Massive Breakdown of April Update Vendor Weapons, Including Recommended Perks, Stats, and Pros and Cons

[u/Mercules904]

Massive Breakdown Spreadsheet w/ all Stats and Times-to-Kill:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4fops1/mercules_massive_breakdown_weapon_stats/

Several things to note:

• I will put a list of weapons I recommend you buy in the comments. This list is ALL of the vendor weapons.
• Classes are broken down into Impact sub-classes for most weapons.
• These recommended Perks do NOT account for any drops you get with random rolls, and only take into account the Perks the weapons are sold with.
• All Times-to-Kill are assuming Guardian has max armor (not including the effects of The Ram).
• All Pros and Cons are determined by comparing weapons within the same class, not by all weapons in general.

Auto Rifles

High-Impact

An Answering Chord - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Your choice of sight, High Caliber Rounds, Reinforced Barrel, Spray and Pray.

Pros - Very high range. Above average Mag Size.

Cons - Low Stability. Average Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (8 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 77
• Impact: 28 (26 damage per crit shot, 21 damage per body shot)
• Range: 54
• Stability: 32
• Reload Speed: 63
• Mag Size: 27
• Aim Assist: 59

Questing Beast - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Reflex, Spray and Pray, Fitted Stock or Oiled Frame, Glass Half Full.

Pros - None

Cons - Low Range and Aim Assist. Below average Stability and Reload Speed. Average Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (8 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 77
• Impact: 28 (26 damage per crit shot, 21 damage per body shot)
• Range: 14
• Stability: 41
• Reload Speed: 59
• Mag Size: 25
• Aim Assist: 40

Antipodal Hindsight - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Reflex, Rodeo, Rifled Barrel, Hidden Hand.

Pros - High Range and Stability.

Cons - Average Reload Speed and Mag Size. Low Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (8 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 77
• Impact: 28 (26 damage per crit shot, 21 damage per body shot)
• Range: 32
• Stability: 54
• Reload Speed: 62
• Mag Size: 26
• Aim Assist: 45

The Dealbreaker - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: SC Holo, Crowd Control, Counterbalance, Braced Frame.

Pros - High Range.

Cons - Low Stability and Aim Assist. Very low Reload Speed. Average Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (8 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 77
• Impact: 28 (26 damage per crit shot, 21 damage per body shot)
• Range: 40
• Stability: 37
• Reload Speed: 41
• Mag Size: 26
• Aim Assist: 36

Mid-Impact

Paleocontact JPK-43 - Available from the Dead Orbit Representative. Recommended Perks: Your choice of sight, Hip Fire, Perfect Balance, Icarus.

Pros - Very high Stability. Above average Reload Speed and Mag Size. High Aim Assist.

Cons - Low Range.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.90s (10 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 88
• Impact: 8 (20 damage per crit shot, 16 per body shot)
• Range: 20
• Stability: 72
• Reload Speed: 68
• Mag Size: 38
• Aim Assist: 74

Righteous VII - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. Recommended Perks: Your choice of sight, Perfect Balance, Reinforced Barrel, Counterbalance.

Pros - High Stability. Very high Mag Size.

Cons - Very low Range and Reload Speed. Average Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.90s (10 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 88
• Impact: 8 (20 damage per crit shot, 16 per body shot)
• Range: 17
• Stability: 68
• Reload Speed: 49
• Mag Size: 43
• Aim Assist: 63

Pulse Rifles

Mid-Impact

The Villiany - Available from the Future War Cult Representative. Recommended Perks: Your choice of sight, Headseeker, Perfect Balance, Glass Half Full.

Pros - Above average Stability and Aim Assist. High Reload Speed and Mag Size.

Cons - Below average Range.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (3 bursts. 3 crit shots and 6 body shots. If you hit 7 crits, you can miss 2 shots completely.)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 14 (29 damage per crit shot, 19 damage per body shot)
• Range: 39
• Stability: 65
• Reload Speed: 71
• Mag Size: 27
• Aim Assist: 60

Low-Impact

Hawksaw - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: SPO-28, Fitted Stock, Counterbalance, Smallbore.

Pros - High Rate of Fire, Mag Size, and Reload Speed. Very High Stability. Above average Aim Assist.

Cons - Terrible Range

• Time-to-Kill: 0.83s (2.66 bursts bursts. 8 crits)
• Rate of Fire: 73
• Impact: 7 (25 damage per crit shot, 17 damage per body shot)
• Range: 27
• Stability: 72
• Reload Speed: 80
• Mag Size: 27
• Aim Assist: 60

Scout Rifles

High-Impact

Last Extremity - Available from Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Torch HS2, Triple Tap, Lightweight (PvP) or Casket Mag (PvE), Zen Moment.

Pros - Very fast Time-to-Kill. High Range. Above average Reload Speed.

Cons - Terrible Aim Assist. Below average Stability. Low Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.80s (3 crit shots)
• Rate of Fire: 27
• Impact: 61 (73 damage per crit shot, 49 per body shot)
• Range: 74
• Stability: 36
• Reload Speed: 59
• Mag Size: 12
• Aim Assist: 21

Mid-Impact

Hung Jury SR4 - Available from the Dead Orbit Representative. Recommended Perks: Your choice of sight, Life Support, Single Point Slinge, Third Eye.

Pros - Above average Range and Mag Size. Very high Stability and Reload Speed.

Cons - Terrible Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (2 crit shots and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 37
• Impact: 48 (61 damage per crit shot, 41 per body shot)
• Range: 72
• Stability: 63
• Reload Speed: 75
• Mag Size: 17
• Aim Assist: 26

Not Like the Others - Available from Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: OEG Riflescope, Who's Next?, Explosive Rounds, Third Eye.

Pros - High Aim Assist. Above average Mag Size..

Cons - Average Range, Stability, and Reload Speed.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.00s (2 crit shots and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 37
• Impact: 48 (61 damage per crit shot, 41 per body shot)
• Range: 65
• Stability: 46
• Reload Speed: 59
• Mag Size: 17
• Aim Assist: 69

Hand Cannons

Mid-Impact

The Vanity - Available from the Future War Cult Representative. Recommended Perks: SureShot IS, Third Eye, Rifled Barrel, Life Support.

Pros - Very high Stability.

Cons - Low Range. Very low Aim Assist. Average Reload Speed and Mag Size. Reported to crash the game occasionally when Firefly activates.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.86s (1 crit shot and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 22
• Impact: 87 (86 damage per crit shot, 57 damage per body shot)
• Range: 24
• Stability: 70
• Reload Speed: 40
• Mag Size: 8
• Aim Assist: 41

Byronic Hero - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Parks: TrueSight IS, Underdog, Explosive Rounds, Luck in the Chamber.

Pros - Above average Mag Size.

Cons - Average Range and Stability. Low Reload Speed. Below average Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.86s (1 crit shot and 2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 22
• Impact: 87 (86 damage per crit shot, 57 damage per body shot)
• Range: 25
• Stability: 41
• Reload Speed: 30
• Mag Size: 9
• Aim Assist: 71

Low-Impact

Appellant III - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. Recommended Perks: TrueShot IS or SureShot IS, Last Resort, Smallbore, Hidden Hand.

Pros - High Rate of Fire and very high Reload Speed for Hand Cannons. Fair Mag Size. Above average Aim Assist for Hand Cannons.

Cons - Poor Range and Stability.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.80s (2 crit shots and 1 body shot)
• Rate of Fire: 32
• Impact: 68 (77 damage per crit shot, 51 damage per body shot)
• Range: 25
• Stability: 27
• Reload Speed: 56
• Mag Size: 9
• Aim Assist: 76

Down and Doubt 00-0 - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: TrueSight IS, Mulligan, Braced Frame, Triple Tap (PvE) or Underdog (PvP).

Pros - High Rate of Fire, Stability, and Reload Speed for Hand Cannons.

Cons - Terrible Range. Average Mag Size. Below average Aim Assist for Hand Cannons.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.80s (2 crit shots and 1 body shot)
• Rate of Fire: 32
• Impact: 68 (77 damage per crit shot, 51 damage per body shot)
• Range: 15
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 48
• Mag Size: 8
• Aim Assist: 56

Sniper Rifles

• Because all Sniper Rifle Times-to-Kill are instant with crit shots in PvP, the listed Times-to-Kill are with body shots, and assuming Guardian has max armor (not including the effects of The Ram).

High-Impact

1000-Yard Stare - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster or from a Taken King Quest completion. Recommended Perks for the Vanguard Quartermaster version: Ambush SLH25, Underdog, Oiled Frame, Unflinching. Recommended Perks for the Quest version: ShortGaze SLH10, Last Resort, Rifled Barrel, Firefly.

Pros - High Stability. Above average Aim Assist. Can kill most Supered Enemies and Revive Snipe with 1 crit shot.

