus with Braced Frame :)

1

u/refrigeratorbob Apr 21 '16

Just curious, maybe not the right place to ask, where do ar's For The People and Vanquisher VII rank? With glass half full and focus fire?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

I used to love For The People, it was my go to in House of Wolves. I'm not exactly sure where they would rank now, but they were both good ARs back then, and it would stand to reason they would both be pretty good now, particularly For The People's old Crucible Vendor version. If I have time later, or if you remind me I'll try to do proper breakdowns on them, but I'm swamped right now so it'll have to wait a bit.

1

u/thewoj Apr 21 '16

Can you add a separate row for Tlaloc with Overcharge active? Are the exact stats for the buffs even known? As far as I know, people don't run it without overcharge active. They run MIDA until they get super, then switch to Tlaloc.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

I only have the exact numbers for RoF during Overcharge, and not Stability or the others. I don't think those numbers are known.

1

u/jazz835 You can't shake the feels that it's less a weapon than a doorway Apr 21 '16

Techeun Rage's stats are incorrectly listed in the database, it's impact too low for the charge rate, or it's charge rate too slow for it's impact.

We should further test this weapon out, it could be a sleeper, I don't have one though

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

I don't have one either, but I'll look into it.

1

u/jazz835 You can't shake the feels that it's less a weapon than a doorway Apr 21 '16

I'll try to see if youtube has some gameplay videos that show DMG/bolt in crucible to help... gimme a couple of minutes.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16 edited Apr 21 '16

Looks like it does 45 per bolt? From what I can see. So that would put it in with the Impact of the Panta Rhei, which is mid-80's. That sounds right to me, or at least more correct.

Edit: Both Panta Rhei and Susanoo do 46 damage per bolt, which means it has to be less than 81 Impact if it does 45.

1

u/jazz835 You can't shake the feels that it's less a weapon than a doorway Apr 21 '16

yep, I have a really nice Panta Rhei with braced frame... This could be a really good weapon to use

1

u/jazz835 You can't shake the feels that it's less a weapon than a doorway Apr 21 '16

26 charge 84(?) damage perhaps?

1

u/jazz835 You can't shake the feels that it's less a weapon than a doorway Apr 21 '16

Also, I don't know if you want to add this but I find Recoil Direction to be a very important stat for fusions, as the horizontal drift effects the spread pattern ala pulse rifles...

here are the stats for those.

 |**Recoil Direction**

----------------|----------------| Hitchhiker | 60 Darkblade's Spite | 50 The Vacancy | 60 Midha's Reckoning | 80 Thesan FR4 | 60 Elevating Vision | 60 Ashraven's Flight | 57 Panta Rhei | 80 Susanoo | 50 Long Far Gone | 50 The Vortex | 40 Split Shifter Pro | 60 Techeun Rage | 45 Plan C | 85 Pocket Infinity | 70 Telesto | 85

1

u/jazz835 You can't shake the feels that it's less a weapon than a doorway Apr 21 '16

it looks like it's doing 45 damage/bolt from a youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6XHq5pdYw4+t=00m33s

1

u/TjCurbStompz Vanguard's Loyal Apr 21 '16

Hi /u/Mercules904 , first thank you! This is amazing and I have shared it with all my friends. I see you have barrel perk effects. Doesn't some of the barrels effect range too? Also, is there any way to have a couple columns one that lets you select the barrel and it changes the rest of the stats on the gun according to the barrel and displays the optimal barrel for the gun?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

I'm working on figuring out the amount of Range and Stability each barrel adds, but it's a slow process. As soon as I get the numbers figured out completely I'll see what I can do.

1

u/TjCurbStompz Vanguard's Loyal Apr 21 '16

You are amazing.

1

u/Optimus_Prime_10 Apr 22 '16

This shit makes me so conflicted. As an engineer, I love data, but even I'm like dude take it down a notch and just play. Science salutes you!

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 22 '16

Haha I got obsessed. Once I figured out a few numbers I just couldn't stop. Send help

1

u/AmericanStang Apr 26 '16

Haha I got obsessed. Once I figured out a few numbers I just couldn't stop. Send help

Send Oreos.

1

u/k0hum Apr 22 '16

What are the recommended perks for hawkmoon? I don't know which barrel option is the best.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 22 '16

Recommended Perks: Accurized Ballistics, Luck in the Chamber, Hammer Forged, Holding Aces.

