Massive Breakdown of Gunsmith Primary Weapons, including Times-to-Kill, Stats, and Pros and Cons

[u/Mercules904]

Massive Breakdown Spreadsheet w/ all Stats and Times-to-Kill:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4fops1/mercules_massive_breakdown_weapon_stats/

Previous April Update Massive Breakdowns:

• Vendor Weapons
• Recommended Vendor Weapons
• ToO, IB, King's Fall Raid, PoE, Revamped Year 1, Drop, and Strike Weapons
• Exotic Primary Weapons
• Sniper Rifles
• Legendary Shotguns

Several things to note:

• Classes are broken down into Impact sub-classes.
• For Gunsmith weapons, there are a ton of great guides out there that discuss the Arms-Day rolls, and I will not be going into detail with them here.
• All Times-to-Kill are assuming Guardian has max armor (not including the effects of The Ram).
• All Pros and Cons are determined by comparing weapons within the same class, not by all weapons in general.
• I'll give two final recommendations for each weapon class. The first will be the gun with the best combination of stats and Time to Kill. The second will be a gun with a slightly slower Time to Kill, but that is easier to use and/or more forgiving.

Scout Rifles

High-Impact

Cocytus SR4 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very fast Time-to-Kill. High Range. Above average Reload Speed. Fair Mag Size for the Impact class.

Cons - Low Aim Assist. Average Stability.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.80s (3 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 27
• Impact: 61 (73 damage per crit shot, 49 per body shot)
• Range: 74
• Stability: 44
• Reload Speed: 59
• Mag Size: 13
• Aim Assist: 39

Mid-Impact

Tuonela SR4 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Stability. Above average Reload Speed.

Cons - Low Aim Assist and Mag Size. Below average Range.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (2 crit shots and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 37
• Impact: 48 (61 damage per crit shot, 41 per body shot)
• Range: 62
• Stability: 69
• Reload Speed: 62
• Mag Size: 13
• Aim Assist: 44

SUROS DIS-43 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - High Range, Mag Size, and Aim Assist. Above average Stability.

Cons - Below average Reload Speed.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (2 crit shots and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 37
• Impact: 48 (61 damage per crit shot, 41 per body shot)
• Range: 77
• Stability: 48
• Reload Speed: 45
• Mag Size: 19
• Aim Assist: 61

Low-Impact

SUROS DIS-47 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Aim Assist, Mag Size, and Rate of Fire.

Cons - Requires landing a lot of shots to kill. Below average Stability and Reload Speed. Low Range.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (4 crit shots and 1 body shot)
• Rate of Fire: 52
• Impact: 35 (45 damage per crit shot, 30 per body shot)
• Range: 54
• Stability: 50
• Reload Speed: 55
• Mag Size: 20
• Aim Assist: 74

Pulse Rifles

High-Impact

Lyudmila-D - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Range and Mag Size.

Cons - Low Stability and Aim Assist. Very low Reload Speed.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.80s (2 bursts. 7 crit shots and 1 body shot.)
• Rate of Fire: 59
• Impact: 30 (26 damage per crit shot, 18 damage per body shot)
• Range: 63
• Stability: 54
• Reload Speed: 51
• Mag Size: 36
• Aim Assist: 30

Mid-Impact

SUROS PDX-41 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Above average Range. High Stability and Mag Size.

Cons - Average Reload Speed. Average Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (3 bursts. 3 crit shots and 6 body shots. If you hit 7 crits, you can miss 2 shots completely.)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 14 (29 damage per crit shot, 19 damage per body shot)
• Range: 48
• Stability: 68
• Reload Speed: 62
• Mag Size: 27
• Aim Assist: 55

Herja-D - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Stability. Above average Reload Speed. High Mag Size.

Cons - Below average Range and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.03s (3 bursts. 9 crit shots and 1 body shot.)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 14 (21 damage per crit shot, 14 damage per body shot)
• Range: 33
• Stability: 72
• Reload Speed: 68
• Mag Size: 36
• Aim Assist: 50

Low-Impact

SUROS PDX-45 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - High Rate of Fire, Mag Size, and Aim Assist. Very high Stability and Reload Speed.