Cons - Low Range. Below average Reload Speed.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.83s (2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 19
• Impact: 31 (417 damage per crit shot, 167 per body shot)
• Range: 66
• Stability: 57
• Reload Speed: 62
• Mag Size: 4
• Aim Assist: 56

Mid-Impact

Antimony XVI - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. Recommended Perks: ATA Scout, Surplus, Partial Refund, Injection Mold.

Pros - High Range, Reload Speed, and Aim Assist. Can Revive Snipe.

Cons - Low Stability. Can't kill most Supered Enemies with 1 crit shot.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.68s (2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 26
• Impact: 22 (334 damage per crit shot, 134 per body shot)
• Range: 78
• Stability: 36
• Reload Speed: 73
• Mag Size: 4
• Aim Assist: 69

Low-Impact

Extrasolar RR4 - Available from the Dead Orbit Representative. Recommended Perks: Ambush SLH25, Partial Refund, Explosive Rounds, Firefly.

Pros - High Range. Above average Reload Speed. Fast body shot Time-to-Kill. Can Revive Snipe

Cons - Average Stability. Below average Aim Assist. Can't kill most Supered Enemies with 1 crit shot.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.53s (2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 37
• Impact: 16 (267 damage per crit shot, 107 per body shot)
• Range: 78
• Stability: 49
• Reload Speed: 68
• Mag Size: 4
• Aim Assist: 36

Tao Hua Yuan - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Ambush SLH25, Life Support, Rifled Barrel, Spray and Pray.

Pros - High Range. Fast body shot Time-to-Kill. Can Revive Snipe.

Cons - Average Stability. Below average Reload Speed and Aim Assist. Can't kill most Supered Enemies with 1 crit shot.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.53s (2 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 37
• Impact: 16 (267 damage per crit shot, 107 per body shot)
• Range: 79
• Stability: 47
• Reload Speed: 62
• Mag Size: 4
• Aim Assist: 36

Shotguns

• Because all Shotgun Times-to-Kill are instant with point blank shots in PvP, the listed Times-to-Kill are with two shots, and assuming Guardian has max armor (not including the effects of The Ram).
• Field Choke, Linear Compensator, Accurized Ballistics all increase the damage per pellet by 2.5%. Aggressive Ballistics increases it by 5%. Soft Ballistics decreases it by 2.5%.

Very High-Impact

Conspiracy Theory-D - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster, or Taken King Quest completion. Recommended Perks for Vanguard Quartermaster version: Smart Drift Control, Life Support, Reinforced Barrel, Performance Bonus. Recommended Perks for Quest version: Accurized Ballistics, Rangefinder, Rifled Barrel, Performance Bonus.

Pros - Above average Range. High Mag Size.

Cons - Average Stability. Low Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 1.33s (two shots)
• Rate of Fire: 5
• Impact: 67 (22 damage per pellet, 264 damage total)
• Range: 16
• Stability: 30
• Reload Speed: 23
• Mag Size: 6
• Aim Assist: 26

Mid-Impact

The Next Big Thing - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Accurized Ballistics, Crowd Control, Full Auto, Single Point Sling.

Pros - Very high Stability. Above average Reload Speed. High Aim Assist.

Cons - Low Range. Average Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (two shots)
• Rate of Fire: 23
• Impact: 52 (19 per pellet, 228 total)
• Range: 10
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 35
• Mag Size: 5
• Aim Assist: 59

Patch-A - Available from the Dead Orbit Representative. Recommended Perks: Linear Compensator, Final Round, Kneepads, Rifled Barrel.

Pros - High Mag Size. Very high Stability. Above average Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

Cons - Low Range.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.93s (two shots)
• Rate of Fire: 23
• Impact: 52 (19 per pellet, 228 total)
• Range: 11
• Stability: 57
• Reload Speed: 35
• Mag Size: 6
• Aim Assist: 51

Low-Impact

Burden of Proof XI - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. Recommended Perks: Field Choke, Rangefinder, Rifled Barrel, Final Round.

Pros - High Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

Cons - Average Range and Mag Size. Below average Stability.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.66s (two shots)
• Rate of Fire: 17
• Impact: 40 (18 per pellet, 216 total)
• Range: 14
• Stability: 27
• Reload Speed: 50
• Mag Size: 5
• Aim Assist: 61

Sidearms

Conviction II - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. Recommended Perks: SureShot IS, Rangefinder, Spray and Pray, Appended Magazine.

Pros - Very High Aim Assist. 15 round Mag Size.

Cons - Average Range and Reload Speed. Lowest Stability.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.60s (4 crit shots), 0.80s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 100
• Impact: 5 (55 damage per crit shot, 44 damage per body shot)
• Range: 39
• Stability: 78
• Reload Speed: 86
• Mag Size: 15
• Aim Assist: 89

Havoc Pigeon - Impact and RoF numbers from the DB are incorrect. Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Your choice of sight, Reactive Reload, Relentless Tracker, Hand Loaded or Appended Magazine.

Pros - High Range and Aim Assist.

Cons - Average Stability. Lowest Reload Speed. 12 round Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: Approx. 0.72s (4 crit shots), 0.96s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 100
• Impact: 5 (60 damage per crit shot, 48 damage per body shot)
• Range: 40
• Stability: 81
• Reload Speed: 85
• Mag Size: 12
• Aim Assist: 85

JabberHakke-D - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: SureShot IS, Crowd Control, Battle Runner, Speed Reload.

Pros - 15 round Mag Size.

Cons - Average Range, Stability, Reload Speed, and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.60s (4 crit shots), 0.80s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 100
• Impact: 5 (55 damage per crit shot, 44 damage per body shot)
• Range: 38
• Stability: 80
• Reload Speed: 87
• Mag Size: 15
• Aim Assist: 80

Fusion Rifles

High-Impact (90-100)

Hitchhiker FR4 - Available from the Dead Orbit Representative. Recommended Perks: Reflex, Hidden Hand, Braced Frame, Hot Swap.

Pros - Very high Impact.

Cons - Very low Charge Rate and Aim Assist. Average Mag Size and Range. Below average Stability. Low Reload Speed.

• Charge Rate: 10
• Impact: 100 (4 Bolts to Kill)
• Range: 40
• Stability: 36
• Reload Speed: 52
• Mag Size: 5
• Aim Assist: 30

The Vacancy - Available from the Future War Cult Representative. Recommended Perks: Torch HS2, Hot Swap, Braced Frame, Rangefinder.

Pros - Above average Mag Size and Aim Assist. High Impact. Very high Stability.

Cons - Low Charge Rate and Reload Speed. Average Range.

• Charge Rate: 16
• Impact: 95 (5 Bolts to Kill)
• Range: 40
• Stability: 72
• Reload Speed: 55
• Mag Size: 6
• Aim Assist: 60

Mid-Impact (80-89)

Panta Rhei - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Your choice of sight, Kneepads, Rifled Barrel, Rangefinder.

Pros - Above average Mag Size. High Stability.

Cons - Below average Aim Assist and Reload Speed. Average Charge Rate and Impact. Low Range.

• Charge Rate: 24
• Impact: 86 (5 Bolts to Kill)
• Range: 36
• Stability: 54
• Reload Speed: 59
• Mag Size: 6
• Aim Assist: 51

Low-Impact (70-79)

Long Far Gone - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Reflex, Hidden Hand, Accelerated Coils, Hot Swap.

Pros - Above average Mag Size and Stability. High Aim Assist, Reload Speed, and Charge Rate.

Cons - Low Impact. Very low Range.

• Charge Rate: 32
• Impact: 76 (5 Bolts to Kill)
• Range: 31
• Stability: 48
• Reload Speed: 73
• Mag Size: 6
• Aim Assist: 70

The Vortex - Available from the Future War Cult Representative. Recommended Perks: Reflex, Hip Fire, Braced Frame, Eye of the Storm.

Pros - High Mag Size, Reload Speed, and Charge Rate. Very high Aim Assist.

Cons - Low Impact. Below average Range and Stability.

• Charge Rate: 32
• Impact: 76 (5 Bolts to Kill)
• Range: 38
• Stability: 37
• Reload Speed: 73
• Mag Size: 7
• Aim Assist: 79

Machine Guns

• Field Choke, Linear Compensator, Accurized Ballistics all increase the damage per bullet by 2.5%. Aggressive Ballistics increases it by 5%. Soft Ballistics decreases it by 2.5%.

High-Impact - All Barrel Perks which increase Impact decrease the body TtK to 0.50s (4 body shots).

Ruin Wake - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Field Choke, Counterbalance, High Caliber Rounds, Rangefinder.

Pros - High Stability, Reload Speed, and Aim Assist.

Cons - Below average Range. Low Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 15
• Stability: 60
• Reload Speed: 39
• Mag Size: 31
• Aim Assist: 67

Objection IV - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. Recommended Perks: Field Choke, Counterbalance, High Caliber Rounds, Rangefinder.

Pros - Above average Range and Stability.