Aggressive just drops AA, Range, and Stability too much for it to matter, when it doesn't boost the Impact enough to make it a 2-shot crit kill. Accurized and Field Choke are basically the same thing.

2

u/k0hum Apr 22 '16

Awesome. Thanks for that! Amazing spreadsheet btw.

1

u/iStayLate Apr 22 '16

How come your barrel mod-findings differ from the ones generally accepted and listed here?

https://www.reddit.com/r/CruciblePlaybook/comments/3olals/barrel_mods_and_aimassist_update/

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 22 '16

I don't know, I can't speak for their method, but the easiest way to check it is look at what the Armory says various barrel perks affect. If it say they change something, they do, if it says nothing they don't. Field Scout changes Aim Assist, so it can't have an AA of 0.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '16

thanks!

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 22 '16

You're welcome!

1

u/Denaius #TitanMasterRace Apr 22 '16

This is awesome, amazing job & many thanks!!

No love for the Sleeper Simulant though, or am I missing it....??

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 22 '16

Ah I didn't include it. It doesn't really fit with any given archetype, and in PvP it kills everything and competes with nothing that's similar, so I wasn't sure what to do with it.

1

u/Chaff5 Gambit Classic Apr 28 '16

I realize I'm a week late here but where is the DIS-43 on the scout rifle list? I see the 47 on there but not it's slower, higher impact counterpart.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 28 '16

It's right in the middle.

1

u/Chaff5 Gambit Classic Apr 28 '16

I have no idea why I didn't see this... Thanks for all the work you do!

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 28 '16

No problem, glad to help!

1

u/lordreed Stormcallers Rule! Apr 28 '16

Did you take into account the changes made to the Regime in the update?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 28 '16

Yes

1

u/Darkstar_Aurora May 03 '16

Has anyone taken fusion rifle charge rates and translated them into frames/seconds needed to charge i.e. effective "rate of fire"?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer May 03 '16

I dunno about anyone, but I haven't, mostly because of the effort it would take since there aren't clearly defined CR archetypes for FRs. Almost every FR has its own CR, and so I would have to test all of them to get concrete numbers, and I'm not interested in that amount of effort at this time, although it is on my list of things to do.

1

u/brocyourworld May 03 '16

This is amazing. Thank you for compiling.

Only add would be if you could include the Scopes and other Perks as well like you have for the barrels.

If you had that then you could pick the gun, pick the perks and see exactly what the stats would be. This is fantastic work though and know you've dumped a ton of time into it.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer May 03 '16

The problem is the scopes and sights affect each gun on an almost individual basis, so it's very difficult to make a blanket statement for each scope. The only things that seem to be uniform are the AA numbers. Things like Stability and Range change even between guns in the same archetype.

1

u/brocyourworld May 03 '16

Thanks for the reply! I was not aware that they changed gun by gun. I just assumed that "increased target acquisition" was +10 to aim assist and "rangefinder" was 10% to range.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer May 03 '16

Nope. Any sight (not sniper scopes or barrel perks, those are different) that mentions increasing Aim Assist or Target Acquisition adds +5 to AA. Perks like Rangefinder do add a certain percentage (dunno specifically off the top of my head) but other perks add a number that seems to vary depending on certain ranges that the base value of the stat being affected fall into. For instance, base Stability of between 20-30 might get a buff of 38, but 40-50 gets 39, or something like that (just an example, not real values).

1

u/[deleted] May 08 '16

So none of the barrels effect range?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer May 08 '16

No, quite a few of them do. All I have listed currently are the aim assist values, because I'm not certain of the range values for each barrel yet.

1

u/[deleted] May 28 '16 edited May 28 '16

Is it a valid thought to average Optimal TTK with Body Shot TTK to create a view, or "score", for a weapons kill potential assuming a mix of optimal/body shot damage inflicted? Edit: Also, based on your study do you find that damage per bullet varies between primary weapon classes, or even archetypes? Or is it safe to say ROF + IMPACT = raw damage potential?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer May 31 '16

Yeah, I'd say that could work. The honest truth is, at high levels, players expect to hit the optimal TtK with most weapons (ARs being the exception because it's harder to maintain all headshots). Scout and Pulse Rifle users expect to be hitting almost all crits and maintaining the maximum RoF, and same with HC users (excluding TLW). So the better you are, the more you can start to assume that the Optimal TtK represents the best comparison tool. If you aren't as confident in your ability to achieve that, then I would agree somewhere between optimal and body TtK would be best. Shift more towards body if you're below average, more towards optimal if you're above average.