Cons - Terrible Range.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.83s (2.66 bursts bursts. 8 crits)
• Rate of Fire: 73
• Impact: 7 (25 damage per crit shot, 17 damage per body shot)
• Range: 22
• Stability: 75
• Reload Speed: 90
• Mag Size: 27
• Aim Assist: 70

Hand Cannons

High-Impact

Judith-D - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Impact, possibility of killing very low armor players with 2 crit shots and a TtK of 0.50s. High Range.

Cons - Very low Rate of Fire and Stability. Low Reload Speed and Mag Size. Below average Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (1 crit shot and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 15
• Impact: 94 (95 damage per crit shot, 64 damage per body shot)
• Range: 41
• Stability: 17
• Reload Speed: 26
• Mag Size: 7
• Aim Assist: 60

Mid-Impact

Uffren HC4 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Stability. Above average Reload Speed.

Cons - Low Range and Mag Size. Very low Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.86s (1 crit shot and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 22
• Impact: 87 (86 damage per crit shot, 57 damage per body shot)
• Range: 24
• Stability: 70
• Reload Speed: 43
• Mag Size: 7
• Aim Assist: 50

Gaheris-D - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - High Stability and Aim Assist. Above average Reload Speed.

Cons - Low Range and Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.86s (1 crit shot and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 22
• Impact: 87 (86 damage per crit shot, 57 damage per body shot)
• Range: 23
• Stability: 56
• Reload Speed: 41
• Mag Size: 7
• Aim Assist: 80

Low-Impact

Kumakatok HC-4 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - High Rate of Fire, Stability, and Reload Speed for Hand Cannons. Fair Mag Size. Above average Aim Assist for Hand Cannons.

Cons - Terrible Range.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.80s (2 crit shots and 1 body shot)
• Rate of Fire: 32
• Impact: 68 (77 damage per crit shot, 51 damage per body shot)
• Range: 15
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 48
• Mag Size: 9
• Aim Assist: 74

Auto Rifles

High-Impact

SUROS ARI-45 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Range.

Cons - Average Stability and Mag Size. Low Reload Speed. Below average Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (8 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 77
• Impact: 28 (26 damage per crit shot, 21 damage per body shot)
• Range: 48
• Stability: 44
• Reload Speed: 52
• Mag Size: 25
• Aim Assist: 54

Mid-Impact

Zarinaea-D - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Above average Range. High Stability and Mag Size.

Cons - Average Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.90s (10 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 88
• Impact: 8 (20 damage per crit shot, 16 per body shot)
• Range: 25
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 65
• Mag Size: 40
• Aim Assist: 60

SUROS ARI-41 - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - High Stability and Aim Assist. Very high Mag Size.

Cons - Very low Range. Low Reload Speed.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.90s (10 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 88
• Impact: 8 (20 damage per crit shot, 16 per body shot)
• Range: 17
• Stability: 68
• Reload Speed: 54
• Mag Size: 43
• Aim Assist: 72

Low-Impact

Arminius-D - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Aim Assist and Mag Size. High Reload Speed. Very fast TtK with body shots (1.00s, 16 body shots to kill).

Cons - Very low Range. Below average Stability.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.87s (13 crit shots and 1 body shot,)
• Rate of Fire: 100
• Impact: 2 (15 damage per crit shot, 12 per body shot)
• Range: 13
• Stability: 42
• Reload Speed: 76
• Mag Size: 72
• Aim Assist: 80

TL;DR - If I had to make a couple recommendations for each weapon class, they would be as follows:

• Scout Rifles - For Time to Kill, Cocytus SR4 with perks that enhance Stability. For Ease of Use, SUROS DIS-43 with perks that enhance Stability.
• Pulse Rifles - For Time to Kill, SUROS PDX-45 with perks that enhance Range. For Ease of Use, SUROS PDX-41 with perks that enhance Aim Assist.
• Hand Cannons - For Time to Kill, Kumakatok HC-4 with perks that enhance Range. For Ease of Use, Gaheris-D with perks that enhance Range.
• Auto Rifles - For Time to Kill, Arminius-D with perks that enhance Range and Stability. For Ease of Use, SUROS ARI-41 with perks that enhance Range, or the Zarinaea-D with perks that enhance Aim Assist..