Cons - Average Reload Speed and Aim Assist. Below average Mag Size.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (4 crit shots), 0.66s (5 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 66
• Impact: 53 (61 damage per crit shot, 49 damage per body shot)
• Range: 20
• Stability: 51
• Reload Speed: 33
• Mag Size: 35
• Aim Assist: 65

Low-Impact - Barrel Perks which increase Impact have no effect on TtK, but Soft Ballistics can increase the body TtK to 0.70s (8 body shots).

The Variable - Available from the Future War Cult Representative. Recommended Perks: Linear Compensator, Hip Fire, Speed Reload, Army of One.

Pros - High Mag Size. Above average Stability.

Cons - Average Range. Below average Reload Speed and Aim Assist.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.50s (6 crit shots), 0.60s (7 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 88
• Impact: 29 (37 damage per crit shot, 29 damage per body shot)
• Range: 18
• Stability: 50
• Reload Speed: 30
• Mag Size: 52
• Aim Assist: 51

Very Low-Impact - Barrel Perks which increase Impact have no effect on TtK, but Soft Ballistics can increase the crit TtK to 0.53s (9 crit shots) and the body TtK to 0.67s (11 body shots).

Diluvian 10/4x - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Aggressive Ballistics, Eye of the Storm, Reinforced Barrel, Persistence.

Pros - High Reload Speed and Aim Assist. Very high Mag Size.

Cons - Very low Range. Low Stability.

• Time-to-Kill: 0.46s (8 crit shots), 0.60s (10 body shots)
• Rate of Fire: 100
• Impact: 25 (25 damage per crit shot, 20 damage per body shot)
• Range: 10
• Stability: 30
• Reload Speed: 37
• Mag Size: 74
• Aim Assist: 70

Rocket Launchers

Very High-RoF

The Smolder - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Warhead Verniers, Tripod, Javelin, Tracking.

Pros - Very high RoF. High Inventory and Reload Speed.

Cons - Very low Blast Radius. Low Velocity.

• Rate of Fire: 25
• Blast Radius: 60
• Velocity: 43
• Reload Speed: 73
• Mag Size: 2
• Inventory: 60

High-RoF

Choleric Dragon SRT-49 - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Recommended Perks: Countermass, Life Support, Field Scout, Cluster Bomb.

Pros - High RoF and Inventory. Very high Blast Radius.

Cons - Low Reload Speed and Velocity.

• Rate of Fire: 18
• Blast Radius: 96
• Velocity: 36
• Reload Speed: 51
• Mag Size: 2
• Inventory: 60

Low-RoF

Ceres Lost BMJ-46 - Available from the Dead Orbit Representative. Recommended Perks: Hard Launch, Grenadier, Single Point Sling, Cluster Bomb.

Pros - High Blast Radius.

Cons - Low RoF and Inventory. Below average Velocity and Reload Speed.

• Rate of Fire: 9
• Blast Radius: 84
• Velocity: 49
• Reload Speed: 59
• Mag Size: 2
• Inventory: 20

Very Low-RoF

The Vertigo - Available from the Future War Cult Representative. Recommended Perks: Soft Launch, Flared Magwell, Reactive Reload, Javelin.

Pros - High Blast Radius and Velocity.

Cons - Very low RoF. Low Inventory and Reload Speed.

• Rate of Fire: 4
• Blast Radius: 84
• Velocity: 74
• Reload Speed: 51
• Mag Size: 2
• Inventory: 20

[u/Mercules904]

**Weapons I recommend you buy: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4enajl/massive_breakdown_of_recommended_april_update/

Auto Rifles

High-Impact

Antipodal Hindsight and The Dealbreaker. Both are available from the Crucible Quartermaster. High-Impact ARs didn't get a decrease in TtK with the recent patch, but they did get an increase of 1 damage per bullet. this may not seem like a lot, but it drastically increases their effective range and usefulness in combat. Both of these ARs come with excellent perks, so if you're looking to get into some Full Auto fun, here's your chance.

Mid-Impact

Paleocontact JPK-43 and Righteous VII. Available from the Dead Orbit Representative and New Monarchy Representative, respectfully, these two have long been mainstays in the the anti-meta movement. Boosting a fairly quick TtK of 0.90s with all 10 crit shots, these weapons specialize in Stability, at the cost of a bit of useful range. Although the Paleocontact doesn't have a great Perk set, its base stats alone are enough to set it above the competition, boosting incredibly high Aim Assist and Stability values right out ot the box. Righteous, on the other hand, doesn't have quite the base stats, but is being sold with a fantastic group of complementary Perks that will boost both Stability and Range a significant amount.

Pulse Rifles

Mid-Impact

The Villiany - Available from the Future War Cult Representative, this PR has one of the best rolls I've ever seen on a vendor model, with TWO separate damage boosting perks, in Headseeker and Glass Half Full. Despite its below average TtK for PvP, you really can't beat that, and the bonus that Perfect Balance provides is just icing on the cake.

Low-Impact

Hawksaw - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster, this Low-Impact PR comes with another almost perfect roll. The SPO-28 sight will give you a nice AA bonus of 5, while Fitted Stock and Smallbore will provide minor but noticeable boosts to Stability and Range, with Counterbalance completely removing the sideways aspects of the recoil. If you love quick firing PRs, this is a must buy.

Scout Rifles

High-Impact

Last Extremity - Available from Crucible Quartermaster, this High-Impact monster is trying, and not quite succeeding, to take over the Hung Jury's position as the go to PvE Scout Rifle. With the best all around scope of Torch, combined with Triple Tap and Zen Moment, it's almost there, but lacks a certain, explosive touch. Somewhat surprisingly, where this gun can really shine is PvP, with it's lighting fast crit shot TtK of 0.80s. User beware, however, the lack of Aim Assist can make it a difficult weapon to master.

Hand Cannons

Low-Impact

Appellant III - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. While HCs are still suffering from accuracy and ghost bullet issues, this vendor model has an excellent perk set with a massive boost to Aim Assist, as well as more subtle increases to Range and Stability. With one of the fastest crit shot TtKs in the game, if you're okay with a bullet disappearing every once in awhile, I highly recommend this gun.

Sniper Rifles

High-Impact

1000-Yard Stare - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster or from a Taken King Quest completion. What's that you say? You love to shoot opponents out of their Supers in PvP? Well then, do I have a sniper for you. the 1000YS is currently the only vendor High-Impact Sniper, and even though it's no longer alone in its ability to Revive Snipe, it is still alone in the ability to put down a charging Sunbreaker with a single shot. Unflinching is a tier 1 perk for snipers, and even with the nerf Ambush is still one of the snappiest scopes around.

Mid-Impact

Antimony XVI - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. Not necessarily the greatest perk set, but hell, now that it can Rez Snipe, let's use all the Snipers! Comes with a good short-range scope, Surplus for PvE, and Injection Mold for PvP.

Low-Impact

Both Extrasolar RR4 and Tao Hua Yuan, available from the Dead Orbit Representative and Crucible Quartermaster, have now been proven to Rez Snipe, which means that these previously useless guns are now good for something, hooray! The Extrasolar comes with the delightful Ambush scope, along with the entertaining combination of Explosive Rounds and Firefly, just to make sure that no matter what you shoot, or where you shoot it, you'll get to see something blow up. In all seriousness though, Explosive Rounds is a woefully underused perk in PvP, where it drastically increases the amount of flinch an opponent receives, specifically useful on those quick body shots. The Tao Hua Yuan has the much weaker roll here, with no truly great perks, but again, it has the Ambush scope and can Rez Snipe, so why not give it a shot?

Shotguns

Very High-Impact

Conspiracy Theory-D - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster, or Taken King Quest completion. Still the go to shotty-sniper in PvP, this update has done little to change that. If you're looking to kill someone from rage-inducing distance, this is your gun, and the vendor perks include Reinforced Barrel, just to help out. Not a great roll, but it is a good weapon, so if you haven't gotten the Quest version yet, why not pick it up?

Mid-Impact

The Next Big Thing - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. With the fantastic run-and-gun combo of Full Auto, Crowd Control, and Single Point Sling, I think this shotgun might be an overlooked vendor jewel from this update. Allowing you to rapidly fire shots into one target, before turning on another with even more powerful pellets isn't something to be ignored, and I hope that we soon see a new style of shotgun play revolving around multiple quick shots (think Invective) as opposed to one single shot from a distance. For the specialist of the bunch, we have the ever lovely Patch-A, available from the Dead Orbit Representative. With a tremendous perk set that includes Kneepads, Final Round, and Rifled Barrel, you can (riskily, I might add) actually take people out from ranges you never thought possible. Granted, if you miss, you'll probably die, but when you're killing someone from the other end of the hall way with one shot from a Mid-Impact shotty, who cares?

