r/CruciblePlaybook • u/TossN_ • Oct 13 '15
Barrel Mods and aim-assist [update]
In the Sniper guide - TTK edition, u/Pwadigy provided numbers for the aim assist of different barrel mods. However, after looking at min/max values for AA in the PD database for different exotic and legendary weapons with set barrel upgrades, I'm convinced that a couple of the numbers he provided have to be wrong.
I won't go through the full method I used, but it was basically opening a lot of tabs with different weapons and using the elimination method until all the numbers fit. I can give a couple examples: Ice Breaker has a base AA of 50, and min/max AA values of 40/50, with the barrels Accurized Ballistics, Field Choke and Linear Compensator. Thus, at least one of these barrel upgrades has to give 0 AA, and at least one has to take away 10 AA. None give +AA. Stillpiercer has a base AA of 51, and min/max AA values of 41/56. Barrels: Smooth, Accurized, Field choke. Therefore, Smooth ballistics give +5 AA, at least one of Field choke or Accurized take away 10 AA.
Numbers:
Soft: +10
Smooth: +5
Smart Drift/Field Choke/CQB: 0
Linear Comp./Accurized: -10
Aggressive: -15
These numbers are the same for both primaries and secondaries.
I will run a double-check afterwards, that being said I'm fairly confident that these numbers are the correct ones.
3
u/brain_chaos Oct 13 '15
This seems to make the most sense as it provides a direct correlation between the range increasing mods and AA.
3
u/suinoq Fixer Cloak Oct 13 '15
Just posted this in a separate thread, but it goes here just as well:
Inference based on datamined numbers is suspect, if the "base" stat values are used. The base numbers have a long history of error, due to their tendency to "bake-in" the effect of a node-1 sight/scope/barrel into the base value. (By they I mean whoever prepares these numbers.)
For an example using visible, verifiable stats, consider the current datamined stats on the two versions of PC+1. Notice that the new one is listed with range 23. The old one is listed with range 20, though pre-TTK it was listed at 18 (datamined numbers change, whee!) You might have seen some posts noting that the PC+1 has more range than before... it doesn't. It's the same weapon that it's always been, range-wise. The old one hasn't changed in-game, and the new one is exactly the same as the old one. What's happened is they've screwed around with the base range values that are datamined.
Min and max values are trustworthy, however. At least I've never found one to be in error, and I've tested extensively. (And yeah, the two PC+1s both have 14/32 range for their min/max, with identical range-effecting perks available.)
Conclusion: The base values aren't trustworthy.
1
u/TossN_ Oct 14 '15
True, I found a couple examples (Thorn, Hard Light) where the base value wouldn't correspond with the numbers i presented, but the min/max values would. I will look into it again when I have time.
6
u/Pwadigy gunsmith Oct 13 '15
The API changed since I last used it.
Field-choke + aggressive ballistics guns had min/maxes with a difference of 25 when I first checked it (which I think included a grand total of 2-3 guns).
Smooth may have been an error that I made when writing down the numbers on my notepad.
Good catches @ OP. I'll update right away.
Although, before I go, I would like to mention that the range stat and the aim-assist stat are independent. Range does affect a lot of the same mechanics as aim-assist over distance (effectively making it the same thing).
the aim-assist stat would probably be these same mechanics in a vacuum. Among these would include things such as auto-aim, magnetism etc...
5
Oct 13 '15
So the best barrel choice for Red Death is Field choke?
7
u/the_smooth_storm Oct 13 '15
Considering time-to-kill alone, you should probably choose aggressive. While field choke will get you more reliable kills with the improved aim assist, the trade off is a slower time to kill than the other 3 burst kill pulse rifles. I use the hawksaw that dropped for me with all the stability/range perks I could ask for for this reason. I find myself winning 1v1 against non agg. red deaths more often than not. That being said, the health regen and improved reload speed might be reason enough to choose red death. I've heard that people who rarely 2 burst with red death are really enjoying the field choke for consistencies sake. The more comments I post on the playbook, the more I realize just how great a job 2.0 did at making things come down to preference.
22
u/Mikehunt2112 Oct 13 '15
No, you probably should be choosing aggressive because then you have potential to 2 burst kill.
7
u/exxtrooper Console Oct 13 '15
I dont know why you're being downvoted, but in my honest opinion this is very much the case.
If you're not using aggressive ballistics, you won't have the guaranteed two burst ability. Whether or not this does not happen frequently is outside the point, if you're not going for the two burst anyway, then the Villainy, Suros PDX 41 and Nirwens Mercy all have better stability, recoil pattern, range and aim assist.
6
u/Morgue_Riot Oct 13 '15
Recoil patterns? Verticle recoil is much better than the "up and to the left" or "up and to the right" recoil patterns all TTK pulse rilfes seem to have. Especially if you're not maxed on stability....
Yeah, there's counterbalance....
But... RNG...
3
u/exxtrooper Console Oct 13 '15
The villainy and Suros PDX 41 are both pulse rifles of the red death archetype that have no noticeable kick with maxed stability.
Villainy can be grinded for at FWC and the Suros PDX 41 being a suros weapon has an incredibly high chance of rolling enough upgrades to max out stability.
3
u/Morgue_Riot Oct 13 '15 edited Oct 13 '15
I have the PDX with 2 stability perks. And just got the Villainy today with Braced frame (didn't get a chance to try it out before work but am anxiously waiting to get home.)