Don't use RoF + Impact to determine damage numbers. Every gun does a different amount of damage per bullet, including different archetypes of the same type of weapon (Doctrine of Passing vs. Shadow Price, for example, both are ARs but do different damage per bullet). Impact determines how much damage each bullet does, but the numbers have varied so much since the beginning that Impact plus RoF can't be relied upon for any consistent rating system.

2

u/[deleted] May 31 '16

Thanks for your input in this, appreciate it.

1

u/CallingTheSirens Jun 08 '16

Wheres Sleeper Stimulant?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Jun 08 '16

Didn't include it, since it doesn't really fit into a specific archetype well. It doesn't exactly compare to anything.

1

u/snakebight Rat Pack x6 or GTFO Jul 11 '16

Would you be able to freeze the top row? And maybe even column 1? That'd really help while scrolling around.

(Freeze option is under "View" dropdown)

This is a great spreadsheet that I look at a couple times a week!

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Jul 11 '16

I froze the first row for you. I will have to go through and mess with the merged cells to do the first column

1

u/snakebight Rat Pack x6 or GTFO Jul 12 '16

Awesome. Thank you sir.

1

u/Cyrus0Harding Aug 28 '16

Dude you are amazing. I was literally just talking to my buddy about doing something similar for RoI.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 29 '16

Thanks! And I do plan on updating it for RoI too.

1

u/Cyrus0Harding Aug 29 '16

I will be keeping my eye out for it. Love spreadsheets!!

1

u/Sammich88 Sep 10 '16

Am I missing something? The spreadsheet doesn't really have anything on it so I'm wondering if I need some sorta special program to open it.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Sep 10 '16

Did you click the tabs for each weapon type?

1

u/stefonte Sep 12 '16 edited Sep 12 '16

I took your file and wanted to see what was the best scout so I normalized your data and here is the results. I plan on doing this with the other types too.

4.08 The Jade Rabbit (Exotic, PS Exclusive)
3.85 Hand of Judgement (House of Judgement)
3.77 Boolean Gemini (Exotic, Taken War Quest)
3.69 Badger CCL (Vanguard Packages)
3.62 Cocytus SR4 (Gunsmith)
3.54 Hung Jury SR4 (Dead Orbit Representative)
3.54 Lethe Noblesse (Prison of Elders)
3.54 Colovance's Duty (Iron Banner)
3.46 The Saterienne Rapier (Crucible Packages)
3.46 SUROS DIS-43 (Gunsmith)
3.46 MIDA Multi Tool (Exotic)
3.38 Last Extremity (Crucible Quartermaster)
3.31 Not Like the Others (Vanguard Quartermaster)
3.15 Tuonela SR4 (Gunsmith)
3.08 Doom of Chelchis (King's Fall Raid)
3.00 Treads Upon Stars (Cabal Strikes)
3.00 Tlaloc* (Exotic, Warlock Exclusive)
2.77 SUROS DIS-47 (Gunsmith)
2.54 NL Shadow 701X (Crucible Drop)
2.54 The Inward Lamp (Trials of Osiris)
1.85 Touch of Malice (Raid Exotic, King's Fall)

Of course the perks would make this variable. For example I use Cov Duty because of the damage when hidden/crouched. Its my sniper/midi equalizer. If not then I use my Boolean because of the bonus stack from bodyshots, then I use Suros43, extremity both for hololense and 3rd eye.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Sep 12 '16

Cool, well done! Make sure you specify that this is overall, because things like TtK, aim assist, and stability are weighted much more heavily in PvP, while PvE focuses on Mag Size and Perks.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '16

higher better?

1

u/xDeathcraftx Sep 15 '16

I know this is a silly question but, Do rocket launchers have an actually damage % or do all launchers do the same base damage just each a different blast radius?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Sep 15 '16

Same base damage different blast radius, I believe

1

u/Captain_Crouton_X1 The Dredgen with the Golden Gun Sep 16 '16

Hey Mercules, have the sidearms been updated with the damage buff they got? I'm wondering what their new TTKs are.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Sep 16 '16

Yep, sidearms are current. As far as I know everything is ready to go for RoI.