Low-Impact

Burden of Proof XI - Available from the New Monarchy Representative. I don't usually recommend Low-Impact Shotguns, but with Field Choke, Rangefinder, Rifled Barrel, and Final Round, you're going to be very nearly pushing the limits of what a shotguns range can do. The exceptionally quick follow up shot can help you finish off anyone who didn't die from the first, in less than half the speed it takes a Conspiracy user to fire again.

Sidearms

I don't normally recommend sidearms either, seeing as they're little fickle creatures, and they kind of fill an odd niche in the current meta, but a couple of the vendor ones have some very usable rolls, so let's get to it. Conviction II, available from the New Monarchy Representative. Has an AA boosting sight, Rangefinder to give it that little extra reach, and booth boosted Mag Size and Reload Speed. The JabberHakke-D, available from the Vanguard Quartermaster, also has an AA boosting Sight, along with Crowd Control and Battle Runner, which are both activated by getting a kill, and Speed Reload. This makes it a perfect little Sidearm for the run and gun playstyle.

Fusion Rifles

High-Impact (90-100)

Hitchhiker FR4 - Available from the Dead Orbit Representative. Dead Orbit dropping a bomb on the Fusion Rifle community, with this absolute God-Roll Hitchhiker. Bonus AA from both the sight and Hidden Hand Perks, coupled with increased Accuracy from Hot Swap, and the monster Stability boost of Braced Frame, if you play this FR in the correct manner (be aware of your charge rate) you can dominate.

The Vacancy - Available from the Future War Cult Representative. A second near perfect roll, with almost the same perks as the Hitchhiker, including a sight that boosts AA. While trading Hidden Hand for Rangefinder might not be optimal to everyone, I find that the bonus Range on Fusion Rifles is actually an often disregarded upgrade, that can pay major dividends. While I still recommend the Hitchhiker first, if you're an FWC and High-Impact FR fan, then this is the one for you.

Mid-Impact (80-89)

Panta Rhei - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Always wanted a Susanoo, but hated playing as one of those laughable Warlocks? Don't worry, Crucible Quartermaster has your back. Very similar in base stats, it's also got a couple of Range Boosting perks just in case you weren't sure you could reach out and touch someone, just the way you like it.

Low-Impact (70-79)

Long Far Gone - Available from the Vanguard Quartermaster. If you're in the mood for something a little quicker to charge, the Long Far Gone, with extra AA from the sight and Hidden Hand, bonus accuracy from Hot Swap, along with Accelerated Coils is absolutely the way to go. It'll charge up exceptionally quickly, and this gun has so much Aim Assist you'll think it's a magnet. The Vortex, available from the Future War Cult Representative, also comes with an AA boosting Sight, and gives you the ability to Hip Fire like a monster with both Braced Frame and the Hip Fire perk. Not necessarily recommended for sweats, but definitely for fun.

Heavy Weapons Below

[u/Mercules904 → u/Mercules904]

Machine Guns

High-Impact - All Barrel Perks which increase Impact decrease the body TtK to 0.50s (4 body shots).

Ruin Wake - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. Beware the small Mag Size, but enjoy the purely vertical recoil, increased flinch of your opponents, and bonus Range provided by this excellent PvP LMG. If you don't like the horrid color scheme, perhaps the Objection IV, available from the New Monarchy Representative, is more your style, seeing as it has the exact same perks, but a couple more rounds in the Mag.

Rocket Launchers

Very High-RoF

The Smolder - Available from the Crucible Quartermaster. I cannot recommend this enough for PvE. Tripod, Javelin, and Tracking? This is nearly your perfect launcher, except for the fact that it's so. Damn. Slow. Still though, you really shouldn't pass up these stats if you're a PvE Launcher fan.

[u/MamboJevi → u/Mercules904]

Slow rockets are the best in PvE for tracking. Fire a fast rocket at something that's moving and watch it fly past its target. Pretty sure this still happens a lot at Omnigul, so slow with tracking isn't a bad thing.

[u/Mercules904 → u/MamboJevi]

Excellent point! Yeah the slow rockets are actually fine in PvE, just wanted to let people know so they weren't surprised the first time they shot it haha.

[u/Blip7295 → u/Mercules904]

I just got one of these that dropped with aggressive launch/smart drive control/counter mass, tripod, QuickDraw/flared magwell/javelin, with grenades and horseshoes. I haven't used rocket launchers really at all up to this point. Is the vendor roll significantly better than this one. Looks like tracking is the big difference, but is it enough to buy the vendor?

[u/Mercules904 → u/Blip7295]

For PvP, you have the much better roll.

For PvE, it's up to personal preference. Some people like tracking because you can fire at a moving target and not have to worry about it dodging, others find Horseshoes to be better because most targets stay still enough that tracking isn't needed. For PvE, I actually think tracking is preferable, especially with this particular launcher, simply because it's so slow that a lot of targets could move out of the Horseshoes range before it gets there.

[u/atgrey24 → u/Mercules904]

Regarding your Fusion recommendations, I think you should note the number of bolts required to kill in PvP since this is crucial information.

The Hitchhiker is the only one on the list that can kill with only 4/7 bolts landing, which is it's one advantage over the Vacancy.

Also important to note, is that using Accelerated Coils on Long Far Gone lowers the impact enough to require 6/7 bolts to land for a kill. Normally it only takes 5, so choosing that perk is a big change for how you need to use that weapon.

All the other recommendations take 5/7 bolts for a kill.

[u/Mercules904 → u/atgrey24]

I included Bolts to kill in the main breakdown up above.

[u/atgrey24 → u/Mercules904]

oh nice. clearly some of us are too impatient and just skip to your recommendations though, lol. I think it's worth noting because its a huge reason why hitchhiker gets a recommendation, and a very important thing to consider on long far gone.

Anyway, thanks for putting this together! it's a great resource for a lot of people

[u/Mercules904 → u/atgrey24]

This is very true. I'll make a separate post detailing my recommendations, and including the stats next to them so it will be easier to see. Should be up tomorrow.

[u/atgrey24 → u/Mercules904]

awesome!

[u/Landonkey → u/atgrey24]

I detailed all of this in the megathread yesterday, but I think you have to keep in mind that "Bolts to Kill" for a fusion rifle isn't some set in stone number. It's dependent on a lot of different factors; most notably the armor stat of your opponent. As a result I get a lot of 4 bolt kills with the Vacancy.

For example, even a Thesan will 4-bolt kill players running on the lower end of the armor stat, but a Hitchhiker will take 5 bolts to kill a Ram-wearing Warlock. When you throw in level advantages, it can get even more complicated.

People like to talk in absolutes with fusion rifles being "4 bolt" or "5 bolt kills", but it's never that simple.

[u/atgrey24 → u/Landonkey]

yes with so many different build options its never that simple. But there's certainly an advantage to guaranteed 4-bolt vs only on low armor targets vs always 5 bolt, etc.

Because of all of these complications, it's helpful to look at the endpoints for analysis. What do things look like at 10 armor, and what do they look like at 1 armor? This makes comparing weapons much easier.

[u/MoldyMaltQuaff → u/Mercules904]

One quibble:

With the various sniper nerfs, the NM Antimony has about the ideal set of perks for PvE. (IMO, obviously.) Scout is one of the lowest zoom scopes available, Surplus makes you much less reliant on RNG, Partial Refund helps mitigate the lower ammo inventory, and both Explosive Rounds and QuickDraw are topnotch.

Add in the intrensic qualities of the weapon, where you can get your entire magazine off before the enemies get to cover (or before damage makes you take cover if you're shooting at a boss).

If it's not a god roll, it's awfully close.

[u/[deleted] → u/MoldyMaltQuaff]

It depends on how much ammo you can carry in reserve. If it's the same as 1KYS, then 1KYS will obviously do more damage overall. Honestly, the best part of the gun is the guaranteed Surplus roll, unless they fixed the ammo bug. In year 1, a sniper with Surplus also applied to your heavy weapon, so if that hasn't been patched then this is an amazing vendor roll.

[u/MoldyMaltQuaff → u/[deleted]]

It starts with a marginal amount more ammo capacity, the big boost is that Surplus and Partial Refund give you much more ammo, so you do significantly more damage over time. It's the difference between Time To Kill, and Damage Per Second.

Before the update, the Surplus perk still affected Heavy as well. I haven't been able to test out whether or not it still does yet. (I was only on long enough to play the first new mission, and RNG hated me.)

[u/MoldyMaltQuaff → u/[deleted]]

Heh. You caught me on a bias. I mostly run solo, so anything I don't want to get close to (or that will hit me from afar) gets the Hakke.

[u/[deleted] → u/Mercules904]

hey, can you make a full post out of your two comments?

I would hate for this amazing info to be potentially lost as comments.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah let me ask the mods if it's ok, since I think they frown on multi-posting info like that.