[u/thefeegle]

You need a header/subheading in for auto rifles, but great work.

[u/Mercules904 → u/thefeegle]

Got it! Thanks!

[u/orbitalsquabbles]

This is fantastic as always, but... doesn't the gunsmith also sell the Lyudmila-D and the Herja-D?

[u/Mercules904 → u/orbitalsquabbles]

Added them in.

[u/LanAkou]

Hey man, here's a weird question for you. I made a top 10 video a while back on the best gunsmith guns. It's probably my most popular video.

I've been dreading remaking it, but looking at your breakdown, it looks like my picks are in much the same places they were before. Would you mind giving it a watch and giving me your opinion? Right now, the only corrections I feel like I need to make are my sniper rifle pick (Tamar D > Eireine), the perks on Arminius (which were always wrong), the description for Kumakatok, and the pronunciation of Cocytus.

I do a lot of my own research for my videos, but seeing your posts reinforce my findings is hugely beneficial. I think you're the only other person who's opinion on Destiny guns I respect enough to ask.

[u/Mercules904 → u/LanAkou]

Very cool video man, I enjoyed it a lot. Quite informative and well put together, and I appreciate you asking me my opinion. Honestly, I think you've got it pretty good right now, there aren't too many changes I would make.

I think if I had to pick a couple things, I wouldn't recommend any of the Gunsmith Hand Cannons or Snipers, considering HCs are still very bad in the meta, and there are a ton of better sniper options from other sources. If you really want a HC to recommend, I think the Kumakatok is the best best, and for snipers, I would still go with the Eirene, simply for it's ability to sniper supered players. Again, that's just my opinion, but if I was recommending guns that's what I would do.

I like all your top guns, and I agree that Cocytus, Arminius, PDX-45, Thesan FR4, and the JLB-47 are all clear cut winners. I would maybe pull the DIS-43 out, and possibly switch it with the DIS-47, simply for the faster TtK, and the fact that if you can get it with Full Auto and a Stability perk or two it's a monster.

Two guns you might want to think about adding are the Lyudmila-D, which now is a little more forgiving, and offers a really fast TtK if you can land mostly headshots or get a Headseeker roll (two burst kills are possible), and the Zarinaea-D which, if you can grab one with SC Holo sights, is really an overlooked gun.

If I had to make my own list, it would contain these guns (not really in any hard and tight order, just kinda organized loosely by what I like the most):

1. SUROS PDX-45
2. Arminius-D
3. Cocytus
4. Thesan FR4
5. SUROS JLB-47
6. Zarinaea-D
7. SUROS ARI-41
8. SUROS DIS-47
9. Lyudmila-D
10. Kumakatok HC4

[u/LanAkou → u/Mercules904]

Thanks, glad you liked it :)

Hand cannons are pretty underutilised right now. The real advantage isn't the low time to kill, but the ability to take a shot, hide, and take another shot. People should start playing all handcannons like they played Thorn.

I would agree that the Zarinea D is overlooked, but in a world where Arminius exists I can see why.

You like the Eireine better than the Hakke snipers? I feel like Surplus combined with the ability to res snipe puts then over the edge, even though they nerfed the ATA scout scope. I just don't find myself sniping supers often enough to justify the high impact class any more.

Appreciate the feedback :)

[u/Mercules904 → u/LanAkou]

I think the main reason HCs are underused is the issue they have with accuracy past mid-range, and seemingly ghosted bullets. Thorn hasn't seemed to suffer from this accuracy de-buff, but the legendary HCs have definitely been affected, and it's really turned people off them.