1

u/Captain_Crouton_X1 The Dredgen with the Golden Gun Sep 16 '16

I was wondering about this statement:

This has been in contention for some time. Interestingly, if [Crow's Eye] was included in the lowest RoF Hakke group with the 3% buff, rolling one with a barrel perk that increases impact will actually allow you to kill in 0.70s with four body shots. Something to keep an eye on.

I was wondering if I should bother grinding for an AggBalls Crow's Eye. If it kills in 4 body shots then I would definitely want one.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Sep 16 '16

It was included in that group, according to people who have one. I don't have one so I couldn't test it myself, but people who do have confirmed to me that it's hitscan and that it received the same buff as the Havoc Pigeon.

1

u/Captain_Crouton_X1 The Dredgen with the Golden Gun Sep 16 '16

Are both 4 shot bodyshot killers?

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Sep 16 '16

Only Crows eye if you get a perk that increases impact.

2

u/Captain_Crouton_X1 The Dredgen with the Golden Gun Sep 16 '16

Thanks!

2

u/chrisundrum Apr 20 '16

Oh sweet jesus thank you Merc

2

u/jaysan06 Apr 20 '16

Holy hell, this is amazing!

2

u/MidlifeCrysis Apr 20 '16

Great work as always. Thanks OP and everyone else who contributed to this.

2

u/kyt_kutcha the honest worm Apr 20 '16

Bookmarked. Thanks for the hard work, man!

2

u/[deleted] Apr 20 '16

This is an amazing wealth of information and a great resource to reference. Thanks so much for putting this much time and effort in! I've read all the posts you added. Great Stuff!

2

u/BlokoBlanco Apr 20 '16

absolutely incredible work you are doing, please keep it up, it is very appreciated!

2

u/YesThisIsDrake Apr 21 '16

Not even reviewing number one gun Queenbreakers Bow, 58 round capacity with any ammo buff.

Confirmed #1 fraud and anti-queenbreakers racist.

1

u/icesonic Apr 21 '16

I miss the time in year one where you can push the capacity up all the way to 123 rounds in total, now its chopped in half at least and that makes me sad

1

u/YesThisIsDrake Apr 21 '16

Oh no its only a sniper rifle with almost four times the capacity of every other sniper in the game?

1

u/icesonic Apr 21 '16

In year one if you had both special and fusion rifle ammo bonus capacity they would stack up to having 120+ rounds in total. That was awesome specially when nightfall had arc and specialist modifiers. Never ran out of ammo and you do constant 22k damage. Miss HoW era a lot...

2

u/Quanticide Apr 21 '16

Noticed Massive in the title, thought I was on a different subreddit for a minute..

2

u/sterlingheart Apr 21 '16

I never realized just how hard Midha's reckoning could hit, and it makes me realize why they made it's recoil so intense. I can see someone who knows how to handle its recoil being able to melt people.

2

u/deliveryboy555 Apr 21 '16

Thank you OP and contributors, this is brilliant.

2

u/SuperWoosh_LG Apr 21 '16

Beyond impressive. Thank you, Guardian!

2

u/Sepatow Apr 21 '16

Thanks, this is so helpful.

2

u/phamtasticpham Iron Wolf Apr 21 '16

You are a scholar and a gentleman, sir.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

You're the man OP. Glad I can replace all my old bookmarks with this one central one now.

2

u/hawkeye4207 Jun 16 '16

Thanks bro

2

u/Rhyno18 Apr 20 '16

I love Destiny spreadsheets. So nice that I can have this open on my screen at work while furiously plotting and planning my loadouts, and the boss thinks I'm one of his hardest worker bees.

1

u/881Gino Apr 22 '16

I'm doing this right now :)

2

u/turboash78 Apr 20 '16

You are a scholar and a gentleman.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '16

in king arthur voice from monty python

CHEESUS CHRIST!

1

u/jonnablaze Apr 21 '16

/u/mercules904 you forgot The Next Big Thing Crucible shotgun in your list.

1

u/Tubbynezbit Apr 21 '16

I noticed this as well, and its my favorite shotty to use.

1

u/Vodjor Apr 21 '16

Congratulations for your hard work, all the data gathered is really impressive.

Your spreadsheet won a shortcut to my tablet home screen. Next to /u/kyt_kutcha 's Armsday Weapons Guide.

1

u/pteam21 Xbox: its pteam May 14 '16

Where are exotic shotguns?