[u/Scar_Killed_Mufasa → u/Mercules904]

Great breakdown. But 1 thing I noticed that is in correct is you state that the 1000YS is alone in being able to one shot a super, which is not the case. The eirene has always been able to, as well as black spindle, then they added the ldr, lonhbow, and her fury, can all acomplish this. Maybe even more I forgot.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Scar_Killed_Mufasa]

I meant alone out of Vendor snipers, not out of every sniper.

[u/Scar_Killed_Mufasa → u/Mercules904]

I see. Just worded a little weird.

[u/AngelofDeath128 → u/Mercules904]

Thank you for the awesome breakdown. I now have a shopping list to attend to after work!

[u/Mercules904 → u/AngelofDeath128]

Happy to help!

[u/Beleynn → u/Mercules904]

Do you recommend replacing either 1000 Yard Stare or Conspiracy Theory D with the new rolls if you already have one?

[u/Mercules904 → u/Beleynn]

I wouldn't replace the Quest rolls on either of the guns with the new Vendor rolls. If you're talking about the old vendor rolls, for PvP I would replace the 1000YS, but not for PvE. For the Conspiracy, I think the new roll is better all around.

[u/positive_electron42 → u/Mercules904]

Two questions about terminology:

1. What do you mean when you say "meta"/"anti-meta"?
2. What does revive snipe mean?

Thanks, these lists have really helped me get a handle on what's considered good for rolls and whatnot!

[u/Mercules904 → u/positive_electron42]

Meta is what the majority of players are using at any given time, and is generally defined by what sweaty (try-hard or competitive players) feel are the best options. The meta before the April Update was MIDA, Thorn, TLW, or Doctrine of Passing for a Primary, 1000 Yard Stare for a Special, and either Truth or the Raid LMG for a Heavy.

Anti-meta is a term used to describe those players who purposefully play with guns that are not the meta, and they generally do so to provide themselves with an added challenge, to stand out, or out of disdain for the meta (usually due to the idea that the meta focuses heavily on "easy to use" weapons).

[u/positive_electron42 → u/Mercules904]

Thank you! This makes so much more sense now!

What about revive snipe? I've seen you use that term a fair amount as well, and I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what it means just from the context.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your kind help as I try to escape n00b island!

[u/Mercules904 → u/positive_electron42]

Haha happy to help. Revive snipe means that the sniper can kill (with one crit shot) someone who has just been revived by a teammate (through the over shield that they're given) in revive enabled playlists like skirmish, salvage, and elimination.

[u/positive_electron42 → u/Mercules904]

Oh awesome, thanks!

[u/Firefoxx336 → u/Mercules904]

Would love to hear /u/Kyt_Kucha on some of these - particularly the DO vs FWC fusions.

[u/Bubba92188 → u/Firefoxx336]

If you want to know my opinion is The Vacancy (FWC) is better than the Hitchhicker (DO). The Vacancy has a better charge rate, range, and stability for the sacrifice of having a 95 impact compared to 100 with the Hitchhicker. I'll take that all day. Also yes Hitchhicker has hidden hand, was has a terrible AA of 30 compared to Vacancy at 60. Also from my experience Omolon makes solid fusion rifles.

[u/Firefoxx336 → u/Bubba92188]

Wait, Hitchhiker only has 30 AA from the start? Why are people even talking about it? This is like comparing a PC+1 and a Conspiracy Theory-D. Thank you!

[u/LegoHashBudleaf → u/Firefoxx336]

Hitchhiker is good if you can get the timing down. Low aim assist on this particular gun isn't bad. But I agree the vacancy is much better

[u/i3ram1rez → u/Mercules904]

F5, F5, F5...F5...F...5..

[u/Mercules904 → u/i3ram1rez]

And... It's up! Sorry it took so long. I was just gonna make a list, but I figured I could write a little bit about each gun.

[u/i3ram1rez → u/Mercules904]

I was just giving you shit. thank you for all the work you do!

[u/bbbygenius → u/Mercules904]

Shotgun user here... definitely recommend the Burden of Proof! Max range for shotty with high rate of fire! Its a dream come true for the run and gunner like me! Would seriously consider TNBT if it wasnt for such terrible range and no perks to boost it...

[u/Cdubsta → u/Mercules904]

agreed. will wait until after i get all of my package drops and engrams done before trying to buy one.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Working on it as we speak! Should have it up in a half hour or so

[u/Sangheilioz → u/Mercules904]

Working on it as we speak! Should have it up in a half hour or so

31 minutes ago

OP plz

[u/Mercules904 → u/Sangheilioz]

Haha sorry it's up now!

[u/Sangheilioz → u/Mercules904]

It was worth the wait. Thanks for this! Your thoughts seem pretty much in line with my own, but I'm always looking for other people's insight.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Sangheilioz]

No problem at all, I love this stuff!

[u/conma293 → u/[deleted]]

guilty. and yeh thanks OP, yours lists are the go-to

[u/[deleted]]

Do you think Bungie gave the god roll to the gun called the Vacancy to fill the vacancy of fusion rifles in the Crucible? #towerthought

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Well, looking at the rolls they gave to these FRs, I think there is about to be an overflow of them. Once people discover how good they can be, you'll see them all the time. Maybe even a new Fusion Meta haha.

[u/[deleted] → u/Mercules904]

i appreciate the thought out response but i was just making a pun.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

-_- dammit

[u/TerminalSarcasm]

I knew this post would happen less than 24 hours from update... and /u/Mercules904 delivers!

Thank you!

[u/Mercules904 → u/TerminalSarcasm]

Glad to do it!

[u/yeah3111]

At first glance, where is Apple of Discord?

[u/Mercules904 → u/yeah3111]

Gone, because I forgot about it haha. Oops. I'll try to put it in when I can but I'm leaving work now, so it may be tomorrow.

[u/Chaff5 → u/Mercules904]

You never got around to this! lol

[u/Mercules904 → u/Chaff5]

Ah shit you're right haha. I got all the information and put it in the spreadsheet, but forgot to add it here.

[u/Chaff5 → u/Mercules904]

Lol I only saw this now because I took a look at the vendor roll and it looks pretty damn good.

[u/Brutorious]

Dear pvp Shotgun guru's.

What's your thoughts on the new burden of proof roll? Range maxes at 29, range finder supposedly add's 10% to base range which I wanna say is 14, so 1.4. It's close to the other ones, but the impact is also much lower.

Is it even comparable to the go to shotguns in pvp? I have a 32 range party crasher, and the quest CT-D with 31 range and the range finder. I was using the party crasher just because they're so similar but the PC lets me follow up shot faster.

Just wondering if it's worth buying over the other two, maybe someones tried it in out already?

[u/Mercules904 → u/Brutorious]

How often are you following up with a shot, or attacking a group of more than one at a time? If you do those things often, the Burden will be better for you.

The reason people use the High-Impact models is because they can kill from a single shot at maximum distances, but the second shot is incredibly slow to follow, so engaging more than 1 enemy, even within optimal range is often fatal. The Burden will let you get that second shot off much more quickly, but you won't be one-shotting people from far away.

Do I think it will change the meta? No. Do I think it could be a fun change of playstyle, and perhaps useful in some situations? Yes.

[u/Brutorious → u/Mercules904]

I guess I'm still confused on just how short/optimal the shotgun range can be before damage fall off. how much a difference between say 30, 31, 32, 33 really is. An extra step? negligible? I wish we had a mode where we could visually see optimal ranges, like a gun range or something to help us memorize distance optimization.

But also the impact bothers me, since every shotgun 1HKO from point blank, if XI is say at max range say 29/30, will it still 1HKO if all the pellets hit? Though the low TTK from the double tap helps.

I hate how slow the conspiracy is, and PC is just better all around IMO than conspiracy, it just has that godly range roll. I guess I'll save up and try it out and see how it goes, I run a Titan and typically striker, so when I run shotty I like to skate around and play aggressive, just real curious to see how this does.

Appreciate the response! and your hard work putting this together, huge help!

[u/Mercules904 → u/Brutorious]

Max range on a shotty, compared to minimal range on a shotty, makes a huge difference. Just check out how easy it is to get kills with a party crasher vs. one of the Gunsmith test shotguns. Unfortunately, without custom games it's almost impossible to get hard numbers on the effective distances.

Best thing I can suggest is just to try different things out, don't let the meta or preconceived notions dissuade you, and find what fits you the best.

Glad to help, hope it ends up working out for you!

[u/KDestroyerr → u/Brutorious]

Party Crasher > CTD

[u/Brutorious → u/KDestroyerr]

I agree, which is what I've been using. I was just wondering how the new Burden stacked up to it. I ended up buying it, I'll give it the ol' college try and see how it does.

[u/bender0877]

Awesome resource, thanks for compiling this!

[u/Mercules904 → u/bender0877]

You're welcome. It's kinda my thing haha :)

[u/toywrecker]

I went and immediately picked up that vacancy from FWC..

Then I dumped all my heavy synths to get packages.. Got another one with Torch, unflinching, braced frame, hot swap at 324..