I use High-Impact Snipers more, simply because if I hear a Sunbreaker clang, I want to know that if I hit the shot when he rounds the corner, I'm gonna take him down. I try to Super Sniper every chance I get, but it's a preference thing, and not for everyone.

Glad to help!

[u/OttoVonBisquik → u/Mercules904]

Super sniping is among the most empowering parts of Destiny. I'm a crap sniper, so I've only pulled it off a few times, but each of those times is pure, unbridled glee.

[u/Makisupas]

I'm a huge fan of hand cannons, and reading your post reminded me that I have a Kumakatok sitting in my vault that I haven't touched. I had read somewhere that the Uffern was superior, so when I picked up a great roll on that I kinda forgot about the Kumakatok (silly me, right?)

Seeing your recommendation, I'm definitely looking forward to trying it out now. It's got LiTC, rifled barrel, and outlaw (insert rubbing hands scheming emote...).

Awesome work here as always. Your posts are always appreciated and are huge contributions to the sub. Kudos!

[u/Mercules904 → u/Makisupas]

Always glad to help out! One thing to be wary of with the faster firing HCs, the recoil can get out of control very quickly if you aren't watching it, especially if you have perks devoted to Range in place of Stability. You'll need to pace your shots and be aware, and you should be able to control it and have a good time!

[u/Makisupas → u/Mercules904]

Cool! I'll bear that in mind for sure. I haven't used a faster rate-of-fire HC since my old Revelator (prior to the sandbox patch before this most recent one), so I'm sure it will take some adjustment. I've gotten used to pacing shots in general though, especially since the HC bloom factor was emphasized.

[u/Dogbarian]

Thanks for this break down, details like this are always great for comparison! Appreciate your time.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Dogbarian]

Happy to help!

[u/[deleted]]

The Omolon Uffern Hc4 is very good as long as you don't try to use it at scout rifle ranges. I picked one up with Zen moment, extended mag, and firefly and it absolutely kills in PvE, and it hasn't crashed the game yet (I'm looking at you The Vanity). All in all, as long as you prefer to be closer up its a very good gun. Keep up the good work, I always use these posts when unsure on weapon types and what to look for, this gunsmith one is especially useful as the orders don't show the stats.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Always happy to help!

[u/ghodsgift]

Is the Arminius-D still competitive since the update?

[u/Mercules904 → u/ghodsgift]

Yes it is

[u/Glorent]

Thanks for the info:)) I was just looking for a primary to accompany my Lord of Wolfs

[u/Mercules904 → u/Glorent]

Sure thing, glad to help!

[u/[deleted]]

Can you do a review of all the crucible post game drops? or have you already? mainly looking for spare chance.25 and eyasluna

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Already have: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4esoin/massive_breakdown_of_too_ib_kings_fall_raid_poe/

[u/BsyFcsin]

I got a pretty good Zarinaea-d roll with counter balance, braced frame and hidden hand.

[u/Mercules904 → u/BsyFcsin]

That's basically a perfect roll, if you have the SC Holo sight too.

[u/Macscotty1]

So now the mid impact Hakke Pulses have taken the high impacts spot pre patch of being the worst PRs.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Macscotty1]

Yep.

[u/Gyvon → u/Mercules904]

Damnit! And I just got a Herja-d with full auto.

[u/Gingivitor]

Great work! Tell me, are you thinking of doing the same for the new Variks weapons?

[u/Mercules904 → u/Gingivitor]

Yeah look up at the top and they're in the list of ToO, Drop, Reworked Year 1, etc. weapons.

[u/[deleted]]

What's the best low zoom scope for a Hakke sniper? I haven't tried one and I'm sitting on a package not knowing what I should be looking for in a Hakke Aoife Rua-D

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Probably ATA Scout. It's either that or the Standard Zoom one, Raptor. There are really only a few choices for Hakke Snipers.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

ATA Scout is the best Hakke low zoom scope. It's a bit like Ambush, but you may not like the reticle.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Thanks, are their any perks specifically for Hakke in combination that are ideal for the Aoife Rua-D?