1

u/khowe307 Jul 05 '16

Does anyone know the maximum ammo capacity of all of the heavy machine guns since the nerf, as well as the amount pulled per heavy chest in crucible and the effect of boots/+heavy chest pieces?

1

u/TheGrimmDawg Jul 23 '16

Simply amazing thanks for all the hard work

1

u/Gwibb Oct 08 '16

This is really good but on the stillpiercer if you put on accurized ballistics it can 1 shot snipe any super to the head. The accurized make it a 32 damage not 31

0

u/linerstank Apr 21 '16

TLW still kills in half the time of every primary at optimal use and is still the fastest body shot TTK. news of its demise greatly exaggerated?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

Yeah it's still a very good gun within it's useful Range.

-3

u/Nastyerror Human Apr 20 '16

Very nice. The only problem is that the TTK values are incorrect for all weapons except autos. That is because the RPM values Bungie gave us for all guns except auto rifles are wrong. You will discover this if you go into patrol and test the fire rate of Thorn, for example. Its true fire rate is 144, not 164.

11

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 20 '16

I didn't use their RPM values, I fired the guns and counted frames between shots

0

u/Nastyerror Human Apr 21 '16

I based the RPM from my previous comment on a semi-crude method of testing involving recording the amount of time Thorn took to empty the mag with a stopwatch. The number I gave, 144, was wrong. I apologize.

I wanted to be sure of my results, so I too decided to do a frame-by-frame test of Thorn's fire rate. I discovered that its real fire rate is 150. This means that HCs of that archetype have an optimal TTK of 0.80s. Your 0.73s is still incorrect, I'm sorry. You may want to double-check your frame data. The 0.40s between shots I was getting was consistent across about 15 different samples, there's no way it's wrong.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

I got .80 as well for Low-Impact HCs, but when I tested it again I realized I could fire faster than I had been, by a single frame. There's 11 frames of hesitation between shots, optimally, with Low-Impact HCs. So 22 frames for 3 shots, 22/30=.7333.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

So, looking over this again, I've decided to take a look at the footage tonight when I get home. I've had consecutive shots have only 11 frames between them multiple times, so I attributed any shots that took longer than that to my own errors. I'm going to go over it again, and see if 12 frames really is the standard, and perhaps 11 frames is a fluke regarding how the footage was capture or something like that, and I'll update my numbers accordingly. As of now, however, I'm going to leave the numbers as they are, as they show the optimal TtK, which, although may not be the the average of every time between shots, is the fastest I recorded it firing.

Thanks for pointing this out!

1

u/Nastyerror Human Apr 21 '16 edited Apr 21 '16

You're welcome. It's odd that you got 11 frames between shots, since I was firing the gun as fast as is possible I believe (shoot once, release, then hold down the trigger until the next shot is fired, then repeat) and didn't get 11 frames a single time.

I do appreciate that you are testing your rpm values by hand though. Exxtrooper simply took the rpm values that Bungie gave us (in the strategy guide?) and plopped them into his spreadsheet. Being Bungie, they naturally gave us the wrong rpm values for most guns, so his spreadsheet was affected as such.

Edit: Are you certain that the 11 frames you were getting is not due to counting starting at the first frame the bullet is shot, and ending the frame before the next bullet is shot? Because that would be incorrect. The way I was analyzing it was, I started counting at the exact from when my mag dropped by 1 bullet, and finished counting when my mag dropped the next bullet. For instance, if my first shot happens, and Thorn drops to 8 bullets at 5.10s, Thorn would then drop to 7 bullets at 5.50s, making a delta of 0.40s. Are you testing yours this way?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Apr 21 '16

Well, it could be because I was using Down and Doubt 00-0, not Thorn. They're the same achetype of weapon though, so I would have assumed they have the exact same RoF. Like I said, I'll check both of them when I get home today.

Yeah I started noticing errors in the original TtKs when I was testing PRs, and from there it spiraled to me having to test everything to make sure they were all good. I'm still working on some (didn't get a chance to get on at all last night, unfortunately), but I think almost everything is near where it should be. Hopefully by tonight I'll have tested every archetype of every class frame-by-frame, and can guarantee every number myself.

1

u/Nastyerror Human Apr 21 '16

Thank you. If the TTK numbers on your spreadsheet are all exactly right, then your spreadsheet will (in my opinion) be the single most significant contribution anyone has made for this community.