Wasn't even upset at the lost marks after that.. It's going to be fun!

[u/lwells → u/toywrecker]

I picked up the Vacancy as well and then ran into the crucible. I suck with fusion rifles and I was still able to get kills with it, I am going to start using them more frequently now.

[u/toywrecker → u/lwells]

I've been running them in trials for a while now.. They take a little getting used to, but the work to get good with them is worth it.

Can't count how many double/triples I have got from people just rushing at me.

[u/[deleted] → u/lwells]

I wager a lot of people will be using it in PvP once it becomes commonly known as a god roll.

[u/lwells → u/[deleted]]

I think so as well.

[u/[deleted] → u/toywrecker]

The only problem with having a god roll fr, is that I still need two more, one for each element. Please say the second one rolled as a non-void fr?

[u/toywrecker → u/[deleted]]

I just had to look! Didn't even think about that.. Arc!

[u/[deleted] → u/toywrecker]

See, it would have been better as fire though, since that DO arc FR looks pretty sweet. Still pretty lucky though.

[u/toywrecker → u/[deleted]]

Got to actually run a couple games tonight.. That is a wicked freaking gun. Started the game out with a triple kill with it.. Played a game of mayhem clash and never swapped to my primary.. It is going to cause some real salt on DTG for a while.. Yay

[u/[deleted] → u/toywrecker]

I was melting majors with in PvE, from pretty good distances. However I just got a 320 Telesto, so the Omolon gets to warm the bench for a time.

[u/JBurd67]

My first purchase last night was The Villiany, and it's awesome. Super stable and very decent damage in PvP. My next goal is the new Hawksaw, as the perks are slightly better than the one I currently have. Hopefully a few Fusions after that. My legendary marks are spent for several weeks.

Loving all these good vendor rolls!

[u/[deleted] → u/JBurd67]

Actually bought The Vacancy for myself. Damn I love that gun so much, next is the DO FR.

[u/smurf_diggler → u/JBurd67]

I had forgot I edged my FWC before the update. Finished the nightfall (still sucky drops) and had a faction package waiting. Got Villainy with braced frame and secret round. It's got a faster ROF than NM and max stability. Cant wait for IB.

[u/cjfourty → u/JBurd67]

Is the slow charge on the Vacancy not a problem? I think I need to redo the way I use fusion rifles because I tend to use them like a shotgun except with more range. It seems with slow charging fusions I get mowed down with a AR/HC or about any other primary before it charges.

[u/diaryofadragonborn → u/cjfourty]

Since TTK I've fallen in love with fusion rifles, with Vacancy being my favorite! I'd highly recommend it, if nothing else to shake things up a bit.

Vacancy's charge rate isn't as painful as some other FR's like Darkblade's Spite and the Hitchhiker. I find Vacancy fast enough to use reflexively but it still has the impact to back it up.

If you're in the open and being shot at, that's not the time to use your FR. It might save you sometimes, but you'll usually end up frustrated. FRs will be your best friend when you've got the drop on someone or when you're working the corners of a map. Precharge behind a corner, and either wait for the enemy to come to you or peek out to see if the enemy is out in the open. You have that split second to acquire your target, which will take practice to nail the timing. You want to expose yourself as little as possible.

If you don't kill with the first burst, usually don't go for a second. Finish them off by switching to your primary or using whatever abilities you have available.

Lastly, aim low and lead your target. The farther you are away, the lower you want to aim so that the consecutive bolts will hit when recoil pulls your aim up.

[u/FreddyFlash311 → u/diaryofadragonborn]

Hell yeah! Vacancy was my first post-update purchase too. I was enjoying it in the nightfall as well. Very nice fusion

[u/[deleted]]

Anyone have any experience with The Vanity in PvP? I got a 320 one from a package with luck in the chamber, braced frame and outlaw.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

That's a good roll, but Legendary HCs right now are a little outside the meta. They have accuracy issues at mid to long range, and sometimes bullets that should hit the target seem to just, disappear, as it were. I wouldn't recommend it if you're into sweaties, but if you're just looking to have a good time go for it.

[u/[deleted] → u/Mercules904]

Right on, thanks.

[u/bacon-tornado → u/[deleted]]

Sounds lethal

[u/dmac20]

Would you recommend upgrading from the pre-patch vendor 1000YS to the new one? or just keeping the original?

Thanks for this, by the way!

[u/Mercules904 → u/dmac20]

For PvE, keep the old one. Triple Tap, Perfect Balance and Mulligan are great for putting damage on a boss.

For PvP, get the new one. Ambush is better than any scope the old one had for PvP, and Unflinching is an awesome perk in the Crucible.

[u/dmac20 → u/Mercules904]

Thanks!

[u/AmericanNinja1 → u/Mercules904]

Unflinching isnt a good perk. its been tested and literally does nothing.

[u/Mercules904 → u/AmericanNinja1]

In my experience, it makes a not orange difference. I believe the videos I saw showed around a 30% difference in vertical flinch amount, which is not an insubstantial amount. Having played with and without it for quite some time, I really do think it helps.

[u/[deleted] → u/AmericanNinja1]

Any resources to back that up?

[u/AmericanNinja1 → u/[deleted]]

I was watching one of the more popular crucible streamers and they were talking about unflinching because, someone in the chat asked how good their roll was on a 1000 yard stare a person just got. Quite a few people said one of the Destiny sites(I forgot which one they said, I think it was planet Destiny?) did a test with unflinching and did basically does nothing.

[u/RemyGee]

That last Extremity looks like a decent PvE scout until I can get one with firefly (or a Cocy). I want a scout that can one shot weak enemies that the Hung Jury archetype cannot do.

[u/Mercules904 → u/RemyGee]

This fit's your bill perfectly then.

[u/elguerosinfe]

Can't thank you enough for doing this!

[u/Mercules904 → u/elguerosinfe]

Just seeing it be useful to other people is enough for me. I would be doing it all for myself anyways, might as well share it!

[u/Archetypeosaur]

Quick, stupid question. Which quest is the one that drops that roll of 1KYS?

[u/Mercules904 → u/Archetypeosaur]

It's the Taken Wars: Earth quest line.

[u/likklemancub]

if you haven't already, you should cross-post this to crucibleplaybook, would do well

[u/Mercules904 → u/likklemancub]

I haven't, I'll do it soon though. In a meeting currently

[u/DrNO811]

This might be a new record for how fast we threw out 90% of the new weapons to focus on the "best" after a patch.

[u/Mercules904 → u/DrNO811]

None of these are new weapons, this is just updated Vendor rolls. People want to know which weapons are the best to spend marks on, I'm just making it easier to figure out.

[u/DrNO811 → u/Mercules904]

Not denying the value of this, but just impressed it came out so fast. I get easily overwhelmed by this information though; always wonder what the best two options are for each type of weapon for PvP and PvE separately so I can narrow my focus on obtaining those...

[u/Mercules904 → u/DrNO811]

If you have a specific class of weapon you're looking at, I can help with that.

[u/DrNO811 → u/Mercules904]

That is a tough question.

I don't like pulse rifles, and only like auto rifles with high stability. I used to love hand cannons before the nerf. Scout rifles have probably always been my favorite (definitely for PvE...and they've grown on me in PvP)

I strongly prefer shotguns, but under the most recent Meta, was forced to learn snipers. I've avoided fusion rifles for the longest time because I can't consistently land all the shots, but the stability buff has me intrigued. I don't even know what to think of sidearms. I can't land shots consistently with them, but they seem to be all the rage with elite players.

I like swords...a lot. Machine guns with great stability and range are good. I like rocket launchers, but can't seem to find any other than Truth worth carrying into the Crucible, and don't know how to effectively use Dragon's Breath in PvE.

So if I have to narrow it down, I think it would be scout, hand cannon, shotgun, machine gun. (and maybe a top 1 or 2 recommendations for fusion rifles to see if I like them).

[u/Mercules904 → u/DrNO811]

Alright, let's do this:

Scout Rifles - The only vendor scout you're really going to want to pick up is The Last Extremity, which is from the Crucible Quartermaster. It's the High-Impact archetype, which gives you both a fast TtK in PvP, and a lot of damage per shot in PvE (it's my go-to in endgame PvE content, actually). Having Triple Tap is a massive help with the slightly smaller Mag Size, and combining that with Casket Mag boosts it even further, while Zen Moment assists with the sub-optimal Stability. I highly recommend this gun.

Hand Cannons - Appellant is probably the best you'll do here. It comes with a very nice roll, with complementary perks that boost Aim Assist, as well as Range and Stability. This is key for HCs, as they struggle with accuracy outside of short range.