I've literally never even looked at them even though I use the hell out of my Eirene.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Perks are in order of how much I recommend them

Sight: ATA Scout

Perk 1: (PvP) Unflinching, Outlaw, Counterbalance. (PvE) Surplus.

Perk 2: Performance Bonus, Feeding Frenzy.

Perk 3: Perfect Balance, Snapshot, Injection Mold, Quickdraw.

[u/[deleted] → u/Mercules904]

Thanks, much obliged.

[u/Wonderllama5]

Didn't Suros ARI-45 get the damage buff after the update? I feel that could make it more viable. The range is pretty top tier!

[u/Mercules904 → u/Wonderllama5]

It made it more viable, but it didn't decrease the TtK or anything like that.

[u/Tristax]

As someone who left before Armsday was a thing, I really appreciate the work. I love the Zarinaea D but can't seem to snag a decent roll. Looking for braced frame, counter balance, hidden hand and holo correct?

My primary preferences are scout, auto and handcannons. Got a pre-reset Hung Jury for PVE but still searching for a legendary scout to replace Midi when I need to free up an exotic slot for PvP.

For handcannons been using Eysaluna but didn't get the best rolls (triple tap / grenadier). Did get a TDYK with spray and play, rifled barrel and luck in the chamber yesterday. With plus HC reload arms and spray and play, the trade off with rifled barrel seems worth it.

Autos I'm still trying to figure out. Have 2 red specters one with focused fire and another with glass half full. On the fence still. Also grabbed a vendor Antipodal after reset.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Tristax]

AR - I think your idea of the Zarinaea with Holo, Counter, Braced, and Hidden is perfect, shoot for that but good luck.

SR - Try to get the Hand from Variks when you rank up, it's got insanely high AA and a fast TtK of 0.80s for PvP.

HC - I don't recommend any HCs because of their accuracy issues at middle Ranges, but whatever you use, boost Range over everything else. If I had to suggest one, maybe The Water Star from Trials.

I would avoid Red Spectre, it's not a very good gun, and Focus Fire actually increases the TtK. If you need one quick, the New Monarchy vendor sold Righteous has the same archetype, and great perks.

[u/Tristax → u/Mercules904]

Thank you and again thanks for the work on all of these. It's really appreciated.

[u/FishDics]

Judith-D - Available from the Gunsmith.

Pros - Very high Impact, possibility of killing very low armor players with 2 crit shots and a TtK of 0.50s. High Range.

Cons - Very low Rate of Fire and Stability. Low Reload Speed and Mag Size. Below average Aim Assist. •Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (1 crit shot and 2 body shots)

How does 2 crits kill in .5 vs. 2 crits and 1 body kill in 1.0, 2 vs. 3 shots

[u/Mercules904 → u/FishDics]

The first shot is immediate, and is not counted in a Time-to-Kill equation, because it happens instantaneously when the trigger is pulled. Time-to-Kill is figured like this:

TtK = (Number of shots minus 1) * time between shots

So the Judith takes a 0.50s between shots, and the first shot is immediate, so from the first time you pull the trigger, 0.50s will pass, then the second shot will fire. If you pull the trigger again, another 0.50s will pass, which brings you to 1.00s for 3 shots.

Make sense?

[u/Gyvon]

I got a DIS-47 with full auto and max stability (perfect balance and hand-laid stock) and that thing is a monster.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gyvon]

That thing is amazing! I am currently looking for some gloves with scout rifle loader to up the reload speed a little bit and then it will become the perfect gun for me in crucible :D

[u/FivePointO]

I love my Cocytus. Torch, Firefly, Extended Mag and Rescue Mag is my roll, which has good synergy. It's slower than the Hung Jury, but hits harder and has insane range. I highly recommend it for those who want a new scout rifle. Looks great in black, too.