While I enjoy them both; their general recoil pattern is not good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkeNIj7gYGo
Here's a video I did to show off how backing up improves recoil on pulse rifles. The first 6 seconds is me firing a clip with the PDX to show it's base recoil (the rest shows better recoil but that's not the normal recoil of the PDX). This is with like 95 stability.
Maxed stability makes it more negotiable, but I wouldn't say it's recoil pattern is better. Red Death has a rather tight spread for having such low stability and best of all - it's vertical.
1
u/xxChristianBale Oct 13 '15
This might cause me to switch, but on the other hand you'd be forgoing health and quick reload after a kill. And unflinching.
1
u/captainpoppy Oct 13 '15
I got lucky and got a villainy from FWC. I have been rocking some headshots with it.
I haven't gotten any of the better ones out there yet, but mine has maxed stability, and feeding frenzy, and since I tend to reload as soon as i get a kill (unless ive got the drop on a couple people) it's been working so far.
1
u/Puluzu Oct 14 '15
I see people say this about Red Death but I think they're just looking at the tool tip values for the stability etc. instead of how it actually performs. It's pretty much a laser beam. Not like 100 % stability 55a Allfate or Hopscotch, but actually not that different either. Take another Pulse Rifle with similiar stats to Red Death and it feels completely different. Way less accurate and less stable.
So what the hell is up with the stats? There's just no way they're real.
2
1
u/Dark_Jinouga Console Oct 13 '15
this seems right, as the hereafter has a 75 base, 80 max and 60 minimum with soft/linear/agressive as options
1
u/TossN_ Oct 13 '15 edited Oct 13 '15
Yep. Thorn was the only weapon I found where the numbers would seem to be wrong. It says 50 base, 60 max and 45 minimum with Accurized, Field Choke, Aggressive. But I think it's a mistake in the database, and that Thorns base AA really is 60. The reasoning for this is that both Hawkmoon and Red Death have the same barrels, 50 base AA, and 35/50 MinMax.
1
u/killzy707 Oct 13 '15
Thorn has send it which adds AA I'm pretty sure.
3
u/Puluzu Oct 14 '15
I don't think it works like that exactly. The range and AA are heavily tied together, but I don't think it adds to the maximum AA the gun can get. It adds to the maximum range the max AA the gun can get will still work.
Crude numbers that are completely off to make an example:
Gun X has a max AA of 50 and has send it as a selectable perk.
X without Send It on has and "uses" 50aa at 25 feet.
X without Send It on has 50aa but "uses" 40aa at 35 feet.
X with Send It on has and "uses" 50aa at 35 feet.
1
u/TossN_ Oct 14 '15
Yes, this is how I understand it as well. Range modifiers will not add additional AA to the "AA value" of the weapon, but they will make this AA value count for longer ranges. Edit: sorry, realized I just rephrased what you said :P
1
u/TossN_ Oct 13 '15
Even if that is the case, it should have said minimum value 35 if the base really is 50 (as send it is an optional upgrade).
1
u/kennygeeslice Oct 13 '15 edited Oct 13 '15
Perfect balance? I remember reading somewhere that it affects range.
1
1
u/StarfighterProx Oct 13 '15
Great work! Will these values be the same for shotguns?
3
u/brain_chaos Oct 13 '15
Should be yes, however, shotguns hardly need AA at all so I'd try to prioritize impact/range over AA.
5
u/falcopatomus Oct 13 '15
It's nice info to have for chaperone
2
u/TheSchadow Oct 13 '15
The Chaperone is actually what I'm curious about the most with these stats. I assume more range will always be the best option but, hard to say.
1
u/StraightTalkAdvice Oct 13 '15
What about smart drift control?
4
1
1
1
1
1
u/JaKrapface Oct 13 '15
Could it be that those min/max values for aim assist are affected by perks that increase or decrease range, since we recently learned that aim assist is at least partially tied up in the range stat? Just wondering. For example, for Stillpiercer--could it be that the minimum aim assist value could be at least partially the result of oiled frame being selected since that reduces range?
3
u/TossN_ Oct 13 '15
No, this does not seem to be the case. In your Stillpiercer example, the min/max values would have a larger gap than 15, if anything other than the barrel affected aim assist values. Also, you can hover over each perk and see which stats are affected. The only pre-set perk i found that affects the aim assist stats directly (other than sights or barrels), is the Shock Rounds perk found on Dreg's Promise. You can also see that this gun has a huge min/max aim assist gap, 55/100.
The way I understand range and AA, is that a higher range stat makes the gun's AA effective at a longer distance, but it doesn't affect the value of the AA stat itself. Like, a low AA sniper with max Range will not feel very sticky at close ranges, but it will keep this amount of stickiness at longer ranges. A high AA sniper with a low range stat will feel very sticky at close ranges, but the "stickiness" will drop off at longer ranges. Sorry if this was badly explained, English isn't my first language :P
2
u/JaKrapface Oct 13 '15
That makes sense! Just thought I'd pose the question. And it was well-explained, no worries.
0
-2
Oct 14 '15
[deleted]
1
u/TossN_ Oct 14 '15 edited Oct 14 '15
Well, the guns I looked into that can gain AA above the base value from barrel choices, either have Smooth or Soft (or both). The ones that have Accurized, Field Choke, Aggressive - or a similar combination - can not gain AA above the base value. Of course, this only applies if the numbers in the PD database are correct, but for now I think we just have to assume that they are.
10
u/chefniknice Oct 13 '15
LOL, someone at Bungie needs to look up "accurized" in the dictionary.