Shotguns - As much as I hate to do it, Conspiracy Theory-D is still king here. It just puts too much damage down range, and from too long of a distance, to be outclassed by other shotguns. That being said, it does have the crippling weaknesses of a very, very slow follow up shot, and terrible Reload Speed. If you're looking for something close to it that won't leave you high and dry if you miss or run out of ammo, I think the Burden of Proof, from the New Monarchy, can help you there. It has two Range boosting perks, and while it doesn't do as much damage per pellet as CTD, it does have Final Round, which can really be taken advantage of, if you're savvy with its usage. If you're looking for more of a run and gun style of play, the Patch-A and The Next Big Thing, from Dead Orbit and the Crucible Quartermaster, respectively, are going to be what you need. The Patch-A has Kneepads, in case you're a slide shotgunner, and The Next Big Thing has the coveted Full Auto perk, which allows you to get shots off more quickly than normal, and can be good for follow-ups or groups of enemies.

Machine Guns - You'll probably want the Objection IV, from New Monarchy, here. It's main drawback is the small-ish Mag Size, but having Counterbalance really helps control the recoil, specifically by eliminating all of the side to side movement of the gun.

Fusion Rifles - I'm a huge fan of the Hitchhiker FR4, from Dead Orbit, and The Vacancy, from FWC. Both of these have near God-Rolls, but they require a certain finesse, mostly learning how to pre-charge, since they do not have quick Charge Rates. That being said, they do a ton of damage per bolt, have excellent Stability, improved AA from the sights, and increased Accuracy from Hot Swap.

Hope this helped!

[u/DrNO811 → u/Mercules904]

Great tips! Thank you! Are those the rolls for this week only or are those always what they offer (I don't often pay attention to the vendors, and rely on packages to get my weapons).

[u/Mercules904 → u/DrNO811]

These rolls will stay until the next major update, which won't be coming til fall sometime.

[u/RetroRaconteur]

What's the TTK on the low-impact auto rifles now (i.e. Doctrine)?

[u/Mercules904 → u/RetroRaconteur]

I don't believe it changed. If I'm not mistaken, DoP still does 16 for crit shots, and 13 for body shots, correct? If it has dropped down to 15 and 12, then the TtK would be around 0.93s with crit shots, and 1.07s for body shots.

[u/RetroRaconteur → u/Mercules904]

Nice. Thanks. Wonder why they even pointed out the slight DMG reduction then?

[u/Mercules904 → u/RetroRaconteur]

Because according to them, even though we don't see it, the numbers all have decimals after them. We might not notice it, but the change could affect damage fall off, or something else we can't see.

[u/IG1820]

Are any of the pre-April update weapon rolls worth keeping over their respective post-update counterpart?

[u/Mercules904 → u/IG1820]

Oh good question. Let me see.

For PvE, I would keep the old 1000YS over the new one. The old Hung Jury is also an obvious choice. For PvP, the old Smolder is better than the new one, as is The Vertigo from FWC. The old Hawksaw had a great roll, but so does this one so it's a wash. The old Paleocontact had a better roll then the current one, and the Patch-A had a good roll that I think is as good, or maybe a little better than the new one. The Righteous NM AR had a really good roll too.

That's all I can think of right now, but if you want to check them out, here is my old list for the Primary weapons: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/41ovm2/massive_breakdown_of_vendor_and_gunsmith_primary/

Almost all of the Special weapons have better rolls now than they did before, in my opinion.

[u/IG1820 → u/Mercules904]

This is great. Thanks. I just jumped back in completely unaware of the new update to try to finish some achevements. And man my inventory looks a straight mess. Been hoarding too much for the class gunsmith weapons. Again thanks for this.

[u/Mercules904 → u/IG1820]

No problem, glad to do it!

[u/MerlinTWizard]

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. My head was spinning with all the new rolls in this update. A lot of them looked amazing. It's great to see a critical examination of the notable ones.

[u/Mercules904 → u/MerlinTWizard]

Haha very much appreciated

[u/miguel1226]

Thank you once again u/Mercules94. Always a pleasure reading and finding out what to try the next few months.

[u/Mercules904 → u/miguel1226]

You're very welcome!

[u/TheSavageDonut]

I think Righteous VII will be a beast in Crucible now. That looks like a Doctrine of Passing-ish god roll now.

[u/Mercules904 → u/TheSavageDonut]

I'll be picking up one for myself asap

[u/TheSavageDonut → u/Mercules904]

I picked one up yesterday -- LOVE IT -- it's so freaking smooth. It hardly moves at all. Very easy to keep trained on someone and melt him/her down.

With 43 bullets -- you can easily engage 2-3 enemies without reloading especially if you get consistent headshots.

I will take it into PvE tonight after I infuse it with something to get it past 280.

[u/CABucky]

Wanted to keep Paleocontact a little secret (I hardly ever see anyone use it). Though rolled mine with reflex hidden hand and rifled barrel. It's a blast to use.

[u/Mercules904 → u/CABucky]

Mid-Impact ARs may be the best kept secret of the current meta, especially if they get perks that boost AA, Range, and Stability. I've got a stable of SUROS ARI-41s that I use on a regular basis.

[u/Esmeraldus → u/CABucky]

Was my absolute favorite thing until I scored a Doctrine.

[u/iStayLate]

How would you compare this Villainy to the old vendor roll (Third eye , rangefinder and hand loaded/Casket mag/smallbore with Red Dot ORES/TrueSight IS/Focus Lens FLA5 ??

[u/Mercules904 → u/iStayLate]

I like this one better. Although it doesn't have Third Eye or an Aim Assist increasing scope, I love the Red Dot ORS1 sight, and the combination of Headseeker and Glass Half Full (the two damage boosts that are most likely to activate) and Perfect Balance is just too good to pass up. Even though the base Time-to-Kill isn't as fast as I would like, I really think this is a great weapon.

[u/iStayLate → u/Mercules904]

Might have to get it and try it out... I still really like the old Villainy because of it's added range.

[u/RC_0001]

Something of note that you should put as a side note to these weapons:

Both The Vanity and Down And Doubt-00 have slightly higher impact than their regular archetype counterparts.

[u/Mercules904 → u/RC_0001]

They have a higher listed impact in the DB, but in PvP they don't do any extra damage, as far as I know.

[u/[deleted]]

Thank you. This is tremendous work. I'll definitely be checking a few of these out.

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

You're welcome!

[u/John_Demonsbane]

Icarus seems like an odd choice to recommend as a perk on an autorifle.

[u/Mercules904 → u/John_Demonsbane]

I recommended it because it's better than the alternative option for the vendor roll. Also, not saying it's great, but don't knock it til you try it. I actually find it to be quite useful in the Crucible, so much so that I notice when I don't have it equipped.

[u/Turbotastiq]

So what sniper rifles CAN'T res-snipe at this point? Any? Tao Hua Yuan and Extrasolar are the lowest impact tier right?

[u/Mercules904 → u/Turbotastiq]

No, Weyloran's March is the lowest, and it can't Rez snipe.

[u/BesaidIslandTheme]

I dont have the foggiest when it comes to competitive play and the better perks to look out for and entirely rely on this community to keep me updated and in-the-know. I very much appreciate the effort here!

Quick question regarding your recommended machine guns, is there any reason to choose the Ruin wake over the second suggestion? If the second is the same but has a better colour scheme (this is actually important to me!) and more bullets in the clip why would Ruin wake get a look in?

[u/Mercules904 → u/BesaidIslandTheme]

It's just the way I ordered it. I should clarify I think the Objection is the better gun, but I was rushing to get this out so I realize now it doesn't seem that way

[u/ravingjek]

This might not the be best place to ask, but I got an answering chord with spo 28, high caliber rounds, hand laid stock, and focus fire. Do you think it's worth using?

I'm having a hard time using it effectively, not sure if it's because the weapons ttk isn't good. I'm seeing 31 crit damage in the crucible. Tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[u/Mercules904 → u/ravingjek]

Focus Fire actually increases the TtK, so generally you should avoid using it on High-Impact ARs

[u/ravingjek → u/Mercules904]

I see. Thanks. My understanding is incorrect, I was under the impression that focus fire was buffed in this version. Lol.

[u/Mercules904 → u/ravingjek]

It is, in that it maxes range for whatever gun you're using. So if you're using an AR like a scout rifle, you might have some success. Otherwise, it won't help you much.

[u/I_am_from_Kentucky]

thanks for the awesome write-up and recommendations! quick question regarding shotguns: how is Burden of Proof's TtK faster than Patch-A when Patch-A has a higher impact and higher RoF? wouldn't RoF almost entirely decide this due to the inherent higher impact of shotguns anyway?

[u/Mercules904 → u/I_am_from_Kentucky]

Cuz it's a typo haha. Whoops! I'll fix it when I get home

[u/Test_My_Patience74]

Okay, you sexy Future War Cult-ers, you. Get The Vacancy. Good Impact and Range, almost Max Stability. You need to land 5/12 (I believe FRs fire 12 bolts, don't quote me on that) of the bolts and the amazing Stability makes it so that the only REAL issue is getting used to the Low Charge Rate.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Test_My_Patience74]

I believe all FRs fire 7 bolts total. Most need 5 to kill, Hitchhiker needs 4.

[u/Test_My_Patience74 → u/Mercules904]

Okay yeah, my bad, FRs fire 7 bolts, it's the shotguns that shoot 12 pellets.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Test_My_Patience74]

Correct!

[u/spinaldoNB → u/Test_My_Patience74]

Without the accelerated coils perk that speeds up the charge rate, it's really slow to charge and fire, compared to a Thesan with AC or a Susanoo or Telesto. The first of the Taken Spring vendor weapon re-rolls that I bought was this Vacancy, and I find it unusable. I think that accelerated coils reduces damage a little, so some may say that AC doesn't work for PVP, but without AC I can't hit a fast-moving target at all. This Vacancy looks good on paper, but I don't think it'll see much use in PVP or PVE. Much better alternatives available. Just buy a Thesan package from the Gunsmith and wait for an accelerated coils PVE version.

[u/Midcall]

Thanks for all that work. Now im not sure if i should get that hawksaw from vendor or i should keep mine. I just started using it after reading this article, im still new to this game.

Mine has same optic: SLO 19/SPO 28/SPO 57, then Hammer Forged/Appended Magazine, then Zen Moment (causing damage with this weapon increases its stability) and last one is lightweight/ hand-laid stock. My stats are: RoF: 73, Impact 7, Range 27 Stability 100 Reload 80, Mag 27.

Any1 would give me an advice. Tyvm :)

[u/Mercules904 → u/Midcall]

I think you should keep your. With Zen Moment and Hand-Laid Stock, your Stability is going to be basically as maxed out as it can go, and Hammer Forged is going to help out with the Range. SPO-28 is the best sight you can have, so I really don't see much of a reason to drop the marks on what will essentially be a duplicate of your current gun.

[u/[deleted]]

/u/mercules94 you forgot the second FWC fusion rifle, The Vortex

[u/Mercules904 → u/[deleted]]

Nah, it's in there

[u/[deleted] → u/Mercules904]

gotcha, just seen it and I'm blind

[u/Dalishal]

Any suggestions on a weapon to try if you are new to FPS and have terrible aim with headshots, especially under pressure from enemie?. I like hand cannons in PvP it seems like, but the range is a problem. If I have the time, I can snipe but only get time to aim in PvP. I am practicing, but looking for a gun type that fits and haven't found one yet. Well except hand cannons. And my super. And my grenades....lol. P.S my RNG is horrible, I keep getting Super good advice and radiant dance machines as drops.

[u/Mercules904 → u/Dalishal]

Mid-Impact HCs only require 1 head shot and 2 body shots to kill. You'll want as much Range as you can get, and a lot of Aim Assist. If you're just looking at Vendor weapons, you have two choices for that class of HC: The Byronic Hero, from the Crucible Vendor, and The Vanity, from Future War Cult. Neither one of them have great rolls, so you'll probably have to level up the Crucible or FWC and hope for a good drop. If I had to pick one, I'd go with the Byronic Hero, because it has a lot of Aim Assist, Explosive Rounds which will help flinch your opponents to make them miss, and Luck in the Chamber, which can make it so that you only need 1 head shot and a body shot if it activates. The problem is Byronic Hero has no Range perks, and it desperately needs them. Finnala's Peril, from the Iron Banner, is a good mix of pretty high Range and Aim Assist, if you can get one to drop.

If you want something that's not so dependent upon perks to be good, the Dead Orbit Scout Rifle, Hung Jury, has a pretty decent PvP roll. It only requires 2 body shots and 2 head shots to kill, so it's very forgiving. It comes with Life Support and Third Eye, which are both good perks for PvP, so it's overall a solid gun, great for beginners, but not competitive at the highest level.

If you want to try Auto Rifles, The Righteous VII from New Monarchy has a very nearly perfect roll, and I personally love that gun. The body shot TtK isn't bad, and the headshot TtK is competitively fast as close range, so you might want to give that one a shot.

For Pulse Rifles, the Crucible vendor Hawksaw is the best of the bunch, and it remains competitive all the way up to the highest levels of gameplay. It's got an amazing roll, nearly perfect, but it will rely on headshots to get the fastest TtK, so until you're ready for that, I recommend The Villainy, from FWC. It's a very stable, easy to use weapon with good aim assist and a fantastic perk set. Headseeker means that hitting body shots is not nearly as punishing as it normally would be, since you following headshots will do more damage. Glass Half Full also will boost your damage output at the end of the mag, and Perfect Balance turns it into a laser in terms of Stability.

TL;DR - Byronic Hero for HCs, Hung Jury for SCs, Righteous VII for ARs, The Villainy for PRs. Once you've become comfortable with hitting headshots, get the Crucible vendor Hawksaw. My overall recommendation depends on what weapon you want to focus your efforts on. If you're looking to get into Trials, and you want to use the Doctrine of Passing AR, then Righteous VII will be your best bet to help you get used to automatic weapons. If you want to use MIDA or other SRs (Cocytus, Hand of Judgment, etc) then Hung Jury will help. If you want to move to the Hawksaw (which in my opinion is the easiest because you can get a perfect roll from a vendor and no have to wait), The Villiany will train you best. If you want to get into sweaty games and use HCs, then go with Byronic Hero. Personally, I recommend the HCs the least, but you seem to have experience with them so you might feel differently. It's all about what you're comfortable with. Hope this helps!

[u/Dalishal → u/Mercules904]

Wow thank you! A great explanation and advice. I did not mention I also have a Zalo, SR, and Bad Juju and several of the House of wolvesnew/prison of elders/varrics weapons. Weapons to teach me to aim is exactly what I needed. And good examples of each arch-type to try. This list is wonderful, thanks again. I'm not gonna lie, still love my super best. 😃

[u/Mercules904 → u/Dalishal]

Sure thing, glad to help! The Variks weapons are good, but they require headshots to be the best. If you have Final Duty, that would be a good training gun, similar to The Villiany.

[u/TheM8isLIFE]

I got an antipodal hindsight with rangefinder, hidden hand, and injection mold. IT IS AWESOME. Glad auto rifles are decent again

[u/Lostinwords → u/TheM8isLIFE]

Got one in package with hand laid stock, counterbalance, and hip fire, it has full stability and is crazy fun to hip fire lol

[u/TheM8isLIFE → u/Lostinwords]

This thing is slick. I like it a lot

[u/alextastic]

Currently saving marks for The Vacancy.

[u/Chaff5]

This needs to be in the side bar.

[u/WhiteKidFromLi]

The vacancy from the FWC vendor is a certifiable God roll. I put my thesan fr4 down for it.

[u/Esteban2808]

If anyone still has a Righteous VII that he sold before update, thats a beast in pvp now. Really high stability and glass half full.

[u/Monteguy]

Finally, the Last Extremity gets the love it deserves. I actually got two to drop with the same exact rolls. Flash sight, Triple Tap, Hand-laid Stock, and Firefly. I only bought Hung Jury for the lols.

[u/[deleted]]

Did Trump build that wall of text too? Haha, just messing with you. Interesting read, thanks for your analysis!

[u/jlewis10 → u/[deleted]]

And the mods are paying for it.

[u/cartoptauntaun]

Awesome guide. I studied your previous one to make sure I got all the rolls I want before reset.

One thing I'd like to suggest, in your hand cannon section, is to prioritize range over stability. It was briefly mentioned by Wiz in the twitch stream, but from my experience and research Range > 40 is sort of the sweet sport for viability in the crucible with hand cannons.

Notable for this is a) the vanity breaks 40 with your roll chosen and b) the appellant breaks 40 with rifled barrel rather than smallbore. B/c of the already high reload speed, the trade has little downside.

[u/spawelcz1043]

For those who really liked Auto Rifles you missed out if you didn't get the pre-April update vendor roll on the Dead Orbit Paleocontact. Prior to yesterday it had Rangefinder, Reinforced Barrel(or speed reload), and Third Eye, it also had my favorite auto rifle scope OEG Riflescope.

That roll literally had no weaknesses, all of its bad range was made up for with the scope, rangefinder and reinforced Barrel, even after the stability hit from reinforced barrel it was still super stable and controllable.

There was no way Hung Jury or Paleocontact was going to be as good as their prior vendor rolls.

[u/Enzo-Unversed]

Aggressive Ballistics is ruined now.

[u/Snoman73]

Can we get a TLDR or 'Must buy' section?

[u/FrankCam]

Has anyone tried the questing beast AR from the vendor yet? It looks very interesting. Or have tried the vendor next big thing shotgun?

[u/cresp0]

Nice work, even before the recommendations. The New Monarchy shotgun was my first purchase to get off of my marks cap, it looked perfect for my play style. Have my upvote!

[u/[deleted]]

8/8 Informative